Recipe changes in 1.19

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

/scatters off to make use of all the old components before it's too late

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Exactly what i've been doing for the past two weeks! Lol.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ignorance. every craft costs millions now to actually grind out unless you have a shard bot that constantly supplies you with hundreds of thousands of shards. it was already an expensive journey and took time before.



can you explain one single change that is going to alleviate this? even finished gear now will be just standard bash to completion.

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No I cant. I do not agree with the upcoming changes and I do not think they are a positive move. I dont see this alleviating the old "spam standard til your fingers bleed".

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

HiirNoivl makes a valid point.

With the current crafting system, we're mostly grind crafting SP, NPC'ing them, and not introducing items to the market.

New players who want to focus on adventuring get screwed, because they can't find affordable items in the wards. They usually get our hand-me downs.

The trade-off for more costly base materials is a swifter, less costly, less cumbersome creation of the end product.

Maybe less SP, maybe more SP, but the goal was to get items into the market, perhaps at more affordable prices. And I'm definitely for that, especially if it increases the longevity of this game.

...

/scatters off to make use of all the old components before it's too late

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once again higher level crafters will still not make low end gear. they will not do so because why the hell would they do so unless that low end gear creates as much profit as high end gear. in other words why would i make a r10 item that sells for 5k when i can make a r50 item that sells for 100k?

low level crafters as they rank up, yes, they will make gear now and take 10x as long to become a higher level crafter as the ones already there did. how many of those r10 cowls do you think they will sell? a few, but the rest will be npc's just like parts did.

making parts grinding i put a stack or 2 of each in my retainer because they stacked to 99 in the retainer and only took up 1 spot. even if that one part only sold for 1k each that's 100k. i would not and will not take up space for a single item that takes up a full retainer spot for 5k. selling yarns, cloth, glue, nuggets, and other parts was about the only way that you could even come anywhere near being able to afford crafting to cap. good luck getting there later.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

No I cant. I do not agree with the upcoming changes and I do not think they are a positive move. I dont see this alleviating the old "spam standard til your fingers bleed".

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I tend to agree somewhat.

On one hand, we lose the high yield base item recipes we have now come 1.19 and also 1.20. We also will be losing all those juicy in-between levels of being able to craft parts for grinding. The loss of vamps are likely to kill ranking LWs.

On the other hand, we'll now spend less time crafting those parts, and have more time to craft end items.

I'm also curious to see if DoH yields per strike are going to increase...if not there's going to be a severe shortage of wood, ore and fish for a good while, despite the fact that the insane array of items possible to be gathered is being trimmed.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

once again higher level crafters will still not make low end gear. they will not do so because why the hell would they do so unless that low end gear creates as much profit as high end gear. in other words why would i make a r10 item that sells for 5k when i can make a r50 item that sells for 100k?

low level crafters as they rank up, yes, they will make gear now and take 10x as long to become a higher level crafter as the ones already there did. how many of those r10 cowls do you think they will sell? a few, but the rest will be npc's just like parts did.

making parts grinding i put a stack or 2 of each in my retainer because they stacked to 99 in the retainer and only took up 1 spot. even if that one part only sold for 1k each that's 100k. i would not and will not take up space for a single item that takes up a full retainer spot for 5k. selling yarns, cloth, glue, nuggets, and other parts was about the only way that you could even come anywhere near being able to afford crafting to cap. good luck getting there later.

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It'll be fine. Many people who grind crafting under the current system, probably don't want to craft anyway. Do not confuse making repairs with crafting.

I'm trying to explain that crafters who are not in it to create items will either have to take off their "grinding goggles" and start making items for people to use or they will quit crafting all together because they don't like it. These changes do not affect dedicated crafters who like making things. The vast majority of players however are not dedicated crafters. The crafting changes makes the class more accessible to people who want to make a few r10 cowls out of the stuff they happen to have and sell them.

We don't know if making SP will be the same or different. However, the senseless non-productive grind is being taken out of crafting.

