I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

*chuckle*

That may not be far off.

I do remember an old mention that we would eventually be able to defeat primals and then summon them on the field. It may have fallen by the wayside in the transferrance between 1.xx and ARR, but we may still be surprised by it, especially given what Iceheart revealed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I think it all boils down to what you prefer in storytelling. On one side, we have people who feel the localized English version is "cutting" important stuff out and should stick to the Japanese script where everything is explained. On the other side, we have people who prefer to keep the English script as is so that they can go along with the ride and come to their own conclusions along the way. Of course, there's more finer details in this debate, though it seems most keep coming back to the point of how things are explained to the viewer.

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The problem is it can't afford to be about taste in storytelling. All of the cutscenes in this game are standard across all language versions, it is only the dialogue which differs. If, as a result of stylistic differences in the English version, we are not told something that later becomes important in the story we'll start seeing completely random story developments due to a lack of foreshadowing.

Think of it like this: A guy localizes a serialised book chapter by chapter as each is released. He makes some changes to one of the characters though; in the original version the character has personality A, in the localization he gets changed slightly to have personality B (because the guy thought it suited him better). Now a year down the line a new chapter is released for the guy to localize. In this chapter the character does something that makes perfect sense given personality A but no longer makes any sense at all for personality B. The localization now has a huge problem because the alterations no longer fit with the overall script.

The above is what will happen if the localization team continue to do as they're doing. They cannot drastically change characters between different versions without risking nonsensical events later on down the line. We've already seen examples of this: in the EN localization Haurchefant sees a personality transplant in 2.4 because the personality the localization team gave him prior to that made no sense when we came to his animations and behaviour in 2.4. The result was that a LOT of English speaking players became convinced he was tempered or something because he was suddenly acting 'strangely' compared to how he had up until that point.

If the localization team continues with this different version of Midgardsormr they will eventually hit a situation where he does something that makes no sense given his new personality or he will get a sudden personality transplant like Haurchefant because the team realised they wrote themself into a corner.

The point is we have had numerous problems because of this before but those were minor characters. We do not want to risk seeing something like this happen to a major character like Midgardsormr since he is looking to be central to the 3.0 story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roris

[H]e seals the Blessing because why not, he's a maymay spouting dickish dragon and now he rides on our shoulder or head because screw you he's a dragon...

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Before I actually looked at the JP script this is pretty much what I thought was going on. I was incredibly confused. I feel like this was a huge misstep on the part of the localization team. I can forgive them for it because it's not like they meant to mess it up, but I'm not going to let it slip by without at least commenting on it. And now I have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roris

So in turn in the EN version he seals the Blessing because why not, he's a maymay spouting dickish dragon and now he rides on our shoulder or head because screw you he's a dragon,

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This is what I walked away with from that scene too. Also felt like he was still an enemy. Though I'm usually a fan of the localizations flavorful translations this does feel like it went overboard. Reading the fan translation help make SO much more sense of whats going on.

I now worry this is gonna keep happening when speaking with dragons going forward. And how many other players out there who won't take the time to find this translation are going into the story with the wrong ideas now. A LOT of Final Fantasy fans play the series specifically for the story and characters. While admittedly it's not completely game breaking, for people really into the story it's very misleading. I'd rather not have to keep up with fan translations to follow the story.

I sugest we wait and see how things pan out in part 2 before we make any judgement calls. Things might end up not being as different as we currently think.

Incoming text dump (Durn limit!)

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Originally Posted by Hiruke

God bless you people saying "all the information is there", especially even after reading the spoilerific link here: http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ersus_english/

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Line 1:

Quote:

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JP: So you too possess the Echo. That is why the phantom form cannot win over you.
EN: By Her gifts has thou earned a moment's reprieve.

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How old is Midgardsormr? I assure you he's run into someone else with the echo at some point in time. His line does not indicate it was sometimes recent so this is fruitless speculation and serves no purpose.

Line 2-3:

Quote:

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JP: In that case, it is Hydaelyn's will that we shall converse. Tell me, why are you here?
This is true, the star in the northern skies burns with the valorous roar of my kin. This is the battlecry, calling to advance.
EN: Speak, mortal, and I shall listen.
Guided by a star...? Heh heh heh.

