Parsers and Problems

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

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So you would be perfectly fine in hard content if the tank couldn't or didn't evern try to hold enmity and the mobs where running all over the place killing everyone else? Or a healer that refuses to heal in hard content?

No you wouldn't. No one would. You would tell them and if no change, replace them. But that would be blatently obvious. Yet when It comes to DPS there isn't on all jobs obvious things to see if they are underperforming at the level neeeded to clear content. Parsers will show that. Or, more often than not, they think they are doing fine when they aren't. Parsers will show them the reality of why they cannot progress on content.

Wouldn't you prefer to know why you can't do certain content? Instead of continuing oblivious to the facts of why you cannot progress.

Tanks are accountable for mistakes or playing badly, healers are held accountable for mistakes and playing badly because it is painfully obvious when they do.

When I play tank and I screw up, bad things happen and it's obvious. When I run as SCH and I mess up, players die. Yet as MNK if I messed up my rotation, as i'm with other DPS, then it is not obvious.

Now give me a reason why DPS cannot be held to the same accountability as tanks and healers.

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Originally Posted by Souto_Nami

As a side note (and I really don't mean to insult anyone here, it's just my opinion only) you people that play for progress and find it fun are the reason why mmos have stopped focusing on the community and why the sandbox genre just isn't successful with mmos anymore. Talking about wiping continuously as a waste of time when playing a game (and an mmo at that) IIIIS a waste of time and nothing you ever accomplish in a game will ever mean anything (friendships and marriages excluded, those are everlasting <3) and we all need to start acknowledging that.

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Wiping continuously without seeing any sort of progress IS a waste of time.
I don't mind trying Bismarck EX for 2 hours straight if I see that we are slowly getting further. But when we are wiping at the exact same spot every single time, it gets incredibly frustrating.

I can't believe the sorry and poor excuses people come up with to enable being bad where the content requires you to be at your up most peak performance.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I don't like parser's never have since how people use them.
A lot say no they want to improve and help them, that's a big lie in itself

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When raid content is current and fresh, its needed to situational optimize the DPS output. Thats not possible without knowing the numbers. Working through the battle log is also not an option, as long DoT and HoT ticks are missing. And it would be slow. Very slow.

As long you are lacking in experience with current raid content, you don't know what is a lie and what not. So you should not call out stuff, you don't have the knowledge about.

You can ask as many raidgroups as you want. You will not find a single group, that finished at least A1S and don't use parsers.

Eh...Some people use parsers for their own personal gain (me), some people use it to help others, some people use it to belittle others. It's the same as being in a position of power. How it's used is dependant on the person in said position.
And as stated before it's pretty useful for raiding for a few reasons. I personally wouldn't mind seeing an in-game parser, but I might be biased since I'm confident with the numbers I pull on my DPS and tank jobs.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

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Maybe. But he's not entitled to hold people back, just because he pays 15 bucks. So does everyone else. People ARE entitled to beat the content they queue up for and if some player is making it impossible, he needs to go. It's as simple as that.

Always the same debate. Parsers do not make people mean. Mean people may abuse it, but those people would be mean even without a parser. Badmouthing everyone that uses a parser is just outright rude. Most people will not care about your numbers as long as you're clearing content. If your dps is holding a party back? Yeah, that's bad, and you shouldn't be expected to be babied around with other people overecerting for your lack of damage. Even then, most people will not be rude about it, but rather ask if you're doing X or telling facts as are.

I get the feeling that the only people against parsers are the ones that are really not pulling their weight at all. If you're doing less than 500dps on content with i180, especially end-game, then yeah, that's bad when I could do more on my lvl 50 bard on 2,5.

For the people arguing that mechanics>dps; true, but they're not mutually exclusive. Good players will both deal decent damage and perform the mechanics to an agreeable standard. You will not be clearing any hard content, if you're dealing less dps than your Warrior friend.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I don't like parser's never have since how people use them.
A lot say no they want to improve and help them, that's a big lie in itself, your idea of helping and improving is kicking, also why would people help if they don't want to explain a fight then direct them to youtube.

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people who don't want parsers implemented are those who are too lazy to play their best and just wants to be carried.

see, I can also make untrue generalizing statement.

