Ninja: Walk in shadow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

snip

---

If I remember right (could be wrong), during the beta, abilities like Tomahawk were actually on the DEX stat, but was changed to STR because it became a very weak ability, especially since VIT and STR are the primary stats WAR aims for and wouldn't put DEX in for just one ability. Anything can be changed around by the developer's will, that isn't really the argument. It is the reason of why these said concepts should be changed to begin with. SE has a simple, easy to understand stats. STR for melee, DEX for ranged DPS, INT for mages, MND for healer, etc. Changing this around goes against this simple concept the developers have created. Then again, they said that a system like Hunts and NM's wouldn't work and look what happened.

They could just very easily apply all Ninja's attack as "ranged". Then change the wording of DEX to mean something akin to agility.

Would you care? Nope. Unless you were/are saving Monk gear like I am, that is.

I think thats how they will go. DEX is for "Precision attacks" and STR is for "strong attack" or w/e

I'm kind of hoping they get their own gear for the most part so that no one can have a maxed out ninja right after release.

Will end up dwindling the number of people who want to play it if they can't have it, for the most part, complete content ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonus

I'm kind of hoping they get their own gear for the most part so that no one can have a maxed out ninja right after release.

Will end up dwindling the number of people who want to play it if they can't have it, for the most part, complete content ready.

---

Except Second Coil will be unlocked and I bet you people would very easily grind full gear set in 1~3 days.

Is it confirmed that the next turn is coming in 2.4? I missed that if it has been.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

SE has a simple, easy to understand stats.

---

Easy to understand if you disregard what the game itself says about the stats, sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonus

Is it confirmed that the next turn is coming in 2.4? I missed that if it has been.

---

They stated a long time ago that they're alternating Coil patches with CT patches. Last patch was a CT patch, so. . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonus

Is it confirmed that the next turn is coming in 2.4? I missed that if it has been.

---

yes /10char

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigmakan

DEX is for "Precision attacks" and STR is for "strong attack" or w/e

---

Works for Dark Souls

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I think thats how they will go. DEX is for "Precision attacks" and STR is for "strong attack" or w/e

---

Shall I repeat myself then? This system has too much perception to it, why would Monk then not be precision based, it's attacks using precision hits on the rear and flanks with speed to create high paced low damage attacks. So why is this perceptively STR and Ninja becomes DEX, what separates the two? and how would anyone new to the game be able to distinguish between them? How it is implemented at the moment there is no fuss, melee it STR, ranged is DEX simples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigmakan

I think thats how they will go. DEX is for "Precision attacks" and STR is for "strong attack" or w/e

---

LOL nope. STR is for melee attacks and DEX in for ranged attacks.

Hard concept to grasp I know that's why we are 17 pages long...

... I don't want to quote myself so...

The game is not made to have ranged attacks based on DEX and melee ones on STR, but with MNK/DRG/WAR/PLD using STR and BRD using DEX (btw i din't kow which stat is used with casters auto attacks)

As said previously, the war's tomahawk used to be DEX based, but the dev's changed it ^^

If the nin goes DEX, only the description text will change from "ranged" to "precision" or something.
This decision will be based on the balance of the game, not on the "lore" or "roleplay" inducted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

Shall I repeat myself then? This system has too much perception to it, why would Monk then not be precision based, it's attacks using precision hits on the rear and flanks with speed to create high paced low damage attacks. So why is this perceptively STR and Ninja becomes DEX, what separates the two? and how would anyone new to the game be able to distinguish between them? How it is implemented at the moment there is no fuss, melee it STR, ranged is DEX simples.

---

Monk skills give the illusion that they hit hard. Aesthetics.

This is what I think. Dex will be the main stat for Ninjas, it will only effect Mudras and ranged attacks (from the videos Mudras look to be all ranged attacks).