---

True, the laugh tells us nothing, and if he stopped talking here altogether we would be completely lost, however he does go on to state this exact thing in the next few lines, so it comes off as redudant to me so I appreciate the laugh more rather than him just repeating himself.

Line 4-6:

Quote:

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JP: Their destination is Ishgard, home of the people who have forgotten fear and have sinned.
This is retribution! The people of Ishgard are blind to their sins. Their sins demand battle without end.
And yet more, they want to sin again. This is why my kin roars.
EN: My people have heard the song. Ishgard shall burn.
Sons must answer for their fathers' misdeeds.
We do not forget. We do not forgive.

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Line 4 says its a past sin, line 5 says its a sin so bad that it cannot be forgiven, line 6 SEEMS to indicate that it will be a current sin, however.......

Line 7-9

Quote:

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JP: You bid me to stop the war? You might possess the Echo, but you're just a human. I cannot grant such wish.
I have awoken to answer to the roar for it was not me who roared, but one of my seven sons.
As Ishgard doesn't want to repent, my child and their people will not delay the retribution. The land shall burn, their people shall die, the justice will be done.
EN: Seven children did I sire. One now singeth of retribution.
I rise to join in the chorus...
Thou art powerless to silence us, mortal. Yet thou shalt not live to labor in vain. Thy reprieve is at an end.

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Indicates that this is all still about their past sin, NOT a current one so the tone is NOT completely different and that "EN implies dragons are just angry people without a good reason." is not the case

Line 10:

Quote:

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JP: This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!
EN: Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen...

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I'm not sure if you know how trickery works, but the surprise is evident on both translations. Sure he calls us normal, but who isn't normal compared to him?

Line 11:

Quote:

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JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

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So you say... "EN version muddies up the connotation that Midgarsormr is not just in accord with Hydaelyn but that he is ACTUALLY GIVING THE PC MORE POWER BY HER CONSENT" When the English version clearly states he's doing something by her consent? Like, they even use the word consent....

Line 12:

Quote:

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JP: Very well. Then I shall test you!
EN: Fear not, mortal... I shall not harm thee...

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Meh, I got nothing here English version is left vague and Japanese is specific... HOWEVER, using the remaining lines in the ENGLISH version, its clearly Midgardsormr is testing you, so....

Line 13-16:

Quote:

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JP: The Dragonclaw has pierced you. By my power, it now locks away the blessing of light given by Hydaelyn.
Thus the light has also cast a shadow. Perhaps, even without my claw the light would grow dim one day.
I made a promise to Her. And so I shall not take your life.
EN: Heh heh heh. Mayhap thou thinkest me an oathbreaker?
Thou art mistaken. If thou comest to harm, it shall be by another's hand, not mine.
I did but strip thee of thy mistress's feeble blessing.

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I did not get that he, as you put it, "DESTROYED" the blessing, but that he took it away. Something that is taken CAN be given back, which is essentially what the JP's "locks away" means. And he doesn't talk trash about Hydaleyn, you need to see how English works, he didn't say Hyadelyn was feeble, he said Hydaleyn's BLESSING was feeble, and the JP echoes that remark with "even without my claw the light would grow dim one day." Also in the English version I got the feeling he respected Hydaleyn, so I'm not sure where you got that he didn't.

Line 17-23:

Quote:

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JP: However, you're a human. Like people of Ishgard, you're capable of a foolish crime. Do not think I spare your life for nothing.
This is my apparition, my avatar. From now on, it will go with you.
The avatar's eyes are my eyes. The avatar's ears are my ears. I will see what you can accomplish without the blessing of Light.
Make your destiny, special one. Break free from my claw with your own strength.
If you truly have special power, You can end the battle of judgement. This will be your trial.
My body will one day be reborn with the aether flowing in the land.
Overcome the trial then and bring the will of Light to people.
However, this will not be an easy path. Soon my kin will do battle with humanity. The roar of my children has already been heard in all of the land.
EN: Thou didst profit much by Her grace, but no more.
The convenant binds me to thee.
I shall watch... listen... and wait.
Fight and struggle, if be thy will.
Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp.
I drink of Her body, and thence doth mine own find new life.
When it hath grown whole, the loyal and penitent shall rejoice.
The Dragonsong healdeth a beginning... and an end.

