You didn't answer the question.
Why does if "have" to do this?Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
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06-24-2015, 05:19 AMAtrayl
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06-24-2015, 05:21 AMReinha
When it comes to potential new players being turned off by all the story, I'd say it's not always a bad thing. There are a lot of things in this game that can turn people away. I will give some examples. New player A tries game, doesn't like the lengthy global cooldown but likes the armory/class system. New player B doesn't like how everything is supposed to be done by the same character because he is an altaholic. He does like the story though, and enjoys being rewarded for doing it. New player C finds the story boring and can't stand the idea of 100+ hours of it, but she loves the housing neighborhoods. New player D finds it really stupid that housing is limited and expensive, but enjoys the crafting system. New player E hates how much effort you have to put into gearing up gathering and crafting classes but likes battle classes and the strategic nature of combat that the long GCD brings. Which of them is more valuable than the other and would catering to them possibly piss off existing customers?
Sure the main scenario could be trimmed a little but they would have to be extremely careful not to shift the foundation of the game too much. This is and must stay a game where story comes first and gameplay after. Otherwise some of the current players could become unhappy. Sandbox MMOs where everything is freely accessible may sound nice in theory (freedom yay!) but some people really like the on-rails themepark experience that this game offers. "Being forced to do something" is not automatically bad design, especially if the game has had it since the beginning. It just means it attracts a different crowd than other MMOs.
Personally I prefer the themepark experience of FFXIV after playing Warlords of Draenor, where everything is optional. No attunements, no "forced" quests and the rewards for reputation, dungeons, world bosses and pve currency were not worth the effort. There was stuff to do if I'm perfectly honest, but the rewards did not encourage doing them. All because players complained about being "forced" to do things. It became a game of raid or die of boredom, designed for lazy players who want to access their favorite activity without putting any effort into other things. Funnily enough even the raiders started to leave when they realized their friends list was becoming inactive and new raid team members were hard to find. FFXIV still holds on to the RPG element and it's so refreshing after the bland experience I had in WoW.
It's not a punishment. What's the point of playing alts if you don't actually want to play them? If you are a roleplayer, surely you understand that each character must have their own story and character development. They must do heroic deeds and get to know their allies the same way as every other warrior of light. Someone who just shows up and claims to have done it all is just a fake. There's even a storyline about that in La Noscea. Even if they trim the story at some point, there isn't any point in giving alts a free pass when they aren't necessary to experience all aspects of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isondre
The restricted content is story content. If the restriction is lifted, it becomes standalone content with a mild link to the story. The main scenario rewards you with not only the story but also access to items, abilities (flying), mounts (magitek, chocobo), titles and content (dungeons). Being rewarded is a part of what I like about the experience. Removing the reward would make it less enjoyable for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrayl
I was mainly commenting on the idea of removing story requirements from content. Making money and bringing in new customers are important, but that shouldn't be done at the expense of existing customers. Besides, no one knows how long those new players would stay subbed if the restrictions were to be lifted. My guess is not very long because they wouldn't have enough patience for end game if quests are too much for them. You may not be talking about overhauling the game, but there was a suggestion in this thread, that story should be entirely optional. That is a very big overhaul to the game and not everyone would like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
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06-24-2015, 05:34 AMDinivas
I'm just going to point out here that casual players and players returning for the expansion had no idea that Heavensward was going to be gated behind the 50 MSQ including all the trials. The SE store makes no mention of this (https://store.na.square-enix.com/pro...eavensward-ps4), and it's incredibly frustrating for my wife who could barely get her relic weapon without her computer overheating. She and I are still on 2.1 and it's incredibly frustrating trying to get a group for the trials that won't kick you when you say it's your first time.
From what I understand, 2.5 and 2.55 are the main patches that lead into Heavensward. If the expansion has to be gated, let people skip to those patches and have 2.1-2.4 be optional quests we can come back and do later with an abridged version of the story available in our inn rooms so we have the option of experiencing it ourselves later. Playing through two patches is much more reasonable than expecting DPS to sit in hour long queues for trials because they don't have a FC to power them through.
