People are being cruel to new players

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Originally Posted by AngelMoon

From the sounds of it, you don't know your rotation, know the run, and don't have a keyboard to communicate, and im guessing you didn't look up guides for the run as well? Sorry, but I really don't feel sorry for you.

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Ah yes, and the problem rears its head....

Thats the asshat attitude right there I see too much of in game.

"READ IT ALL AHEAD OF TIME!" - Because you've lost all sense of wonder and discovery doesnt mean everyone has.

"MASTER YOUR CRAFT!" - Because you're so flawless and perfect ..... um.. not.

Tolerance? Its something people need to learn, big time.

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Originally Posted by AngelMoon

From the sounds of it, you don't know your rotation, know the run, and don't have a keyboard to communicate, and im guessing you didn't look up guides for the run as well? Sorry, but I really don't feel sorry for you.

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It seems to me she is not talking 'in the present' and asking for advice, she is talking in past tense when she first started out as a tank (as you can see now, she is a 50 conjurer). Her point, to me, is more so 'back when I started new people were treated badly, and they are still being treated badly, why?'

She's not asking anyone to feel sorry for her. She's asking people to stop all the hate just because someone isn't as good as a older player because they are 'new', we were all new and learning at some point. We wouldn't have wanted to be treated that way.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

My wife is a tank, 1st and foremost. And she refuses to run content the 1st time without people in LS/FC. She just doesn't want to be yelled at to treated badly.

On that note, she has been playing a WHM a lot more as of late because of bad treatment as a tank.

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Tanking is the role which requires a lot of knowledge about what you're doing and what you're supposed to do.
Mistakes made by a tank are more punitive for the whole group than any class in the game.

Even a moderatly bad healer can still be able to be enough for the vast majority of low level content. But a bad tank? Nope, not gonna get far.

Tanks have more responsability and more weight on their shoulder than pretty much anyone else, which is why people are more willing to blame anyone who fails at tanking because of a lack of knowledge or understanding.

For example: if you have to ask multiple times your tank Warrior to use Defiance before he finaly use it, it's like asking a Bard to shoot arrows, or a healer to cast cure.

Tanking is more unforgiving than any other role, which is why people expect you to know at least what you're supposed to do. They don't ask for a flawless execution, but for something which is mandatory for the tank role.
This is pretty much why tanks get yelled at when they don't understand anything or don't even know the basics.
Obviously, new players are the ones most likely to be in that situation... But it's not really a "crusade against newbie tanks", it's more about new tanks who are not willing to make efforts requiered by the role they have chosen.

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Ah yes, and the problem rears its head....

Thats the asshat attitude right there I see too much of in game.

"READ IT ALL AHEAD OF TIME!" - Because you've lost all sense of wonder and discovery doesnt mean everyone has.

"MASTER YOUR CRAFT!" - Because you're so flawless and perfect ..... um.. not.

Tolerance? Its something people need to learn, big time.

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No one is asking for perfection. All we're asking for is competence. There's a huuuuge difference between the two, and yet, many new players think of one as the other. Even if this is your first mmo and don't know what to expect, by not doing your research on your toon and what you're doing, you are impeding the fun of anyone who plays with you. We'd like to have fun too, and you running around like a chicken with it's head cut off doing abysmal dps/can't heal/tank worth a damn doesn't make most people want to help; it makes most people want to chain you to a wall and pull your teeth out with pliers.

I have no problem with new people. I've seen some new players play well, and it's a beautiful thing. I have a problem with new people that think that because they are new they get a carry pass. I feel taken advantage of in that situation. If I feel taken advantage of, I believe that the person expecting that carry because he/she is new is not only a bad player, but a bad person in real life. I mean, if they can screw over complete strangers, who knows what they do to their family and friends. So no, I feel no sympathy.

I remember one of my first mmo experiences. It was in EQ1 and I made a brand new character on a PvP server since I had no idea how PvP worked in that particular game. The game started me in Freeport which is a bit of a labyrinth compared to other starting areas. So over chat I ask if anyone can show me to the newbie questing area. A person shows ups and tells me they will help and to follow them, so I do. Suddenly we drop down into a PvP enabled arena and the person turns around, kills me in one hit and loots my starting gear, leaving me with nothing and unable to do anything with my character.

So, people being jerks is not a new thing and while it can be rampant in mmo's due to online anonymity, it is not nearly as bad as other online gaming communities, online BF and CoD for example.

