Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

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Originally Posted by Xayoc

You forget, Asian companies like grindfests. Look at anything put out by NCSoft, absolute grindfest. It was only a matter of time before much grinding was required for something in this game.

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that may be true, but at least when you make a Legendary in GW2 that is by far the best weapon in the game, and it will always be in every future update.
Relic Animus (so you have to do the 12 fates + 13500 Mythology, that is WAY more than a Legendary in GW2) is 15 levels under the best weapon in the game. It's not even close to the best weapon in the game. Not to mention that in the near future (well, it's already hard) nobody will do the basic Relic quest anymore.

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Originally Posted by Alkel

FATES grinding is just the worst idea possible.

We hate FATE!! its a poor content!

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I'm pretty sure whatever will be the method, will always be in forum a post like:

"<used method> is just the worst idea possible.

We hate <used method>!! its a poor content!"

I could care less about the time involvement, I just think the devs need a wake up call on regards to FATE. We know it's half assed pseudo content that you guys think you can attach to real content to somehow not have to spend time making real content. You aren't fooling anyone by making events and quests and then tying them to the already shitty existing fates.

Fate in it's current form is not engaging enough for how much the devs rely on it for filler content. They really need to go back to the drawing board and make fate into something better than it is if they are going to keep cramming it down our throats with alternate content.

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Originally Posted by Tano

that may be true, but at least when you make a Legendary in GW2 that is by far the best weapon in the game, and it will always be in every future update.
Relic Animus (so you have to do the 12 fates + 13500 Mythology, that is WAY more than a Legendary in GW2) is 15 levels under the best weapon in the game. It's not even close to the best weapon in the game. Not to mention that in the near future (well, it's already hard) nobody will do the basic Relic quest anymore.

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A grind is a grind, doesn't matter if it's for the best weapon or not. People ask for long term goals, not they got it. Please enjoy. :)

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I could care less about the time involvement, I just think the devs need a wake up call on regards to FATE. We know it's half assed pseudo content that you guys think you can attach to real content to somehow not have to spend time making real content. You aren't fooling anyone by making events and quests and then tying them to the already shitty existing fates.

Fate in it's current form is not engaging enough for how much the devs rely on it for filler content. They really need to go back to the drawing board and make fate into something better than it is if they are going to keep cramming it down our throats with alternate content.

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I don't remember grinding for anything in any game felt engaging, you're just going through the motions to get it over with.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I could care less about the time involvement, I just think the devs need a wake up call on regards to FATE. We know it's half assed pseudo content that you guys think you can attach to real content to somehow not have to spend time making real content. You aren't fooling anyone by making events and quests and then tying them to the already shitty existing fates.

Fate in it's current form is not engaging enough for how much the devs rely on it for filler content. They really need to go back to the drawing board and make fate into something better than it is if they are going to keep cramming it down our throats with alternate content.

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How would you improve it? "Make it better" adds nothing.

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

A grind is a grind, doesn't matter if it's for the best weapon or not. People ask for long term goals, not they got it. Please enjoy. :)

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Long goal for a good weapon. Between Relic Animus is sometimes weaker then Leviathan Extreme weapon and very close to Twintania weapon. It's pointless. Only a complete retard would bother.

It's just a bad (and probably random) gear progression design. Don't even try to blame the users. They were at rage when thay made Twintania weapons 5 levels above Relic+1, and asked to make Relic+1 harder instead of (relatively) nerfing it.

Not they made it harder AND they nerfed it to the point that is weaker compared to weapons easier to get.

hm...
I wonder...
Working 2 years on one job powering up spending love and so...
To try something else because its becoming boring or just for fun taking another job now...
Locked out of content because stupid DPS race on most cotent in FFXIV:ARR...
Spending again 1 year just to catch up...
... realize too late that now both jobs are outdated because the 3 month progress in new content with linear item powerups!

Note: Thats a future example, that can possible happen if SE follow their current path

I am interested how new players feel about?
Timesink was never a solution to any problem!

When I heard something about "time to progress" firtstly i thought great, giving the weapon away and gaining it back after time... but to have stupid grinding (once again), all motivation is gone...

