A jack of all trades is a master of none. Whenever you build a static, you build with people playing their best class.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
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07-11-2014, 11:23 PMDwill
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07-11-2014, 11:42 PMSendohJinthis is incorrect. there's nothing more effective about Group 2 unless they have bad attendance and you need people to play their off jobs all the time to fill holes. your quantity/quality labels also make no sense. i'm i90+ on every job besides DRG (which is i87).Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
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07-11-2014, 11:59 PMJayCommonQuote:
Originally Posted by Nel_Celestine
I'm sorry to detract from this very enthralling discussion regarding the variety of endgame content in FFXIV...
But you...yes you Nel Celestine....
Your signature is amazing!
Carry on. /popcorn -
07-12-2014, 02:55 AMAttacKatSo, you have a master of 8-10 people, vs me having a jack of all trades of 8-10 people. Personally, I do not find it hard to master endgame skill rotation, just need to do it a few times and you are done learning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
Now, in your group, there are only 2 possible duplicate classes, if that many. So, if any of the other 6 classes are offline, you have no group. Whereas in my group, everyone having 4-jack-of-all-trade classes, I have effectively the same as 3-4 static groups, and I can play as long as I have 8 people on.
The Master players will progress very slowly, since you will have less play time, as well as unusable loot, and the jack of all trades group will move at a much quicker pace since they are consistently building up their iLvls on more classes to make them even more effective.
If SE wants you to be a Master of ONE class, they would have designed the game characters as such, but they didn't.
To bring this back on track, SE didn't design this game to be a ONE class game, therefore, neither is their end-game content. You are done with end-game for one class? Excellent !! Now go build up your 18 other classes.
jc -
07-12-2014, 03:07 AMKalleraThis, quite honestly, sounds depressing as all hell, and I wouldn't' expect this of any player I partied with. The endgame can be called what it is without having to beat T9 on Botanist.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
And if one found the endgame unsatisfying, what point is there in getting to the same boredom on a different job? -
07-12-2014, 03:40 AMDwillWhat kind of backward logic is that ? If you can't get people to show up to your raid, that's not a matter of how many classes you got leveled, that's a matter of you recruiting unreliable people. Progress neither is related to amount of classes leveled but to how good your people are.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
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07-12-2014, 04:32 AMTiggyFalse. They'd be the same. You enter a static playing a specific job and you always play that specific job. The only odd point is when a tank can go DPS in T8. Otherwise both groups will always be doing the same thing. Otherwise loot rolls each week would get all out of whack easily. Why would I give for example a monk body to someone who plays monk on 1 turn instead of the monk who uses it on every single turn? That's why you have a career monk so that loot is always going to them making that monk more powerful for progress through the turns faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
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07-12-2014, 05:01 AMGardthorneIt is inherently impossible for any developer of any game in this genre to keep up with this type of player. It's pointless to try and satisfy them so they won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
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07-12-2014, 05:23 AMDagger_32
Oh God, I never want to hit level 50. Look at what you turn into.
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07-12-2014, 05:40 AMNel_CelestineQuote:
Originally Posted by JayCommon
Why thank you, that's very sweet -
07-12-2014, 05:45 AMTestSubject09Well, apologies everyone, I originally hit my daily post cap (this forum has the worst restrictions I have ever seen in any forum ever...)Quote:
Originally Posted by AttacKat
I don't know where to begin truly... but I had to quote you.
Your response... is bad, its the same horrible excuses Guild Wars 2 fanbosy made "oh this game isnt about endgame now you just gotta grind every other class up to max!" .... you can do that in ANY MMO EVER. your skill is not dependant on your classes leveled. your logic is incredibly flawed. just stop. its embarrassing. -
07-12-2014, 05:49 AMTestSubject09If you can't grasp the concept that people want HARD 24 mans that have variety and try to shove coil (savage) (something NOBODY EVER ASKED FOR) as an acceptable substitute then so be it. also, all of the casuals and hardcore want gear/stat progression alike ... and challenges should be rewarded... a title is rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeganLaron
but yea, you sound exactly like the guild wars 2 fanboys that said "oh you can run fractals 100x to up the difficulty ..." oh fantaastic..... run 4 mini areas over and over forever with a slight tune adjustment SOUND FAMILIAR?
seeing the same mistakes repeated. uits why TWITCH doesn't give a damn about this game.... and most of the PvE'rs looking for something more than daily grind ands 4 turns coil for 6 months have gone.
simply put... the end-game choices are awful, your justifications against those that want MORE DEPTH to it are bad. -
07-12-2014, 05:49 AMsilentwindfr
exept he is partially right, do your jobs as monk in a fight will be quite different than the one of a white mage or a tank.
