So I was kicked from Halatali today

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

Yet another underperformer joins the discussion. It's ok to not be as useful as others, just know that a healer that helps deal damage is 200% more useful than one who doesn't, as was proven by 15 pages of discussion.

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oh really? then explain to me why you are labeled as a Healer? can you pull this stunt in FCOB, no?. Your job is healing and you don't need to participate in dpsing. That job is not design to do dmg. You can speed run the dungeon without having healers dpsing.

I'll dps as healer if possible. Sometimes I can dps for most of the dungeons. Sometimes not at all due to a tank who seems to be tanking in his comfy pyjamas. And no, not referring to glamour stuff.
As Whitemage I will always have Aero ticking on the tanks main target. And when possible throw some stones here and there. As Scholar, it depends on how well Eos can keep people running. Low level dungeons she can manage just fine with only having to throw a random Physick in between. So I can focus on dotting and ruining. Places like Brayflox on the other hand has me in a far more active healer role. I will dps if possible, but it completely depends on the situation.

Kicking a healer in Halatali NM for not DPSing is silly and likely isn't a time saving gesture. The time it takes to find a replacement healer (who may or may not DPS, btw) is usually not very good.

That said, I'm in the "Healers should DPS if they have the room to" camp.

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Originally Posted by Seaverin

oh really? then explain to me why you are labeled as a Healer? can you pull this stunt in FCOB, no?. Your job is healing and you don't need to participate in dpsing. That job is not design to do dmg. You can speed run the dungeon without having healers dpsing.

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For the same reason that a brd is labeled as a dps when the only reason to take him into any serious content are his supporting abilites.

A good player is somone who is going to use every tool available to him, which includes using damaging spells a healer. If you refuse to do so that's fine, it's your decision and I respect that (well, not really, but you know what I mean... xD). But being called an underperformer is something you have to deal with. If I refuse to use Mantra as a mnk because it's a supporting ability and I'm a dps, then I'm lazy and a bad monk and deserve to be called out for it. It's the same for
healers who refuse to do anything other than heal when they clearly have the tools to help out in other aspects.

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Originally Posted by Seaverin

can you pull this stunt in FCOB, no?.

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You mean like this? Image is one of Lucrezia's T13 parses linked on Reddit. Scholars are expected to DPS in all Final Coil turns, White Mages not so much but they too contribute when possible.

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Originally Posted by Seaverin

oh really? then explain to me why you are labeled as a Healer? can you pull this stunt in FCOB, no?. Your job is healing and you don't need to participate in dpsing. That job is not design to do dmg. You can speed run the dungeon without having healers dpsing.

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I can't talk about FCOB yet because I'm on T9, and yes, I deal damage in T9, no one's ever died from lack of healing, but even if everyone who says that healers SHOULD deal damage in FCOB is wrong, 99% of the game's content can be done with healers dealing damage. If you're gonna base yourself on the very highest point of the game instead of content widely done by everyone (dungeons, CT raids, primals etc), you're just forcefully trying to prove a point in which your objective is getting away with being lazy.

It doesn't matter if healers are "designed" to deal damage or not. What it matters is we have the tools, the spells and the time to do it.

Speed runs without healers dealing damage? Don't make me laugh. I'm popping 800-900 holies on Ex Roulette while the tank is always alive and you're telling me that those 5k~10k (depending on the mob group) every 3 seconds don't make a difference? You clearly have zero idea of what you're saying, whether you've downed FCOB or not.

Lastly: I'm labeled as a healer because that's my primary job. Let's see:

- Tanks are labeled as tanks, as long as they keep aggro they can just stand there, not doing any skills. Because after the 2-3 combos, they pretty much have permanent aggro. Or they can just spam flash until they run out of MP. They're doing what they're labeled to do, so it's all good, right?!

- DDs are labeled as DPS (hate this term square, wtf) so that should mean: Bards don't need to play songs! Their role is to deal damage, RIGHT!?

I swear, you pro-lazies are so full of crap with your arguments that I facepalm everytime. 17 pages and you STILL believe jumping around back and forth is better than dealing damage.

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Originally Posted by Seaverin

oh really? then explain to me why you are labeled as a Healer? can you pull this stunt in FCOB, no?. Your job is healing and you don't need to participate in dpsing. That job is not design to do dmg. You can speed run the dungeon without having healers dpsing.

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Again, SCHs are expected to do this in FCOB, and WHMs are expected to assist when practical, especially during lulls like Imdugud's siesta in T10.