---

And you get off track again somehow here, the English implies that he is indeed testing you. When Misgardmor said "Fight and struggle, if be thy will" I even said aloud to myself (yes literally) "Oh so you're testing me man? Alright then"

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

My biggest points of difference were the nature of his resurrection and his role as an antagonist or ally. To the first point, it wasn't even slightly clear that he was resurrecting in response to the roars of his kin--I thought he was merely mocking the PC for following the stars (using divination to predict his coming) before admitting that, yes, he is returning to lead the war against Ishgard. Then, when he strips the PC of Hydaelyn's blessing, I thought he was just doing it because, 'f**k it, the blessing has gotten so weak anyway that I'll just make life more difficult for you!'

So yeah, nowhere close to the intended meaning that Midgardsormr wants to prepare the PC to became an even greater hero, one who could turn the tides of war, and also no reference to the fact that it was his seven sons who stirred him from slumber. Count me firmly in the 'Localization took this too far' camp.

I wish I could have a documentation of my voice chats via skype with my fiance, because both of us came to the conclusion that he wasn't "Just a dick" but was testing us for something, reading the jp script only confirmed that. The only difference we came to was that he felt that Hydaelyn's power wouldn't be enough, and so put us into a trial to see if we deserved his blessing as well, which isn't TOO terribly far off base.

Overall, I much prefer the EN version, simply because it ruins my opinion of the writers to see evverything spelled out clear for me, I'd rather have something that I can discuss and throw ideas around about, than a story that I can just say "Yeah, hey it said this. so no thinking for you!"

nb4 my opinion is discounted by the haters because of jp script.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

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You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about other people's personal experiences. Myself and others have already said we came to those exact same conclusions during our original exposure to the English dialogue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrielleBeaudonet

no reference to the fact that it was his seven sons who stirred him from slumber.

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The reference to one of his seven sons sending out the roar was literally in the text of the English.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

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I also find it bothersome people assume that we had to read the Japanese text to get the meaning... I did not. There were a few items I surmised but again that's about the respect I appreciated receiving (imo).

Why does the story have to delivered on a silver platter with fork instructions*? I've read many books that'd be poorly considered, that are somehow literary epics, if we had to be to this exacting or else "no way you could have known that, they didn't say it verbatim". The sin happening now and before was really the -only- thing I had to consider and to be honest it's fairly easy to guess that Ishgard the hater of dragons is doing things against dragons now, I mean seriously why wouldn't they? Even if I wasn't 100% sure if it was only past events or not, it did not effect the story because the truth would unfold naturally - as it would have to (future patch, head to Ishgard find out information - connect the dots).

The EN text is not that hard to read, I've used the word cryptic before but honestly it isnt even that, I left with no confusion only did I leave with a couple questions - and I like that. Getting all the answers in one go is generally disappointing story telling, ->imo<-.

*this comment addresses the "its not clear enough for me" which I think it was plenty clear for a story perspective (imo), it does not address the dislike of different culture dialog though (desire to have consistency does not have to relate to the desire for exposition information dumps).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intaki

snip

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Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? go check the likes, you're a minority, the community have chosen, they prefer to improve the localization instead of defending the team for the sake of it, a lot of people said they couldn't understand it, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

Also, i don't think anyone here said they should stop making the script more unique or complex, the goal of this thread is to stop the localization team from changing personalities and OMITTING information.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? go check the likes, you're a minority, the community have chosen, they prefer to improve the localization instead of defending the team for the sake of it, a lot of people said they couldn't understand it, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

Also, i don't think anyone here said they should stop making the script more unique or complex, the goal of this thread is to stop the localization team from changing personalities and OMITTING information.

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What part of that post is trying to invalidate people's opinion? She's providing a claim that directly contradicts the statement she replied to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? go check the likes, you're a minority, the community have chosen, they prefer to improve the localization instead of defending the team for the sake of it, a lot of people said they couldn't understand it, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

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Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? Go check the likes if you want, they mean nothing as its impossible to know how many disagree without a dislike button. A lot of people said they understand it just fine, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

Can you stop trying to invalidate everyone's opinion? Go check the likes if you want, they mean nothing as its impossible to know how many disagree without a dislike button. A lot of people said they understand it just fine, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was, well it does, but you don't have to repeat it in every post.

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You can get some rough numbers by just checking every post in the thread, also i'm not invalidating anyone's opinion, if you check my other posts, in most of them i'm just providing information, in he other hand, Intaki have been quoting every post that disagrees with him/her just to repeat him/her opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Virtuso

This is what I walked away with from that scene too. Also felt like he was still an enemy.

