@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a DPS class!!!

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

That's funny considering the DPS argument is "We NEED a sword DPS!". That is actually the most ridiculous statement.

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What's so ridiculous about it if it's true though? There isn't a 2 handed sword dps class and the one that should've been that role got switched to a tanking class in this game. It's about as ridiculous as wanting a universal dps class changed to a tank in this game b/c you just want it to be that.

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Originally Posted by Empress

An Actual Thief class doesn't do much and even previous main line games hell even Zidane he was way more of a Warrior disguised as a Thief. Hell he had insane high defense + hp for a "Thief" course lore explains why. But even so, for it to work they would have to be only good at stealing really. thats the whole reason why it was good in other games. Stealing items and mug + getting good and rare items from Bosses would unbalance the game if they could steal high rare gear thats better than ilvls because there would be no point otherwise.

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Zidane used like..some dual dagger weapon thing iirc, it was cool..but yea.

The THF I envision in XIV would be a really fast attacker, with lots of crits and multiple backstab abilities. I love dagger classes that have massive crits from the back :D Ninja kind of has that but its not a heavy DD...I am looking for a heavy DD. The dagger classes from L2 would be nice to see too. To me though ninja just feels like a support DD, it can't out DPS a SMN, BLM, MNK...etc. I mean if it did I think you have a really bad smn, blm, mnk..blah blah...

Just like how there is no heavy ranged pure DPS class (Ranger) in this game yet...well there isn't a dagger version of that either yet :( I kinda gave up hope for those though...lol dancer is my last hope for a DPS class that I may enjoy :D

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Just like how there is no heavy ranged pure DPS class (Ranger) in this game yet...well there isn't a dagger version of that either yet :( I kinda gave up hope for those though...lol dancer is my last hope for a DPS class that I may enjoy :D

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/.../545/OpoQQ.jpg

Sorry I don't speak internet meme language..I have no idea what that means lol. I assume that is what it is?

...waste of a post not contributing anything being discussed?

But regarding what you quoted me..if you can show me a pure ranged DD (non support) I'll gladly level it. Ranger!! So TIL we have THF and RNG in FFXIV lol. Well.. I guess a lot of my friends will finally come play! They told me they would when we have RNG and THF ^^ Can you please link me to the jobs on the main website so I can show them? :D

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Snip yet again because wtf is this

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what you want is impossible with the current build of the game. it would have to be completely overhauled similar to ARR. Having a actual thief wouldn't work and a Ranger we have Bard. its literally ranger if you want to quote that. I definitely contributed because what you wrote does nothing if not worse to contribute to this conversation. You are quoting things that are already in the game and as balanced as they can be.

Best way for what You might want for Thief would be similar to Rikku from FFX. While that would work again would need to be reworked properly.

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Originally Posted by Empress

snip.

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why wouldn't it work? there's nothing in the game that would stop them from adding jobs like that.

Bard is NOT ranger. Not even close..Ranger used guns and cross bows. o.O

add another slot in dungeons for support or something idk I'm not game dev/innovator but as a game dev there is always ALWAYS a way for them to do this stuff. lol the build of this game can do a lot of stuff that we may not even be able to think of....like a SAM tank or DPS. Just how DRK could never be a tank..well look at it now. Meh.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

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??? I can't really understand what You would want as skills. What they have currently in their skill pool actually works fine. I don't really think that other previous Archer classes in main line games had anything with a big pool of skills. Bravely Default only has abilities based off of how much damage per monster type they are *Bonus damage to dragons, birds ect*
Also the only other "Ranger Abilities" I can find are debuff inflicting. Which we already have some on Bard. Having toad status, mini, and more would either be too op or too useless. Especially since all monsters have immunity over time the more you cast debuffs which renders them useless. Mini and Toad would be too op because it would be similar to POTD just spam it and kill all mobs in seconds which while would be nice im not sure if people would like that. I wouldn't really mind being able to burn through mobs in seconds even better with toad aoe but devs would probably say no

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Originally Posted by Kiyashi

What's so ridiculous about it if it's true though? There isn't a 2 handed sword dps class and the one that should've been that role got switched to a tanking class in this game. It's about as ridiculous as wanting a universal dps class changed to a tank in this game b/c you just want it to be that.