Square Enix, you're in a prime position to gain a ton of subscriptions right now with Heavensward. Don't be so pigheaded about the story and turn that money away. Most MMOs have level as the only expansion gate. This isn't what casual players and professional reviewers had in mind. -
06-24-2015, 05:36 AMAtrayl
What changes from the "pro-story" person's perspective if they remove the story restrictions from content? You can still do the story content.
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06-24-2015, 05:38 AMRichardButteActually, the oily lore nerds crying about people not "earning it" by enduring the same amount of boredom they have are far more likely to fall in the "Mom! More cheesy-poofs!" category.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrie
It's the people who have lives and jobs who want to spend their precious few entertainment hours, you know, actually being entertained.
The MSQ storyline at 50 contains some 350+ quest steps. Most of those are running around, doing stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the main storyline.
Remember, "tedious" ≠ "challenging. Enduring boredom is not some kind of bizarre test of fortitude.
You do know that the story ends long before people stop raiding, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
Conquering the hardest raid content is the carrot in the majority of MMO on the market, including this one.
Given that SE is a business and businesses need to make money, yes, actually, it IS a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
And we're not talking about completely overhauling the entire game, here. We're talking about altering content that was designed to be playtime-padding filler so it doesn't serve as a barrier to entry so boring that players quit in the middle of it.
If SE is wondering at the number of people who bought HW then never even actually progressed into HW content, I suspect THIS is why. -
06-24-2015, 05:50 AMAyrie
I have a life. I have a wife, a kid, and a 45+ hour a week job.
I have done all the story. I have done all the optional stuff (minus savage coil). Life and progression are not mutually exclusive.
The mentality that "I need it now" is the problem. Yes, this game gated your precious new shiney. But... Like mentioned earlier: you don't have to do the whole toon over. You do it, you do it once, and now it is behind you.
How many other games allow you the chance to 100% experience the game with one toon? The repetition is how they get your sub longer. Alts made staying subbed to WoW worth it... Once I stopped alting, it was pretty shallow. -
06-24-2015, 05:52 AMDinivasHow many other games make you sit through hours in group finding queues before you can access the content you just paid for? People want to experience the content they paid for without any hassle. You can do that with every other game. Why should FF14 be any different?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrie
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06-24-2015, 05:56 AMAyrieYou mean like the content you're waiting in queue for? Paid for that, too, didn't you? If you want a shortcut to HW content out of the box.... I give to you the Au'ra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinivas
You want to skip to world 8 and do a speed run. Sorry, Mario, there are no warp pipes in Eorzea. -
06-24-2015, 06:07 AMFleur
Excellent post, OP. As someone working on the MSQ, I wish it was more streamlined. I'd like to see some of the quests of dubious relevance to the story be cut and made into optional side quests.
Also, I do wish there were fewer mandatory dungeons/trials in the MSQ. Not none, just not so many! I looked at a list of them all, and it is very daunting. Nothing brings my MSQ progress to a screeching halt like a duty finder quest, as I need to wait until I have a period of uninterrupted time to not only do the dungeon or trial, but to wait for it in the duty finder. And I cannot continue the MSQ until I have done it. The DF wait isn't bad at all now, but I fear it will again become cumbersome for DPS once the DRK/AST hype dies down.
Still, I'll be plodding along the MSQ. Wish me luck on Garuda -- one step closer to being able to gather in the new areas! :D -
06-24-2015, 06:13 AMDinivasNobody's saying cut the content out. We're saying make it optional. Square Enix wants players to play Heavensward. Players want to play Heavensward. Having to wait in a queue to wait in another queue to get gear to wait in another queue before being able to get into Heavensward content is only going to make people feel like they wasted their money on the expansion when they didn't know they had to have all these steps done before they can get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrie
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06-24-2015, 06:26 AMExotik_LegacyThis insane road block
The way I see it, For new players it is very "Tedious" as others put it, and boring to go through the entire MSQ up to 2.55 just to get a single quest that grants access into heavenward and allows players to play the new classes. To me it makes sense having full access but not being able to do the quests or dungeons, even make it so people can go into the new area that they paid for*by purchasing the xpac* to see the main city or any of the sorts.