However, like with being new to anything, try to know what you are getting into. Research a game before you buy it which includes what type of game it is and how it plays. I've seen way too many people complain because they thought this was going to be like the FF13 games, which they would know is not the case with even the tiniest attempt at being informed about what they were getting.

I know getting into mmo's can be difficult and frustrating both for the new player as well as the veteran they are playing with. My gf is playing with me and is new to mmo's and has never really played that many games so this is a very new experience for her. She will often get frustrated about things because she didn't know something and I will admit that I sometimes get frustrated with her because some things are basic knowledge to me but aren't to her since she is new.

Sometimes I will help her out with stuff, especially if it is the first time she is doing something like a new dungeon and other times I will have her do it by herself so that she doesn't become reliant on my help to play the game.

However no matter a person's experience level, veteran or brand new, or whether they are playing an online game or just walking down the street, they should always practice patience and respect. Keep in mind that these things are two way streets and that you can't expect to receive them if you are not willing to give in return. This is the basis for any positive interaction between people.

As for being new to the game and the genre as well as playing on a console.

- get a keyboard (USB or Bluetooth) as this will make communicating way faster and easier and in an online cooperative game, communication is key.
- tell people you are new otherwise most people will assume you know what you are doing which could lead to bad situations, wipes and a negative experience.
- learn to let it go. I don't know a nice way to say this but don't let it get to you. Jerks will be jerks, in this game and everywhere else in life. When dealing with any large group of people you have to be prepared for the chance that some of them are not going to be very nice.
- seek out assistance. If you need help be proactive and try to find it. this can be done in a number of ways such as looking stuff up on the internet (seriously people, Google is your friend), watching tutorials and walkthroughs, or just simply asking for advice or help. You can't really expect others to put in effort to help you if you are not willing to first put in the effort to help yourself.
- try to find a group of friendly and helpful people to have as a resource to help you out and try to get into a good Free Company if you can. Having people you can rely on really makes the game much more enjoyable. Plus playing with other is always better than trying the play by yourself IMO.
- listen and learn. advice and assistance can only do as much as a person is willing to take in. if people are trying to give advice don't get defensive and listen to what they have to say and when you make a mistake learn from it and try not to repeat it.
- Most importantly BE RESPECTFUL AND CONSIDERATE to your fellow players. You don't like it when people are jerks to you and neither does anyone else, so be part of the solution not part of the problem.

Anyways, I'm sorry that you have had such an unpleasant time thus far and I hope that it gets better for you.

p.s. this is advice for anybody and everybody and is not aimed solely at the op.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

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I'm sorry, there are so many things wrong with this. Where to start...

I don't main tank, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to play tank. And when the tank is tunnel visioning one mob while the rest goes after the healer - and I have to pull them off the healer as a BLACK MAGE of all things - it's pretty easy to tell that even if they're learning, they still have a long way to go. Yes, I do try to give them pointers and tips without sounding "elitist", but more often than not...I get no response.

Both sides are at fault - the "veterans" for not being more patient (I am patient, but only until I realize that the new person simply doesn't care), and some newbies for really not even listening to advice, even if it's not offered in the most tactful way.

Gear never really determined skill (unless it's High Allagan from the later turns, and that won't apply for very long), and even the lesser geared people can still underperform just as badly - but it's just far more apparent when they're better geared. You're stereotyping a lot of the people who do anything in currently relevant endgame - not a very good idea.

The term "enmity" has been in use since FFXI - which, if memory serves me correctly, precedes WoW. That in no way shows someone's a "newbie" - especially if we're just using the terms that the developers use. I have no idea what makes you think using a different term indicates how much MMO experience they have. I despise the word "toon," does that make me a newbie?

As mentioned somewhere earlier in the thread...so many of these problems can be avoided if you do some research for yourself. No, that does not necessarily mean going on the internet and reading a guide - it means reading text IN GAME. Ability tooltips, what Duty Finder sets your current class's role as, quest descriptions/dialogue text (need I bring up the level 10 GLA class quest again?), Active Help windows...There is so much information in game, that if you completely ignore it all and then get yelled at for not knowing your role, it's really on you for not taking a few minutes to go through all the help you're given (not to say that the other guy isn't a jerk depending on how he says it).

Something that really irks me.

