I'm calling it the Epidemic. (This is a rant, if you dont wanna hear it, don't click)

Honestly as a tank I see shit dps and healers all the time. Buffs go down, my hp is below the "exceptible" levels, healer is standing around doing nothing, dps is running 10 clicks ahead, and so on. But I keep it to myself. Why? Because we are fine, it isn't a raid and to be honest its a videogame and I'm trying to have fun.

Its not fun and not my job to bitch dummies out in faceroll content like a jerk, nor is it fun for me or them. The levels of content (dungeons, trials, raids, savage) are the filter. Last thing someone wants to hear is "advice". And there is no real reason to poke that nest if no one is asking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Claymore65

I totally agree that the Dark Knight is in the wrong here, but I will say "y dont u use darkside" isn't the best way to start any conversation,

---

The other player simply defend his bad play, that's the issue here. Also people ask because telling them how it works, would just be another reply like this: ''dont tell me how to play'' But again the community shields, protects those who are wrong, look at this forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit:

http://i.imgur.com/cOtwoMt.jpg

Isn't this community just great? Just imagine. In a few years, everyone will be so bad that dungeons take 8 hours to complete!

---

This is why I kind of hope they remove Darkside as an ability and just roll it into a trait to reduce ability bloat. There's far too many that just don't use it, so force it and the MP drain on them 100% of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bardaboo

You said all the genuine good players basically don't use DF and the ones that think they're good but aren't are the ones in dungeons giving advice

---

Case in point.

And instead of explaining you become insulting and aggressive. Showing everyone what type of DF player you are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

The other player simply defend his bad play, that's the issue here. Also people ask because telling them how it works, would just be another reply like this: ''dont tell me how to play'' But again the community shields, protects those who are wrong, look at this forum.

---

nah the issue is , that people just cant let something go , and still continue to post useless stuff :P

since we all know , that rage people will always find something to rage on ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

Honestly as a tank I see shit dps and healers all the time. Buffs go down, my hp is below the "exceptible" levels, healer is standing around doing nothing, dps is running 10 clicks ahead, and so on. But I keep it to myself. Why? Because we are fine, it isn't a raid and to be honest its a videogame and I'm trying to have fun.

---

This is me. In maybe 2 out of 3 DF groups, at least one of the other 3 folks is somewhere between totally n00b and pure awful. All I ever tell them is mechanics of the fight or some priority of the dungeon itself. Never comment on their skill, playstyle, etc. Just tips like "kills bees asap, stand behind pillar, get out of fires" etc. Like you said, it isn't a raid, it isn't a job, and let's just get through this and move along.

I've been playing this game for a while, and i've noticed that in this game, more than the others i've played, there are a large amount of players who are belligerently stupid, and they usually come with a friend who enables them.

I feel like it may have to do with the lack of parser support. When someone can see how bad they are doing for themselves, they can make the decision to change and improve on their own.

And people come in here and say "let people have their fun" and i really want to know what about willfully being bad at your job is fun?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

nah the issue is , that people just cant let something go , and still continue to post useless stuff :P
since we all know , that rage people will always find something to rage on ^^

---

I hope you did read the screenshot then on your own reply to me. I've seen you around on this forum a lot, which is cool, but please read the screenshot, then read what I said, then you read what you said to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

...Its not fun and not my job to bitch dummies out in faceroll content like a jerk, nor is it fun for me or them. The levels of content (dungeons, trials, raids, savage) are the filter. Last thing someone wants to hear is "advice". And there is no real reason to poke that nest if no one is asking.

---

This is my approach as well. I also follow a two-strike rule. Someone says/does something that pisses me off or the group wipes twice, I drop. I'm not going to waste time bullshitting around. As it is, the match making system in this game with its idiotic limitations are not worth my time anymore. I can find something else to do during the 30min penalty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bardaboo

And instead of explaining you become insulting and aggressive. Showing everyone what type of DF player you are.

---

:rolleyes:

It's quite simple. If you don't understand what I write when I use plain English, attempting to explain it to you using more plain English is nothing more than an exercise in futility. I said what I meant and you chose to read into it things that weren't there. That's pretty rude on your part to begin with, as you're demanding my attention and for me to take you seriously when you obviously didn't reciprocate. Further demanding I engage you conversationally along those lines is downright preposterous.

Even this post is not really for you, but rather is really aimed at anyone else who may be reading our exchange.