EDIT: The inventory issue you mentioned may explain the extra space we'll all be getting. :)

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

It'll be fine. Many people who grind crafting under the current system, probably don't want to craft anyway. Do not confuse making repairs with crafting.

I'm trying to explain that crafters who are not in it to create items will either have to take off their "grinding goggles" and start making items for people to use or they will quit crafting all together because they don't like it. These changes do not affect dedicated crafters who like making things. The vast majority of players however are not dedicated crafters. The crafting changes makes the class more accessible to people who want to make a few r10 cowls out of the stuff they happen to have and sell them.

We don't know if making SP will be the same or different. However, the senseless non-productive grind is being taken out of crafting.

EDIT: The inventory issue you mentioned may explain the extra space we'll all be getting. :)

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as a dedicated crafter i will say your entire post is pretty much dead wrong. if you grind a craft you want to craft. if you do not want to craft you do leves only. this post does, in fact, affect crafters that make items to sell. those few poeple that wanted to make a few cowls before and sell them already have which is why the game does have some in them. people no longer make them because there is not enough of a demand due to new players in the game to justify making them anymore.

how does making 500 cowls and selling 5 of those change anything when before you just made 500 squares and sold 100 of those by putting 1 stack up? one way you npc 495 items and the other way you npc 400. it looks like more will be npc'd after the update.

some points are just assumptions, and proven to be wrong,if you look back, how they handled it the whole time,as well as in the 11.
few examples:
"you have to make less items" no,exactly the opposite, you have to craft way more,just to get an equal outcome

"you get more cash out of it" no, exactly the opposite, example shark oil, 2 sharks ,1 oil ..erm hello? if its not worth 4k,its useless

"items give more exp then" ..who got you to think this? former changes,as handled in xiv and xi, never compensated any change with higher exp ratio.

"crafter build now items of use" no, they wont craft more, why would i craft more med range rings,if they sell the same, or even worse? do you realy think,if i can make out of 40 silver ore around 120 needles (before,)and now 15 needles, i can charge people 8 times that much? i dont think so.

"the crafts need less stuff,so its more easy" oh ok,so its more easy as crafter to get hands on dew after they nerfed it to 1/12 of the former outcome? do you really believe that this helps the community? ,btw most products did not need mobdrops in first place, or atleast way less difficult to get, show me one diremite farm,that can be handled by combat lvl1,as sheeps could (and don't point to lvl a fight-class,its not the point if you are crafter),if you still dont get it,make velveteen after the patch.

"it helps the economy" how? crafter get charged by fighters even more,just to reach a higher lvl,because they are forced to spend 5times more crystals to make the same(at least), aswell as have to use way more mobdrops.

"old recipes are going to still work" ..endrecipes yes, but part-recipes not, such as lumber etc..they are simply overwritten

"it helps to clean mule from mats" this point may be true,but mostly because you burn couple times more items,to get equal items out of it.

"tasks are then the way to level" great, guildleve where you get 4/12 hours,its like 30 crafts / 12 hours. hello? thats not an improvement, it would be ,if that 30 crafts give you same exp as 500 items,but they wont,my bet,they wont even give same as before.

"stop crying, all will be ok" thats what some think? sorry, as mainly crafter, i dont think so,and if we dont express our concerns right now, they wont listen, remember what happend after release? and what the fanboys told us before? (dont worry,its still beta) gosh.. we are worried,and express our opinions,even if we know,that SE wont even notice half of what we said,or understand.

"senseless nonproductive grind is taken out" sorry? ,and how could 12times more crafts,for just yarn/lumber/oil/glue be less nonproductive.. even missing words to get any sense into this brain-twisting matter.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/FUC...7df_744460.jpg

i thought that picture would pretty much explain how i feel right now after checking thru that list.
oh boy i can't wait for the patch, gotta craft me some new cobalt armor and finish lvling goldsmith and leatherworker.

