Who here is also burned out from farming?

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Originally Posted by DarkRain

All FFXIV is . Is a gear grinding game. You grind the best gear to have it replaced in 6 months . Thats all it is . I so wish that the gear ment something like in 11. There were BiS pieces that were like Lv.20 and you are LV.75 before Abyssa. You found or poped high level monsters in hopes for the gear. I have seen what 5 different sones for gear now each being replaced by the new. It gets really old really fast

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I'd rather get new gear regularly than go back to FFXI's system where you'd get a new piece of gear twice per year if you were lucky. Rest of the time you were grinding for absolutely nothing just because you needed to keep your attendance up. A level 20 gear being BiS at 75 isn't proof that FFXI's system was good, quite the contrary.

FFXIV has problems, but getting new gear regularly certainly isn't it.

Gilthas: its Yoshi Ps way of giving out gears too fast. You barely get to enjoy what you have due to how fast you get some things and some things become so useless. Same goes for the relic. Also how the content doesnt have alot of backthought to it. Its more rushing out material instead of putting deeper thought. Simple this game goes to fast you cant enjoy your gear alot before its outdated and useless and thats not the way to go. I enjoyed my relics for tops 4 months thats lame. All that grind for 4 months? really?

Four months is too little time? How long exactly do you want to go on without getting new gear?

Like I already mentioned, in FFXI we got an upgrade to one of our equipment slots twice per year if we were lucky. That was complete crap and I only endured it for 3 years because I didn't know any better.

Were relics a lot of work? Certainly. I personally hated the steps that shoved the market board down your throat. But my relic didn't last only 4 months, that was just Zeta.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

You speak of getting an upgrade twice a year - but that's because it takes you at least that long to actually acquire the equipment.

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It's hilarious that you actually think this is a good thing.

Like I mentioned already, I endured that crap for 3 years because I didn't know any better.

Gilthas: Then you already now this is a slap to the face from Yoshi P and SE a total disrespect to everyone that dedicated so much time to get them.

Eh. Getting new gear so often would not be bad in itself........

But on one hand, it's gear that replaces gear that you barely even obtained. It's gear that replaces gear you have not even obtained yet - see Alex vs Eso. And this is only when you're actually able to be keeping up with the current endgame stuff.

On the other hand though, how often is a new piece of gear nothing more than a simple redye of stuffs we've already had? Since green/blue items can't normally be dyed. How often is a new piece of gear nothing more than yet another version of the same model again?

A more horizontal approach surely wouldn't hurt. Especially in a game with a "be all on one character" system at its core.

More gear for just glamour would also be nice - if the glamour system wasn't as awful and broken and restrictive as it is. And they don't seem to want to do anything about that either.

So your solution is what? No more gear upgrades like FFXI? Thanks but no thanks.

The best you can hope for is that our Zetas will give us an advantage in the first step of the new relic quest.

BreathlessTao: how can we get him to listen then? its just casual friendly right now almost to a point where Yoshi P assumes everyone cant play this game on a more hardcore pace. Not saying everyone should do savage but everything else.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Gilthas: Then you already now this is a slap to the face from Yoshi P and SE a total disrespect to everyone that dedicated so much time to get them.

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It isn't a total disrespect at all to anyone. Getting gear is easy, time dedication to get any gear or gear up literally takes 10 hours at most to i180, then you are time gated for the i190 gear because of the weekly lockouts which you can spend 4-5 hours getting your tokens for the drops for the week. That i190 gear will have its uses until you ramp up into full esoterics/210 gear from savage which is time gated or locked behind the hardest raid for the current patch.

At most your gear will last you 6 months, which is plenty of time for you to use it.

The fact that their is always gear for you to upgrade to and you are complaining about it is idiotic.

I've said this in a bunch of other threads and I'll say it again here: the burnout problem is being caused by a lack of new gameplay systems.

In most other MMOs expansions usually introduce some new form of content that is very different to what came before. Expansions don't usually just expand on the base content but they also expand on the base gameplay systems to give players fresh things to do that don't feel like anything they played so far in the game.

Unfortunately we got no such new gameplay systems in Heavensward and so people are burning out mostly because, despite the environments being different, we are still essentially doing exactly the same things as we were doing prior to the expansion. Once players clear the 50-60 MSQ they end up falling back into exactly the same routine as they had in 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5... We run roulettes for tomes, farm a few primals, maybe run a raid and get locked out.

Everything looks different and the numbers are higher, but the reality is that nothing has changed. That is why people are burning out; they're still stuck doing the exact same things they've done for the past two years!

I'm sick of it. I want something fun that lasts. Unfortunately that won't come at all it seems. PvP is a nice fix to that if they didn't remove the rank restriction for things. Little to no incentive to do any content when I'll get those items for free in a years time.