Okie dokie bud

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

I feel like it may have to do with the lack of parser support. When someone can see how bad they are doing for themselves, they can make the decision to change and improve on their own.

---

Nah. Not really.

My bf is a WoW player from day 1 and literally everyone uses parsers there. its like, the basic of the basic addons. And he averages 1.7m dps there while other ppl of the same class with same or better gear
average 500k. He moans about it every day. And thats during actual RAIDS, not DF stuff. But when the enablers are in your own fc...then theres only so much you can do.
The only difference is that there you can call people out on their BS, and here, you have to be careful about it.

But honestly, I felt that this game has better players overall than for example WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synrin

I would like to add all those tanks not using defensive cooldowns, Dark Knights being in Grit without Dark Side, people pulling without a reason, healers recasting protect in the middle of the fight (this happened to me today in DUN SCAITH, 3 times he did it for no reason). There will be players like that no matter the level. I was honestly surprised you hadn't come across any bad MNKs as there seems to be a surge of those due to Stormblood...

---

Just wanted to say that I cast protect if a person keeps dying and I want to help them by casting as many protection to keep this guy alive. Even in a middle of a fight like dun scaith. There has to be a reason why this healer would recast it unless that person was just a troll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faliandra

But honestly, I felt that this game has better players overall than for example WoW.

---

It does, for one huge reason - to progress the story and unlock content, levels and abilities...you have to do dungeon content. No choice. To even start Heavensward content, you had to do all 284 main scenario quests minimum, but probably did a decent amount of FATE, Leve and DF grinding to keep the levels consistent with the questlines. In WoW, just follow the exclamation points from zone to zone while soloing, and you'll ding max level inside 2-3 weeks, max. Then, do dailies for factions and buy (max - 2) tier raid gear, also can be done totally solo. Then wait for next xpac to mudflate inside the first zone's starter quests. You can stay just under bleeding edge in WoW and never join a party once. And for the most part, getting to one or two tiers below max raid gear for an xpac takes roughly 2 months from release, and can literally be done entirely solo.

FF14 is the only MMO that forces as much group content as it does. And yeah, the players in FF14 are the better for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

:rolleyes:

It's quite simple. If you don't understand what I write when I use plain English, attempting to explain it to you using more plain English is nothing more than an exercise in futility. I said what I meant and you chose to read into it things that weren't there. That's pretty rude on your part to begin with, as you're demanding my attention and for me to take you seriously when you obviously didn't reciprocate. Further demanding I engage you conversationally along those lines is downright preposterous.

Even this post is not really for you, but rather is really aimed at anyone else who may be reading our exchange.

---

I must be bad at English as well, because I interpreted your post the same way. Bad and Mediocre people give "advice" but good players don't. Good players don't give advice because they either don't care or stick with premades.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khaidal

I must be bad at English as well, because I interpreted your post the same way. Bad and Mediocre people give "advice" but good players don't. Good players don't give advice because they either don't care or stick with premades.

---

I find most people are extremely sloppy in their own speech and writings and apply the same sloppiness to how they interpret the words of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faliandra

Nah. Not really.

My bf is a WoW player from day 1 and literally everyone uses parsers there. its like, the basic of the basic addons. And he averages 1.7m dps there while other ppl of the same class with same or better gear
average 500k. He moans about it every day. And thats during actual RAIDS, not DF stuff. But when the enablers are in your own fc...then theres only so much you can do.
The only difference is that there you can call people out on their BS, and here, you have to be careful about it.

But honestly, I felt that this game has better players overall than for example WoW.

---

Yeah, uhm, nobody is going to average 1.7 million dps in wow currently. Even mythic raiders are only getting around ~1mil. That's burst DPS, max, or heavy cleave. I can burst up to 2mil easy, and hold it for a little bit (depending on the fight), but it sinks down to about 600k. People doing 500k average are doing pretty decent dps, that's like entry level dps for the heroic Nighthold. People who suck in wow don't get the best gear if they just grind long enough, you need a group who will take you, and you are expected to do well. Even in a guild, if you're doing half the required dps you are going to get a talking to, especially if you're failing dps checks.

So i'm calling BS on your whole post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nixxe

I find most people are extremely sloppy in their own speech and writings and apply the same sloppiness to how they interpret the words of others.