Did SE forget to post the Culinarian recipe changes? they are not in this list:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post359238

Dark, You're not grounding your explanations in reality.

The truth is when I first started crafting I did make things and I ranked up at the same time.

Cotton Cowls got me through my first ranks as weaver. Rings, circlets and chokers got me up to r15ish goldsmith in no time. I never made 500 of anything.

However all that started breaking down once I got higher, because of the sheer amount of parts that I couldn't make because my rank wasn't high enough or that I didn't have access to the materials. I had hit the point where grinding uselessly was necessary to rank up because crafting, actually making things, was no longer possible!

Had I been ABLE I would have still made things and ranked up. I'm glad they've begun to fix this problem.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Dark, You're not grounding your explanations in reality.

The truth is when I first started crafting I did make things and I ranked up at the same time.

Cotton Cowls got me through my first ranks as weaver. Rings, circlets and chokers got me up to r15ish goldsmith in no time. I never made 500 of anything.

However all that started breaking down once I got higher, because of the sheer amount of parts that I couldn't make because my rank wasn't high enough or that I didn't have access to the materials. I had hit the point where grinding uselessly was necessary to rank up because crafting, actually making things, was no longer possible!

Had I been ABLE I would have still made things and ranked up. I'm glad they've begun to fix this problem.

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you never made 500s of anything because you simply haven't gotten to the ranks where that happens.

you prefer to rank up using finished items, that's not very practical in the current/old system. You may be able to do so in the new system, but the question is whether that will be comparable to the parts-grind that exist in the current system for people who doesn't have a strange attachment to making finished item to rank crafting.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Dark, You're not grounding your explanations in reality.

The truth is when I first started crafting I did make things and I ranked up at the same time.

Cotton Cowls got me through my first ranks as weaver. Rings, circlets and chokers got me up to r15ish goldsmith in no time. I never made 500 of anything.

However all that started breaking down once I got higher, because of the sheer amount of parts that I couldn't make because my rank wasn't high enough or that I didn't have access to the materials. I had hit the point where grinding uselessly was necessary to rank up because crafting, actually making things, was no longer possible!

Had I been ABLE I would have still made things and ranked up. I'm glad they've begun to fix this problem.

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you are who is not grounded in reality. 12>1 so if it takes you 12 synths to make the same amount of an item that one synth did before that's 12x as long. what part of that is so hard to understand. my 6 year old can figure that out for christ sakes.

you can fabircate all you want, but i have made items the entire time i was crafting. there has never been a point in which i could not make items.

here i'll take the line battle classes love to use for not liking the new battle system "YOU WERE JUST PLAYING IT WORNG"

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

you never made 500s of anything because you simply haven't gotten to the ranks where that happens.

you prefer to rank up using finished items, that's not very practical in the current/old system. You may be able to do so in the new system, but the question is whether that will be comparable to the parts-grind that exist in the current system for people who doesn't have a strange attachment to making finished item to rank crafting.

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making finished items to rank crafting is just as intelligent to saying i want to go grind nm's to rank my battle class. grinding parts for crafting is absolutely no different than grinding mobs to rank a battleclass. there is no difference, but these anti crafting people are actually destroying a good system. yes, the system needed improvements, but this is pathetic.

You can actually rank up Goldsmith from rank 13 to 20 atm just making Brass Earrings. At rank 13 they're pretty tough to make but can give up to 900sp EACH (Which is completely nuts!), if it starts slowing down around rank 17 you can make Brass rings which give a little bit more SP than Brass earrings at that rank.

Not bad for something that only needs 2 brass nuggets, and the off-chance of making a +1 version helps compliment your own equipment if your battle class is around the same level ;)

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

Yoshida has said that he has plans for Alchemists and Culinarians, but it won't be until after 1.19.

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This is just so uncool. Lets wait on cooks who need a million mats to make anything and make the least profit. Yeah I get it.

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Originally Posted by Orcishgrappler

This is just so uncool. Lets wait on cooks who need a million mats to make anything and make the least profit. Yeah I get it.