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Yeah he certainly came off as more malicious and with ill intentions for doing what he did. Now admittedly my brain turned off after the obligatory overused and unfunny internet pop culture reference because it was painful to see, but the main feeling I was left with was that he had shadier intentions rather than a more righteous test to see if we really deserve to be chosen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text, therefore to say "oh it's clear he's implying what is directly stated in the JP version" is tainted by the fact that you've already SEEN what is stated in the JP version and you're now able to speculate on the EN version.

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Pretty much, it comes off as trying too hard to sound smart on the internet, see I totally understood the thing and you didn't, praise me for being great and intelligent for speculating and firing up all my braincells to figure all this too deep for you meaning that was also not that deep and pretty clearly stated in another language.

The only thing worth speculating about is the Echo, until now I don't really think it was stated to be separate from the Blessing. So now the Blessing that didn't do much except guard against Ascians that also didn't do much against us, at least not directly since the 2.0 main story, is gone but the Echo is still there, when that was also given by Hyadelin. The Blessing was removed but the Echo stayed even though Hyadelin's strength is too weak to maintain the first one, but apparently still strong enough to maintain the second stronger one, at least stronger because it actually does more in the game. There's also the point that IIRC in ARR and especially for new players both the Blessing and the Echo are given at the same time when the first crystal is collected, while old players had the Echo way before the Blessing was given.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roris

The only thing worth speculating about is the Echo, until now I don't really think it was stated to be separate from the Blessing. So now the Blessing that didn't do much except guard against Ascians that also didn't do much against us, at least not directly since the 2.0 main story, is gone but the Echo is still there, when that was also given by Hyadelin. The Blessing was removed but the Echo stayed even though Hyadelin's strength is too weak to maintain the first one, but apparently still strong enough to maintain the second stronger one, at least stronger because it actually does more in the game. There's also the point that IIRC in ARR and especially for new players both the Blessing and the Echo are given at the same time when the first crystal is collected, while old players had the Echo way before the Blessing was given.

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Interesting, this is just speculation based on what we have seen and played, first in 1.0 and 2.0, the echo is a gift, not a power maintained by Hydaelyn, just a skill to be able to see the past and communicate with her and other not human or may be aethereal entities, i think Hydaelyn is now to weak to talk to us. About the blessing, i think we earned it by killing the primals, because in Japanese, Midgar says we may recover it by ourselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

You can get some rough numbers by just checking every post in the thread,

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That works only for people who agree with you. Not that disagree. I rarely like any posts at all myself, regardless if I agree or not. Point is your posts says that likes reflect she's a minority when that's not how it works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

also i'm not invalidating anyone's opinion,

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Actually.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

A lot of people said they understand it just fine, at this point it's a fact, it doesn't matter how your experience was,

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Your post is nothing but attempting to invalidate his.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

in he other hand, Intaki have been quoting every post that disagrees with him/her just to repeat him/her opinion.

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That means you're not reading HIS posts, as he states WHY what someone says is NOT true.
There very post YOU quoted boils down to:
Someone: 2+2=5
Him: Well I got a different number, so no =/= 5
You: Stop trying to invalidate his post! You're wrong!

This is a gross oversimplification, sure. We're discussing something that is PURE OPINION. There isn't a right or wrong answer. However most of the naysayers of the English translation aren't saying "This is how its easily interpreted" They're saying "This is the ONLY way its interpreted".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roris

Pretty much, it comes off as trying too hard to sound smart on the internet, see I totally understood the thing and you didn't, praise me for being great and intelligent for speculating and firing up all my braincells to figure all this too deep for you meaning that was also not that deep and pretty clearly stated in another language.

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From the ones I've seen say they understood it, myself included, the intent was not a better than thou purpose. People said "its not intelligible" and others said, yes, yes it is. You can force a lie "you needed the Japanese text" and then say not only are they lying to how they came to a realization but that they are also saying everyone else is less intelligent for the outcome.. to do that seems bankrupt though. In fact multiple times throughout my posts I've strictly said I'm not making a judgment of intelligence.

I don't think this is even a moderately fair assertion.

The text did -not- confuse me, I did -not- go read the Japanese version prior to being not confused. Reading the Japanese version only confirmed what I already had mentally constructed from the information - and the information was generally already straight forward, just not verbose and redundant.