"Healer" is a role, not a straitjacket. Just as tanks are expected to maximize their DPS beyond the minimum necessary to maintain aggro and DPS with access to support skills are expected to use them intelligently, healers are expected to make themselves useful beyond helping players not die.

You might have noticed a lack of objectives that can be completed simply by surviving. Oh, that's right: our party objective is usually to win by DPS.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

I've no idea how much 66 DPS means compared to the other DDs in the group, as I don't use parses or DPS addons, and since we don't know the exact HP of the monsters, we also can't really assume much with this info. Either way, for the sake of argument: If the Halatil run lasted 20 mins (Probably longer, as those dungeons are painfully slow), 66 DPS would be the same as 79,600 damage. So no, he didn't get kicked for not doing 66 dps, he got kicked for not doing 79,600 damage.

We've all stated opinions and obviously if a healer isn't comfortable dealing damage, he shouldn't, but check your math before you call others elitists. 79,600 damage is a lot of damage.

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LOL 1) 66*60*20 =79 200; 2) are you saying the every second of every minute in that dungeon, you're fighting?. Go back to school kiddo, spend less time griefing people here and read a textbook. All this talk about high tiered content, yes you should dps. Drives me nuts in Ramuh (any primal outside of shiva really) when the healer doesn't dps, because I do have 12k Ehp and a plethora of mitigating CDs and combos, but Halatali NM? Man, you're such a bunch of elitists and soooo off topic lmao.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Actually, you're wrong. From a GM's mouth that I found someone post in another thread:

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2zrm43m.jpg

This would be considered a argument over how their playstyles differ. They want the healer to dps, he doesn't want to.

Also:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/140813/h299ln6g.jpg

Note: Neither of these GM reports were made by me, just found these pictures in other threads and google.

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Huh, interesting. That's actually good to know. They really should have an option on the vote kick feature for that then.

Oh eff it, Sky Hunter(OP is that your name?) Come to the Zalera Server and Join Redwind<UNITY> Raid/Primal Statics, Pvp premades, Group Tresure Hunts, and Dungeon Speed runs are our game, no BS, no griefing. We are always looking for more healers!

Tempting offer Iagainsti. Especially for the PvP :)

Anyways, I'm with the rest that will try to weave in a little DPS with heals, but my job is to heal above all else as a healer. You can count on me to perform my primary role. All else is not only optional, it's purely situational. Tank just took it to the face without a cooldown? Screw Stone, he's getting healed. DPS didn't see that aoe? Sucks, but Holy can wait.

And I'll just be that mean person and say it: you tired of running that dungeon ad nauseum for your relic or just want to get it over with? That's your problem. Keeping you alive so you can actually do so? That's mine. If it takes you just a little longer on your Nth run of that dungeon because your healer is healing, then perhaps the fault doesn't lie with them?

Go all DPS pre made. Hope you can dodge like a champ.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

LOL 1) 66*60*20 =79 200; 2) are you saying the every second of every minute in that dungeon, you're fighting?. Go back to school kiddo, spend less time griefing people here and read a textbook. All this talk about high tiered content, yes you should dps. Drives me nuts in Ramuh (any primal outside of shiva really) when the healer doesn't dps, because I do have 12k Ehp and a plethora of mitigating CDs and combos, but Halatali NM? Man, you're such a bunch of elitists and soooo off topic lmao.

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That's exactly the reason I said 20 minutes. A typical run in Halatali takes at LEAST 25-27 minutes. It's very safe to assume that 5-7 of those minutes are out of combat, seems like you're the one griefing, calling others kiddos and elitists.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Tempting offer Iagainsti. Especially for the PvP :)

Anyways, I'm with the rest that will try to weave in a little DPS with heals, but my job is to heal above all else as a healer. You can count on me to perform my primary role. All else is not only optional, it's purely situational. Tank just took it to the face without a cooldown? Screw Stone, he's getting healed. DPS didn't see that aoe? Sucks, but Holy can wait.

And I'll just be that mean person and say it: you tired of running that dungeon ad nauseum for your relic or just want to get it over with? That's your problem. Keeping you alive so you can actually do so? That's mine. If it takes you just a little longer on your Nth run of that dungeon because your healer is healing, then perhaps the fault doesn't lie with them?

Go all DPS pre made. Hope you can dodge like a champ.