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Because there's no magical rule that demands there ever be a sword DPS job. It's not some gigantic thing that must exist in this game or any game. So no, it isn't true at all. The game doesn't NEED a 2h sword DPS, people just WANT one. There's a big difference.

There you go ignoring all the evidence and logic that make SAM a strong candidate for a tank again.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

That's funny considering the most common DPS argument is "We NEED a sword DPS!". That is actually the most ridiculous statement.

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I mean I did state that imo all the reasons given are a bit of a joke, I want a Sam dps, which I did say is just personal preference, not a why Sam "MUST" be a dps same as your example or even the "must be a tank because we need drk knight in eastern gear with a katana" the reasons people are claiming "must" be dps or tank are not really great reasons, I've yet to see any to convince me why it "must" be x type is all.

Idk I see alot of people claiming to be tank mains and taking everything as a personal attack and then getting very defensive and high horsey about it all, I was a tank main until 3.3 and ik how important the role is, I also know how stale it can get and I don't see how a shiny new job will fix that and make it feel refreshing.

Regardless of what people think though the decision will already have been made, one side or the others going to be disappointed, or maybe both.

I think the main issue is almost every class (Tank or Healer) that has been suggested has been bombarded with "NO, make it a DPS!" Dark Knight, Samurai, Redmage, Dancer and it seems to constantly be tossed back that we have many more jobs that tanks could have, which then I don't see any listed other than "Rune Fencer" or whatever the job was, yet that seems more like a Redmage just a name twist.

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Originally Posted by HiroKirito

I mean I did state that imo all the reasons given are a bit of a joke, I want a Sam dps, which I did say is just personal preference, not a why Sam "MUST" be a dps same as your example or even the "must be a tank because we need drk knight in eastern gear with a katana" the reasons people are claiming "must" be dps or tank are not really great reasons, I've yet to see any to convince me why it "must" be x type is all.

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I've never said anything "must be" anything at all, only that certain things make sense and logically should be, but never must be. You are chosing to simply ignore the very valid reasons that have been brought forth multiple times, so what do you want people to say? If you're adamant on not taking any of the claims seriously or willing to see a different perspective then nothing will ever change that.

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Idk I see alot of people claiming to be tank mains and taking everything as a personal attack and then getting very defensive and high horsey about it all, I was a tank main until 3.3 and ik how important the role is, I also know how stale it can get and I don't see how a shiny new job will fix that and make it feel refreshing.

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I feel like you're somehow blind to all the DPS players who come in here, or go and start making copy-cat threads (Like this thread for example, started as a form of whiny protest, attempting to pull a "hah, suck it tank players!" with it's opening post.)

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Originally Posted by AndytheRaven

As the title says make it dps and like this post to show support in it.

then see the SAM as tank thread with its lowly 13 likes how in the minority they are

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It doesn't get much more high horsey and petty than that.

If you don't see how adding new jobs brings variety and freshness to players than I can't help you. The logic that you think tanks are boring and are then undeserving of new jobs, while playing a DPS and preferring a job to be added as a new DPS (when DPS roles already have a huge variety compared to tanks). There's really nothing I can say because to be honest, the way your mind works makes no sense to me then.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

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I did not say you were saying "must be" I'm saying alot of the debate, if you can call it that is drowning in "must be x role <insert nonsensical reason>" I can see it as either role, I'd just preffer it as a dps class.