Of course, imo, everyone has a right to their own sense of mind and may be confused for many reasons, like playing at 4am on 2 hours of sleep - pretty sure half of 1.0 is out of my memory because of that.. lol.

Again though, its not a better than thou - I just didn't feel confused and I felt respected to have a believable character response and construction of dialog.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Intaki

You sure like to make a lot of assumptions about other people's personal experiences. Myself and others have already said we came to those exact same conclusions during our original exposure to the English dialogue.

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The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to have an objective comparison without having someone who hasn't seen the Japanese text summarise the English text and then compare it to a summary of the Japanese text. It's quite easy to point out what appears to be information omitted from the English text by direct comparison however.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The text did -not- confuse me, I did -not- go read the Japanese version prior to being not confused. Reading the Japanese version only confirmed what I already had mentally constructed from the information - and the information was generally already straight forward, just not verbose and redundant.

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Same, I had never even seen the strict JP translation until OP linked it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

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The issue is that you'll never believe us and take us on our word. Not that we unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

My main issue with most of these rebuttals is that they are being made after having read the Japanese text...

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I like how you think we didn't understand the story until after we read the JP translation. Do you think the players (including yourself) so daft that we can't understand what's laid out in front of us, but not explicitly stated? Come on.

Much of the information presented in the JP Midgardsormr dialogue was already known beforehand. We don't need to be spoon fed the knowledge directly during the confrontation. Like the fact that he's testing us. The implication in the EN dialogue is there. I got it. Other people got it. If some didn't understand it they likely did after he says speaks in the cutscenes following the initial chat with him. If others still didn't get it at all, then I don't know what to say.

/endrant. Not gonna do another text wall...

I'll do a breakdown of each line side by side later on based on the contested information that is left and provided, and where the assumed inference fails by my assessment.

Again, I state that a lot of what the people are claiming is inference by Midgardsormor seems more like deduction based off of previous game knowledge and context.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

snip

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You quoted one of these wrong you may want to check it, if you check the thread you'll see more people stating that they couldn't understand it, or they could by speculation, but missed some information that was omitted, even you recognize it in one of your post. I can understand how some stories are hard to understand, their goal is complexity and free interpretation, see the first par of The Matrix, but ffxiv is not designed that way, it was just a decision made by a single localization team. In fact i enjoy speculating and complex scripts, what i can't consent is the localization team changing personalities and omitting information, and in this case they have even created a lore that have been approved only by one of the teams.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

You quoted one of these wrong you may want to check it,

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Looks fine to me, what do you see wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

but ffxiv is not designed that way, it was just a decision made by a single localization team. In fact i enjoy speculating and complex scripts, what i can't consent is the localization team changing personalities and omitting information, and in this case they have even created a lore that have been approved only by one of the teams.

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No, they haven't
I summed up everything there, its all the same. The ONLY difference is Misgardsormr doesn't come right out and say "I'm fracking testing you bro!" And instead says

EN: Thou didst profit much by Her grace, but no more.
The convenant binds me to thee.
I shall watch... listen... and wait.
Fight and struggle, if be thy will.
Man hath ever coveted that which lieth beyond his grasp.
I drink of Her body, and thence doth mine own find new life.
When it hath grown whole, the loyal and penitent shall rejoice.
The Dragonsong healdeth a beginning... and an end.

I understood that he was indeed just testing us. As COUNTLESS people have said, the JP translation just beats you upside the head with it e.g., "Hey! I'm testing you! Hey! Listen! I'm testing you! Hey listen! I'm testing you!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by File2ish

I like how you think we didn't understand the story until after we read the JP translation. Do you think the players (including yourself) so daft that we can't understand what's laid out in front of us, but not explicitly stated? Come on.

Much of the information presented in the JP Midgardsormr dialogue was already known beforehand. We don't need to be spoon fed the knowledge directly during the confrontation. Like the fact that he's testing us. The implication in the EN dialogue is there. I got it. Other people got it. If some didn't understand it they likely did after he says speaks in the cutscenes following the initial chat with him. If others still didn't get it at all, then I don't know what to say.

/endrant. Not gonna do another text wall...