All melee attack will be Strength based. ( My bard has about 220 strength maybe lower i have to check but im at work)
Since Ninja's will have lower strength the mudras will have a really high potency to make up for some DPS
The Ninja gear left side only will have both strength and Dex Stats. Strength will cap out at about 65% max strength for the current iLvl
They can loot on all Bard accessories.

So lets say a Ninja with a ilvl of 110 and ilvl 115 weapon can push about about 320 with only melee attacks for Turn 8. If he use Mudras he can push about 470. So Mudras will count for about 25% total dps for a Ninja

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

Monk skills give the illusion that they hit hard. Aesthetics.

---

You sure about that? Cause they don't to me. And here in lies the point i'm getting at, it becomes entirely perception based.

People see things differently, there is no fact based logic to what is precision and what is strength, there is no standard to base it around. But what is a melee weapon and what is a ranged weapon is a logical fact you can use as a base.

And to melflomil, how would mudras be ranged? at the very least they are magical. Although if were to pull from a mixture of FFXIV lore and Naruto Lore (very loose area to pull from but the class was designed from this series so bear with me.) we find that Mudras or Ninjitsu come from chakra or spiritual and internal energy (Naruto). Translate this to FFXIV, monks are capable of manipulating FFXIV's version of Chakra to use with abilities like Second Wind, Internal Release, Mantra etc. Which would mean we can assume any chakra based abilities don't rely on magic power but on a characters main stat.

Although a mix of STR/DEX and INT would be interesting with Mudras becoming your main form of DPS , it would be difficult to implement until the expansion I feel.

Because everything in this game is logical.

EDIT: Pretty disappointed about this thread constantly being derailed about DEX or STR. There's a million other more interesting things to speculate and argue about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Because everything in this game is logical.

EDIT: Pretty disappointed about this thread constantly being derailed about DEX or STR. There's a million other more interesting things to speculate and argue about.

---

People just want to be ahead of the game when Ninja comes out if they do share a gear set with someone else is part of the argument. At this point the debate is mostly just a battle of logic. We can't get much more information from Ninja than the short video and the information given in interviews, so there isn't much to discuss till developers give more information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sigmakan

Because everything in this game is logical.

---

So we should remove the aspects that are logical?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

You sure about that? Cause they don't to me. And here in lies the point i'm getting at, it becomes entirely perception based.

---

I am sure. Only a few of the skills seem precision driven; One Ilm Punch, Touch of Death, and Demolish. All the others give the impression they should knock a hole through a bolder. However, the numbers don't really match.

Personally, I don't want NIN to be DEX. I think that'd be very annoying, but if it does happen there better be a good reason why they are using what is supposed to be the stat for Ranged based classes on a melee class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

I am sure. Only a few of the skills seem precision driven; One Ilm Punch, Touch of Death, and Demolish. All the others give the impression they should knock a hole through a bolder. However, the numbers don't really match.

Personally, I don't want NIN to be DEX. I think that'd be very annoying, but if it does happen there better be a good reason why they are using what is supposed to be the stat for Ranged based classes on a melee class.

---

So you read all of 8 words of what I said? Well done, keep at it you might be able to read full paragraphs eventually.

I'll explain it again What you see is not what everyone else sees hence why the system becomes entirely based on perception and conjecture.

But if you want my reasoning for monk seeming about precision rather than strength.

Bootshine --> Rear hit --> Crit

True Strike --> Rear Hit --> Increased potency

Snap Punch --> Flank hit --> Increased Potency

Twin Snakes --> Flank Hit --> Increased Potency

Dragon Kick --> Flank Hit --> Increase potency

Demolish --> Rear Hit --> Increased Potency


The above is the 6 major factors in monks rotation, all of which have damage increased by hitting from a certain angle or aiming for a precision hit on a certain part of the body

But that's just the way I see it, doesn't mean it's correct, doesn't mean your view is correct either. It does mean though that people can make perfectly good arguments for what would be seen as precision and what would be seen as strength with most classes.