If DPS were held accountable for their actions from the get-go we'd probably have very little if no complaints about parsers on the forums. Now that DPS have been coddled, hell will freeze over before they give it up.

For example SWTOR allows parsers. In all the years I played SWTOR I didn't see a single complaint on the forum about parsers.

It's really a shame that the devs decided to go this way. In the end I think they caused more friction in the community than they stopped.

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Originally Posted by Elim

If DPS were held accountable for their actions from the get-go we'd probably have very little if no complaints about parsers on the forums. Now that DPS have been coddled, hell will freeze over before they give it up.

For example SWTOR allows parsers. In all the years I played SWTOR I didn't see a single complaint on the forum about parsers.

It's really a shame that the devs decided to go this way. In the end I think they caused more friction in the community than they stopped.

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this is actually a pretty interesting thought! Do you think the cultures evolved differently because of the 'official' response from the Devs, in one case one effectively banning it (meaning that people could hide behind it) vs. the other case where it was publicly allowed (meaning that people embraced it within the community.)


If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

this is actually a pretty interesting thought! Do you think the cultures evolved differently because of the 'official' response from the Devs, in one case one effectively banning it (meaning that people could hide behind it) vs. the other case where it was publicly allowed (meaning that people embraced it within the community.)


If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

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There will be crying for a good month or so, but it'll end up dying down as people grow to accept it or move on.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

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If parsers were suddenly allowed in FF14, I think some DPS would put up a fuss at the start because, as I said, they've been coddled. There would be "I'm going to quit!" and "re-ban parsers!" threads for the first maybe six months. They'd all get use to it eventually(or quit and come back once they realized every other MMO allows them...).

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Help like how kick people? They paid their subscription and is allowed to fight that fight, he got into the fight because the requirements were met.

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Paying a subscription doesn't entitle a person to be disruptive to the rest of the group. (All of whom also pay subscriptions, mind you.)
The subscription is an entry fee, like a ticket to an amusement park, not a VIP free beer princess-for-a-day pass.

The "I pay a subscription so I can do whatever I want" mentality is absurd.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

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People who do good will welcome parsers with open arms, people who can't be bothered to not be a burden to the party will cry on the forums for a few months.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

this is actually a pretty interesting thought! Do you think the cultures evolved differently because of the 'official' response from the Devs, in one case one effectively banning it (meaning that people could hide behind it) vs. the other case where it was publicly allowed (meaning that people embraced it within the community.)

If we ever do get a parse from SE, do you think it will be embraced or do you think it will create people who make PF's saying "No parses allowed"? Do you think there will be a negative reaction to its presence?

Before anyone counters that players will leave en-masse if a Parse is introduced, do keep in mind that many successful MMO's have had the presence of parses without issue. I don't think a large portion of the playerbase will be affected or will act upon it.

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There may be "No parses allowed" PF's, but PF isn't really a huge aspect of the game. I think most people play with their FC or with DF. I only say this based off experience, but I see maybe 2-10 PF's up at once, the majority are Fate parties, 1-3 are usually random, 1-3 are often unsynced clears and then there may be 1 or 2 BisEX/RavEX or Savage clear/farms. I have to imagine there is more going on than PF suggests.

Regardless, adding in messages like that to PF allows you to be paired up with people with similar playstyles. People who hate parses will join the "No parsing allowed" and people who want it will join the other parties. NBD.

I honestly don't see the problem.

The only argument that holds any weight is that people with toxic attitudes will now have evidence that they can put forth to back up their toxic claims. Instead of "Wow BLM you suck" people can say "Wow BLM, your DPS is less than the PLD's, you suck". I mean, whatever really. They're still there. Why not add parses for the thousands of players that aren't like that and that would benefit from them?

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

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As with any change, there will be vehement opposition from part of the community while another part vehemently defends its inclusion. Overall, I doubt it will be a big deal a couple months after that. DPS really only matters for end game, not for leveling (wherein it becomes an advantage/perk), so whether people want to make groups that disallows parsing is up to players, but I don't think it will be prevalent (I'm of the mindset that meters offers more advantages than disadvantages). The introduction of a meter has never really spelled doom for any game in the past; a community adjusts with change and moves forward.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

People who do good will welcome parsers with open arms, people who can't be bothered to not be a burden to the party will cry on the forums for a few months.