---

I guess we'll leave it at this then, since you have no interest in clarifying your stance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Averax

Yeah, uhm, nobody is going to average 1.7 million dps in wow currently. Even mythic raiders are only getting around ~1mil. That's burst DPS, max, or heavy cleave. I can burst up to 2mil easy, and hold it for a little bit (depending on the fight), but it sinks down to about 600k. People doing 500k average are doing pretty decent dps, that's like entry level dps for the heroic Nighthold. People who suck in wow don't get the best gear if they just grind long enough, you need a group who will take you, and you are expected to do well. Even in a guild, if you're doing half the required dps you are going to get a talking to, especially if you're failing dps checks.

So i'm calling BS on your whole post.

---

Such Anger. Much BS. Wow.

Way to completely miss the entire point of my post, gg.
I do not play WoW anymore, but I used to play it with him. And if I know 2 things, then its: (1) He was always way above most other people's dps despite NOT being the "flavor of the month"
and (2) that there are SPECIFIC times when you should be using CDs to burst. And if thats when hes doing that kind of damage while others are at barely 500k or less. Then how is that good?

Its really funny how youre calling my whole post BS over the word "average dps" which may or may not have been used the wrong way. Its not like he wrote a detailed essay about it to me.
Why are we even discussing this?

My friggin point was that parsers wont magically make bad players disappear? So hard to understand?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

In my personal experience 9 times out of 10 when phrases like those are used it's because those using them just want to get out of the instance as quickly as they can with a clear and without a headache causing confrontation. I always feel that the subtext is something like "Oh will you just shut up, leave them alone and let us finish this before I go insane..."

---

This doesn't excuse bad play. In fact, it's entirely counterintuitive. If they wanted to get out faster, then doing a proper rotation, DPSing as a healer and etc would accomplish that. None of this is context, it's simply bad players refusing to listen because they cannot be bothered. Per the quoted example, a Dark Knight not using Darkside by level 60 is lazy. It takes two seconds to read the tooltip yet they haven't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faliandra

My friggin point was that parsers wont magically make bad players disappear? So hard to understand?

---

It won't make them disappear, but it will make it much easier to spot them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

It won't make them disappear, but it will make it much easier to spot them.

---

Which is what I said in my previous post.
Do you even read stuff or just randomly chime in
To comment on stuff that has already been said?

I'm not against parsers. I'm just saying it won't do miracles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowAmethyst

READING THEIR TOOLTIPS

---

Agree 100%. There is no excuse to don't even look at what a skill does. It implies tooltip informations are correct, ofc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowAmethyst

READING GUIDES

---

Agree less. One of the things I like playing in a game is being able to figure out myself the mechanics. More I am good at it, more I feel progressing as a player. 1st world/server clear happens when guides still doesn't exists, and happens because the players that done the kill are skilled at figure out mechanics. if you don't even try do it, you'll never learn it. Guides are a good thing anyway, if I just don't want take too much time on doing something, or the content so old that all and everyone knows it by memory, them comes handy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Millen1

As for skills, there has been a massive drop in skill level. It as if many players just don't care anymore. The game never teaches players to learn a skill in the job quest and all you can hope for is that they read the tool tips.

---

the skill level drop happened because POTD, since it does not teach how to play your job at all, since anything in there dies very fast(especially when you have 99/99 in the gear), in especial, the melees and their positionals, since on POTD monsters do not have the positional ring

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Faliandra

Which is what I said in my previous post.
Do you even read stuff or just randomly chime in
To comment on stuff that has already been said?

I'm not against parsers. I'm just saying it won't do miracles.

---

I randomly chime in if the thought sparks. Nothing will change that.
That said and looking back on your post, I think the FFXIV community should be a little less "careful" when it comes to criticism. Why do we "have to" be careful about what we say? Are we that afraid of being kicked (whatever), reported (there's no offence to report), or potentially making someone feel bad for a minute? Criticism, if done right, helps in most cases. Yes, it will make someone feel bad for a bit, but if they don't want to 'feel bad' in future runs, then they'll try to do better... though that's if they're someone who actually does want to try and is not someone who thinks their sub is the holy grail and everyone else should feel honoured to be carrying them.

Now if someone is using "criticism" to insult someone, then it's not criticism. That's just being a jerk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xau

the skill level drop happened because POTD, since it does not teach how to play your job at all, since anything in there dies very fast(especially when you have 99/99 in the gear), in especial, the melees and their positionals, since on POTD monsters do not have the positional ring

---

Don't blame the tool, blame the person using it.
While PotD certainly doesn't let you master a job, it gives you a good general idea about what to do and how to play effectively.
It's just that most people do NOT pay attention to their tooltips. But that's not the fault of PotD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArrowAmethyst

...