You start an MMO, a game where people communicate with each other, have no keyboard, and expect THEM to know this and expect THEM to wait for you and expect THEM to treat you like a princess because you expect THEM to know that you are new.

Why are THOSE people mean?

Nobody owes you explanations before hand. Nobody can look in his teacup and see "oh that person is new I absolutely have to tell him what to do"

I have seen really mean players, but the mentioned stuff is far away from mean.

I'm willing to go further and say you don't need external resources for most content in this game unless you're doing a lot of coil/EX primal pick-up groups. A person can easily piece together an effective attack rotation just by reading through ability descriptions as they learn them, and there are plenty of different types of information provided by the game that, for the most part, eliminate the need for a person to look for external resources for anything unless they want to know something immediately.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Something that really irks me.

You start an MMO, a game where people communicate with each other, have no keyboard, and expect THEM to know this and expect THEM to wait for you and expect THEM to treat you like a princess because you expect THEM to know that you are new.

Why are THOSE people mean?

Nobody owes you explanations before hand. Nobody can look in his teacup and see "oh that person is new I absolutely have to tell him what to do"

I have seen really mean players, but the mentioned stuff is far away from mean.

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And your attitude is friendly? Not.

That sort of attitude is the problem. Learn to help people and not criticize, because you arent perfect either, and you didnt start your first MMO knowing it all.

It's a social game, and if you dont want to be social and help people (which based on your comments, you dont), then you're not helping, you're part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Ah yes, and the problem rears its head....

Thats the asshat attitude right there I see too much of in game.

"READ IT ALL AHEAD OF TIME!" - Because you've lost all sense of wonder and discovery doesnt mean everyone has.

"MASTER YOUR CRAFT!" - Because you're so flawless and perfect ..... um.. not.

Tolerance? Its something people need to learn, big time.

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Yes you can read it ahead of time. There are MANY tutorials in the game, this game holds your hand too damn hard. Read active help windows, read class quest dialog, do guildhests, read tooltips. With all the IN GAME information there is, there's almost no excuse to not know.

OP admitted they skipped tutorials and the like, look what happened to them.

If someone expects me to know how well he/she/it knows a dungeons without speaking up, the friendliest (and unfriendliest) he/she/it will get a roll eyes.

You don't seem to understand what I am getting at, if you consider what I am saying is mean.

It is not friendly, it is neutral. This game needs communication, don't expect people to have a crystal ball to know whats up with you

Even better. "Don't expect anything, make sure"

I had an opposite experience, new player being cruel to me. This was early days when people were locked out and couldn't login.

Someone shouted then were afk all day in Central Shroud. Then I happen to shout something totally unrelated, I was DoLing. Next thing I know I get harassed by a newbie named 'Kitty Kat'.

The player starts giving me lines and lines of text saying a bunch of unruly things to me. I'm sitting there thinking wth did I do. Took me a while to realize what happened.

I told him or her to scroll up. But they were like 'NO I KNOW WHAT YOU SAID'. This went on for like 30-45 minutes. I had to eventually copy and paste.

Did I get an apology? Nope, even after clearing my name, they went on picking a fight for the fact that I threw back a few choice words after having all this crap thrown in my face for no good reason.

What does this tell you? It don't matter whether you're a newbie or a seasoned player, asshats don't differentiate between the two.

I wouldn't even have any of this .... chocobo dung.. if someone acts liek that towards me he is in the same list as RMT.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Something that really irks me.

You start an MMO, a game where people communicate with each other, have no keyboard, and expect THEM to know this and expect THEM to wait for you and expect THEM to treat you like a princess because you expect THEM to know that you are new.

Why are THOSE people mean?

Nobody owes you explanations before hand. Nobody can look in his teacup and see "oh that person is new I absolutely have to tell him what to do"

I have seen really mean players, but the mentioned stuff is far away from mean.

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Well first off, there is the little leaf beside players names, that shows they are a new player and it doesn't go away until they have like 40 hours of in game play time. Also, when a person is going into a dungeon for the first time it says 'this is a new player you get extra credit for completing this', so people don't need teacup to help them.

And what about my friend? She communicates, has a keyboard and we also helped them the first time with the dungeon, gave them some advice and they were doing a decent job. I mean level 15, first time playing the game and first dungeon, for the experience they had they did good. We didn't wipe and didn't die. They had some issues holding hate, but what can you expect from low level Gladiator who really doesn't have good hate management at that level.