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How about adding a third group: People who do well enough to clear content but don't care for know-it-alls putting their 2 gil where it isn't requested. Or does that wreck your binary talking point too badly?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Instead of "Wow BLM you suck" people can say "Wow BLM, your DPS is less than the PLD's, you suck".

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Whereas that is the wrong way to tell someone, it's still true. Like doing expert on DF and the BRD was doing sub 300 DPS on the bosses. Like really? And they had wanderers active also.A parser would pretty much tell them they have to improve and look at their gameplay.

If players have the misconception they are playing adequetly and cannot see that the rest of the party is, by all intents and purposes carrying them through content they will have the notion that they do not need to improve whatsoever. A parser will make em see with absolute proof that they need to. Wouldn't you prefer to go into Ex primals in duty finder with the confidence that the rest of the party actually play their job to a decent standard? I know I would and might actually use DF for harder content if that happens.

Another argument is players pay so they can play how they want. Yet that allowance is not given for tanks and healers, because if tanks and healers play to the same level as those who make that argument then those same players would complain.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Paying a subscription doesn't entitle a person to be disruptive to the rest of the group. (All of whom also pay subscriptions, mind you.)
The subscription is an entry fee, like a ticket to an amusement park, not a VIP free beer princess-for-a-day pass.

The "I pay a subscription so I can do whatever I want" mentality is absurd.

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I can say the same to you, it doesn't entitle you to use a parser to judge people just for low dps.

that's why SE doesn't want to give it to you, what you are saying right now is the point I am making, you think you are entitled but not others.

What makes you better or anyone for that matter than someone else?

What is a subscription for to play the game, having low DPS is not disrupting you as a player, the only reason you know this is because of your parser, if you didn't have it, you wouldn't know thus you can't put the blame on anyone and that's exactly what im pointing out.

Exactly the reason I hope square does not allow this to happen in game your way of thinking is bad for the game.

To me I play to have fun, if a person messes up oh well, stand up do it again and beat it, I don't complain and how you ever going to expect someone to get better if you all keep kicking people out.

Yet you say get better and they can't you guys are really something you know that? elitist what you gonna do.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

How about adding a third group: People who do well enough to clear content but don't care for know-it-alls putting their 2 gil where it isn't requested. Or does that wreck your binary talking point too badly?

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Îf they don't care and are doing well (thus fitting in my "people who do good" statement), they have no reason to be against parsers, right?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

that's why SE doesn't want to give it to you, what you are saying right now is the point I am making, you think you are entitled but not others.

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You can't be serious. YOU think people are entitled to play as bad as they want and disrupt other's dungeon/trial/raid experience.

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What is a subscription for to play the game, having low DPS is not disrupting you as a player, the only reason you know this is because of your parser, if you didn't have it, you wouldn't know thus you can't put the blame on anyone and that's exactly what im pointing out.

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If I want to run a dungeon/trial/raid and there is one or more people doing extremely low dps and they are thus denying me and the other people the clear, they need to get out. You generally don't even need a parser for that, because just looking at the Blizz spamming BLM will tell you what the issue is, but with a parser everyone would be able to see it.

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Exactly the reason I hope square does not allow this to happen in game your way of thinking is bad for the game.

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I'd argue that YOUR way of thinking is bad for the game, because it encourages people to disrupt others.

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To me I play to have fun, if a person messes up oh well, stand up do it again and beat it, I don't complain and how you ever going to expect someone to get better if you all keep kicking people out.

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Yes, because that is what everyone is instantly doing, right?

Here's a fun fact: Good players also play for fun. You don't need to be bad at the game to have fun. Being good is probably way more fun!

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Yet you say get better and they can't you guys are really something you know that? elitist what you gonna do.

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Yeah, but meaningless buzzword buzzword buzzword! Explain THAT!

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Another argument is players pay so they can play how they want. Yet that allowance is not given for tanks and healers, because if tanks and healers play to the same level as those who make that argument then those same players would complain.

