Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

Speaking of which, I can't remember if it's the last boss of aery or sohm al that had the pulsing meteor move. The one that is similar to rhytatin and ultima hard? You get a marker over your head. You run it to a corner, marker disappears and the spot you ran to starts pulsing (huge pulse) and eventually it'll hit that spot and deal damage to you based on your proximity. I want to say sohm al's boss but I've been getting both those 2 over the week a couple times leveling my warrior and I can't remember.

Anyway. Isn't that supposed to only mark 2 people? I think the fight went on for too long that the boss 'enrages' to start marking three people. I'm 100% sure I'm not seeing things and I saw 3 marks and 3 pulses since the 3rd one was mine. Kinda had me worrying that the boss would eventually pull a real wipe move on us cause it was already taking forever to get there.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Oh no, I care about it all the time. Even in dungeons. I care about the dps when I have 2 melees who chose to single target different targets in vault and I'm aoeing 4 targets and a snapshot of the mob hps are like 80, 80, 60, 60%. That's is terribly depressing (If you're confused, you may have low dps). I have played arr since launch and I'm tired of the abuse or no response when I either provide advice or instructions so my options are either leaving or staying and enduring it. Both are punishments.

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Perhaps I should rephrase it, then: I've never seen anyone care to the point of saying anything to the DPS in question about it, much less harassing them. Stuff like what you've described is irritating, but if things are still going down relatively quickly, the majority of players I've encountered don't really seem to be bothered.

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Make that two of us! And I refuse to allow myself to be carried like a useless mannikin through content because it's not fair to the party.


Can we have a whole community like Breathless, please?

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Nobody I know will fault a player for playing less than optimally.

I think the main complaint is focused at those players who clearly don't care about their dps.

People who are doing less than the tank in their aggro stance. People who have the i180 weapon and are somehow managing to only do 500.
Just yesterday I had a monk in my group in Bex somehow managing to do 350 dps with nearly full 180 gear.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

I have never, ever seen anyone care about DPS output in a dungeon unless it was causing actual issues (the healer going OOM trying to keep the tank alive because things were dying too slowly). I'm sure it happens occasionally, but it is not a common thing at all.

People don't even care about DPS in story mode trials unless, again, it is causing problems. The only time I've seen people raise it as an issue is in things like EX Primals and Coil, where doing optimum DPS usually DOES matter. And, quite frankly, you shouldn't even be attempting the hardest tier of content until you are at least competent at your job to begin with.

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People care bunches. I had folks complain about my dps twice today after...never having anyone complain ever. One did so politely the other was quite rude. We weren't even having trouble.

That's what made me scream in black out rage at the target dummy for half an hour but honestly you can't fix stupid. Stupid is me.

I'm stupid.

...What game is this again? Maple Story or...something?

Anyway the whole experience made me WANT a meter more than anything rather than the opposite.

A bard doing 250 dps in the vault is just sad, that bard was paired with a nin dps that did 300 and no more than 300. The MT was top dps. This isn't even about clearing the dungeon on a very slow pace anymore, this is about not being able to clear the dungeon altogether. That group couldn't clear the second boss and I honestly got stuck in there because of it. I couldn't even dps as a healer and kept running out of mana because they were eating so much damage from avoidable aoes, not to mention how nothing dies fast enough on regular trash pulls, it was very miserable......This is definitely considered grieving in my books.

DPS when they finally meet the damage check - Link

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Originally Posted by Bloodhawk

A think a reasonable solution would be to implement some kind of system like Proving Grounds in World of Warcraft, albeit more strict. Something along the lines of "You cannot participate in X content as Y class until you can complete this challenge as Y class." The challenge would obviously have to be designed specially for every class. Not only would this help weed out bad DPS, but bad tanks and healers too if executed correctly.

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The only thing we need from WoW is a DISLIKE button for posts such as this.

The Proving Grounds were not a terrible idea but they were implemented pretty badly. Certain classes just had a much, much easier time of it than others. As a hunter it was easy, as a mage with not much mobility (compared to hunter) it was tricky, as a class with no reliable interrupt it was miserable.

A Proving Ground would have to be catered to each class if we wanted something similar here. It MIGHT not be an awful idea but...honestly PG didn't stave off the lazy players in WoW either. They got it then went back to being lazy.

A friend of mine ended up in Dusk Vigil yesterday with two players (tank and healer) in several pieces of artifact gear. Not Esoterics gear. Honest to God level 45-50 artifact gear, and i55 weapons. The healer ran OOM on small trash packs and the tank couldn't hold hate at all. There really needs to be a minimum item level on the Heavensward dungeons with i115-i130 gear so readily available. Apparently the fourth player in the party confronted the two low-geared players about it and the healer said that she only had 3k to her name. I have no idea what she could possibly have done with her money, cause last time I checked the MSQ dumped around half a mil on you by the time you reach level 50. It still makes no sense to me to queue in that kind of gear.