She decided they want to run it again on her own and practice more. We let her go and then she has some high level person telling her whole group that they sucks, getting frustrated with them and telling her she shouldn't play GLD and switch to something she would be good at.

What did she do to deserve that? Nothing, she was doing what she should be and practicing. As the person above me said, I think it's ridiculous to tell someone 'oh didn't you know you have to do all this online research before even touching this game'. I have never done that, or heard of such nonsense in any other MMO I have ever played before in my life... and I have played a lot of MMO's.

As I said before, Yoshi-P even said the first 50 for players is a tutorial to help people learn how to play the game. While online tutorials etc are helpful, it shouldn't be necessary. Being a teacher, some students are good book learners (read it and get it) and some are more hands on (they can read and watch til the pass out, but they need to experience it first hand).

If a player, any player new, old etc is being rude or not listening then yes they get what they deserve. But players who listen, who are willing to learn, want the help or advice? They aren't doing anything to deserve that type of treatment. No matter what way we look at it, being rude to someone simply because they are new or being rude to another player period... there is no good excuse for doing it.

Did you quote the wrong person?

I was speaking to OP and his/her rant.

Some high leveler hissing at a low player is nothing I was talking about in the post you quoted. It was about someone expecting their party to smell that they are new.

Maybe you are not that long in the game, the leaf? I don't know when they added it, sometime in August while I was on vacation, before that you had no idea who the new player was. It doesn't say "This is a new player" it says "There is one or more new players with you". And I haven't seen a leaf in dungeons yet, well most of the time I either keep in check I don't lose hate or keep the party alive and don't look at anything but the Agro and Healthbars.

Don't misunderstand me, being outright rude to a new player, or someone that seems new, is not OK.

But players can get agitated, when they want to help out, and don't get a single response.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

Also, when a person is going into a dungeon for the first time it says 'this is a new player you get extra credit for completing this', so people don't need teacup to help them.

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And? It doesn't tell you which of the other 3/7 are new, just that one is. AND it doesn't tell if that person knows their own job either. The person could be new but learned their job like a pro and have zero issues at all, or ignored all the information about their job thrown at them, and fail miserably. What about the people who aren't new to the content, but got carried when they were and STILL don't know anything about the fights, or did it months ago and this is their second time in months and they've forgotten(no excuse imo, but it happensI guess)? Neither of those will send you a "new player" message.

I'd say this boils down to a matter of personal experience. I'm always nice to new players. If I feel like their performance is bothering me, I just refrain from saying anything at all. I'm only going to be stuck playing with them for about 30 minutes in a dungeon. The players that annoy me the most, are the "know-it-alls" that, in fact, know very little about what they're doing.

First of all, there is no reason absolutely to be rude to another player. If they are not meeting expectations go ahead and gripe or rant about it but NOT TO THEM or not AT THEM.

I'm new/was new. I never played an MMO that had the holy trinity and whatnot. I ran mostly with friends because I learned early on that queueing up solo as a ranged dps took forever so I knew what to expect. Just boss mechanics. By character, I always like to look things up ahead of time. I like to be prepared. I like to know what is ahead of me. I think this has led me to not having had the same experiences that newer players have had but by no means am I justifying the nastiness they encountered just by making a mistake or two in the beginning.

When I first started in open world I had just died to one of the first instances (not a dungeon iirc). I did not have physick and was just a THM. A random passerby stopped, raised me, and casted protect and stoneskin on me. I thanked them and they were incredibly nice. Perhaps that has skewed my experience but I have -never- seen the toxic party chats people employ. No one has ever said anything to me about being new when I said it.

I have seen 'watch in inn" comments but I generally say "if you want to watch, watch, but if most people want to keep going we're going to go since the group sets the pace and most of the group thinks they can set X pace."

It had been so long since I did the GLA/PLD stuff. I was leveling SCH and doing low level roulettes. Several times I've been in Toto-Rak and the gladiators didn't have shield lob. I'd noticed they were just walking up (and maybe flashing) but not lobbing. I mentioned using lob would help and they didn't say why. Another in party reminded me that it was a class quest given skill. He thanked us and said he'd not done them but he'll start doing them when he got out! Another gladiator had the same thing.

I've also had it be pretty frustrating with newer tanks who.... no matter how many times I asked "[Please][Flash]" they didn't. I even went on to say that "If I heal you and you don't [Flash] or hit the others, I'll immediately get hit their attention. Please flash so I don't die." One time one of them finally answered, saying he was new and on PS4.