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06-24-2015, 06:27 AM3JaneVery well put :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
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06-24-2015, 06:27 AMExotik_Legacy
I also would like it if people that have purchased the new xpac could create the new classes that they have also *paid* for. In the end yeah we will have that MSQ be it trimmed or not but at least it gives us the new classes that we did in fact pay for by purchasing the xpac, as well as being able to enjoy even the main city and gather with other players and get in queue for Duties their and at least be able to BS with our buddies. I am fully for keeping the MSQ the way it is or trimmed. Some people like it, some don't, Either way its an amazing story, and for some people the new classes look like their go to class and many would be very happy with progressing the MSQ in the class that they would enjoy the most with playing.
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06-24-2015, 06:28 AMExotik_Legacy
In my example I had just gotten the game and a lot of time cards for fathers day from my wife, I also had pre-purchased Heavensward with the mindset of switching to dark knight because I enjoy tanking and that class stuck out to me. Currently I am playing through as a ninja because fast duel wielded dps is my go-to for dps. I am in the mid 30's so far with questing and up to speed with MSQ to my level. I would have no issues with progressing through the entire MSQ but I would much rather do so on the class that I expect to main which is a dark knight and it would easily increase my enjoyment with the game being able to play the class I want to play that I did pay for by purchasing the expansion. I work 45+ hours a week to keep my family on a good standing and being able to survive, and I have a very limited amount of time to enjoy my hobby of playing games. To me it would make sense to at least unlock the classes for players that looked forward to playing actually playable!!!
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06-24-2015, 06:31 AMRichardButte"Not wanting to beat your head against hours upon hours of pointless drudgery" ≠ "I need it now".Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrie
Complaining that you can't buy level 60 on a cash shop or something would be an example of "needing it now".
For the last friggin' time: ENDURING BOREDOM IS NOT CHALLENGING!!!! It's not a rite of passage, it's not a feat to be applauded, nor should it be a prerequisite for playing a game that aims to maintain a subscriber base.
Look over this small sampling of people who have posted in this thred: how many of them have had friends who quit the game due to not being able to stand how boring it was? How many admit to nearly quitting THEMSELVES?
The real irony here is that FFXIV isn't even a particularly hard MMO. It just has a long, boring story grind at 50 that makes players assume the rest of the game is going to be just as bland and boring (and it really isn't). -
06-24-2015, 06:35 AMExotik_LegacyI am completely with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
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06-24-2015, 06:44 AMTuathaaI have to ask. Did you even read the first post in this thread or did you just jump in making unrelated assumptions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrie
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06-24-2015, 07:09 AMSoralis
you all say we pay for this we pay for that, but i ask you why the hell did you pay for that if you already knew that you are locked without finishing the story? there were notices on the loadstone since ages ago.
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06-24-2015, 07:11 AMDinivasOn the Lodestone, yes. In stores where people actually buy the expansions? No. Not everyone checks the Lodestone. Casual players and those returning to check out the expansion after a long break had no idea they would be locked behind a ton of quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soralis
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06-24-2015, 07:22 AMjazo
I propose a key item, so when you have it you can skip all the quest you want without reward, just to unlock stuff, BUT if you EVER complain in the forum, reddit or talking to friends that "the game is dead" , "I have nothing to do" , "this is boring" , "Story sucks" etc etc, a paid dude will go to you and slap you like this all day long
https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/slaps-2.gif -
06-24-2015, 07:22 AMRichardButteUnless they said on the lodestone that you had 350+ skull-crushingly boring fetch quests to look forward to, it doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soralis
I didn't start this thread with the objective of making the story quest optional: it's a good way to level and I think the story is decent for the most part.
It's just that the buildup of level 50 MSQ was intended to be consumed over the course of months, not days, and as such it was written with an astounding amount of filler. When we were doing a little bit of it each month, it was fine. Having to plow through all of it to try out the new classes? Not fine...
But as has been pointed out in this thread, who would be harmed if the "gating" aspect of the MSQ was removed outright? The simple answer: no one.
