[dev1017] Materia crafting system & Materia: A Matter of Mystery (08/26/2011)

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Id prefer them keep the system as is (remove parts if needed) and add the materia system on top.

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Also, you just like to complain about anything.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Materia system should be interesting :)
They really didn't explain one part which I was wondering about
If making materia from a gear/weapon with materia already attached would the end result be still be same as the same gear without materia? or since we have this new info would it increase the chance of giving the higher end materia.

Don't think reps answered that one yet, I know you can make the gear/weapon with materia into materia but no info on if materia is going to be exact same or better/worse.

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I think it would be the same as the gear without the materia, otherwise you'd start getting obnoxious +999999 in everything materia eventually. For balance reasons I think when you convert gear to materia, it'll only take the gear's base stats into account. Increased chance of higher end materia would be interesting but then you'd get people who feel you have to have 5 materia in an item before you convert it.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

buy mine! im actualy dumping all my saved materials right now(can always remake them after the changes after all)

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I'll take all your iron ore lol.

People hate risk in games. They just want everything handed down to them with no effort involved. If most mouth breathers got their way the system would be dumbed down to the point where there's no quests to get started, you can desynth equipment into materia and then go trade 5 bits of materia to an NPC along with an item and get your 5 slotted gear.

I've bitched quite a lot about the other crafting changes but this whole materia system is made of win. It even makes sense now why items will be easier to produce. I'm still against removing training books and taking quality out of the HQ equation however. But considering how many HQ crab bows I'll be blowing up for that crab bow +5 materia I'll be glad that each hard earned HQ coral equates to an HQ bow.

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Originally Posted by Astray

It will be nice if they fix food effects for this update. Alchemists should see shards moving again after the update. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

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Yeah.

I hate to do the shard thing to alchemists, though -- we don't want to end up with a community that basically looks at alchemists and goes "lol, well you have shards."

Just because they move, doesn't mean they should be the only thing the craft has. 50+ Levels and a specialization for "lolShards" ? Come on.

Maybe they could be able to make synthetic Materia? Or convert certain materia into other effects. MP Regeneration + MP Boost = Auto-Refresh?

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Originally Posted by Xenor

People hate risk in games. They just want everything handed down to them with no effort involved. If most mouth breathers got their way the system would be dumbed down to the point where there's no quests to get started, you can desynth equipment into materia and then go trade 5 bits of materia to an NPC along with an item and get your 5 slotted gear.

I've bitched quite a lot about the other crafting changes but this whole materia system is made of win. It even makes sense now why items will be easier to produce. I'm still against removing training books and taking quality out of the HQ equation however. But considering how many HQ crab bows I'll be blowing up for that crab bow +5 materia I'll be glad that each hard earned HQ coral equates to an HQ bow.

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That crab bow will be worth $$$$.

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Originally Posted by Astray

I'll take all your iron ore lol.

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lol I'm tempted to buy stacks and stacks of mats which are expected to go up in value. But it's a gamble. Either way I've got so much iron on my alt that I could build a city. I never sold any I got while mining up to 50, thought I'd use it myself and by the time I realised I wouldn't the value was barely more than NPCing it.

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Originally Posted by ViolentDjango

Yeah.

I hate to do the shard thing to alchemists, though -- we don't want to end up with a community that basically looks at alchemists and goes "lol, well you have shards."

Just because they move, doesn't mean they should be the only thing the craft has. 50+ Levels and a specialization for "lolShards" ? Come on.

Maybe they could be able to make synthetic Materia? Or convert certain materia into other effects. MP Regeneration + MP Boost = Auto-Refresh?

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That's actually a really interesting idea. Of course they would need limiters like making them unique or something. Maybe even make the different tiers come from different HQ's. Alchemist really should have more options than shards.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

lol I'm tempted to buy stacks and stacks of mats which are expected to go up in value. But it's a gamble. Either way I've got so much iron on my alt that I could build a city. I never sold any I got while mining up to 50, thought I'd use it myself and by the time I realised I wouldn't the value was barely more than NPCing it.

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It really is a gamble. There isn't any info on how long it takes to turn gear into materia. However, the first players to make +5 materia will surely make a good amount of gil. But what the hell, nothing else to spend gil on atm.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

People hate risk in games. They just want everything handed down to them with no effort involved. If most mouth breathers got their way the system would be dumbed down to the point where there's no quests to get started, you can desynth equipment into materia and then go trade 5 bits of materia to an NPC along with an item and get your 5 slotted gear.