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I think I'm just gonna say I fully support this entire mindset that ThirdChild has and call it a day. She summed it up exceptionally well, and is right to say that if the DPS or Tank is having some individual problem with the speed of things doesn't mean it's my fault as long as things are going well. It's my job to give everybody the food they need, not make sure it's covered in icing on a pretty pink plate and delivered to your front door. When the going get's slow, I'll DPS (because I'm not lazy). However, I am the healer. I am making the judgement call as to when I think I need to stand by and devote all my attention to healing.

Are you a better healer than me? Can you DPS more than I can? Probably. I'd say in such a large game, there are about 2,000,000 players better than I am. Will I be able to DPS more later? Possibly, as I practice more. Either way like I said, if you want some special perfect group, I am SURE you can find 3 other like-minded individuals who can make a pre-made party with you. I, however, am not one of them. Sorry. I have gotten 250 commendations in the last month, and while that may or may not be more than anybody else has gotten, it seems to suggest I am doing something right. :P

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

If it takes you just a little longer on your Nth run of that dungeon because your healer is healing, then perhaps the fault doesn't lie with them?

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I don't see anyone complaining about healers casting necessary heals instead of DPSing.

The issue that keeps getting skirted is what healers are expected to do when they have free GCDs and no immediate healing requirements. The sensible answer is "something productive, like DPS." If you truly need to be healing directly, especially if playing as WHM, no one will blame you for taking care of your party. If you're obviously doing nothing or are just playing badly, then that's a cause for concern.

Honestly I don't really think a healer should be EXPECTED to do anything at that point. If you are with a team that is so capable at avoiding damage, you really shouldn't even have a healer with you at all (or else specifically bring a SCH so that he can full-time DPS while Eos heals).

I did do a run as a SCH recently just for comparison. The DPS abilities of SCH are FAR easier to use and more effective than those of WHM. I actually ran the entire dungeon casting about 5 physicks total and sticking to DPS the rest of the time.

I guess what I do when I'm not healing is I focus and stay ready. If I don't feel I need to focus on an impending situation, than I DPS. In my mind, my team is counting on me to be ready if something bad happens. If I am DPS'ing, then I certainly don't appear ready (in some cases I'm NOT ready) and as a DPS'er that annoyed me when the healer did that, so I assume there are those who think the same way towards me (and if this thread is any indication I'd say there are a fair amount that share a somewhat similar mindset, just as there are those that want DPS).

I get that way too in full parties as well. If our other healer starts DPS'ing in a place where I myself am not comfortable yet than I find that to be annoying and a distraction. I feel that odds are if there is a sudden issue he won't be ready, so I feel like it all falls on me to keep the other members, including the DPS'ing healer, alive.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I don't see anyone complaining about healers casting necessary heals instead of DPSing.

The issue that keeps getting skirted is what healers are expected to do when they have free GCDs and no immediate healing requirements. The sensible answer is "something productive, like DPS." If you truly need to be healing directly, especially if playing as WHM, no one will blame you for taking care of your party. If you're obviously doing nothing or are just playing badly, then that's a cause for concern.

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Oh I agree actually. If everyone's good, I'll go ahead and put some stank on it (like my friends always say). But still, it's purely situational, and I'd be likely to laugh if someone demanded I DPS arbitrarily.

In fairness, I'm only a WHM currently (still working on SCH. It's on my pre-expansion bucket list).

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

For the same reason that a brd is labeled as a dps when the only reason to take him into any serious content are his supporting abilites.

A good player is somone who is going to use every tool available to him, which includes using damaging spells a healer. If you refuse to do so that's fine, it's your decision and I respect that (well, not really, but you know what I mean... xD). But being called an underperformer is something you have to deal with. If I refuse to use Mantra as a mnk because it's a supporting ability and I'm a dps, then I'm lazy and a bad monk and deserve to be called out for it. It's the same for
healers who refuse to do anything other than heal when they clearly have the tools to help out in other aspects.

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But they have no right to kick someone out b/c they refused to do it. Doing extra is not necessary as long as you clear a dungeon (dungeon, OP is not talking about Raid contents). But most elitist whine, instead of just doing a standard dungeon run. That's why PF was implemented, if you want a specific pt then go start a PF, DF doesn't do that; you get what you queue up for.

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Originally Posted by Taika

You mean like this? Image is one of Lucrezia's T13 parses linked on Reddit. Scholars are expected to DPS in all Final Coil turns, White Mages not so much but they too contribute when possible.