According to him, the two of them basically had the attitude that they should be allowed to play the game however they wanted, and they didn't see how having level 45-50 gear was a problem at all. He felt like he was stuck because it was two of them, but we explained that if since the person up for vote doesn't have a vote themselves, two is a majority and therefore he and the other DPS could remove them. The tank ragequit before he had to use up his vote kick and the healer followed. Sadly, both of these players had one class at level 60 already.

It just goes to show you that there's clueless people in every role, I guess. :/

We have a PS4 BLM in our FC who's at about iLv 186 and does about 550dps raid buffed on stationary targets without mechanics. With mechanics, the BLM does about 300dps. We don't complain and we don't say anything about it, as there's only 3 or 4 of us using parsers in the FC and we're a social FC anyway. We try to carry the BLM through whatever content we could. The BLM player is also more focused on glamour, leveling classes, housing and stuff.

We normally have no trouble doing Ex-Roulettes but it sometimes can be painful when you are spending almost twice as much time on boss fights when that BLM drops down to sub-300 dps.

It would be a service to everybody if an official parser is implemented.

The first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge that there is a problem. A parser is the best tool for that first step.

we have dummy targets for a reason ....find it !!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by fireslash

we have dummy targets for a reason ....find it !!!!!!!!!!!

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I as BLM can do around 1k+ average on a dummy (I've checked). Any fight that makes me move (IE all of them) will lower that. Considerably if it is very movement heavy and/or I'm new.

The dummies are welcome but they're a poor stand in for an actual encounter.

I do think the job quests (or perhaps some new type of training with decent rewards) should do more to teach players about their skills and when to pop what. As amusing as it is to out-DPS everything with my WAR, it's hardly helping anyone or anything but my own ego.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Speaking of which, I can't remember if it's the last boss of aery or sohm al that had the pulsing meteor move. The one that is similar to rhytatin and ultima hard? You get a marker over your head. You run it to a corner, marker disappears and the spot you ran to starts pulsing (huge pulse) and eventually it'll hit that spot and deal damage to you based on your proximity. I want to say sohm al's boss but I've been getting both those 2 over the week a couple times leveling my warrior and I can't remember.

Anyway. Isn't that supposed to only mark 2 people? I think the fight went on for too long that the boss 'enrages' to start marking three people. I'm 100% sure I'm not seeing things and I saw 3 marks and 3 pulses since the 3rd one was mine. Kinda had me worrying that the boss would eventually pull a real wipe move on us cause it was already taking forever to get there.

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Always marks three after wings.

Oh, it's your usual tanking master race here. Equally as often, you'll find a Paladin that Off-Tanks in Shield Oath. Or plays heavily outdated content with Fending equipment. There's bad players on all classes.

What is your proposition to fix the problem? Having parsers available, personal at least, would be a good start. Problem is, the majority of the playerbase seems to shun the idea of having even a personal parser, brushing it off as a tool to harass them for poor performances.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I as BLM can do around 1k+ average on a dummy (I've checked). Any fight that makes me move (IE all of them) will lower that. Considerably if it is very movement heavy and/or I'm new.

The dummies are welcome but they're a poor stand in for an actual encounter.

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Dummies don't need to replicate an encounter when trying to practice (or figure out) basic dps rotation.

People can get a baseline of their dps, then see if they can experiment with their rotation to get better damage while standing still. When people have gotten used to their rotation, then (if they want) can practice moving around while doing that rotation. Yes, you can move around and pretend you're avoiding aoe while practicing on a dummy and practice until your rotation has been engrained into muscle memory so you can perform it in harsher conditions like aoe dancing in real encounters.

But, i would endorse the suggestion of having a "personal trainer" that gives non-numerical feedback on their performance for their role. For dps, there could be an npc next to a dummy that will tell you "you're technique (rotation/dps) is terrible" or "better than average", "excellent! You're better than most." etc

That way, you can get better without turning the game into a math simulator.

The real problem though, and i see this with any of the roles not just dps, is that there's enough people who don't seem to care about playing as a team...as in having a team mentality where you perform your part as a cog in a machine to the best of your ability. But too often i see people queuing in df and acting as if they're soloing with an audience.

Things like, range dps staying near healer aoe range to help them maximize their healing, healers not positioning to keep melee and others within their aoe healing range. DPS/healers who run around like in a panic when they aggro or staying way in the back after aggroing and forcing tanks to go after them (dragging mobs and bossing) as they chase after them instead of helping out the tank and bringing the adds to them. Or tanks not pulling adds that they could pull so the dps/healers so they could concentrate on their job etc.