I've bitched quite a lot about the other crafting changes but this whole materia system is made of win. It even makes sense now why items will be easier to produce. I'm still against removing training books and taking quality out of the HQ equation however. But considering how many HQ crab bows I'll be blowing up for that crab bow +5 materia I'll be glad that each hard earned HQ coral equates to an HQ bow.

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Well said, and this is why it's usually best to wait until we have all the info before critizising something.

The training books are being temporarily removed out of the crafting equations but they are not going away completely, they will have their uses later so you can consider that you will be ready for it if you bought them already.

Also it's not really taking the quality out of the equation for a HQ item, it's rather removing the luck factor and RGN out when trying to HQ something. You spent time gathering HQ mats? then you should get the HQ craft. Plus like you said, they need to do that if we are going to break lots of them trying to pack them with materias.

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Originally Posted by Astray

That's actually a really interesting idea. Of course they would need limiters like making them unique or something. Maybe even make the different tiers come from different HQ's. Alchemist really should have more options than shards.

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The problem is balancing the effect/value of the base materia into the Tier of the produced, and balancing the value of each return per level, per HQ.

I.E.

If one gives you 200 MP and one gives you +5% MP per regen proc, what should the Refresh proc be? What about 400 MP and +5% ? Or 200 MP and +10%?

The Materia will have to be tiered off, and from there, you'd have to generate the Tier value for the Refresh.

Problem is, if 200 MP costs 100k, and +5% costs 50k, you're going to see Tier I Refresh cost 175~200k, easy... Then the problem of how close to Tier II value should be the Tier I +1/+2? Because of FFXIV's high numbers, it has to be % values for refresh, because "10/tic refresh" means drastically different things between classes -- and even between levels. Auto-Refresh in FFXI, even at 1mp/tic, had a constant sort of value due to how slow the game is. FFXIV is much faster than that.

And I'm not a fan of low level things costing that much, as well as I feel the balancing act could be complicated. That's really messy, but I think most of you will get what I'm talking about.

Many possibilities come to mind with this new Materia System, the revised HQ system, and the abolishment of accessory slot costs.

• Low Cost / Low Risk Loadout: NQ Equipment Set w/Tier 1 Materia on each piece.
• High Cost / Low Risk Loadout: HQ Equipment Set w/Tier 4 Materia on each piece.
• Low Cost / High Risk Loadout: NQ Equipment Set w/Multiple Tier 1 Materia on each piece.
• High Cost / High Risk Loadout: HQ Equipment Set w/Multiple Tier 4 Materia on each piece.

... and of course the near infinite degrees of variation in between.

I keep reading that 5 materia can be attached to one piece of gear.

Does that mean you can attach a STR, VIT, DEX, MND, and INT materia to your weapon?
Does that also mean you can attach 5 different STR materia to your weapon as well?

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

I keep reading that 5 materia can be attached to one piece of gear.

Does that mean you can attach a STR, VIT, DEX, MND, and INT materia to your weapon?
Does that also mean you can attach 5 different STR materia to your weapon as well?

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There will be more than 5 types of materias available is that is your first question and from what I understand yes, you could have 5 STR+X in one gear.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

There will be more than 5 types of materias available is that is your first question and from what I understand yes, you could have 5 STR+X in one gear.

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Yes, but the risks will be incredible. Even if the success rate is a flat 50% for adding Materia 2-5, you still have to do 4 times in a row. Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Yes, but the risks will be incredible. Even if the success rate is a flat 50% for adding Materia 2-5, you still have to do 4 times in a row. Good luck with that.

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oh yeah thats for sure ^^ but it's still allowed by the system to do so.

I wonder how they plan to balance stats in a way that would allow you to have 5 +STR materia in all of your gear slots. There has to be some limitation on this or you could effectively double your STR. Maybe you will only be able to equip one of each type of materia per gear slot.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

There will be more than 5 types of materias available is that is your first question and from what I understand yes, you could have 5 STR+X in one gear.

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That scares me.

So you could actually attach 5 accuracy materia to every piece of gear you have.
That could be like 50 accuracy ups total.
How much of a difference would that make, and where does that leave the person who doesn't put any accuracy materia on?


I have this feeling that once they do away with Physical Levels and adjust stats, everyone is going to be much weaker than they were before 1.19, until they get fully materia'd out.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

There will be more than 5 types of materias available is that is your first question and from what I understand yes, you could have 5 STR+X in one gear.

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Wait, are we talking about 5 different grades of materia or being able to put 5 materia on one piece of gear?

Players who have met certain requirements can obtain the more advanced ”augmented materia melder,” which allows the attachment of up to five pieces of materia per item. Players can never fail to attach the first piece of materia. However, the success rate progressively decreases with each subsequent piece of materia. A failed attempt to attach materia will result in the loss of all items involved in the process, barring the key item.