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This is a great point, the anti-parser crowd always conveniently ignores.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

having low DPS is not disrupting you as a player

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If its gonna be a wipefest over and over again, because of that low DPS player, this player is disrupting me.

But as we can see: You don't want to understand.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I can say the same to you, it doesn't entitle you to use a parser to judge people just for low dps.

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When players cannot meet DPS requirements for content and thus cannot clear, then yes, it is disrupting my play and everyone else in the party that are making an effort to clear the content. The onl;y difference a parser would make is in showing where the problems are. DPS player 1 and 2 may be doing over whats needed, whereas DPS 3 and 4 are doing under the minimum required to clear. A parser will allow the rest of the party to fix the problem and either help the underperforming players or replace them. The underperforming players will know exactly why if they get replaced and any sane person will try to fix that so they no longer get replaced. NO ONE goes into content with the intention to fail.

How does one persons subscription outweigh the combined subscriptions of the rest of the party if that one person is disrupting the others gamplay by underperforming to the minmum standard required to clear content?

Also, I'll ask again. Would you keep an underperforming tank who keeps losing aggro and cannot be bothered to get it back, which causes the party to wipe? Would you keep a healer who doesn't heal enough to keep players alive, so party dies and wipes? So what makes DPS so special that they can underperform and not be held accountable?

Also viable reason for kicking underperforming players is difference of playstyle. There playstyle is playing badly. Player dispute, thus fine with the vote kick rules.

Also I've stated before, and others have too. players are ALREADY being kicked from parties for bad gameplay. With a parser DPS will know exactly why they are getting replaced. Also it would act as a wake up call to no, they are not playing to the minimum required to pass said content. With that wake up call we may actually see less whine posts demanding things get nerfed. Or less need for content getting Echo buffs.

In before, I main as MNK, and doesn't matter if I'm with static progressing on Alex Savage or with random players in Duty Finder, I play to my best to contribute towards a fun and succesful run for everyone. Levelling NIN which I hadn't touched since I got to 50 many months ago, I didn't touch DF until I got comfortable with the rotation again and was performing adequetly.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I can say the same to you, it doesn't entitle you to use a parser to judge people just for low dps.

that's why SE doesn't want to give it to you, what you are saying right now is the point I am making, you think you are entitled but not others.

What makes you better or anyone for that matter than someone else?

What is a subscription for to play the game, having low DPS is not disrupting you as a player, the only reason you know this is because of your parser, if you didn't have it, you wouldn't know thus you can't put the blame on anyone and that's exactly what im pointing out.

Exactly the reason I hope square does not allow this to happen in game your way of thinking is bad for the game.

To me I play to have fun, if a person messes up oh well, stand up do it again and beat it, I don't complain and how you ever going to expect someone to get better if you all keep kicking people out.

Yet you say get better and they can't you guys are really something you know that? elitist what you gonna do.

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Your first point applies to you as well, you know. You're as entitled to play poorly as your group is to kicking you. How is having low DPS not disrupting runs? Have you ever heard of a DPS race? If a group is dying during a DPS race and one person is underperforming, then that is totally disrupting a run. Whether you had the parser or not, you would STILL WIPE, but having a parser allows you to get an idea of what's wrong due to low numbers, and deal with a situation accordingly instead of disbanding the entire group.

Having fun and playing well are not mutually exclusive, by the way. I have more fun with people that play well clearing content than being stuck with a group of people dying to the same mechanics/phases of a fight over and over again and answering with "just stick to your job" when given advice.

You've mentioned that you've gotten kicked from groups before. How many times have you gone on YouTube or visited the DPS forums and read a guide pertaining to your job? You seem to think that DPS players pulling their own weight is a luxury rather than a requirement. Someone else said this before and I'd like an answer to the following question. If a tank is playing poorly, it is noticeable and the group will wipe. If a healer is playing poorly, it is noticeable and the group will wipe. What gives you a free pass as a DPS?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Also, I'll ask again. Would you keep an underperforming tank who keeps losing aggro and cannot be bothered to get it back, which causes the party to wipe? Would you keep a healer who doesn't heal enough to keep players alive, so party dies and wipes? So what makes DPS so special that they can underperform and not be held accountable?