I don't know if this is a western thing or a "first mmo" type of thing but i keep seeing this in random groups too often where people appear as if they don't want to be in a group but they're forced to so like anyone who doesn't like their real-world job would do, they half-a$$ it.

People need to read and understand their skills and figure out how to use them properly in situations and not just press random buttons. There's enough in the UI and in-game things to get people through almost all the content without dipping into external tools (forum guides exempted). I highly doubt this anti-team attitude towards gaming here would be fixed with a parser or the personal trainer suggestion was made available.

Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Maybe i've gotten jaded but if there's something like a role check quest to unlock extreme/savage modes, then i think instead of spurring people into getting better, they would just get frustrated and leave...or wait for the content nerf.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

People care bunches. I had folks complain about my dps twice today after...never having anyone complain ever. One did so politely the other was quite rude. We weren't even having trouble.

That's what made me scream in black out rage at the target dummy for half an hour but honestly you can't fix stupid. Stupid is me.

I'm stupid.

...What game is this again? Maple Story or...something?

Anyway the whole experience made me WANT a meter more than anything rather than the opposite.

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Ive seen df parties that went as fast as a speed run and people were still complaining about the dps.

I have been a avid MMO player with my First MMO being FFXI back when it first released followed by WoW for 11+ years. It's not the parsers you need to worry about it's the people reading them. Does anyone remember gearcheck in WoW? How people set ungodly high standards that prevented new players from joining? Let's face it and be honest with ourselves here. We are a bunch of self loathing assholes that the community would set a high standard barring new players from accessing new content. "Bard most do 1400 DPS" Just because you can does not mean everyone can. SE has designed the game and I am sure they factored in that somewhere along the line there may be weaker players then yourself.

My verdict? Hell no on parses because the community is no way shape or form mature enough to use them correctly.

I really wouldn't mind a total damage dealt/healed or general statistic seen in PvP....maybe make it so that you'll only know yours and not your perty members

That way you'll know how you did AFTER beating the trial/instance

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Ive seen df parties that went as fast as a speed run and people were still complaining about the dps.

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Yeah. In one DF Alexander party (Floor 3), myself (BLM) and the SMN were told to step up our game, as the WAR had apparently out DPS'd us (Deliverance and most likely decked in STR everything). What's weird about this is that we beat the boss without it even changing into the hand form a second time. Our DPS was way above average, yet we still got criticised. I'm no slacker, but I will lose DPS if a boss forces me to move, which will more than likely screw up my rotation (especially if it's making me move when I have to cast Fire to refresh Astral or Blizzard IV).

Let's bring back the true job competent test at 50 like the matt fight in ffxi

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Originally Posted by Noira

My only gripe is when people tell me my dps is low, like okay, but so what ?

Okay my dps is low but like do you know someone you can recommend to me or like good guides and stuff or tips don't just say it's bad because you're just gonna piss me off.

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Have you heard of 'google'? Pretty nice website.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

I have been a avid MMO player with my First MMO being FFXI back when it first released followed by WoW for 11+ years. It's not the parsers you need to worry about it's the people reading them. Does anyone remember gearcheck in WoW? How people set ungodly high standards that prevented new players from joining? Let's face it and be honest with ourselves here. We are a bunch of self loathing assholes that the community would set a high standard barring new players from accessing new content. "Bard most do 1400 DPS" Just because you can does not mean everyone can. SE has designed the game and I am sure they factored in that somewhere along the line there may be weaker players then yourself.

My verdict? Hell no on parses because the community is no way shape or form mature enough to use them correctly.

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Hear Hear my lady ...you deserve far more then my "like"
You are spot on!

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Originally Posted by Elazu

Have you heard of 'google'? Pretty nice website.

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Nonsense if the can find general in the forums and qq here they can find the dps section of the forums. No Google needed

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Originally Posted by Delsai

My verdict? Hell no on parses because the community is no way shape or form mature enough to use them correctly.

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I agree that there needs to be a higher degree of maturity before a parser would be successful. However, I don't think the lack of maturity only lies with those who abuse parses to harass others. I also think that there are far too many people unwilling to take responsibility for themselves and their performance. When you play an MMO and interact with other people, you affect their game play experience, not just your own. There are too many players willing to play victim and avoid a parser rather than improving their own performance. DPS checks are a real thing, so whether you accept it or not, the truth is that you could very well be holding others back.

Players need to realize that while they may feel special because they pay a subscription, they aren't any more special than everyone else playing who also pays a subscription. Accepting that you play poorly and disregarding the way that you can affect another person's game play experience is a worse attitude than so-called Elitists who expect you to provide a certain degree of performance.

I think there are plenty of people on the community who don't expect "the best" all of the time, but they do expect you to at least play your job effectively and not be a burden on others. That is where parsers can really shine as they are an excellent self-help tool to identify opportunities for improvement. It's just a shame that they are instead viewed as a tool designed for harassment.