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That's a nice strawman there considering I stated nothing of the sort. I stated that seeing the Japanese text will affect recollections of the original and that there was clearly information that was not present in the English text. To claim that I think people 'daft' because they don't want to have to speculate on what the text could mean (where they could potentially be wrong) and that all the information was clearly available to anyone who wasn't 'daft' seems to suggest that you believe yourself superior to everyone else because 'I got it'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miitan

The issue is that by seeing the Japanese text, you unconsciously form a type of confirmation bias where you recall things in such a way that it confirms your idea that the English text contains everything the Japanese text did.

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You really feel a need to believe that don't you? I wish I knew why. In any case, you should take those mindreading abilities on the road; could probably make a decent buck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Again, I state that a lot of what the people are claiming is inference by Midgardsormor seems more like deduction based off of previous game knowledge and context.

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I'm very confused about why you seem to think this is a bad thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

snip

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You quoted me with one of your sentences instead of mine.

About the lore, i'm talking about the dragon language created by Koji, which resulted in the dry speech on Midgar, this kind of speech based on Koji's dragon language have not been used by the other teams, there are a few links in the first page to the post where Koji explains his lore, you may want to see it.

I did as well, i failed to fully understand the Japanese VA because he was using some weird words so i decided to go with the English text first, and after SPECULATING i realized he was testing us, but after listening to the Japanese VA a few times to fully get it, i noticed some information was missing in the EN text, you can speculate all you want, but they have omitted information in the English script, and the have changed his personality, by making him more bad than wise, they even changed the relation Midgar and Hydaelyn have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renik

they even changed the relation Midgar and Hydaelyn have.

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Plainly false. There is zero evidence to support this claim. As of now, we don't know what the specific relationship between the two is, no matter which translation you prefer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mholito

I sugest we wait and see how things pan out in part 2 before we make any judgement calls. Things might end up not being as different as we currently think.

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Well hopefully someone passed word of this thread to the EN localization team and they take our comments into consideration going forward. If not, well there's always fan translations. I just don't think having to rely on a fan translation to really know exactly what is going should be the goal of localization though and I hope Fernhalwes et al. understand this now if they didn't before.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Plainly false. There is zero evidence to support this claim. As of now, we don't know what the specific relationship between the two is, no matter which translation you prefer.

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I agree and disagree. I don't feel as if too much of Midgardsormrs' relationship with Hydaelyn is entirely at question so much as the specifics of it. Though the relationship established and the character depiction of Midardsormor to the player is, as is the information provided. I'd go further into but I don't have enough time at work to do the full analysis here, and, due to illness, really need to take a sizable break from sitting at a computer before resuming such efforts at home.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

I'm very confused about why you seem to think this is a bad thing.

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If the speech of the dragon is reliant on the outer context of the story for the player to understand its meaning, then I feel the effort in which Koji and the localization created fails to acheive the goals meant for the Draconic Race - which is to have the most meaning in the fewest words. They were described a succinct, not cryptic. And again, there is still information omitted here that isn't referenced in the greater story.

Again, not so much hating the style, but the execution of it. We wound up with a different character saying somewhat different things in vastly different ways. That's where we're getting a lot of the back-and-forth here.

Each individual change, isolated and on not as important of a character or important of plot points, likely would not have caused this much backlash. However the multiple factors I'll list later compound on one another and illustrate why many of us prefer more unified depictions.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Plainly false. There is zero evidence to support this claim. As of now, we don't know what the specific relationship between the two is, no matter which translation you prefer.

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From Zantitrach post

JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

In Japanese, he has doubts about we being chosen, he even questions Hydaelyn's decision because he sees it as something surprising, and he finally acts like if he were listening to Hydaelyn's words telling him to give us more power.

In English, he tells Hydaelyn to listen his words, by saying "i remember and i consent" he makes reference to a kind of pact between him and Hydaelyn, and he implies his acceptance of Hydaelyn's decision based on that non-existent (for now at least) pact, in no moment he seems to be listening to Hydaelyn's words.

I think people are overreacting here. Nothing in the direct Japanese translation wasn't already implied in the English dialogue or by paying attention in the Main Scenario story.

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Originally Posted by Renik

From Zantitrach post

JP: Could it be, you think him special? Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?
EN: Hearken to me, Hydaelyn! I remember... and I consent.

In Japanese, he has doubts about we being chosen, he even questions Hydaelyn's decision because he sees it as something surprising, and he finally acts like if he were listening to Hydaelyn's words telling him to give us more power.