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"sch are expected to dps" no they are not expected to, lulz if your Healers dpsing in FCOB that can only mean your dps group is really bad.

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Originally Posted by Seaverin

"sch are expected to dps" no they are not expected to, lulz if your Healers dpsing in FCOB that can only mean your dps group is really bad.

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I'm trying to decide if Seaverin is trolling everyone or just has no clue. I'm about 50/50 at this point.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I'm trying to decide if Seaverin is trolling everyone or just has no clue. I'm about 50/50 at this point.

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He's just completely clueless, I think. He wants to voice his opinion but with his own silly arguments that make no sense. Notice how he avoided the Bards' songs and Tanks' damage arguments completely. Convinient for him so he can keep on giving bad advice to newbies who stumble upon his idiotic posts.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I'm trying to decide if Seaverin is trolling everyone or just has no clue. I'm about 50/50 at this point.

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Or both. I think his posts speak for themselves in reliability so I wouldn't worry any newbies would be fooled. :)

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

That's exactly the reason I said 20 minutes. A typical run in Halatali takes at LEAST 25-27 minutes. It's very safe to assume that 5-7 of those minutes are out of combat, seems like you're the one griefing, calling others kiddos and elitists.

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Nice Save #notreally. ^^Says the one griefing the OP and everyone who agrees. Your side of this argument, if im reading these 18 pages correctly, is that he should be expected to dps in Halatali NM for an average of 66dps when an actual dps is doing roughly 3x that damage or expect to be kicked because said healer isn't pulling his "full weight" and you and you're side of the floor reference 50+ content to back this up. No one cares that "A SCH has to dps in t13" or whatever bc it is not pertinent info to this debate. Smells like elitism to me, and historically, elitists in MMOs tend to be prepubescent teens, or child adults that no one really likes in RL.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Nice Save #notreally. ^^Says the one griefing the OP and everyone who agrees. Your side of this argument, if im reading these 18 pages correctly, is that he should be expected to dps in Halatali NM for an average of 66dps when an actual dps is doing roughly 3x that damage or expect to be kicked because said healer isn't pulling his "full weight" and you and you're side of the floor reference 50+ content to back this up. No one cares that "A SCH has to dps in t13" or whatever bc it is not pertinent info to this debate. Smells like elitism to me, and historically, elitists in MMOs tend to be prepubescent teens, or child adults that no one really likes in RL.

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Yep, that's exactly the side I'm on.

You can call it whatever you like, I call it common sense. If you're standing/jumping/dancing around like an idiot while there's monsters to kill and no one to heal, you're useless and I will call you out on it NICELY, which you would've known if you actually read half the pages. But you guys are so defensive in your one-way minded arguments that you don't see anything else and then what do you do? You resort to calling names and making offensive assumptions. coolcool, continue on being a worse than average healer, we're just trying to make the community see the potential that healers' damage can do, trying to teach newer players what they should do and that they should do it before 50 so that they reach Lv50 and be excellent.

Also, where did you pull 220 DPS on Halatali from? Your butt?

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Nice Save #notreally. ^^Says the one griefing the OP and everyone who agrees. Your side of this argument, if im reading these 18 pages correctly, is that he should be expected to dps in Halatali NM for an average of 66dps when an actual dps is doing roughly 3x that damage or expect to be kicked because said healer isn't pulling his "full weight" and you and you're side of the floor reference 50+ content to back this up. No one cares that "A SCH has to dps in t13" or whatever bc it is not pertinent info to this debate. Smells like elitism to me, and historically, elitists in MMOs tend to be prepubescent teens, or child adults that no one really likes in RL.

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I'm sorry to interrupt a good self-righteous rant, but the issue quickly grew beyond the OP's issue. It's about the larger debate of appropriate healer DPS, not about ganging up on one still-learning healer.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

coolcool, I'm gonna start not using my summoner's pet or not turning on Defiance because I didn't feel like it, let's all be sub-optimal and drag our teammates down with us, yay!

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Great Teacher, no sarcasm at all(this is the least pompous one, reread later posts for more)
Im not self righteous, I tank, so I could care less what the healer is doing as long as I'm still ticking. I do care that this guy got kicked for no reason, bc a healer not dpsing is not a reason, whether he is jumping around(what is with you and this analogy? I don't see ppl doing this)or not. Yes, I did pull that one number out of my "Butt"(do you even lift, Bruh?) bc I didn't want to do the math, but fire I has a potency of 130, lvl 20 wep dmg, im pretty close I think.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I'm sorry to interrupt a good self-righteous rant, but the issue quickly grew beyond the OP's issue. It's about the larger debate of appropriate healer DPS, not about ganging up on one still-learning healer.