Also:

Players can convert gear into materia by using the abovementioned materia assimilator. There exist diverse varieties of materia, each granting different benefits. Materia further comes in four tiers of potency, indicated via Roman numerals (I – IV).

This is all coming from the dev post. . .

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Originally Posted by Xenor

I wonder how they plan to balance stats in a way that would allow you to have 5 +STR materia in all of your gear slots. There has to be some limitation on this or you could effectively double your STR. Maybe you will only be able to equip one of each type of materia per gear slot.

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If I were designing it, I would make Materia modify existing stats by a percentage.

• Tier 1 Materia increases stats by 5%
• Tier 2 Materia increases stats by 10%
• Tier 3 Materia increases stats by 15%
• Tier 4 Materia increases stats by 20%

So if you had a stat of 100, and you somehow managed to get a piece of equipment with (5) Tier 4 Materia your final stat would be:

100 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 = 200.

But I don't think the Development Team is going to go that route.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

Wait, are we talking about 5 different grades of materia or being able to put 5 materia on one piece of gear?

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5 materias in one single piece of gears is what you will be able to do.

There will be 4 tiers of materias, which I guess will require a certain gear level to attach to (like 4th tier will be for gears level 40 to 50)

To answer your question on the other post, yes in theory if they have a +5 accuracy materia, you'll be able to put 5 of that materia in every gear applicable, ending up with a massive accuracy bonus, but the risk is VERY high for attaching 5 materias so it might take a long while and a lot of time/money to achieve that.

Also, while getting a HUGE accuracy boost, you are not boosting anything else like STR, VIT, Magic resist, crit and w/e other materia that could be good for your class. So someone with over the top accuracy might not be better than someone with varied augments ^^

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Why? It sounds good to me. If anything this should increase the activity of the economy.

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Hedgehog for Prez!?!?!

Please show the materia/color/gem on your gear. I think that would be a nice touch even though it probably wont happen.

Pretty excited for the system. Now I only have to level up my crafts and gathering >.>
Also just for funsies my guess for effectiveness:

Tier I: +1
Tier II: +2
Tier III: +3
Tier IV: +4
double or triple values for HP and MP bonuses.

This way every piece of gear (not counting jewerly and undergarments) can hold total of +20 stats, +120 combined. Great boost but very difficult to get.

Also I predict chances of succes as following:

1st: 100% (confirmed)
2nd: 80%
3rd: 60%
4th: 40%
5th: 20%

This would make chances of attaining fully specced gear a whopping 3.84% (0.8*0.6*0.4*0.2*100%) which is approximately 1 of 26. Makes pretty much sense to me.

All of this is pure speculation.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

5 materias in one single piece of gears is what you will be able to do.

There will be 4 tiers of materias, which I guess will require a certain gear level to attach to (like 4th tier will be for gears level 40 to 50)

To answer your question on the other post, yes in theory if they have a +5 accuracy materia, you'll be able to put 5 of that materia in every gear applicable, ending up with a massive accuracy bonus, but the risk is VERY high for attaching 5 materias so it might take a long while and a lot of time/money to achieve that.

Also, while getting a HUGE accuracy boost, you are not boosting anything else like STR, VIT, Magic resist, crit and w/e other materia that could be good for your class. So someone with over the top accuracy might not be better than someone with varied augments ^^

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So getting grade IV Materia on your gear is the easy part, just need high level gear.
But getting multi-materia gear is what will be tricky.
Gotcha.

too bad you cant convert your dingle to materia you'd be soo powerful

I hope the element based materia gives your gear a subtle glow

So let me get this straight:

You have to be Level 18 in a class to get the item to make Materia. Okay, cool. You have to be Level 18 in a crafting class to get the item to actually use the Materia you made. Sucks for people who don't like crafting (paying someone else to do it is an option, as they said) but I can see why they did it. Once you get the Materia made and get the ability to make it (or get someone to make it for you), you also have to get a catalyst item. Cool, gives the miners and such something to do.

Once you have all that and you go to make the item...if it fails you lose the Materia AND the gear? ...Seriously?

They seriously pulled something so stupid even the "geniuses" at current era Sonic Team realized "hey, this is dumb you shouldn't lose the gear itself when you fail to upgrade" and dropped quickly in Phantasy Star Universe's life cycle? I sure hope not.

I don't like losing the piece of equipment either.

I'd rather just lose the materia and all other materia that are within the piece of equipment you're upgrading.

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Originally Posted by Sigtyr

I don't like losing the piece of equipment either.