... but he still never flashed. Or did the 1-2 combo even though we were polite "If you do Fast Blade->Savage Blade and a couple of Flashes we won't have any problems"... nope.

Sometimes people will listen and it's extremely gratifying to just be helpful. Other times... yeah it doesn't happen and it is frustrating because not only can their be fun be ruined but so are the other 3/7 peoples' fun.

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Originally Posted by ispano

And? It doesn't tell you which of the other 3/7 are new, just that one is. AND it doesn't tell if that person knows their own job either. The person could be new but learned their job like a pro and have zero issues at all, or ignored all the information about their job thrown at them, and fail miserably. What about the people who aren't new to the content, but got carried when they were and STILL don't know anything about the fights, or did it months ago and this is their second time in months and they've forgotten(no excuse imo, but it happensI guess)? Neither of those will send you a "new player" message.

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You're right it doesn't tell you who is new. which is why I usually say something along the lines of "hey I see someone is new, if ya need any help just let me know but let's have fun on the run~!" I have had new players tell me sometimes they afraid to tell people they are new because they have been snapped at, told they suck, criticized or people bail out of the party. If we are just polite off the bat, then maybe they would be more open to taking advice.

As to others, people should learn, if a player gets to 50 and doesn't know their jobs still, then maybe that isn't the best job for them. Unfortunately there is no magical answer on how to deal with people that anyone can give.

I think the biggest point of this tread people keep forgetting is the fact that people are rude to one another. Old to new, new to old and old to old. Why? Why do we have to snap, be rude put people down, tell them they suck if they are lvl 17 and just starting? Why? There is no good reason.

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Originally Posted by Kimikryo

Maybe you are not that long in the game, the leaf? I don't know when they added it, sometime in August while I was on vacation, before that you had no idea who the new player was. It doesn't say "This is a new player" it says "There is one or more new players with you". And I haven't seen a leaf in dungeons yet, well most of the time I either keep in check I don't lose hate or keep the party alive and don't look at anything but the Agro and Healthbars.

Don't misunderstand me, being outright rude to a new player, or someone that seems new, is not OK.

But players can get agitated, when they want to help out, and don't get a single response.

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Nah I have been in the game since alpha and beta of 1.0 back in 2010. Been around a very long time now and the community was very kind in 1.0...never had these issues that 2.0 is seeing.

The leaf thing is newer, but a good way to know if someone is new though I will admit not 100% sure if it show sup in dugeons. As to the second, yeah I got the wording wrong, lol... but still it's let people know that there is someone in the dungeon and it's their first time. A general 'hey if anyone needs help or advice let us know before we get started' fixes that quickl :)

And no I was just saying in general since you'd brought that up. While some people do deserve to be snapped at if they are rude first, or it can get frustrating when people don't communicate, there are people that don't fit in that. A lot of the new people I meet don't really do anything except try to learn their job, communicate, ask for help and still get snapped at for no reason. I don't know how many times I've had to tell someone else in a DF to chill because we have a new player and they wanna be rude to them.

Maybe I'm lucky in the fact that I have never met a rude new player, can't say as much for older players. While most are nice, there are many more that are rude. It's just sad, and it's not just new players. Even with old players, people are rude to others. I've never seen so much negativity in a MMO before. I have spoken about this several times over the years, but people just keep saying the same stuff to defend their bad attitudes. It's just not right.

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Originally Posted by AngelMoon

From the sounds of it, you don't know your rotation, know the run, and don't have a keyboard to communicate, and im guessing you didn't look up guides for the run as well? Sorry, but I really don't feel sorry for you.

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From the sounds of it you don't read very well or you may have picked up that she was talking about her past and how ppl are still rude to new players

If someone announces they're new at the start of a dungeon, or if I see the 100 Myth/exp bonus thing on the screen, I will usual tailor my play style to accommodate, often giving a short blurb before a miniboss/boss about what to look out for, and I'll go ahead and mark mobs much more thoroughly than usual. This might be easier for me though since I usually do dungeons as a tank and as a tank I can control/lead the situation a little more effectively.

If they don't give any indication though, I will assume they know what they're doing and will assume they're a bad player, lol.