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Should have simply delayed the whole change then I assume?

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

you never made 500s of anything because you simply haven't gotten to the ranks where that happens.

you prefer to rank up using finished items, that's not very practical in the current/old system. You may be able to do so in the new system, but the question is whether that will be comparable to the parts-grind that exist in the current system for people who doesn't have a strange attachment to making finished item to rank crafting.

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Well, like I said, we don't know. But here's what I do know: When I have an over supply of items in my inventory, I'll look at the recipes on a website and see what I can make out of what I have and still get good SP. The truth is there are lots of recipes in the current system that are good to grind on and produce finished products. They're just so INEFFICIENT and that was what got in the way. My gear give-aways in the Linkshell were quite fun and I liked doing it. I was able to then sell what I had left over for a good profit in the wards.

The recipes changes will allow me to do this a lot more. Meaning, I will get the same SP making finished items as I did on grinding the useless parts. It doesn't mean that I will make 100 of the SAME item. It will mean that I can make a lot more finished things for the same SP as making 100s of parts with no drop in efficiency.

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you are who is not grounded in reality. 12>1 so if it takes you 12 synths to make the same amount of an item that one synth did before that's 12x as long. what part of that is so hard to understand

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I'm not sure what recipe you are referring to. However, this really sounds like the current system where it takes half a dozen parts from all kinds of different classes and levels to make one item.

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you can fabircate all you want, but i have made items the entire time i was crafting. there has never been a point in which i could not make items.

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Hm... but you didn't grind on those finished items did you? No, you think that's an awful idea. You can make items all through the time you're leveling crafting but you can't do it efficiently. That's why you don't do it.

I have all my craft ranks to 35 and I still couldn't make an r38 Heavy Iron Lance. I had to ask for help from 2 crafters (a BSM for the head and a CRP for the completion). And I had to buy the wing glue off someone else because the ingredients are annoying to get.

In the new system: Wing Glue has been eliminated. I could make Iron Lances for the whole LS if I wanted to. :D

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Should have simply delayed the whole change then I assume?

No thanks.

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I have a right to be dissapointed I did not say not to hook everyone else up. If you were a 50 cook/alch you would be unhappy too. (cook and alch are my two crafts)

This reminds me of when they changed the leve system so you couldn't fail them on purpose. People were freaking out and demanding for alternate ways to gain sp at that speed or they'll rage quit. We're still leveling at a decent pace and i don't think anyone is even bothered by it anymore.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

This reminds me of when they changed the leve system so you couldn't fail them on purpose. People were freaking out and demanding for alternate ways to gain sp at that speed or they'll rage quit. We're still leveling at a decent pace and i don't think anyone is even bothered by it anymore.

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Over time people will accept almost anything. Look at society in general. things we dont bat an eye at today would have given the general population heart attacks back in the 50s.

I'm very excited about the changes. Hopefully motivates those who weren't into crafting before to give it another go.

@Dark,

Still with HiirNovil, lenn1, and Dauntlesslotus on this.

I like making things people are going to use. I like making things *I* can use. Like HiirNovil said, the people who got into crafting to make items for others is not going to be deterred by this even if the journey to the top became significantly longer.

You're right about the high level crafters not making lower level items. Why would they? Especially if it yields them no profit or SP? But it's that mentality that's damaging these new players coming up in the servers. They're slipping into FFXIV, adventuring in their teens and twenties using weathered gladius, no shield, a mismash of quest drops, and hand-me downs. They can't afford the low level items that were priced for r50s leveling up a new job. And those players didn't anticipate they would have to stop adventuring to take the time to level up multiple crafts to outfit themselves with the items they want.

*I* don't even know where these players are coming from, but they're in the game and some are getting discouraged. One person can only put up so many retainers and hope that the low level gear is reaching the intended audience while I'm offline like this.