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Cannot stress this enough, point has appeared multiple times in the DPS forums thread.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Also, I'll ask again. Would you keep an underperforming tank who keeps losing aggro and cannot be bothered to get it back, which causes the party to wipe? Would you keep a healer who doesn't heal enough to keep players alive, so party dies and wipes? So what makes DPS so special that they can underperform and not be held accountable?

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Originally Posted by Odett

You've mentioned that you've gotten kicked from groups before. How many times have you gone on YouTube or visited the DPS forums and read a guide pertaining to your job? You seem to think that DPS players pulling their own weight is a luxury rather than a requirement. Someone else said this before and I'd like an answer to the following question. If a tank is playing poorly, it is noticeable and the group will wipe. If a healer is playing poorly, it is noticeable and the group will wipe. What gives you a free pass as a DPS?

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Take all of my likes! I seriously hate this double standard. I can't fathom going into DF and not doing my best no matter what my role is. I usually tank or heal, but I enjoy playing DPS too. It's nice to have less pressure on you sometimes! Any time I get a class to 60, if I'm going to be playing it at all I either go research on google or "phone a friend" and pick their brain about the job.

Now that I think about it, it's funny how nobody in the anti-parser crowd ever has an answer for this question.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Now that I think about it, it's funny how nobody in the anti-parser crowd ever has an answer for this question.

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They seem to conveniently ignore that question because they don't have an answer which would support their view on not having parsers.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

What is a subscription for to play the game, having low DPS is not disrupting you as a player, the only reason you know this is because of your parser, if you didn't have it, you wouldn't know thus you can't put the blame on anyone and that's exactly what im pointing out.

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You keep throwing around the word subscription as if you're the only one paying for them. Don't forget that everyone who plays FF14 pays the subscription, including the people you're playing with that keeps failing DPS checks because you can't meet the DPS requirement.

and not knowing where the problem originates from does not mean that the problem doesn't exist.
low DPS in a DPS check content is disruptive.
How are you gonna clear the DPS check if you can't meet it?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

To me I play to have fun, if a person messes up oh well, stand up do it again and beat it, I don't complain and how you ever going to expect someone to get better if you all keep kicking people out.

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how can you "stand up do it again and beat it" if you keep failing at DPS checks?
is it fun for the rest of the party who gets held back by the person who can't meet the DPS requirement?
how can you tell who needs to improve if everyone does the mechanics perfectly but keep failing the DPS check?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Yet you say get better and they can't you guys are really something you know that? elitist what you gonna do.

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why can't they?
if they can get better, then of course they won't be kicked.
but if they can't, is it fair that 7 people is held back by the 1 person who as you said it, can't get better?
and how can they get better if they don't know they have a problem?

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Originally Posted by hagare

You keep throwing around the word subscription as if you're the only one paying for them.

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Show me exactly where I said I was the only one paying a subscription, when I've been saying others pay a subscription fumbling your words?

I think a GM should shut this thread down, parser's are already against the rules, all this is doing is causing fights it should be locked.

One thing is for sure, all of you are ganging up on me because its a fact and you hate it, cause if it wasn't a fact then why doesn't he allow your third party tool? why do you get temp banned for using it if reported?

So lets attack the guy who doesn't like it, I am not attacking you, only telling you that's how you use it just to abuse it. every player including you has a right to play this game.

Yes if a person is running into monsters not fighting right or trolling yeah I agree kick, though if a person is dodging fine and you all are dying and you guys say well you arent helping dps is too low thats why I die then you are in the wrong.

Maybe if you learn to dodge instead of watching the parser and complaining about dps you'd be able to win your fights its like that saying keep your eye on the ball "to give your attention to what you are doing all the time " not what someone else is doing you might crash and burn that's your fault nobody elses. take responsibility

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

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Please answer our question. Why are tanks and healers held accountable for failure to do their jobs but DPS aren't if a DPS race is the cause of a wipe?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

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People are just saying that as much as you have the right to play how you want, others do as well and if a player's playstyle impinges on the enjoyment of the majority of a group, they have all the right to remove said player, be it for blocking progress or all other valid reasons. If a person isn't pulling their weight while the other seven people are, they are within their rights to vote kick them, just as you are able to initiate a vote kick on others for a myriad of reasons.