Hell, you can go through your inventory and give each piece of gear a timestamp of when it mattered. Sure most of it doesn't matter anymore right? FFXIV = paycheck to paycheck

If everyone at endgame would stick with the same gear for at least 6 months, then everyone would obtain a Fenrir mount from the MGP for time spent at the Gold Saucer, which should be fun: didn't even had the time to try it out yet, too busy trying to catch up and complete all these futile side quests.. :(

I'm all with you, I cannot catch up for now being down to a casual state (wasn't this game supposed to be for Casuals? sigh.. )

I'm hoping to be iLvl 130 yay!!!! <-- not >.<

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

I'm all with you, I cannot catch up for now being down to a casual state (wasn't this game supposed to be for Casuals? sigh.. )

I'm hoping to be iLvl 130 yay!!!! <-- not >.<

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This game is very casual. I think the problem lies more on the lines that people feel they must do everything within a certain time frame, i.e cap this, cap that so forth and so forth. This game pretty much hands you loot on a silver platter, and just about everything else.

Speaking generally, if people are feeling burnt out- thats a red flag that people are spending too much time on the game. There are alot of things to do in game, people get stuck in the whole mentality "I must do this in said time" or Ill be behind. Ppl rush the game and they get burnt out, and somehow its SE fault o.O

Nonetheless alot of the comments in this thread I agree with

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Like I already mentioned, in FFXI we got an upgrade to one of our equipment slots twice per year if we were lucky.

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FFXI may have had infrequent upgrades, but that was largely because they didn't NEED to be frequent. You speak of getting an upgrade twice a year - but that's because it takes you at least that long to actually acquire the equipment.

Dynamis gear was top-of-the-line for a long time. Why? Because specific pieces of gear dropped literally twice per year or less at times, even spamming Dynamis at every opportunity. Eventually, Dynamis gear was supplanted - at least some pieces - by Salvage gear, which required a similar level of dedication to acquire.

The point is, in FFXI, you had good equipment relatively easy to acquire. Then you had elite equipment which required months or even years of grinding to acquire. In fact, you usually needed to collect several pieces of elite gear per equipment slot, because there were very few equipment slots where a single piece of gear was best all around. You'd need a piece for doing weaponskills, a piece for regular auto-attacks, a piece for casting spells, and you'd swap between these pieces as needed during combat.

It was damn rare that anyone in FFXI would grind for months for absolutely nothing. The level cap was at 75 for most of FFXI's life, and there was always something else to try to get. At best, a handful of players could ever claim that they had optimized equipment for every situation - and even those who COULD claim that, it was generally only for one job. There were twenty-one other jobs to gear up, if they still wanted something to strive for.

One of the biggest problems I hear constantly on the FFXIV forums is that there's nothing to do. Every class has one specific set of gear to strive for at any given time, and compared to drop rates in FFXI, this gear is practically tossed into your lap. Once folks get Alexander Savage on farm mode, you'll be hearing the same song; Alex has the best gear, so there's nothing else to do with your week once you've gotten your weekly drop. Whatever else you say about FFXI, this was not a problem, there. Once you worked for months to get your specific gear slot drop, all that meant was it was time to do another activity which dropped a different piece of gear for the same slot, to be used in some other situation.

FFXI's horizontal progression system is likely impossible in FFXIV unless the game gets a significant overhaul. The presence of primary stats on every piece of gear, along with the ability to change equipment while in combat, pretty much ensures that. But FFXI showed very clearly that a game can still have a lot to offer even when it sits at a single level cap for the better part of a decade. A constant deluge of the same gear again and again, a little bit more powerful every month, is not the only way.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

This game is very casual. [snip] Nonetheless alot of the comments in this thread I agree with

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Trust me, I'm playing since launch of 2.0, I was playing 30 hours per week. now when I have one hour per day, like 3 days per week, it's a miracle.

that said, when you need 90 mins on a dungeon, you have to make sure you have the best buddies with you, otherwise if the other 3 fail to complete and want to vote abandon, I just don't have enough time to try it again on the same day.

Lucky for me, I catched on pretty quickly that you must be a Tank in order to get into stuff very quickly.

Still, I Miss my Summoner.. and my raid group, which is a no-no if you cannot catch up gear-wise and understanding the mechanics to clear one trial.

If you have only 1 hour per day, and the Raid ask you for 1 hour, you can't do much more in other areas of this wonderful game.

So.. Casual.. to an extent.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

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Well, the game is designed for a casual player to easily get into and easily get out of, considering time blocks where they only have, like yourself, 1 hour a day. XIV out of the entire MMO library has been one of the most casual friendly games ever implemented.

However, if you *only* have 1 hour a day, you can only accomplish so much in a genre of video games designed to be time sinks. That isn't a fault of the game's design.