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Originally Posted by Tano

Long goal for a good weapon. Between Relic Animus is sometimes weaker then Leviathan Extreme weapon and very close to Twintania weapon. It's pointless. Only a complete retard would bother.

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Looks like you're calling everyone bitching about not getting these ATMAs retards, so nice of you.

Haven't started it yet, but from reading all the original threads on relic being too easy to get and doesn't take a long time, this sounds like it is not easy to get because it takes a long time.

And you don't even get the end goal, because it continues on later.

Be careful what you wish for....

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Looks like you're calling everyone bitching about not getting these ATMAs retards, so nice of you.

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Can't think of a reason different from vanity to get them. And I think that if you spend 225 hours for a vanity weapon you are a retard. My opinion man, but to be honest I believe it could even be diagnosed.

Leviathan weapons are just as strong as Relic"+4", and probably High Allagan are even easier to get if you have a good group (and they are 15 levels above). Pretty sure that even pugging would require less than 225 hours of effort.

Start doing it and look at next expansion to come just before you finish farming for it, introducing ilv 200 weapons. I could justify you if this quest was at least fun, but it isn't.

I guess I'll have to pick a favorite relic to focus in on...

That being said, I'd rather have the myth armor sets for most of my alts even if just for pure looks, so it'll be taking a back seat for a while anyway. Something to do, woo!

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Originally Posted by Tano

Can't think of a reason different from vanity to get them. And I think that if you spend 225 hours for a vanity weapon you are a retard. My opinion man.

Leviathan weapons are just as strong, and probably High Allagan are even easier to get if you have a good group. Pretty sure that even pugging would require less than 225 hours of effort.

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blah blah blah blah blah...You're the best and smartest, everyone else is a retard.... You the shizniz bro, yes you are.

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Originally Posted by Tano

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I think you are misunderstanding something. The devs have said that they plan on incrementally improving the Zodiak weapons in the next few patches (including possible customizable stats). The reason to do the quest now is to prepare for future content. The other options are only faster if you have bad luck, and you are able to clear the content (they are much harder). The Zodiak weapons are an alternative to these to allow players of different skill levels the ability to see new content. They may not be as efficient, and will take a much longer time than people who were able to farm higher lvl content, but they have a chance of doing it.

Meh, it's not like Mythology tomes have a weekly cap anymore, so it's not really that bad. They should be about as easy to come by as philo tomes used to be, and it was generally quite easy to accrue boatloads of those.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

That's what the High Allagan weapons are for.
Relics, even in the predecessor FFXI, were never hard to get.
Time consuming, yes, hard, no.

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FFXI relics weren't just time consuming, you still need to kill the Animated Weapons, it's just that anyone who can gather the currency is likely also in a Dynamis/HNM LS that can get do it for them. it's not AV or even Dynamis Lord but it's not a joke that you can solo either.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

FFXI relics weren't just time consuming, you still need to kill the Animated Weapons, it's just that anyone who can gather the currency is likely also in a Dynamis/HNM LS that can get do it for them. it's not AV or even Dynamis Lord but it's not a joke that you can solo either.

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Titan HM wasn't a joke neither for alot of people, what's your point?

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Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Titan HM wasn't a joke neither for alot of people, what's your point?

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Titan HM has nothing to do with this quest, and it wasn't a joke to anyone who did it the first time unless they got carried.

my point was that it's incorrect to compare this quest chain to the FFXI relic quest chain.

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Originally Posted by Tano

Just go buy a Leviathan win.

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or just fight him?

This post stinks to high heaven of "I want it now".

Jog it on son.

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Originally Posted by Tano

Can't think of a reason different from vanity to get them. And I think that if you spend 225 hours for a vanity weapon you are a retard. My opinion man, but to be honest I believe it could even be diagnosed.

Leviathan weapons are just as strong as Relic"+4", and probably High Allagan are even easier to get if you have a good group (and they are 15 levels above). Pretty sure that even pugging would require less than 225 hours of effort.

Start doing it and look at next expansion to come just before you finish farming for it, introducing ilv 200 weapons. I could justify you if this quest was at least fun, but it isn't.

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Shouldn't you be busy uninstalling the game instead of calling everyone retards?

you got 9 books of "missions" to do after that, that all got like

http://xivpads.com/i/097//-original/151863abc995.png

400 things to do in each single of them, and it cost 1500 mythos per book.