In English, he tells Hydaelyn to listen his words, by saying "i remember and i consent" he makes reference to a kind of pact between him and Hydaelyn, and he implies his acceptance of Hydaelyn's decision based on that non-existent (for now at least) pact, in no moment he seems to be listening to Hydaelyn's words.

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There are many ways to interpret that JP line,and some of those ways does correspond with the EN line, one being Midardsormr could be thinking out loud about an earlier discussion or promise to Hydaelyn, where she asks him to grant her chosen champion power. Of course this speculation is taken fully out of the context of the entire discussion using only the lines you considered worthy of showing and therefor is inherently less reliable then speculation made in relation to the full context of the dialog (well monologue because WoL don't talk in a way the player can hear)

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

There are many ways to interpret that JP line,and some of those ways does correspond with the EN line, one being Midardsormr could be thinking out loud about an earlier discussion or promise to Hydaelyn, where she asks him to grant her chosen champion power. Of course this speculation is taken fully out of the context of the entire discussion using only the lines you considered worthy of showing and therefor is inherently less reliable then speculation made in relation to the full context of the dialog (well monologue because WoL don't talk in a way the player can hear)

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JP: This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!
EN: Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen...

Here you have the rest of the text where he seems to be talking to Hydaelyn, in the first he talks to Hydaelyn, we can't know if she is listening or not, as you said this is just speculation until we can advance in the story, but EN text just implies how Midgar notices Hydaelyn's intentions in our power.

Also i have took the sentences from Zantitrach's post, who disagrees with me, i have not been tricky or tried to hide anything, you can check the whole text in the previous page (depending on your forum settings).

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Originally Posted by Renik

JP: This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!
EN: Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen...

Here you have the rest of the text where he seems to be talking to Hydaelyn, in the first he talks to Hydaelyn, we can't know if she is listening or not, as you said this is just speculation until we can advance in the story, but EN text just implies how Midgar notices Hydaelyn's intentions in our power.

Also i have took the sentences from Zantitrach's post, who disagrees with me, i have not been tricky or tried to hide anything, you can check the whole text in the previous page (depending on your forum settings).

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In both versions context I think that the light surrounding the WoL would most likely be Hydaelyn "speaking up" in defense of her champion whom maybe was feeling threatened by Middy's tone or something (or in the EN version the fact that he more or less says he's going to kill you) This Seems like a far stretch to me to be honest but it would encompass both localizations, assuming both to be canon of course.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

In both versions context I think that the light surrounding the WoL would most likely be Hydaelyn "speaking up" in defense of her champion whom maybe was feeling threatened by Middy's tone or something (or in the EN version the fact that he more or less says he's going to kill you) This Seems like a far stretch to me to be honest but it would encompass both localizations, assuming both to be canon of course.

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I see your point, from a more or less speculative perspective, you could say Hydaelyn is talking to him in both versions, but in this case only in the Japanese one Middy (gonna borrow this lol) seem to be talking to her, while in EN it looks more like a monologue with the player as an spectator, may be it's just me, but i see a big difference here.

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Originally Posted by Renik

JP: This light... You protect him! Hydaelyn, you bestow more power on this one, who already bears the Echo!
EN: Hmph. Trickery is they shield. This frail, ignoble creature is not gifted, but chosen...

Here you have the rest of the text where he seems to be talking to Hydaelyn, in the first he talks to Hydaelyn, we can't know if she is listening or not, as you said this is just speculation until we can advance in the story, but EN text just implies how Midgar notices Hydaelyn's intentions in our power.

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Except that both of those lines can be interpreted to mean the exact same thing. You assume that in the first he's speaking to Hydaelyn, while it is entirely plausible he's just speaking to himself (something Japanese characters have a tendency to do a lot). Anyone who watches anime or Japanese soaps can attest to that.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Except that both of those lines can be interpreted to mean the exact same thing.

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Yea, you can say that.. after reading the direct JP translation to be able to make that judgement. Without that comparison, drawing that interpretation from the NA text alone becomes....... no. You aren't going to get the same thing out of it. Which is the issue.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Yea, you can say that.. after reading the direct JP translation to be able to make that judgement. Without that comparison, drawing that interpretation from the NA text alone becomes....... no. You aren't going to get the same thing out of it. Which is the issue.

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Well I, and others, did so... yeah...