indeed with the scripted fight, the difference are not that important, but if you try to play your class at the max, it will be complicated to do it in any situation without learn some tricks.
however, i must say, they bring content every 3 month, but i think the trouble come from your own consuption of the game. the hardcore gaming is always a trouble for a mmorpg! and will be forever since is not possible to please them in anyway.
ps: and insult people everytime will not make your point more valid. very often content at 24 player are way easier than 8-10-15 player content, why? because you have less the right to the error in this setup, in bigger setup you always have people that slacks or do shit.
finally, like said before, don't expect a change of the Raid before an expansion and i doubt they will really bring hard content for 24 player anyway. -
07-12-2014, 06:05 AMTestSubject09
I think what alot of you fail to grasp is. the lure of large scale PvE isn;t just the difficulty of the mechanics, its the difficulty of organisation and overcoming those mechanics with a larger team. yet you can't see this side of, why are you so hell bent on trying to find twisted justifications to peg people into certain ideals to suit WHY something shouldn't exist?
Anyone here saying "Savage has a challenge, hardcore raiders clearly don't want a challenge, they want loots!" .... yet 99% of the content in this game rewards you with something.... with no challenge too...
Everything added in 2.3 is easy(ish) ... it all rewards you... for camping, for grinding.... the dungeons are no harder than the last. yet this is ok justification.
ugh, headache inducing... truly. kill 2 A class NMs and you have a ilvl 90 piece of gear.... and oils to get gear levels you didn't earn with any challenge, just camp and grind... and you complain about US? -
07-12-2014, 06:35 AMsilentwindfr
no one complain exept you... it's like this since the start, when the 2.1 did come out we had people do exactly what you do. and someone will do exactly the same at the 2.5 and 2.7.... they are filling patch that allows the mass to stuff themself for what come at the next patch...
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07-12-2014, 07:00 AMAndevom
The number of ellipses in these posts is staggering.
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07-12-2014, 07:57 AMKarnyboy
Hai guyz, my pixel penis is THIS 8=============================================D big!!!1111!!
Maybe it's because I'm old, but the amount of complaining on these boards in regards to content, etc are because a lot of you can't log out and go do something else with your life. Game is not going anywhere and I highly doubt that you will be the "first" in anything in this day and age, SOMEONE will be better than you, you can guarantee it.
Content is only out of date for those that can't see the bigger picture.
I was the first one to do a quest back in the Asheron's Call days, submit the pics for it and throw in a little strategy guide, and you know what? Nobody cares anymore and nobody cared then except me. So the sooner a lot of you start looking at the game as optional entertainment and less like a chore (I HAVE to grind ATMA, I HAVE to complete Coil, I HAVE to cap Soldiery every week) the happier you will be. You have friends in the game? GOOD! They will not care to help a friend out with old content as you deem it if the moment did arise.
Why? The answer is simple, because friends like playing together. It's not about being the best between friends, it's about having fun and succeeding with friends. -
07-12-2014, 08:28 AMDwillI swear, this thread is a breeding ground for sweeping generalization and illogical assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnyboy
This is your definition of fun and is since fun is highly subjective, you can't apply it as a general rule to everyone. -
07-12-2014, 09:11 AMKarnyboy
Call it what you will, but all I see is bitching and moaning from players like yourself who blame someone else.
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07-12-2014, 09:17 AMmarewa
――The third major patch, Patch 2.3, was released on July 8th. Based on impressions, it appears as if Patch 2.2 was catered to the hardcore users, while 2.3 is designed for the casual players. Was this deliberate?
To a certain extent, yes. Just as we have continued to implement the "Echo" in our patches, not everything is always focused on the latest end-game. But whenever the maximum item level is raised in a patch, we do need to include powerful items and the appropriately-difficult contents to match. And in the following patch, we'll want to fill in the power gap created by this increase with a variety of fun contents, such as what we did in 2.3. That is the basic patch cycle with FFXIV. -
07-12-2014, 09:20 AMDwillHypocritical statement. Casuals are no better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnyboy
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07-12-2014, 09:26 AMSeekerScorpioLike the biggest thing casuals like to cry excessively nowadays is Scylla and unfortunately that fight will get nerfed thanks to their self entitled laziness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
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07-13-2014, 12:01 AMKarnyboyI'm casual and I'm not complaining. There's your sweeping generalization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
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07-13-2014, 12:03 AMKarnyboy
On another note if your group can't get past Scylla then their in for a treat...They should maybe give up gaming.