I'd rather lose the materia and all other materia that are within the piece of equipment you're upgrading.

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This makes sense. Taking the gear itself is overkill.

Again, Phantasy Star Universe already tried this, and it went very poorly. In that game, you could use an item to upgrade your weapons much like enchantments in western MMOs, from +1 to +10. But if it failed, the weapon or armor itself was destroyed. The community hated it and it defeated the purpose of the upgrade system itself because people were too afraid to go beyond what was guaranteed.

Eventually, Sega took out the gear destruction from the list and just made the weapon/armor drop back to its base stats and lost an upgrade level (max would be from +10 to +9 if you failed, to +8 max if you failed again, etc.), and you lost the item you used to upgrade it. People actually used the upgrade system and weren't scared to try it because now, you still lost something but it wasn't the entire weapon or armor you spent a ton of money on.

Reminds me too much of Aions gemming system, where each extra gem you added had a chance to fail and remove all previous gems.

Except SE has somehow figured out how to make the system worse and lose the gear as well? Thumbs up!

I wouldn't expect any less from this company, honestly I'm having a hard time believing the personal chocobo system. There has to be a penelty, heavy cost, punishment or aggrivation involved somewhere, surly.

lol the gear will be the least expensive piece anyway. I don't see why there's so many complaints about that. You really think rare tier 4 materias will be worth less than common crafted items that can be spam synthed forever?

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Originally Posted by Xenor

lol the gear will be the least expensive piece anyway. I don't see why there's so many complaints about that. You really think rare tier 4 materias will be worth less than common crafted items that can be spam synthed forever?

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Yeah, people don't seem to notice how you have to be able to craft said gear before you can augment it 5 times. I don't think they'll let Rare/EX gear get destroyed so easily.

I think there should be a materia slot limit, and base it off the gear piece. Not unlimitted and make it harder each time a materia piece is added. maybe based on if the item is NQ, HQ, HQ+1, HQ+2, HQ+3 will determine how many slots are available? you could also base it off rank of the item?

on anther note, over-exaggerated example: If i can make a rank 10 piece of gear 1000 X better than a rank 25 piece through materia, why would i want to stimulate the r25 gear market? And yes i understand i can pump materia into that r25 piece to make it better than my pumped r10 gear. When starting out as a character in the world, my main objective is to horde my $$$ and save it for endgame items. Cause as long as i can use a piece of gear to get by while grinding a level, I will. Why do i want to slam materia into a r15 piece when I'm going to re-sell it a week later for the r20 piece? Can you sell an item with materia in it? Or before selling it do we have to purge it of the materia? Is materia gonna be r/ex? or sellable?

Can we get materia from battle leve chests as a POSSIBLE reward for finding them, like dark matter? and make the tier of the materia based off the rank of the leve?

How can we check our spirit bond level? Or do we have to go through the effort of running to the melder to try and just get a message that my spiritbond isn't high enough? Or make the item greyed out and non selectable from my inventory while in the melder menu?

I like the idea of being able to add modifiers "materia" to our gear. I don't care to much for losing everything if I fail. reading other peoples posts i do agree with "losing the all the materia on the weapon and the catalyst would be a strong enough reason to stop after x amount of tries." But i would rather just put a cap on the # of slots. "Some pieces of gear cannot have materia added to it." Alot of people are thinking this might possibly mean r/ex items. If i can add materia to a decent piece of crafted gear and make it better than the r/ex in dungeon's or off nm's, why do i want to do the dungeons?

like i said before I like the idea of being able to add materia to gear. I'm not sure about having to expend gear to make materia, and then attach it to other gear with the possibilty of losing it all. I am sure more info is going to come out on the system as we get closer to 1.19. But these are just some idea's, thoughts, and questions that come to mind at the moment about what is coming.

One word....."paragraphs".

Does anyone else see people buying gear to level and not selling it back to someone else? All gear is gonna get recycled into materia. and you will only see gear on the market if someone made it fresh? will items become tradable if the durability is not 100% now?

I'm not an english major, just a video game player :P but yeah i should prolly edit that :)

The problem with the PSU comparison is that they're simplifying crafting and making it much easier to come by the gear itself, including HQ stuff. In PSU you set crafts and forgot them, completing upwards of hours later it used to be. With the simplification of crafting, HQ and whatnot losing a certain piece of gear won't have the same sting it did in PSU. Especially because in PSU it used to be the failure rates on the synth itself were god awful.

this cleared up some of my questions.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-tentative%29

* Players can freely trade and sell materia.
* It is possible to have others attach materia on your behalf, as long as the gear you wish to enhance is tradable.