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Start a new thread then dude, for said debate. This is about some dude getting kicked and not getting to enjoy the game.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Great Teacher, no sarcasm at all(this is the least pompous one, reread later posts for more) Im not self righteous, I tank, so I could care less what the healer is doing as long as I'm still ticking. I do care that this guy got kicked for no reason, bc a healer not dpsing is not a reason, whether he is jumping around(what is with you and this analogy? I don't see ppl doing this)or not. Yes, I did pull that one number out of my "Butt"(do you even lift, Bruh?) bc I didn't want to do the math, but fire I has a potency of 130, lvl 20 wep dmg, im pretty close I think.

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thx, i try.

My analogy comes from the multiple times I have ACTUALLY, WITH MY OWN EYES, seen a Healer LITERALLY jump around the rest of the party without healing or dealing damage. This is the reason I make my point stand out this much.

See, this is how I knew you pulled that number out of your butt (what's that got to do with lifting?). You're talking about Potency, sure, all well and good. You know how much Potency Stone II has? 170. And don't say that BLMs and SMNs have higher Magic Attack than WHMs and SCHs, because that's just bullcrap, Cleric Stance makes you on par in the magic attack regard.

Now, I'm not saying healers deal as much or higher damage than DDs, OBVIOUSLY. I'm just stating that it's not "30%" or "50%" of their damage, it's higher than that, especially at lower levels, because the gear makes almost no difference and the DDs' capabilities are very limited, while the Healers' damage spells reach their peak sooner (because they are MUCH more basic).

The biggest drawback about healers' dps is the fact that we don't always have the time or the resources to do, while the DDs have unlimited of each.

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Originally Posted by Lyzern

thx, i try.

My analogy comes from the multiple times I have ACTUALLY, WITH MY OWN EYES, seen a Healer LITERALLY jump around the rest of the party without healing or dealing damage. This is the reason I make my point stand out this much.

See, this is how I knew you pulled that number out of your butt (what's that got to do with lifting?). You're talking about Potency, sure, all well and good. You know how much Potency Stone II has? 170. And don't say that BLMs and SMNs have higher Magic Attack than WHMs and SCHs, because that's just bullcrap, Cleric Stance makes you on par in the magic attack regard.

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Eff sakes, Lyzern *Pulls out Darklight Abacus of Debunking* Stone II potency is 170, granted, but so is Fire I for example. A lvl 20 HQ wep damage is 25, but a Dps( let's stick with Blk mage) has an int modifier on their wep, plus the whole right side of their gear, where a healer, geared correctly misses out on all those dmg modifier. 200 was a ball park, and throw those numbers into the calculation if you'd like a true value, but we're splitting hairs here. Also, wow yeah weird to see someone jumping around, and I agree that if they can press the jump button, they can press the stone II, aero button instead, but eff, A HEALER GOT KICKED BC HE DIDN'T DO DMG IN HALATALI NM WHILE HE WAS STILL HEALING. Does that not set off some kind of "A**hole elitist fap fap" alarm in everyone's head? regardless of your stance on healers dps, this situation is ridiculous and I'd hate to see someone stop being a healer or playing entirely.

The OP, Skyhunter, read and responded to relevant posts and seems to have gotten out of this thread whatever he had hoped/expected to get quite a few pages ago. That particular chocobo has been bludgeoned thoroughly to death. I don't think it even makes wet sounds when you hit it now. No one is attacking him, and he doesn't need defending.

If I were to pick up said chocobo and DPS with it, would that make sounds? I would be lying if I said I wasn't enjoying reading all the posts that are made. :p

I had to say though I appreciate Iagainsti's sticking up for healers and players in general. :)

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

I had to say though I appreciate Iagainsti's sticking up for healers and players in general. :)

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Anytime!, and a dead chocobo is a sad mental image.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Anytime!, and a dead chocobo is a sad mental image.

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No spoilers intended, but you might want to go make a sandwich during the first few minutes of Type-0 then. . .

The feels still haven't healed yet.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

You are a healer it is not your job to DPS they are just being rude.

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No.