All i see in this thread are people arguing nuances of their opinion as why it's right. You know what i see? People who all need to remember this game is a privilege. If you don't like the internet, it's not for everyone. If someone's gonna cry or self-harm over what others say without seeking personal help then they've got a couple of choices. Quit playing, or get better. Yeah people being mean isn't nice. When i played ffxi my first mmo, i read the manual and terms of service. They make you click to agree to abide by it. Its unfortunate that your friend didn't realize how to report abuse or harassment nor did they know enough about the internet to leave their ps4 or turn it off when it began to cause them personal distress. I won't be back to check on what anyone has to say so you can ignore this post if you like, as is your right.

Hoping that stupidity dies off eventually,

Sainya

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Originally Posted by Sainya

All i see in this thread are people arguing nuances of their opinion as why it's right. You know what i see? People who all need to remember this game is a privilege. If you don't like the internet, it's not for everyone. If someone's gonna cry or self-harm over what others say without seeking personal help then they've got a couple of choices. Quit playing, or get better. Yeah people being mean isn't nice. When i played ffxi my first mmo, i read the manual and terms of service. They make you click to agree to abide by it. Its unfortunate that your friend didn't realize how to report abuse or harassment nor did they know enough about the internet to leave their ps4 or turn it off when it began to cause them personal distress. I won't be back to check on what anyone has to say so you can ignore this post if you like, as is your right.

Hoping that stupidity dies off eventually,

Sainya

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https://hownottobeacrazybitch.files....and-kettke.jpg

Please do not let the door hit you on the way out. It's called general discussion for a reason, and within GD are a -gasp- mix of people who house different backgrounds and opinions! :D Why you would even see fit to post in a topic you felt people are being "stupid" for discussing?

I feel no sympathy whatsoever. Yes people should be nice, but if you want people to be nice you need to be a person worthy of "niceness". Coming on here and complaining that the community is horrible and everyone should be nice to you "just because it's right" is just as rude and selfish as the people who were mean to you.

The fact that you found this forum, means you have all the answers that you need to resolve this issue. Need to know more about tanking because people say you aren't good enough? Go to the tank forums and do some research, same as all the rest of us did when we were new. Google is your friend. If you had educated yourself to the best of ability and done your part, then you might have a leg to stand on. Having done no research or preparation (note the keyboard, this is a MUST if you want to play an MMO. MMO's ABSOLUTELY depend on communication), you set yourself up to fail in every way. What did you expect to happen?

Not saying that they were right though. They weren't. Just that the situation is 100% in your control in this scenario, and you already have the tools you need to change it.

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Originally Posted by Sainya

All i see in this thread are people arguing nuances of their opinion as why it's right. You know what i see? People who all need to remember this game is a privilege. If you don't like the internet, it's not for everyone. If someone's gonna cry or self-harm over what others say without seeking personal help then they've got a couple of choices. Quit playing, or get better. Yeah people being mean isn't nice. When i played ffxi my first mmo, i read the manual and terms of service. They make you click to agree to abide by it. Its unfortunate that your friend didn't realize how to report abuse or harassment nor did they know enough about the internet to leave their ps4 or turn it off when it began to cause them personal distress. I won't be back to check on what anyone has to say so you can ignore this post if you like, as is your right.

Hoping that stupidity dies off eventually,

Sainya

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You are my least favorite person in this thread gor the following reasons:
1) You say something you know most wont like, and then you say you wont be back because you dont want people to make a post disagreeing with you if they think youll never see it.
2) You sign your name at the bottom, when I can just look by your characters picture and see your name there. Its stupid.

Though I do agree on your point. Is someone is self harming or has clear and severe emotional distress from the internet, all they have to do is not go to the place that gives said distress. Unlike say... your work, you CAN elect not to go to certain places on the internet. Though whether this excuses being mean to new players is up for debate

When I played my first MMO I read all of the in-game guides. In fact I did research on the game before even downloading it.

Someone said that it's "common sense" to train every newbie you come cross. I can't fathom how someone can believe that. Whats common sense is to read the guides to help you when you're a newbie. Newbies aren't entitled to a vets knowledge of the game or their time. It's selfish to think that they're entitled to it, in my opinion.

You don't read any guide, made a mistake and someone pointed it out? You thought they did it rudely? Ok. Report them for being rude. But know that it's your fault that you got hurt. You put yourself into that situation. I'm sorry you're upset but hopefully you won't do it again.