This is just me, but I don't like grinding vamps, shirt backs, or fish hooks only to NPC them off. And there's only so many tights, needles, or masks you can throw out on the market before nobody needs those items anymore. I didn't want to do Levinshower leve-grind, drop the leve, etc. so that I can get to rank 50 for the sake of being rank 50 and not be able to use my favorite classes for lower/mid level content. I still want to enjoy the journey there.

That and I completely have ulterior motives that require that I do an evil laugh while I cartwheel out of this thread for a bit.

I actually really like these changes, as well as all the new equipment being added for each equipment type. Been long awaiting the linen and woolen doublets.

I do wonder if they are changing the ranks of things though. By adding in Steel, Mithril, and Cobalt Celatas, what then becomes of the Iron Celata, which is already R48. Or the Tarred Canvas Trousers, The Iron Cuirass and its other pieces, and so many other equipment that their adding new metals, or new pieces with steel, that surpass iron for. I Would assume the ranks of these are going to drop, a lot. If ranks on existing gear drops it will be a big rage for a lot of people.

I am still happy that gear is finally following proper material tiers rather than being all over the place at random. I expect the ranks of the recipes to follow suite.

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

im still a bit confused.
There are some 'parts' that are listed in the "Items not Used in New Recipes", but the products that use the parts are not listed in the 'updated recipe' nor the 'new recipe'. So what happens to those?
example: Iron Celata Visor (parts)
product is Iron Celata. Its not listed anywhere in the recipe change categories?

if the parts arent gonna be used, isnt the product suppose to be listed with an updated recipe list?

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There are a lot of omissions like that seemingly for space. Though given the modular nature of xiv's recipes you can look at the celata's listed to see the new template. In that helms case its plate2x, rings, ingot.



Just as a bit of an aside, with the new tiers of mats (steel, cobalt, mythril in metals case) I am wondering if we are going to see the current "top of the line" crafted gear get shifted down a bit in rank with the new stuff being top end. or if there going to get weaved in to the current structure some how. ah well 5 more days until we find out.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Just as a bit of an aside, with the new tiers of mats (steel, cobalt, mythril in metals case) I am wondering if we are going to see the current "top of the line" crafted gear get shifted down a bit in rank with the new stuff being top end. or if there going to get weaved in to the current structure some how. ah well 5 more days until we find out.

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I was thinking that they would be paralell rank but different stats? Considering that phys levels will be elimated, switching gears will be the only way to change stats until food is introduced.

33 likes.... thats how much people like the new changes. . . . . .

3 raw material items to make A R42 BOW??????

This only benefits people with all battle jobs to 50 and all crafting jobs to 0~10...

Previous recipe for Oak Composite Bow:

Oak Lumber (x2) (hard to hq)
Hippogryph Sinew (x1) (farmable +3)
Scale Glue (x1) (a bit hard to hq)
Iron Bow Nock (x1) (very hard to hq)
Aldgoat Horn Bow Grip (x1) (very hard to hq)

New recipe for Oak Composite Bow:

Oak Lumber (x2) (hard to hq)
Antelope Sinew (x1) (farmable hq)
Aldgoat Horn (x1) (farmable hq)

means if u hq the oak lumber u will have a HQ R42 BOW GUARANTEED WITH ALMOST NO EFFORT!!!

Ya people are right not everyone will run around with all HQ gear no no.

HQ items are also going to become extremely rare now according to yoshida. Also the likes on the post are kinda moot right now. There are several posts, and this is going to be something people have to get used to.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I was thinking that they would be paralell rank but different stats? Considering that phys levels will be elimated, switching gears will be the only way to change stats until food is introduced.

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While that a possibility, its a really messy way of going about things. all though gear won't be the only way of moving stats around. Remember all those "Useless" stat swap guild mark traits? bout to be a whole lot more usefull.

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3 raw material items to make A R42 BOW??????

This only benefits people with all battle jobs to 50 and all crafting jobs to 0~10...

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Yuri, you're assuming that the bow recipe will be rank 1~10. I submit that it will not be.