Just make Ninja a ranged physical class that attacks with Throwing Knives, Shuriken and their ranged Mudra and be done with it :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

So you read all of 8 words of what I said? Well done, keep at it you might be able to read full paragraphs eventually.t

---

I did. Your argument is bounded in the mechanics of the skills, whereas mine is grounded in the actual graphic of the skill.

The difference of opinion will always be here, but that's why I believe Monk is currently STR even though it *could* be (DEX) precision based. It probably also lends to the fact that in previous iterations of Final Fantasy games, it was based on ATK/STR rather than AGI. That could be a factor too.

[QUOTE=Dynza;2299620]
-The rogue and ninja is a DPS class with a stealth option. In PvP it is intended to be a scouting type class by utilizing stealth and reporting to its allies.[QUOTE]
I was thinking that if a ninja did somehow manage to grab aggro, maybe the could have a smoke bomb ability to reduce it.

Kinda like a mix of Quelling Strike and Repelling Shot?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dat_Jynx

Kinda like a mix of Quelling Strike and Repelling Shot?

---

Or you know... Elusive jump.

Maybe that is what the teleport is for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JakzChurchill

Or you know... Elusive jump.

---

I was going for an attack that lowers enmity and gets you out of mob range. Not just something that gets you out of mob range with enmity loss. Maybe it could be something like a stun. The mob does a move that you can stun and jump back from using a smoke bomb for theatricality.

Guys let me throw a wrench into this one THEY"RE GOING TO USE INT FOR THEIR ABILITIES why because they can do whatever they want and change whatever they want to accommodate any decision they want. Its one thing to speculate but to say NO your opinion key word opinion is wrong. The major thing is they could rewrite the description of any stat they want to say blah blah blah affects the amount of goat damage you do and change all the classes to be based on goat stats. Most of the stats can be easily changed in a patch for example in the testing when they modified range abilities to be based on the classes main stat.

TLDR. wait for the live letter and stop bashing peoples opinions and discuss things like civilized people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dat_Jynx

I was going for an attack that lowers enmity and gets you out of mob range. Not just something that gets you out of mob range with enmity loss. Maybe it could be something like a stun. The mob does a move that you can stun and jump back from using a smoke bomb for theatricality.

---

So like.. elusive jump?

You basically said the same thing twice. You want a skill that lowers enmity (aka loses enmity) and gets you out of mob range.

Quelling strikes doesn't even lose any enmity, it just makes your attacks while it's up gain less enmity. Not very useful if you also jump out of range so you cant attack.

But you understand what I'm saying. And if you are producing less enmity than the other dps...

But also does an attack. Like I said you drop the smoke bomb and it stuns the mob. Or maybe adds a DOT.

Yes. It's already in-game and used by Dragoon as we've been saying. You just want a Ninja version of it.

I want my ninja to say "Bushinryu!" every time he gets the killing blow on a mob, then disappear for 3 seconds for a stealth attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestr

I want my ninja to say "Bushinryu!" every time he gets the killing blow on a mob, then disappear for 3 seconds for a stealth attack.

---

/em has defeated <t>!
/p Bushinryu!
/ac "stealth"
/wait 3
/ac "backstab"

or something like that.

copy/paste for later!

Excellent macro ^.^

Any news on the duration and functionality of stealth?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynric

/em has defeated <t>!
/p Bushinryu!
/ac "stealth"
/wait 3
/ac "backstab"



or something like that.

---

/blacklist add ninja

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necaust

Any news on the duration and functionality of stealth?

---

Wow is free to play up to level 20. Might as well make a subtlety rogue and see how that works. With summoner being a direct rip off of an affliction warlock you know the rogues will function similarly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaykos

Wow is free to play up to level 20. Might as well make a subtlety rogue and see how that works. With summoner being a direct rip off of an affliction warlock you know the rogues will function similarly.

---

"Direct rip off" ......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! oh you were serious? .........HAHAHAHA