If you get kicked for low DPS at present, you won't know now since parsers are all hush hush. Regardless of one being introduced or not, the only difference is that in one scenario a low DPS has zero idea of why they were removed, while in another there's a pretty good indication as to the reason they were vote kicked in that situation.

Quoted for clarity.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Please answer our question. Why are tanks and healers held accountable for failure to do their jobs but DPS aren't if a DPS race is the cause of a wipe?

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You are all responsible for what you do, there is no favorites in a group, either it works or it don't a parser does not tell you the skill level.

Its like in FFXI a person could buy a account with the best gear max stats, it does not make him the best player.

A person with low DPS could be better than you even if you played right even if you dodged right and he did the same doesn't mean the next boss fight you won't fumble up you put your faith in a tool instead of your own experience, you're not a gamer then if you let the game play you. If you have to use a program to get the job done that's pretty sad.

If I fail that just makes me a better player because I can accept it, then try again until its correct, I don't need a program to show me that like you all do.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

You are all responsible for what you do, there is no favorites in a group, either it works or it don't a parser does not tell you the skill level.

Its like in FFXI a person could buy a account with the best gear max stats, it does not make him the best player.

A person with low DPS could be better than you even if you played right even if you dodged right and he did the same doesn't mean the next boss fight you won't fumble up you put your faith in a tool instead of your own experience, you're not a gamer then if you let the game play you. If you have to use a program to get the job done that's pretty sad.

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A parser can tell you HOW MUCH DPS EACH PERSON IS DOING. A parser does not play the game for you. It's a TOOL THAT MERELY COLLECTS THE DATA PRESENTED IN THE BATTLE LOG. A parser can show you who's not pulling their weight DPS wise and if DPS checks aren't being met, then you know WHY. If you are constantly wiping in a fight at the same point due to a DPS check, then SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. I'm not sure how clearer this can be conveyed to you.

No one is picking on you, so you can drop the victim complex. We're trying to show you just how grossly misinformed you are. It's clear to see that you do not know what you are talking about. By the way, you didn't answer the question.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

If I fail that just makes me a better player because I can accept it, then try again until its correct, I don't need a program to show me that like you all do.

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How do you know how much DPS you're doing, then? How do you think that the people who came up with the best rotations arrived at their conclusions?

Failing a DPS race consistently has nothing to do with dodging or any of what you're talking about. Failing a DPS race consistently and thinking you'll get it next time by not changing anything is best compared to repeatedly smashing your head against a 6-inch-thick cement wall and thinking you're going to break through.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Show me exactly where I said I was the only one paying a subscription, when I've been saying others pay a subscription fumbling your words?

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you're the one who keeps saying someone has the right to play how they want while only looking at it from one side.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

So lets attack the guy who doesn't like it, I am not attacking you, only telling you that's how you use it just to abuse it. every player including you has a right to play this game.

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how are you not attacking people? You're throwing around accusations that people only use parsers JUST to abuse it!

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

though if a person is dodging fine and you all are dying and you guys say well you arent helping dps is too low thats why I die then you are in the wrong.

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how can you tell who needs to improve if everyone does the mechanics perfectly but keep failing the DPS check?

from my previous post. answer that.
an example would be in Bismarck EX, No one died, mechanics were done perfectly, we couldn't get past the snakes DPS check.
we didn't know how to improve because everything was done perfectly except the DPS check. What do you do now? disband?

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Maybe if you learn to dodge instead of watching the parser and complaining about dps you'd be able to win your fights its like that saying keep your eye on the ball "to give your attention to what you are doing all the time " not what someone else is doing you might crash and burn that's your fault nobody elses. take responsibility

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^here's another example of you attacking people with baseless claims.
You don't even know how people use parsers.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

If I fail that just makes me a better player because I can accept it, then try again until its correct, I don't need a program to show me that like you all do.

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How? How are you gonna know what you are lacking in?
When you've done the mechanics perfectly but still fail to meet the DPS check?
Please enlighten us.