As it stands, FFVIX's story is one gigantic "attunement process" in an era where MMOs have largely done away with attunement processes. I don't mind having to talk to an NPC who "introduces" me to a dungeon so I can then run it.
I like that they try to have lore tie into the world, but too much of ANY good thing turns into a bad thing, and the amount of "attunement process" to go through before you can even access the new content is staggering.
And as I said before, it's mostly fetch quests. If it was just "run these dungeons and kill these primals", sure, no problem. I can HELP my friends with that (and I will). I cannot, however, help them with hours upon hours of running around, right clicking NPCs in a "story" that they stopped paying attention to a while ago because so much of it was filler and fluff.
Really, if every story quest just got RIGHT to the point and sent you to the duty finder, I don't think we'd be seeing this issue. -
06-24-2015, 11:03 PMExotik_Legacy
I see the MSQ as mind numbingly long, it loses its grasp on the player's mind from all the fluff. You lose touch with what exactly you were doing as opposed to, oh yeah gonna go here and do this and that makes this do that and then we can kill that. Its more along the lines of *into quests killing it* -Fluff for about 50 quests- where was I going again? what am I doing? *Picks up final quest where it is awesome* Oh yeah lets do this - then 3 quests later its more fluff. Its a lengthy boring stroll across maps fetching random things that make you disconnect from the actual story.
I believe they should make the new classes open for use from the get-go because as a new player I purchased both under the advertising/impression that the class was new, not roadblocked, now I need to fight through a month of work to play this NEW ADVERTISED PLAYABLE CLASS to actually enjoy what I purchased the game to play. -
06-25-2015, 01:17 AMVoltyblastTalk about bait and switch I suppose: new players hoped to make a Dark Knight or a Machinist when they reached 30, only to find out that they must play out months of content to even unlock it and I'm pretty sure that nothing was mentioned in the ads or other medias: only on official pages and patch notes and if I didn't read it back at 2.5 I would've been in the same situation!Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotik_Legacy
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06-25-2015, 04:52 AMLuvbunnyYou and all your friends will hate Heavenward with passion. Not only it is a big huge mess of attunement process, it is also full of FETCH quests in the most boring way possible (oh you cannot find your bow? you want me to click it and bam done, give it to you? - my goodness you want me to go to point A all the way there, then B all the way up, then C and back again.....). Lots of hide and seek quest with NO MARKER, or indication where things are unless you really try exploring (at least 5-15 minutes can be spent "exploring").Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
Not only that the map is HUGE, elevation up and down, and they intentionally make you run around in circle round and round and round to extend gameplay time. Trust me, you cannot help them with hours upon hours running around on each zone. And these quests are hiding potential aether access, that is buried under 2-4 quests chains. If you hate quests and MSQ, there is nothing to like in HW, the amount of dungeons are PALE in comparison with 2.0.
On the other hand, any new players starting FF14 right now will get their 30 days subscription time worth every single penny. It is astounding when it comes to sheer amount of content in 2.0-2.55, and a good 50-70 hours in Heavensward alone to complete. All I can say is, enjoy, explore, and really take the time to read MSQ, do fetch quest, and FATE, pay attention where the mobs are all located etc... This is NOT a race to the finish to access everything, especially if you have been gone since patch 2.1 -
06-25-2015, 05:12 AMRichardButteHW is new content. Every zone is large, expansive and interesting. Yes, the quests have similar objectives, but I'm not accomplishing them by running back and forth across the same zones I've been hunting in for two years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
It's also very much possible to unlock flying long before you've completed all side quests, making them go that much faster.
Also, the story itself happens far more quickly, the dialogue is more concise (and I feel better written) and the MSQ takes you rapidly through the zone with a minimal amount of fetching/chores involved. When it does involve chores, it typically makes sense as well, like killing Nankas for meat so we can trade with the Gnath and start a dialogue (there were actually more items we needed, but the other characters actually went and acquired those. Had this been 2.5, the player would've likely had to gather all of those for him/herself).