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Originally Posted by DreameR7g

Well, the game is designed for a casual player to easily get into and easily get out of, considering time blocks where they only have, like yourself, 1 hour a day. XIV out of the entire MMO library has been one of the most casual friendly games ever

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To log in and run around, do fates or gather mats yes it is but to actually accomplish anything in relation to raids or dungeons then no it isn't without dedicating and/or scheduling time for it.

I'm happy to see that many agree with me. I can guarantee you guys the japanese players on the JP forums feel the same. Again no one wants a new FFXI we just wanted what was good about FFXI and use it here. Vertical progression is destroying this amazing game. Yoshi P did an amazing job but went too much WoW and just catering to a casual market that will jump MMORPGs due to hype and nothing else. Its not even a loyal customer group.

Alberel; How do we get Yoshi P and the Dev team to listen then? giving hardcore players alex savage isnt doing anyone a favour when everything else is the same.

I'm not, because I don't treat it like a job. I run what I want to run, and if I cap, great. If not, who cares? There's no rush to gear up unless you're doing Savage. Having the best gear isn't necessary for any content in the game; it's solely for bragging rights.

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Originally Posted by SkizzleofRagnarok

Alberel; How do we get Yoshi P and the Dev team to listen then? giving hardcore players alex savage isnt doing anyone a favour when everything else is the same.

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Well to be fair Alex Savage isn't much different to Coil so even that is just more of the same in terms of gameplay and routine.

One thing that SE has proven good at is adding in major new systems with patches though, so I'm currently holding out for something new in 3.1. If I'm honest though just solving the housing problem and making it available to everyone would be something 'new' for most players.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

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30 - 40 minutes for a dungeon beats the hell out of having to schedule a block of 3 hours to have to do anything. (FFXI Leveling parties in a nut shell).

This game IS more casual but you can't escape from the MMO game design. If it wasn't grindy or time consuming, it wouldn't be an MMO.

I just got into pvp, and started leveling my botanist. I think its just finding something new you haven't done yet in the game.

Before the expansion came out I had nothing I wanted to do in game, I had levelled the classes I wanted, gotten gear to last me into HW and was failing at raiding (T.T). The grind was there with no real end goal and I was getting tired of FFXIV. I then started working on my relic and pony farming, whilst tracking progress on a spreadsheet and worked towards a new end goal, was the most fun I had for months.
I understand that this game can be a grind but it's about filling in the gaps with something else and doing different things that make it fun again.
With that said, I'm back into grind mode and getting really bored again in HW.

Literally since the new tomes were released I have only made enough to get one accessory and I really don't care to be honest.

Not necessarily burnt, really. I PVP most of the time I log on. But that's because I really like Frontlines. Grinding for tomes are a bonus to me and most often I forget I was being rewarded with Tomes until I see that I can't earn any more.

Dungeons and Trials are all predictable once you figure out the mechanics. Granted, some people really like repetition. You can't predict what an opposing player might do to you. Frontlines does a great job keeping you, your party, and your company on everyone's toes due to RNG. I like it.

I often look for other avenues to find some fun while grinding. As it turns out for me, PVP was the better choice.

Also, I wish people would stop thinking like it's some kind of chore to do.

Burned by farming? STOP farming.

Burned out because you 60'd everything and cap everything in a day or two? Stop playing the game like it's a job that you must complete as efficiently as possible. Start an alt that you play for fun, dont farm anything, chat with friends, do the side quests, read the text, smell the roses...

In short player burnout is the fault of the player, not the game design. Change the way you play, actually 'play' and have fun. Thats what games are for. If it's not fun, then you're better off doing something else.

Reduce your playing tIme, step off the gear escalator, play another game two or three days a week, break the cycle, and have fun again.

Sound advice this: play the game (every game) as a game, not as an unpaid job.

I think the biggest issue is people why there are limited things to do. When most games launch an expansion there tends to be a whole mess of things to get lost in for at least a few weeks. However, with a game like FFXIV expansions are less a giant package of content and more gateways to future content. That's why unlike many games that launch expansions FFXIV continues to get patch after patch. So because of this people went into Heavensward thinking there would be a metric ton of content and instead wound up with the tip of the iceberg we'll be getting over the course of the next few months. Honestly, unless you're planning on aiming for world/server firsts you're better off unsubbing and waiting until more collective content is published. A lot of people are fine with the current pacing of the game and are taking it one thing at a time. It's the instant gratification crowd or the hardcore dedicated crowd that seem to have the most issues with current pacing and only the hardcore crowd benefits from rushing due to afformentioned attempts at firsts.

Tl;dr If there's not enough to do, unsub and wait for more.

I guess I just don't think about it as a big grind fest. I think about it as upgrading my class little by little. I don't know about you guys but when I got my WHM eso weapon tonight, I felt a sense of accomplishment about it. I don't treat it as some kind of chore because if it was then I wouldn't do it. It ruins the game for me. My past mmo Tera was a HUUUGE grind fest for me so coming over from that game makes it a whole lot better.