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While that a possiblity, its a really messy way of going about things.

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Yeah it is. I'm not sure how we're going to adjust stats easily once point allotment goes away.

If I'm misinterpreting the 1.19 Recipe changes correctly, ALL of the existing crafted items will have Dated as a prefix.

So you'll have a Dated Iron Longsword +3.
Where new long swords will be Iron Longsword and Iron Longsword HQ.

New items will have new stats adjusted based on whatever new system is in place.

@Yuri, if I read the patch notes incorrectly, the lumber portion would require an HQ log that a botanist would hope to have found.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

If I'm misinterpreting the 1.19 Recipe changes correctly, ALL of the existing crafted items will have Dated as a prefix.

So you'll have a Dated Iron Longsword +3.
Where new long swords will be Iron Longsword and Iron Longsword HQ.

New items will have new stats adjusted based on whatever new system is in place.

@Yuri, if I read the patch notes incorrectly, the lumber portion would require an HQ log that a botanist would hope to have found.

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As i said before and again. Not only stupid people play this game. Gatherers and crafters will very soon have it all figured out and will have a surplus on everything.

OMG! Is this for real? White, black and BLUE versions for METAL armor???!!! Seriously, this a dream come true for me.:D

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Originally Posted by Fanzeron

OMG! Is this for real? White, black and BLUE versions for METAL armor???!!! Seriously, this a dream come true for me.:D

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I like his too :D however, there is only one color for each different material of armor. I hope more are added in the future.

this list may see the resurrection of my short lived crafting career.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I like his too :D however, there is only one color for each different material of armor. I hope more are added in the future.

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there will be. They want to make universal dyes for everything. Think they said this would happen in 1.20

In the august Letter from the producer, Yoshida wrote this for synthesis recipe revisions for 1.19.

"Through the new recipes, Disciples of the Hand will be able to customize gear with different attributes. Different colors will be applied to the same graphics to indicate the class for which a certain piece of equipment has been optimized. Samples to be posted on the forums."

Has any new info been released on this?

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

maybe I've missed something, but i'm getting the impression that grinding craft levels will actually be much harder/expensive, due to the massive nerf to the number of base level mat from raw materials such as lumbers

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Your absolutely right. Now we will have to grind one mat a hundred times instead of 3 mats twice. Then we will have to Level up on items that do not stack and then have to sell them to vendors one at a time..

This is awful..

Unless they are planning a massive increase is crafter XP this has effectively tripled leveling times..

Brb Buying/cranking out as much sheepskin, dodoleather, and cloths as I can before the prices launch to the moon.

Other than the logical part of my head screaming the possibility economic woes for skilling up, I really love this update. Tons of new gear and new colors! And I believe pink/other colors still exist, isnt that list just the new ones, as in we can still use the old dyes in place of the new ones?

Also... How do we even get wood now?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Your absolutely right. Now we will have to grind one mat a hundred times instead of 3 mats twice. Then we will have to Level up on items that do not stack and then have to sell them to vendors one at a time..

This is awful..

Unless they are planning a massive increase is crafter XP this has effectively tripled leveling times..

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People have been begging for "stuff" to do so SE decided to add a few new things and make all of the crafting take 3 times as long voilà! Now you have stuff to do! I guess that will teach us to ask for more stuff to do!

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I'm not sure what recipe you are referring to. However, this really sounds like the current system where it takes half a dozen parts from all kinds of different classes and levels to make one item.

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ok ignoring the rest of the ignorant drivel and will just comment on this one thing.

if you have problems reading this thread then you may not have already seen what it is pointing out.

making cotton yarn....follow so far?

now it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 12 cotton yarn. still with me?

after it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 1 cotton yarn. do you understand still?

before 1 synth makes 12 items....after it takes 12 synths to get the same amount of materials. to grind 12 parts or 12 finished items it will take 12x the number of synths to get the same amount of material.

maybe i should say count from 1 to 12 and see which one you get to first.