There's just no comparing the concise, efficient storytelling of HW to the filler-laden death march of going through 2.0-2.5 at 50 which was essentially designed to artificially extend the play time.
I'm not even trying to rag on the MSQ that was added to the game between 2.0 and 2.55. For the time it was released, it was fine.
Now than an expansion has arrived, however, the time has come to reevaluate older content to see if it should really be a prerequisite for accessing newer content.
The problem with this line of thinking is that players have different reasons for playing a game. For you, clearly the story is a big pull (which is fine).Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
For others, like one of my friends in particular, he didn't care abut the story one bit (he's been mashing ESC throughout all of the 50 MSQ because of how obscenely long it is), but he thinks Machinist looks awesome and wants to main it.
And that's the key reason why it'd be great if SE made the MSQ at 50 shorter or skippable outright: people are drawn to play MMOs for a whole number of reasons, and saying, "No, you can't play the new content we've added until you slog through ALL of the old content" is insane from a business perspective.
How many people were interested in HW but opted not to even buy it when they learned about the 50 MSQ grind? (the number isn't zero, I can vouch for that fact :P )
If WoW forced players to go through every story and raid quest prior to being able to access the next expansion worth of content, they'd never sell a single "WoW Battlechest", ever.
Reevaluating older content is standard practice when releasing an expansion, and SE should seriously consider giving players a means of progressing through the MSQ without all of the fluff and deliberate padding.
Also, the general rule of thumb I have is "let people play the game their own way".
I know people who would be happy to do nothing in FFXIV except gather stuff and craft it into other stuff, never even attacking a single monster if it was an option.
It's a shame that FFXIV doesn't actually allow a crafter/gatherer to progress through the story quest or skip it. I realize it would make RMTing easier, but if a legit player wants to do nothing but pay SE $15 a month to craft and gather, I say they should be able to. -
06-25-2015, 06:01 AMSovereignAegis
After playing heavensward I can tell you for a fact if you don't have any idea what is going on in the story you're going to be so abysmally confused it will burn.
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06-25-2015, 06:08 AMShykrin
Richard is correct. At the end of the day, there's only a handful of the MSQ that are actually IMPORTANT to the overall story, that are, in fact, true story. The rest of it is unnecessary and tedious. It's a huge detractor for new players or even players who took a long break and decided to return for Heavensward. My husband is currently stuck with this current situation. He decided to return when Heavenward came out to play the game with me but first has to finish his story quests before we can move on with the game. He JUST finished the Moogle King. It will be at least two weeks before we can actually play together with his current playtime.
So I agree, keep the important stuff that contributes to the actual story and just cut everything else. We don't need it. -
06-25-2015, 06:25 AMLucySw
i disagree why because we had to do it too
how ever who dont like the game dont play it! serously... i dont get it why people want to play a game just to hit max lvl with a class o.o...
the quest system is the core of FINAL FANTASY ...
if u like games without a hard based quest system go play gw2 or diablo or even maple story where u seriously just grind till max lvl (250... ^^)
so stop crying about it ...
if ur friends dont want to joyn let it bee why cut the content for lazy people ? its not like an mmo have to be finished in a cartain time ... u bought the game to be able to spend ur free time enjoyng new stuff not to do the same old thing as in usual games...
we get for idk 70 bucks enouth gameplay to be bound to it for 2 years ? yah but if u just rush it u are done in 1 week with ewrything
+ they added exp to all lvl 50 quests so u gona outlvl enyway and get geared for hw (seriously if just lvl up to 50 u cant enjoy hw bcs of gear limitation... u die on the first mob!) -
06-25-2015, 06:53 AMLuvbunny
Richard, HW has the same filler quests, EVERYWHERE!!! MSQ moves you along, but it is about the same pace as MSQ in 2.0-2.55, the only BIG HUGE in your FACE difference is, HW is NEW, SHINY, and everyone WANTS IT NOW!!!!!!!!! Overall to experience HW fully, you still have to do those fetch quests, it is the same grind, but it comes with several different flavors. From boring kill X amount of mobs, fetch quest, find stuffs, check item, go find in nook and cranny aetherquests, moogle, blah blah blah. Same deal.