As a healer you shouldn't be standing there doing nothing. You can help DPS without cleric stance if you don't feel that you'll be able to keep the tank up easily with having to deal with the cooldown on the cleric stance. You also can use the first pulls as a gauge on how to heal and DPS. If the tank is having no troubles with his HP and threat, pop cleric stance for the next pull and go for Holy. If the tank is having troubles with his HP and threat then stay out of cleric stance and explain that to the DPS.

Everyone would lose shit if a tank/DPS performs on the same level as some healers here.

Sub-optimal:
The tank runs to the boss, does his single enmity rotation twice and then just stops. He's taking the damage and is holding aggro = fulfilling his job.
After one minute afk, he repeats his rotation twice again and stops for another minute.

Or a black mage who is uncomfortable with watching out for his mana, so he's only using ice attacks.

Or a Healer who's throwing out some cures and then just stands there doing nothing.


optimal:
The Tank is not only holding aggro, but also proceeds to do damage and is aware of positioning.

The Black mage ofc uses his Fire Stance to do more DPS

And the healer, while every1 is full HP, is doing damage as well to contribute to the party instead of being just rude and doing nothing, waiting for ever1 else to finish the encounter.

I don't think there is any more water to wring out of this wash cloth. I should just post a video of how I play so people can see that the situation is not relevant anymore. =P

I've had many experiences since I posted this, including one where the tank asked me to please stick to just heals and let the DPS do their job, so the only conclusion I can draw is we all like different things. If we win and nobody dies along the way, we did good and nobody should get hot and bothered. XD

Luckily they did not get me as their healer. I would've gone CS, stayed there and quote that guy after ever single wipe.

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Originally Posted by Impexus

Everyone would lose shit if a tank/DPS performs on the same level as some healers here.

Sub-optimal:
The tank runs to the boss, does his single enmity rotation twice and then just stops. He's taking the damage and is holding aggro = fulfilling his job.
After one minute afk, he repeats his rotation twice again and stops for another minute.

Or a black mage who is uncomfortable with watching out for his mana, so he's only using ice attacks.

Or a Healer who's throwing out some cures and then just stands there doing nothing.

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A Tank has more options to hold enmity, which includes DPS. A Healer who isn't keeping all party members at 100% is a bad healer. There are a lot of crappy tanks and DPS who go into dungeons undergeared, or incompetently do their jobs, so the healer has to compensate by healing more. Healers do not get to be carried, as they have to carry everyone if the party is weak.

If you routinely get crappy tanks, healers or DPS from DF, then you know better than to assume that players are going to be optimal. It's in fact rare, when playing as a healer to ever get a party where you have time to DPS. I think out of all the parties I've ever had in this game I've only ever had two where it felt like "I should do something cause the Tank is only losing tiny amounts of HP, I think they can last 10 seconds"

As someone mentioned in the healer horror stories, perhaps it's because PUG Tanks aren't using their Tank stance(Shield Oath/Defiance) like they are supposed to, and are instead trying to be DPS, is why healers do not get much opportunity to do anything but heal.

Really, it depends on your ability/equips/confidence.

What is really silly is to be a bitch about what you decide, in either scenario.

For example, I once ran Keeper of The Lake in DF and got this healer who decided to turn on Cleric Stance and DPS. Sounds bad? It wasn't, actually it helped a lot, and not a single person died. Yet the tank wouldn't stop bitching the first 5 minutes about how the healer should focus on healing or we'd die. At the end the tank wouldn't even admit the healer did a good job, but that's people for you.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

A Healer who isn't keeping all party members at 100% is a bad healer.

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This is actually false. A healer who feels compelled to keep everyone at 100% at all times is an overhealer and is probably building excessive enmity as well as wasting GCDs. Good healers account for things like rate of incoming damage and party members' self-healing CDs and passive regen.

As for carrying, I find myself carrying bad healers and tanks more than I do bad DPS. Not to say that it doesn't happen, but really bad DPS are usually either so passive that they take minimal damage or so bad otherwise that they die no matter what.

I like throwing in some damage spells if I'm not playing catchup in a low level dungeon healing a min level or undergeared tank (or DPS who pull aggro too much).

I'm just curious how long that group had to wait to get a new healer? I gave up leveling up my BLM cause the queues were 30+ mins waiting on a healer or tank. Dungeon wait times for healers are generally instant for me. Unless they kicked OP cause they had a healer lined up they probably wasted more time waiting on getting a new one. That's bad min/max-ing their time LOL...