I'm calling this rash of TERRIBLE players, "the epidemic". You would think by level 50 folks would have somewhat of a grasp on how to play their jobs, but this clearly isnt the case. Here are just a few of the atrocities we saw this weekend:

...

-Bard's post lv.52, not using 'Wanderer's Minuet' at all ever

...


(Feel free to flame me, just dont be surprised if I bite back. Im in a fiesty mood right now.)

---

Looks like the OP is part of "the epidemic", you do not start using Wanderer's Minuet at lvl 52 when you get it, you wait until you the abilities associated with it, before that it's a loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khaidal

I guess we'll leave it at this then, since you have no interest in clarifying your stance.

---

That you'd rather suggest I'm at fault and demand I do all the work rather than work to improve yourself is precisely why you are and will remain bad at reading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SilkaN

Don't blame the tool, blame the person using it.
While PotD certainly doesn't let you master a job, it gives you a good general idea about what to do and how to play effectively.
It's just that most people do NOT pay attention to their tooltips. But that's not the fault of PotD.

---

It really doesn't. There are no positional requirements at all, you don't even need a tank or healer, so it's not going to teach you how to play either effectively. PotD is not a good teaching tool. You can't put that entirely on people for "not reading their tooltips." Experience is much more significant than knowledge in determining skill, and the PotD experience is lacking.

"Post" means after?? So after lvl 52 at all ever. Meaning he's seen people after the skill became useful not using it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

Looks like the OP is part of "the epidemic", you do not start using Wanderer's Minuet at lvl 52 when you get it, you wait until you the abilities associated with it, before that it's a loss.

---

Correct. At the very least on level 56 you should have it implemented in your playing style and start training your future rotation with it enabled.
Though I give people the benefit of the doubt when certain pre-60 fights make WN unfeasable to perform well due to it's movement restriction, i.e. at Charibert in the Vault. Smart toggling it at that boss is the key to win.

My friend was just in a9s, where he got enrage with 15% echo, everyone had relic ilvl 275 and 270 ilvl in general. Nobody died either. I know he didn't come off as a nice guy but seriously a9's is a dummy strike fight and it concerns me people get enrage here.
http://i.imgur.com/0wuhxQp.png
Look, hes from moogle like me, he came in there to help, but it got enrage and boss spawned faust at 70!!!!!!!% please don't tell me something isn't wrong here. Also look at the guys reply ''elitist''. You don't even need a parser to see how bad that is...I love how some people here(wont say names) say this is fine and we just post stuff like this, because it's funny. It's not funny when peopel wanna do savage and barely knows how to play.
Edit: 2 deaths, mt and 1 dps, still... you shouldn't see enrage on a fight like a9s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

My friend was just in a9s, where he got enrage with 15% echo, everyone had relic ilvl 275 and 270 ilvl in general. Nobody died either. I know he didn't come off as a nice guy but seriously a9's is a dummy strike fight and it concerns me people get enrage here.
http://i.imgur.com/0wuhxQp.png
Look, hes from moogle like me, he came in there to help, but it got enrage and boss spawned faust at 70!!!!!!!% please don't tell me something isn't wrong here. Also look at the guys reply ''elitist''. You don't even need a parser to see how bad that is...I love how some people here(wont say names) say this is fine and we just post stuff like this, because it's funny. It's not funny when peopel wanna do savage and barely knows how to play.
Edit: 2 deaths, mt and 1 dps, still... you shouldn't see enrage on a fight like a9s.

---

OK, here's a dumb question, the whole "Sky, Sea, Stone" thing was implemented to help players pre-test their ability for these fights to ensure they could do the level of DPS expected of their job, right?

OK then, why not make the completion of the relevant SSS within the time limit a requirement to enter each trial or raid that has a test in SSS? After all, we don't want to be feeding high level adventurers into a meat grinder they cannot survive, do we?

Obviously they need to ensure that the difficulty and time limit actually provide a challenge such that if you complete in time you are playing to 75%(?) or more of your potential damage output. That would force players entering Savage raids and EX trials to actually know how to play at that level - at least in SSS. If they fail during actual combat, at least you know they have the potential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

a9s fail

---

yes yes the world is going down omg :P everyone brace urselfs ^^

well what to say some people just dont care and want to have fun in the game ^^ ur taking it way to serious :P

i know people who see that as a time waste , but others do not , as u know theres something called playing with friends :P instead of playing for loot and ur own personal goal :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

.