Also if your friends despise story and keep hitting ESC, he will be totally clueless in HW since it is quite dense with story and backstory. I agree they could probably trim a few fats everywhere in this game when it comes to MSQ. But people have been complaining about being forced to grind FATE.... Now you can do xp via Duty Roulette (main missions, trials, low levels, guildhest, high level, weekly challenge, levequest, temple quest, FATE, chain quests in each areas, hunt boards, etc....) The amount of "repetitive grind contents" are astounding, but it comes with different flavors.
It's like this, if you are the type of players who hate MSQ inane crazy fetch quests in 2.0-2.55, you will be sorely disappointed since HW is more of the same but bigger and longer. Also, if ALL of your friends have to do this for the first time, everything is NEW on 2.1-2.55, just like everything will be new in HW. You know, I sincerely suspect it is you that has the problem having to redo this for all of your 7 alts, hah hah hah. I would be furious as well, I have to grind for 3 characters, imagine doing it three times. But I will take 2.0-2.55 any day now over HW.... the amount of work you need to do is astounding to level all your alts, again.
I think the main issue here is, people just want to get to the three main jobs without having to complete the MSQ, so they can just you know, level up ASAP. As well as gating the access to HW Ishgard is a big problem. They could just let people with expansion do 5 chain quests to open Ishgard skipping main story, but if you want to do MSQ in Heavenward, you have to finish the 2.55 MSQ. This way, everyone can enjoy ASAP, but they cannot access new dungeons + MSQ + endgame without going through 2.0-3.0. -
06-25-2015, 06:55 AMVlady
I do not think it is that big of a deal. Heavenward came out friday and my friend who joined last tuesday managed to finish the main scenario with about 3-4 hours played a day within a week. MMO's are not games like Diablo or offline rpgs or shooters you want to join with your friends. The design of an MMO is a lengthy character progression and being able to just obtain all of your goals in a quick fashion (which some people hit 60 in 2 days and have all 180 gear within 4 days) is not in the interest of the design of an MMO. Two weeks is not much time to be new to finish and become a machinist. Why not join your friend as he levels up and have fun with him instead of expecting him to catch up on his own to you? Works both ways. You can play with him already if you choose.
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06-25-2015, 07:02 AMKisaiTenshiAnd if you don't play the story, you wouldn't even know it was there! The raids are not the be-all-end-all to this game. There are plenty of people who don't like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardButte
As I said. This is a Final Fantasy game, the story is integral. People play this game because they want a month-long ride through the story. Are the side-quests tedious? No not really. They exist entirely for gaining experience so you don't have to grind in one spot just to get to the next level like other boring-as-hell MMORPG's. When I tried Aion and Tera... all I can say is "What storyline? What's a raid?" It seemed like the entire purpose of the game was to pay into the cash shop.
A proper RPG game is story driven. Stuff happens, you do stuff to resolve what happens. Is that hard? The optional sidequesting is optional. There is no "filler". Some of the content introduced between patches are designed as time sinks (eg the relic quests), or gilsinks (crafting furniture for housing.)
As I've said, and many others have said, you are playing the wrong game. You are not entitled to have the end of the game handed to you by buying the next chapter. In other MMORPG's that have been out for YEARS, they retool the storyline primarily because future content needs to be retconned because each chapter or so has a different lead producer who doesn't care about the lore as much as the last guy. Now take a look at V1 and V2 of the game. Aren't you glad you didn't have to play all of V1 to play V2? There are a bunch of us who did play V1 who would never want to play V1 again except for the storyline. -
06-25-2015, 07:29 AMRichardButteAnd many people just don't care. They'll play an MMO regardless of whether or not they understand the story if they like the gameplay, crafting, housing and/or a specific class, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by SovereignAegis
And I don't get people who play an MMO to roleplay, but that doesn't mean I should tell them not to, nor that their $15 a month is worth less than mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by LucySw
If someone plays new content without doing the story quest, how does it affect you personally?
Answer to a rhetorical question: the money they pay still feeds into development to create more content that YOU enjoy.