Anyway, from my experience, it's not the vets that are mean. It's the newbies.

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Originally Posted by Renen

You are my least favorite person in this thread gor the following reasons:
1) You say something you know most wont like, and then you say you wont be back because you dont want people to make a post disagreeing with you if they think youll never see it.
2) You sign your name at the bottom, when I can just look by your characters picture and see your name there. Its stupid.

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This a thousand times lol.

I'm sure they'll lurk/are anyway though.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

Well first off, there is the little leaf beside players names, that shows they are a new player and it doesn't go away until they have like 40 hours of in game play time. Also, when a person is going into a dungeon for the first time it says 'this is a new player you get extra credit for completing this', so people don't need teacup to help them.

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Well, the little sprout can be misleading. It doesn't differentiate between new player and a new character of an experienced player. The little sprout icon showed up on my alt on Behemoth and I had made that character nearly a year ago.

But on topic, in game and in real life, things would be a lot better if people didn't treat each other like garbage.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

But on topic, in game and in real life, things would be a lot better if people didn't treat each other like garbage.

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"But you deserve to be treated like garbage because you didn't buy a mouse/keyboard, real all guides, google all MMO lingos, and theorycraft all gear and study all dungeons before entering and playing. And how dare you ask for help in game! Haven't you heard of google? Your an idiot."

See what I did there? This entire thread is a circular argument. It's "us vs "them" those that enjoy interaction, asking questions, being patient and explaining things and being nice to new people, vs those that think your an idiot and need to google everything and be prepared before you play any content in this game, because how dare you inconvenience them with your rubbish noobness.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

Well, the little sprout can be misleading. It doesn't differentiate between new player and a new character of an experienced player. The little sprout icon showed up on my alt on Behemoth and I had made that character nearly a year ago.

But on topic, in game and in real life, things would be a lot better if people didn't treat each other like garbage.

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That is correct, it goes on any character (be it a new player period or an alt someone has made) as long as it has 40 ours or less play time. But then again, if it's an alt, they should know what they are doing and not really need help. :) It can also be turned off if people wish, if i remember correctly.

And yes, I 100% agree with you. It's a shame people have to treat others badly... used to have a friend like that. It made them feel good to put other people down, obviously we aren't friends anymore. I don't need that kinda toxic outlook in my life., I just try to treat people the way I wish they would treat me. Not perfect, no one is, but I try my best to be a nice person. :)

One of my friends, made a comment about something else to me but it kinda relates. She basically said: "People are people, and sometimes you can't change them. You can make suggestions and try to make things better for all involved, but if they can't see the issues that come from their actions then nothing will ever happen until it's too late."

You are just as wrong as they, in demanding that others teach what they know. Respect is a two way street. They have no obligation to teach you anything until you pay them and they agree to do the job, then you can call it a responsibility. But a stranger in a group where on the duty finder screen it tells you what you will be expected to do when you choose to enter? Neither of you has any responsibility other than to do the job you signed up for when you clicked "join" to enter the queue. If you can't do the job you agreed to do on that screen, then yes people have a right to be upset with you.

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Originally Posted by AngelMoon

From the sounds of it, you don't know your rotation, know the run, and don't have a keyboard to communicate, and im guessing you didn't look up guides for the run as well? Sorry, but I really don't feel sorry for you.

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This is an example of one of those that wishes to be carried. Expect you to read guides on Sastasha and do extensive research on the Fast Blade/Savage Blade combo available at level 15. The OP said they were new to MMO gaming. How are they supposed to know rotations and that guides even exist? That only comes with experience and someone guiding them along the way.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

The term "enmity" has been in use since FFXI - which, if memory serves me correctly, precedes WoW. That in no way shows someone's a "newbie" - especially if we're just using the terms that the developers use. I have no idea what makes you think using a different term indicates how much MMO experience they have. I despise the word "toon," does that make me a newbie?

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Someone didn't read the whole post. I did say EQ, and aggro is a term we used in 1999. Sorry, but FFXI wasn't out in 1999. And yes if you played Years after I did, you are a 'newbie' compared to me. What's wrong with that? Does that make you suddenly worse at the game? Probably not. But does it mean you are less experienced in online gaming than I am? Probably so. I've got a few years on you. Don't feel bad or insulted by it. I've played multiple games, dealt with thousands of different players and dozens of communities. That just means I have a little more insight then someone who doesn't. Doesn't make me a better player at the current game so doing get bent out of shape by it.