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07-14-2014, 01:13 AMSaikou
For casuals trying to pull together random people through party finder to down Turn 5, the echo buff is insufficient. And don't tell me it's supposed to be ridiculously hard. Clearly, the echo was added to Coil because they wanted casuals to be able to do it. BUT THE ECHO DOESN'T WORK. Dead man does no dps, no healing, no tanking. I have played at length over the current weekend trying to down turn 5. Even made some friends in the process. But it always comes down to 2-3 people not getting divebombs or snakes, it seems. It seems like once everyone finally gets the fight, if that even happens, raiders fatigue sets in and we get fucked over because everyone starts making stupid mistakes. I have wasted 2 entire days on this. I understand full well how it works. That's time I'll never get back. How much more frustrated would I be if I worked 40 hours a week and had significant family responsibilities?
I don't know what to say about the lack of variety of content. I just feel like we don't have a variety of content. This fluff of which the OP speaks of, it's unsatisfactory. We launched with 4 dungeons, 3 intended to be easily completed by casuals. That's unnaceptable by any stretch of the imagination. I'd like to know where the other 8 man dungeons are myself. The fun of doing Castrum with 7 other people is what made launch content bearable, to be perfectly honest. My world had an FC that was helping people down Titan for Relic and Coil access. This group no longer exists. The game for casuals is basically, do your daily roulette, do your weekly challenge log, do dailies and mark bills if it pleases you, and thats about it. We're stuck with all this 4 man content. And don't get me wrong, Tam-Tara hard creeped me out in a good way. But running that for the next 3 months... I dunno, I just never liked the 4 man dungeons as much as Castoreum. I ran Labrynth into the ground. I did. I like that high man, accessible content so much. The upper tier players are right to ask for 24 man content aimed at them. Binding Coil doesn't even feel like a traditional raid dungeon, tbh. The only turn with trash is t1, basically. Unless you want to count t3, which, while fun, has no incentive to do more than once due to its lack of rewards. This is a shame, because the mechanics of t3 are extremely fun. I was happy to see that kind of mechanic used again in Circus Tower.
I feel like SE has this "slow rollout" philosophy. Its the only way to explain why significant pieces of content, like frontlines, weren't introduced to the game until almost a year after launch. As the rewards don't really cross over to PVE at all, I haven't even tried it yet. In WoW, I did battlegrounds from time to time because, though not the best suited to PvE, honor gear could be used to fill the gaps in your armor set to achieve a desired item level. You lost out on 1 secondary stat, but this was acceptable as a casual. I don't really think we do have our fluff, to be honest. I feel like we need the gold saucer bad. I mean, even FFXI had things like pankration. WoW has it's Pandokamon, Farmville, and Fight Club. We could use some of these things.
I can't help but feel like SE, Yoshida, et al have become victims of their own success. They didn't expect the expansive playerbase that they got, so they didn't sink much money into the amount of content it would take to keep the interest of each segment of the playerbase. I imagine most high-level raiders see Savage Coil as a bandaid. I mean, you get your bragging rights title. In that other game, there would be more shinies. And I'm saying this as a casual who would never see this stuff - I'm only imagining what the game must feel like for a high-level raiding player right now.
I could find the situation SE is in forgivable, as I believe they are working towards planning for the playerbase they now know they have and are incorporating our feedback into whatever may come. I just find it egregious that the devs seem to want casuals to be able to take a crack at SCOB, but seem to have not even considered that merely increasing our stats does nothing for punishing instant-death and positional mechanics. One person out of sync can wipe your entire group on Twin. This is true on many other encounters, but Twin is so punishing even with boosted health that the echo is pretty irrelevant. We could be stuck with our ilvl90-100 gear with no echo boost and we'd be running into the same problems in the same phases.
I kinda don't understand why TBCOB wasn't initially designed with two difficulty settings initially, just like that other game, where the easier setting could be tuned to even less difficulty over time while the hard mode could be kept hard for those who like it that way and want the better rewards that go along with it. The existence of Savage Coil is pretty much a confirmation that they CAN do this. -
07-14-2014, 01:38 PMHeavenlyArmedAll I'm going to say here is it seems like you're vastly overestimating the amount of desire for that type of content within this game's playerbase. Taking just a brief look at all the people complaining about being unable to get through, say, Titan EX because it's so difficult to find merely 7 other players who can do it, do you really think this playerbase wants content where they have to deal with that times 3?Quote:
Originally Posted by TestSubject09
Now, I'm not going to disagree with you on the fact that a mere 4 raid bosses every 6 months is lacking. The fact that a certain MMO with way more subscribers has the budget to be able to introduce more content of this type at a time shouldn't really be surprising, though. More subs = more money = more budget to pay more people to work on more content. I, like many others, do hope that they start introducing more raid content at a time at some point, perhaps even testing the waters on hardcore content for larger groups, but I won't go so far as to say a game which is clearly thriving is on the verge of failing due to not appealing enough to the hardcore crowd, when there's still a hardcore crowd in the game that seems plenty happy with how the game is right now.