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Originally Posted by Albert Einstein

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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Doing the same exact rotations and expecting to be able to clear DPS checks when you failed before.

Of course this does not include the possible fact that another DPS in the group is playing at their 150%.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

sbip

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How does pulling mechanics wrong and not even having decent dps make one better than a person that consistently does both right? No one is letting the parser play the game for them. People are taking the time to learn the best rotations by spending hours on a dummy or doing small adjustments to the fight. Parsing doesn't make anyone good by default, but it gives you objective facts about your progress and how you fare against others.

And no, I would argue that anyone who actually takes the time to gitgud is a better player in general, but that's just me. I don't understand how being ignorant makes anyone better than someone going out of their way to get better.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but your ideals sound very absurd to me. And the very fact how you're shooting everyone who doesn't agee with you as wrong when we're talking about opinions and experiences here is not helping your case.

And btw, I agree with the party being equally responsible for clearing an instance, but doesn't that just mean that everyone wants to do their best to succeed?

Let me use an example. A certain fight has a strict 5k dps check for dps players alone. We have 3 dps player doing 1,3k+ dps. We have one dps at around 800. We'll be missing about 300 to clear the check. Would you rather ask the people already overexerting to do an extra hundred, or ask whether there's something the fourth one can do better? Or would you disband the party, get the low dps again, and keep bashing your head to the wall?

Personally I would hate to be the fourth person and not know I'm underperforming, but that's me. Most people would be happy to get carried through everything and anything.

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how are you not attacking people? You're throwing around accusations that people only use parsers JUST to abuse it!

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I've seen it first hand in party's, where someone say's they are using a parser that the person is being out damaged but the fights are doing okay and this person begins battering the person putting them down talking mad crap until the other one defends himself and says, we are doing a good job and then they get kicked?

Sounds almost like you are trying to make parser sound great for the game and maybe that's not how you use it but other's do and by your logic its okay because you don't use it like that.

Its not that I am attacking, its telling you what I've experienced from people using those parser's.

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^here's another example of you attacking people with baseless claims.
You don't even know how people use parsers.

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Again the next time I am in a party and notice I am going to bring that here to show you how people use the parser's then we'll talk about baseless claims. I'll snap a photo or record it on my ps4 and slap it on youtube.


You know what I think, I think you are trying to convince SE that nobody uses the tool wrong that because you use it the correct way others do also.

Which you are saying my comments are baseless shows me that clearly, Why would I make things up like this, I have nothing to gain, I mean the tool is not allowed to begin with why would I lie, if the tool was allowed im sure more than just me would be complaining cause after a while I am sure it would get out of hand not just what i seen.

So keep trying to convince SE its okay from what I seen it gives people attitudes and a god complex.


I have no problems with none of you but the program I do I am glad its not allowed I hope it continues to stay this way I mean that training dummy or whatever they are adding wont help you im sure you gonna still ask for it.

Though about your baseless comment to me, I've seen so many people attacking others who use a parser and like i said they start off by putting into a corner until they respond back I am the one who says hey now we are doing fine the guy says this guy is so and so a cuss word this and that piece of beep cuss cuss cuss then kicks my vote is no but if I were the guy I would report.

like i said though you might not be like this but please don't try to convince SE that someone isn't using it like that.

I mean cmon.


Oh and about the snakes, like I said why would you need a program to win the fight that's my question to you.

I am pretty sure people have done it perfectly without it, whats the problem that you need this tool so bad or you can't do it without it or something?

I am done talking about parser's for now but like I said, if I run into cussing and putting down i'll be sure to record it each time or take pictures and post them for you and I'll show you baseless okay? peace bro.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Sounds almost like you are trying to make parser sound great for the game and maybe that's not how you use it but other's do and by your logic its okay because you don't use it like that.

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only you are saying that.
parser is a tool, and like all tools there are many ways to use it.
I'm sorry that all your experiences are terrible, because I've never been treated that way by anyone using it.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

You know what I think, I think you are trying to convince SE that nobody uses the tool wrong that because you use it the correct way others do also.

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most people want parser, because to them the good outweighs the bad.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Oh and about the snakes, like I said why would you need a program to win the fight that's my question to you.