Something I said struck you inside. You might want to take a look at what that is, because I surely didn't make the post to insult you personally. But you sure took it as such, or at least appear to be.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

You are just as wrong as they, in demanding that others teach what they know. Respect is a two way street. They have no obligation to teach you anything until you pay them and they agree to do the job, then you can call it a responsibility. But a stranger in a group where on the duty finder screen it tells you what you will be expected to do when you choose to enter? Neither of you has any responsibility other than to do the job you signed up for when you clicked "join" to enter the queue. If you can't do the job you agreed to do on that screen, then yes people have a right to be upset with you.

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It's not about demanding anything, if that is what you think. It is about giving and receiving respect, kindness and patience. A person shouldn't go into a low level dungeon, knowing there will most likely be new players and then put them down, tell them they suck and that they aren't good at their job. They are still learning, what has someone at that level done to deserve such a reaction?

If people are going to go into a low level dungeon and be rude, knowing there is a high possibility they will get someone who doesn't know the jobs 100% because they are learning, then either don't go in low level dungeons or at least be patient enough to get though it and/or offer help if they would like some. That is what the OP was saying for the most part. Don't put someone down for being new and still learning.

And we do have a responsibility. It take a full team to get though a dungeon, it's called teamwork. We are supposed to work together and do our jobs to the best of our ability to complete said mission that we were given.

Yes I will agree, people have a right to be upset if you can't play your job. But I expect an experienced person to know their jobs, not someone who just started and is still learning.

If one person in here was 100% perfect their very first job the moment they logged in for the first time and: never made one mistake, never died once, never messed up, never had to be taught one thing about their jobs, or was given advice by someone in a dungeon in a Ls or in a FC... then you're free to tell me otherwise.

But I know I have not only asked for advice and messed up, I've also given advice and tried to help instead of throwing a temper tantrum at someone who was making mistakes. That doesn't get me though a dungeon any faster... actually most dungeons where someone is throwing a fit, it took longer to get though because of them, not the person messing up.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Someone didn't read the whole post. I did say EQ, and aggro is a term we used in 1999.

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A little off-topic, but here's a fun list of words for the same exact thing:
Enmity: Hate, threat, aggro, argo (some people can't say aggro correctly :P), attn (i can't remember what game that's from...)
Most games these days use "threat" or "hate," with the more purple prose-ish ones using "enmity." Aggro has fallen by the wayside, but some of us still use it, especially since it's so easy to type.

When you use duty finder, you get random people. If you have a bad attitude playing with random people who have random amounts of experience and skill, then you are making groups fail, no matter how skilled you may be.

To pug successfully, you need to help out other people and cut people slack to help the group (and you) succeed and have fun. If you won't or can't do that, then you'll fail in pugs because you aren't using the right attitude and social skills to succeed.

A good player can make others around them better. A poor player can't and only focuses on themselves. I have been in pugs that started out failing, but then I made some jokes or encouraged people or explained stuff. Suddenly people were having fun instead of stressing out. That doesn't always result in a win, but a good attitude is more fun and can make the difference. A poor attitude can do nothing except make the group fail.

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Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

A good player can make others around them better. A poor player can't and only focuses on themselves. I have been in pugs that started out failing, but then I made some jokes or encouraged people or explained stuff. Suddenly people were having fun instead of stressing out. That doesn't always result in a win, but a good attitude is more fun and can make the difference. A poor attitude can do nothing except make the group fail.

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Makes me wonder if they could have a system in place where having more commendations makes you more likely to be paired with newer players. Though it'd probably be more trouble than its worth since tanks and healers get the lion's share of comms whether they're assholes or not.

I finally started leveling Glad recently. Joined a Manor (normal mode) run as tank. I mark my targets like most tanks would. Both DPS would just attack whomever they wanted. I finally asked them why they were attacking #2's and #3's before #1? They both replied they didn't know what the numbers meant. So...yeah. Don't assume people have a clue. Because many of the newer players have no idea what they are doing. lol

While your situation is regrettable, OP, communication counts for a lot in an online, group-based game. To them, you appeared to be ignoring well-intentioned advice, so it's understandable they would become a little testy.

I strongly recommend getting a keyboard... If you have a computer with a USB keyboard, you can even just use that. Or as others have suggested, a few macros would even go a long way.

Communication is key.