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Originally Posted by Elazu

Have you heard of 'google'? Pretty nice website.

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Being resourceful is an underrated quality that an unfortunate amount of players seem to lack. In my opinion, it again shows that players are unable to take responsibility for themselves.

Saying things like

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noira

My only gripe is when people tell me my dps is low, like okay, but so what ?

Okay my dps is low but like do you know someone you can recommend to me or like good guides and stuff or tips don't just say it's bad because you're just gonna piss me off

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is just silly to me. It's always someone else's fault.

Personally I think that the job quests and guildleves are doing a good job at teaching people how to play. Also, the abilities descriptions are generally self explanatory. A person with common sense and the actual will to play optimally will do a decent job unless he's physically unable to push buttons and dodge stuff proprely. There will always be people like that, and forcing them into a complex tutorial or parser shaming isn't a solution. They either don't care, or they simply can't, as many stated.

The way I see it is, I should work toward making friends and teaming up with people that are good players and play inside that circle.

I can always chose who I team with, and remember that duty roulette bonuses are just that, bonuses. They're incentives to make the system work, the system that makes you team up with bad players, the ones that couldn't find friends to play with... because, well, they're bad, so bad that it makes us go on forum to ask SE to do something about it.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Exactly. People have a right to suck. They pay just like everybody else. There is no reason to remove them from a duty.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA

Fantastic idea. Let's lock players out of content they've paid for until they get good like the players of raid lore. Screw your lag, time constraints, disabilities and whatever else, this is FFXIV and this is a game about making sure your paycheck ensures 'my' entertainment, not accessibility.

Someone pitch this amazing business model to SE asap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Fantastic idea. Let's lock players out of content they've paid for until they get good like the players of raid lore. Screw your lag, time constraints, disabilities and whatever else, this is FFXIV and this is a game about making sure your paycheck ensures 'my' entertainment, not accessibility.

Someone pitch this amazing business model to SE asap.

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If the game is too hard for you to even out-dps a shield oath tank then maybe it's time to find a new game to play? Instead of wasting everyone elses time.

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Originally Posted by Totobi

If the game is too hard for you to even out-dps a shield oath tank then maybe it's time to find a new game to play? Instead of wasting everyone elses time.

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What an utterly situational thought. Was the tank out gearing the DPS? Was the player having a bad day? Distracted? Keyboard/controller screw up? New class perhaps?

I think someone had a bad run and got a little upset. Maybe you should find a new game if this one is too accessible to casuals for you. I hear LoL is always looking for more people.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

What an utterly situational thought. Was the tank out gearing the DPS? Was the player having a bad day? Distracted? Keyboard/controller screw up? New class perhaps?

I think someone had a bad run and got a little upset. Maybe you should find a new game if this one is too accessible to casuals for you. I hear LoL is always looking for more people.

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You didnt get it, one thing is having lag or a bad day. But orther thing is not doing damage at all, not doing rotations or combos, not using coldowns or buffs. A dps that use the same skill over and over again with a damage dealt of 100 at Lv60 with a high gear of ilvl 160 - 190. Yes that is a terrible dps.

He is not saing that you are

Then just don't party with them? You blame a community and a game on a player or two?

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Then just don't party with them? You blame a community and a game on a player or two?

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We don't. And then this leads to people crying, whining and moaning on the forums about the "elitism" that occurs when somebody is doing sub 400 dps in full i180.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Then just don't party with them? You blame a community and a game on a player or two?

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Right, either you're ignorant or you're just being hypocritic, you DO need to "git gud" at the game to enjoy the content, for example, Bismarck in story mode, or Ravana.

I got wiped like thrice because people were doing subpar dps leading to wipe.

Even if the tank DOES outgear them, there's this nifty little thing called "Level sync", yes, their stats might be still high even synced, but the difference shouldn't be that much.

Moral of the story is, yes, you do need git gud. And not doing sub-par DPS as a DPS is the first step to it.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Then just don't party with them? You blame a community and a game on a player or two?

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Oh, trust me. I'd glady NEVER party with them. Sadly i don't control who i get in the duty finder though.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KBb7QDM8US...zerthread1.jpg


￣＼（−＿−）／￣

TLDR: "Don't use Duty Finder because it's like playing russian roulette." Sometimes you'll get lucky and things will go smoothly, other times you'll wish you had gotten that bullet.

Learn how to make friends, play with said friends, don't use duty finder.

Did I just solve the thread?

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Learn how to make friends, play with said friends, don't use duty finder.

Did I just solve the thread?

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If only it were as easy as that, right?

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Originally Posted by Kerii

If only it were as easy as that, right?

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Sadly some son of... Get lucky and get a group of ppl that log in around their time and want to pt with them all the time. Adventica6 is very lucky indeed.