---

Yes and no. a9s is basically doing sky, sea and stone. You barely move if anything the boss only stands in 1 position most of the time. A test to make sure they could do it, would help somewhat, same time it wouldn't.
I'm not sure if that makes sense to you, but it's a whole different thing hitting a thing that barely gives you any mechanic, like a9s does. Those guys never bothered trying their rotation out nor did they seem to want to. After all they doing savage and yet they see enrage? Whos fault is that? Themselves and the issue here is people brush it off and think it's fine. This is a great example in my older post. If you find 6-7 others who plays on the very same level of that 1 person, this will happen. So killing it with 7 other good people doesn't make you good, it just makes you get easier kill because you happened to get to play with 7 others who does 75% or more dmg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

yes yes the world is going down omg :P everyone brace urselfs ^^

well what to say some people just dont care and want to have fun in the game ^^ ur taking it way to serious :P

i know people who see that as a time waste , but others do not , as u know theres something called playing with friends :P instead of playing for loot and ur own personal goal :P

---

Eh, you know. I wasnt there but if thats the case, theres no need to make a crossserver PF asking people to help for the clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by akaneakki

Yes and no. a9s is basically doing sky, sea and stone. You barely move if anything the boss only stands in 1 position most of the time. A test to make sure they could do it, would help somewhat, same time it wouldn't.
I'm not sure if that makes sense to you, but it's a whole different thing hitting a thing that barely gives you any mechanic, like a9s does. Those guys never bothered trying their rotation out nor did they seem to want to. After all they doing savage and yet they see enrage? Whos fault is that? Themselves and the issue here is people brush it off and think it's fine. This is a great example in my older post. If you find 6-7 others who plays on the very same level of that 1 person, this will happen. So killing it with 7 other good people doesn't make you good, it just makes you get easier kill because you happened to get to play with 7 others who does 75% or more dmg.

---

I know what you mean, I think. Executing your rotation perfectly against a dummy is simply a matter or memorizing the sequence and repeating it, while actually running the content you have to contend with AoEs and mechanics that will force you to change position and miss time attacks, or miss positionals. I completely understand what you are saying.

I must admit I would personally prefer it if the dummies were able to attack back with the same kind of attacks/AoEs as the real boss which would force you to move around, and be a more thorough test. I don't think it would be easy to include other mechanics because SSS is a solo test. However, just having the dummy attacking back and using it's AoEs would sharpen the test and increase it's worth IMHO.

Also, I completely agree that anyone playing with 7 good players will complete content no matter what they do as long as they don't exhaust the patience of the other 7 players...lol. I was just thinking that if the game placed some level of entry requirement on these fights, it would be easier to ensure that anyone entering the actual content might at least have the potential ability to beat it.

Though clearly it depends on the test, and the quality of the test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

yes yes the world is going down omg :P everyone brace urselfs ^^

well what to say some people just dont care and want to have fun in the game ^^ ur taking it way to serious :P

---

So basically, going into a high level, endgame duty with no hope of winning due to lack of party skill is absolutely fine, "so long as you're having fun ^_____________^"

I dunno about you, but my idea of fun is not being stuck in a duty I can't win. This attitude is exactly why we can't have nice things.

I don't understand, surely the point of a PVE game is to go into a duty with the intention of winning? If you party cannot win a fight and nobody wants to play to the required standard to beat said content, what in the hell are you doing in there? Sightseeing?

Like a man once said about a helicopter made of turds, this shit does not fly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

i know people who see that as a time waste , but others do not , as u know theres something called playing with friends :P instead of playing for loot and ur own personal goal :P

---

Do you have ANY idea what people do on party finder? They ask for help. My friend was helping and he met a griup who couldnt even do it, yes they even had it on farm apperently in different group. But this one they all gathered in 1 group together and failed.
If this was so easy as you claim it is, how come you don't tell people on your own server to ask for help and ask their friend instead? Then you need to understand this is a MMO, where you want to meet new people and not everyone have friends who raid, much as I respect my friends who RP in the game. You make it sound like hes the bad guy or me. In fact this is the last time I will ever reply to you, because you have done nothing than being offensive towards everyone who disagree with you. Take care.