This is an MMO. No, it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
You can hit ESC to skip literally every cutscene in the game and still enjoy other aspects of the game, and be paying SE $15 a month to do so.
People play the game for whatever reason they want to play the game.Quote:
People play this game because they want a month-long ride through the story.
You reason is the story. It won't be the same for everyone.
And again, their money is just as good as yours or mine and we WANT SE to have that money. -
06-25-2015, 07:35 AMKatzyn
I feel like the fetching and such quests help to establish a timeline - a lot of our main events happen over a long period of time, not over days, and I feel like not only would actual time be saved (which...yes, would probably be a good thing...) but it would make it seem like events happened even quicker than they actually did in game time.
I guess if a person didn't actually care about the story or timeline, it wouldn't matter so much. Personally, I like having the sense of "x amount of time has gone by" and having it drawn out a bit. But, I also like that it always gives me something to do when I log in, so I can't just spend 8 hours on a day off from work to blaze through all the story content. -
06-25-2015, 07:46 AMRansu
I'm ok with it right now but as the game gets older they are definitely going to need to do something to streamline the process for new players. The "filler" content with traveling back and forth just to talk to an npc can be pretty irritating at times and unnecessary once the content becomes old.
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06-25-2015, 07:47 AMHavenchild
Finally after having beaten the Story Mode of Heavensward, I can say I was very happy with it. Every single quest, stayed consistent with propelling the overall story quickly but well paced.
Now as for ARR, I have to divide into two sections: The story up till the fight with Ultima Weapon, and then the story after.
Up till the battle with Ultima, players are tasked with first familiarizing themselves with the world of Eorzea but are soon thrust into a chain of fate as they rise to combat the Primal threat that the beastman tribes pose, resist the Garlean army and come to understand the threat of the Ascians (Paragons) being the manipulators in the background. Yet despite these urgent tasks we must embark upon, we must first make a fine brew of wine to serve at a local party. After which, we embark on tasks from locating fisherman, to giving people back rubs. The story eventually, comes around again after we serve soup to some soldiers and we initiate the final showdowns against the empire.
Problems: The story of ARR is good but it is so convoluted with filler fetch quests that it's entire premise can almost entirely be lost until you face the next primal threat or hit level 50 and combat the imperial threat.
Fixes: Some potential fixes would include:
1) Reorganization of Main Story Quests.
2) Completely converting the MSQ quests that detract from the main plot, into side quests and adding in new quests that propel the story line elements better.
3) Similar to option two, you could get rid of quests from the MSQ, and instead increase the EXP of lower level dungeons, or MSQ related quests, so that you can propel through much faster. This would allow for a more constant element of story progression that would bore players much less.
4) Clean up some cutscenes. Some cutscenes could have been part of quest chatter, with either a character coming into the scene without it needing to be a cutscene for example.
Now the Post Story for ARR had some improvements. The main storyline became seemingly divided by 3 separate stories which ran homogeneously. The quests themselves, remained vital to whatever storyline they fell under. However in my opinion, there was very bad transitioning between the quests and the hopping from story to story too rapidly. My biggest gripe with the way the quests were structured, was one quest would have you accomplishing something vital in uldah, then your in Coerthas the next quest, then two quests later back in uldah, now were fighting a primal, then in uldah again, then back to coerthas. Granted to some degree this is present in the Heavensward but the quests in Heavensward are better connected by an element. For example, the key & bismark section.
Fixes:
1) Probably my most major one on this. I understood that with the release of patches, content would be interwoven. However what needs to be done imo, is the quests need to be placed in a more episodic order. So for example, have us finish all of the tasks in Coerthas, then move onto all of the tasks regarding Ascians / Primals, then all of the tasks in Uldah. When you finished that patches events, the next set begins again. The bouncing back and forth between the stories so rapidly to me, really hurt a lot of that post-story. It felt sloppy and inconsistent to a degree and only got worse as we moved closer to 2.55. -
06-25-2015, 07:50 AMLuvbunny
This thread is funny, people complaining that this game has way too much story driven MSQ (yes a few of them are boring fetch quest, but hey, you get decent amount of xp for 5 minutes work, skipping ESC button ASAP). Again, this is FIRST and FOREMOST, Final Fantasy Game, it is one of their main flagpole in the series. You do not play FF games for a Destiny type of "can I just skip the entire game so I can go pew pew uhm OK!!!".