It seems like your taking this as a personal attack claiming I'm ignoring valid reasons? You haven't presented me with any, I've tried to generalise the ridiculous reasons I've seen, I'll admit I highlight tanks ones but you kindly threw in the ridiculous dps reasons as a counter ^^

High horsing and petty aren't the same thing, I did not claim anyone was in the right. I've seen alot of "you cant do what we do youre just a dps" and threats to quit tanking or quit the game altogether if Sams not a tank, not saying that's your stance or opinion whatsoever.

I'm glad you highlighted variety, that's more what I meant with a shiny new role won't fix it, I personally can't see how Sam will be different enough from dark to be anything other than a dark in eastern gear, if it's implemented as a tank I hope it does provide more variety, but if variety and diversity is what the tanking community desire, why push for a role that will share atleast some similarities with the current roles? Why aren't the tanking community more up in arms that,say for example red mage isn't going to be a tank?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Tanking is boring. #FACT

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DPS even more boring with the df queue #FACT

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Originally Posted by Eul

DPS even more boring with the df queue #FACT

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Pffft. Real DPS multi task.

The two classes that I really wanted to play were Dark Knight as a DPS, Ninja as a Tank and Samurai as a DPS. If Samurai is not released as a DPS, I will be very frustrated...

Since we have PotD now, I don't care what you make the Samurai, as long as the class is fun.

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Originally Posted by HiroKirito

I did not say you were saying "must be" I'm saying alot of the debate, if you can call it that is drowning in "must be x role <insert nonsensical reason>" I can see it as either role, I'd just preffer it as a dps class.

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Hardly anyone asking for it to be a tank never state it cannot be a DPS though, yet there are plenty of DPS players who come in and straight up say it cannot be a tank. There is a large resistance against it being a tank, even though it's a completely viable choice as one, making more sense than their choice of Dark Knight.

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I've seen alot of "you cant do what we do youre just a dps" and threats to quit tanking or quit the game altogether if Sams not a tank, not saying that's your stance or opinion whatsoever.

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There's plenty of DPS players who have said things along the same vein though. Or ones who come in and act like tank players deserve no new jobs ever, or merely scraps (i.e. obscure and unpopular jobs). This isn't my first rodeo for these kinds of threads, I've seen all manner of preposterous arguments that hold no weight, the majority of them being from DPS players. I'm not saying both sides don't have their weak arguments, but I just don't know how anyone can look at this thread (or the original tanking one) and say that it's the tank players with the more ridiculous ones.

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I'm glad you highlighted variety, that's more what I meant with a shiny new role won't fix it, I personally can't see how Sam will be different enough from dark to be anything other than a dark in eastern gear, if it's implemented as a tank I hope it does provide more variety, but if variety and diversity is what the tanking community desire, why push for a role that will share atleast some similarities with the current roles? Why aren't the tanking community more up in arms that,say for example red mage isn't going to be a tank?

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Just because you can't envision it as different doesn't mean it can't be. I could say the same thing about how it would be any different than the existing 3 melee DPS jobs we have, but that's what you'd prefer it to be.

The tanking community isn't up in arms about RDM because RDM by most was never considered a strong contender for the tanking role anyways. It didn't make as much sense from a thematic and design approach for it to be a tank. It's also not nearly as popular of an archetype as a Samurai. The same thing applies to other similar suggestions such as Blue Mage etc.

I agree that it could be either role, I'd just prefer a dps, equally I know rdm was not a serious contender as a tank role it's just an example, instead of seeing "rdm looks cool, hybrid range chain melee, I hope we get a new unique tanking class" we instantly saw across the forums "there's your sword class dpsers, Sam is Deffo gunna be a tank lolz"

I did say that although I can't envision that Sam would be too different from dark I hope it is and they work it to provide variety if they decide to implement it as a tank.

I disagree though about it being the level of ridiculousness being predominantly dsp based, proportionally they are probably on par, very few can articulate an eloquent point about why it should be one role or the other when it could easily be either, like I said the "debate" is just drowning in "lolz it'll be a dps" or "nah uh tank 4 sho"

I'm going to laugh VERY HARD if they announce the new class and it's not SAM... ROFL