I am pretty sure people have done it perfectly without it, whats the problem that you need this tool so bad or you can't do it without it or something?

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no one, NO ONE! ever said that parser is a program to win!
it helps to know why you can't get pass the DPS check. Who is lacking, who is not.
of course if been done perfectly, after they disband and get other people to do it with them.
leaving the one who might under performing without help and unable to clear.
unless of course that's your kind of solution, screw this party, I'll get another one that can help me clear.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I am done talking about parser's for now but like I said, if I run into cussing and putting down i'll be sure to record it each time or take pictures and post them for you and I'll show you baseless okay? peace bro.

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post those who don't cuss you as well, after all they might be parsing too.
or do you assume only jerks parse?

PS: I'm done with you

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

I've seen it first hand in party's, where someone say's they are using a parser that the person is being out damaged but the fights are doing okay and this person begins battering the person putting them down talking mad crap until the other one defends himself and says, we are doing a good job and then they get kicked?

Sounds almost like you are trying to make parser sound great for the game and maybe that's not how you use it but other's do and by your logic its okay because you don't use it like that.

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Parsers would be great for the game for a lot of reasons that people have already explained, but you seem unwilling to listen.

I'm sorry that you've had such awful experiences, in any case.

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Its not that I am attacking, its telling you what I've experienced from people using those parser's.

Again the next time I am in a party and notice I am going to bring that here to show you how people use the parser's then we'll talk about baseless claims. I'll snap a photo or record it on my ps4 and slap it on youtube.

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And that proves exactly what? A parser doesn't make you an asshole, but unfortunately assholes can use parsers like the rest of us.

Multiple people have said that multiple times across multiple posts now.

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You know what I think, I think you are trying to convince SE that nobody uses the tool wrong that because you use it the correct way others do also.

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I think that you're trying to convince SE that since a few people use the tool wrong, everyone will.

I guess we're back to the analogy about outlawing hammers.

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like i said though you might not be like this but please don't try to convince SE that someone isn't using it like that.

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The question isn't whether or not someone is using it like that. You keep insinuating that everyone uses it like that. I have a parser running pretty much 24/7 because otherwise I forget to turn it on when I want it to be running. It runs in the background and I honestly don't pay any mind to it the majority of the time. If things seem to be dying more slowly than usual or we're running into a wall on a DPS check, I'll go look at it. Most of the time even if someone is underperforming, I don't say a thing to them.

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Oh and about the snakes, like I said why would you need a program to win the fight that's my question to you.

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You keep coming back to this strawman of "needing a program to win the fight". Parsers don't do the fight for you.

All they do is sort the information from the battle log into a more readable format.

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I am pretty sure people have done it perfectly without it, whats the problem that you need this tool so bad or you can't do it without it or something?

I am done talking about parser's for now but like I said, if I run into cussing and putting down i'll be sure to record it each time or take pictures and post them for you and I'll show you baseless okay? peace bro.

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The vast majority of people asking for an ingame parser have experience with at least some endgame material (X primals, coil, alex savage) and know how much of a benefit it can be. It helps immensely in any fight that has a hard DPS check involved. I mean, I've landed in Duty Finder groups that can't even make the DPS check on Faust in A1 normal. Currently, the people that are having problems with low DPS (whatever the reason may be, low gear, bad rotation, not paying attention, etc) either get kicked without telling them why or the group just disbands. How does that help them? Making the DPS information available ingame would give some solid, tangible data for people to show them to prove that they need to improve if they want to get anywhere.

Not to mention it could give you a baseline of what your DPS should be. If you go into a dungeon as a monk and you're doing 300 DPS but the other monk is doing 1200, you know it's either time to upgrade some gear or go research your rotation. Nobody's saying that having low DPS is free license to treat other players like shit, but there's a point at which you have to stop molly-coddling them. There's much nicer ways to break to someone that their DPS is subpar than cursing at them or telling them to "gitgud" (neither of which are constructive). We can help each other get better at the game and still be civil to each other.

If people that are underperforming think they're doing fine and nobody tells them otherwise, they'll never know that they aren't. If they don't know that they're coming in subpar, how are they supposed to go about improving?