Again, they could have done it so that if you buy expansion, you can get the Ishgard, just to unlock the three main jobs, that's it. With the main requirement you must finish the entire main story up to 2.0. You cannot do any quest there, you cannot leave the main city of Ishgard, you cannot get ANY abilities past 50. Pretty much just to be able to get there, and start the new jobs in the MSQ 2.0. This would please a lot of players, but regardless they will be stuck in having to finish MSQ in its entirely from 2.1-2.55 if they want to progress past 50 and access HW. At least they can now do it with one of the three main jobs. Small changes that would make a BIG difference. -
06-25-2015, 07:51 AMCid_Grim
What's the point of playing the game if you hate it this much?
The game is great, I vote to not ruin it with this terrible idea. -
06-25-2015, 07:58 AMLewtskieAnd you're hilarious with constantly going so far out into left field screaming at people saying that they want to "skip the entire game" when the obvious majority here, and the reason for thread in the first place, was for a positive middle ground. But no, it's nothing but extremes with you, isn't it? Just has to be one thing or the other, either no story or all story, and anything else just flies over your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
And complaining about too much story in the MSQ? Again, everything just zooms right over you. The major complaint is that there isn't enough story in the MSQ. We WANT story, not slice-of-life drivel that has us doing something stupid and irrelevant. -
06-25-2015, 08:07 AMLuvbunnyLearn to read, I proposed a middle ground. The main reason this thread exist is people want to access HW and the 3 new jobs so they can start leveling them ASAP. And not being gated behind 20 hours of MSQ from 2.1-2.55. I bet they will be fine going through those MSQ since it gives them XP and rewards they would need anyway while waiting for dungeons. The "slice of live drivel" is driving me insane too if you gotta swallow them in one sitting. But if you spread it out, they are good for a "break". Though gating three new jobs in HW is definitely a bad idea. Let people get those, so they can level them to 50. But lock any areas outside Ishgard + all 3.0 quests + main mission until you finish 2.55 MSQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewtskie
If you feel 2.1-2.55 are full of "irrelevant boring mundane crazy inane" quest, you will absolutely HATE Heavensward with passion. Since it is bigger longer further more annoying fetch and find stuffs hidden in nook and cranny with barely even a guide telling you where things are. These are all fine if you take your time slowly and enjoy the game leisurely. But if you want flying NOW and all access NOW, you will bang your head against the wall.... not again!!! These insane quests must go, and all these run around with no end in sight and for the love of god, where are these thing??????
You might as well join the line in the complaints department about those "hide and seek" quests, even main quests to get aether is "hidden" under layers of chain quests, and every single zones is full of "hide and seek fetch quest" from point A all the way here, to point B all the way there far far, and then back again and there again - it's borderline INSANE. Everything that annoys people in 2.0 about these "drivel garbage" is triple magnified in 3.0. -
06-25-2015, 08:15 AMRichardButteThis is first and foremost an MMO, and the tired rhetoric of "BUT IT'S FF!!!! IT HAZ TO BE ABOUT TEH SOTRY!!!!" is both untrue and antiquated as a concept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
This is an MMO, a genre were people play the game for different reasons.
Your reason is story, and there's nothing wrong with that, but INSISTING that everyone has to play it for that reason is as valid as someone else insisting that YOU need to clear the hardest raid content AND win 10 Triple Triad tournaments AND attain BiS in all endgame crafting and gathering professions (or insert whatever else YOU don't enjoy doing here) before being allowed to play HW content.
Really, is the knowledge that people might be playing and enjoying FFXIV without having gone through the story quest going to hurt you somehow? :P
Not wanting to grind through hours upon hours of "story" quest with very little actual story in it ≠ hating the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cid_Grim
There's plenty of amazing content in FFXIV. The MSQ doesn't fall under that category for many people.