So yeah, enjoy time sink <3

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Titan HM has nothing to do with this quest, and it wasn't a joke to anyone who did it the first time unless they got carried.

my point was that it's incorrect to compare this quest chain to the FFXI relic quest chain.

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It is correct because that relic quest was a simple grind.

So where are all the FFXI scrubs who wanted this kind of experience now?

edit: personally I have no problems with the atma drop rates, it ensures people aren't going to get the new relic on day 1.

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Originally Posted by Tano

Please, 2.0 was a MMO and it was way better then 2.2 in terms of gear progression. It was just perfect, this patch only adds good game features and adjustments, but the rest is just timesink.

Also if you have to choose only 1 weapon then explain to me why we have multiple jobs. The game was designed so that average player should be able to fully gear 1 job, while skilled or nolife players could gear all the jobs. And well, all this stuff for a weapon that is not even close to the best of the game (that is just plain RNG). You need similar effort to make a Legandary in GW2, but when you get it that is and will always be the best weapon in the game.

Just go buy a Leviathan win.

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I'm sorry you feel the need to have end game gear instantly. Again, MMO'S might not be for you. Try some console games. You can beat some of those in a few days.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

So where are all the FFXI scrubs who wanted this kind of experience now?

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Here o/

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edit: personally I have no problems with the atma drop rates, it ensures people aren't going to get the new relic on day 1.

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Neither have I.
I am actually very happy with it.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Wow pre patch everyone was like.. "Give us something to work for!"


Post patch : this just too tedious!

:|

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Working != mind numbing FATE's.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

hm...
I wonder...
Working 2 years on one job powering up spending love and so...
To try something else because its becoming boring or just for fun taking another job now...
Locked out of content because stupid DPS race on most cotent in FFXIV:ARR...
Spending again 1 year just to catch up...
... realize too late that now both jobs are outdated because the 3 month progress in new content with linear item powerups!

Note: Thats a future example, that can possible happen if SE follow their current path

I am interested how new players feel about?
Timesink was never a solution to any problem!

When I heard something about "time to progress" firtstly i thought great, giving the weapon away and gaining it back after time... but to have stupid grinding (once again), all motivation is gone...

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This quest is not a requirement. It's an alternative there is no being left behind in this game because everything gets dumbed down so people can catch up. People need to stop behaving like they MUST do this.

I wasnt gonna do it at first for mnk....but then i saw the black and white sphirai.....now there's no question. It will be done.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

Working != mind numbing FATE's.

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The mind numbing FATES won't last that long anyway. The way people are camping dozens and dozens in a row they'll be done with that quest in a couple days tops. I think Yoshi had some crazy idea that people would do this quest casually (eg. happen across a FATE, decide to do it, maybe get an atma) instead of trying to steamroll it. The next step unfortunately will be even more of a grind at least as a byproduct of what it requires. The actual objectives might be swift, possibly even entertaining, but collecting 1500 myth for each book is going to be annoying at best. Again, I think his idea was that players would be done spending myth on armor so much and buy a book when they hit 1500, kind of like I had been buying darklight gear that I didn't need yet when I was at cap on philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

So where are all the FFXI scrubs who wanted this kind of experience now?

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Not really sure what your point is with that... I don't think I have ever seen an pre-abyssea FFXI player saying they like the fate system.

The thing they might like though is that it's not given out like candy like all other item has before.

Probably unrelated, but you can get the Atma drops so long as you have ANY Zenith equipped, right? Cause I really don't want to try and do fates on my SCH if I don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Not really sure what your point is with that... I don't think I have ever seen an pre-abyssea FFXI player saying they like the fate system.

The thing they might like though is that it's not given out like candy like all other item has before.

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Not that I have much to add, but I played FFXI starting at the NA PS2 launch (through to just before SoA) and I enjoy the FATE system. It's not perfect, but it works better than the campaign system, for instance, though it does tend to be less entertaining/ dangerous. To be clear, I like the FATE system for casually getting exp if you're playing for short periods of time and/or might be periodically interrupted by other things.

People: SE we need something more difficult for relic/zenith/zodiac. Its just too easy to get which lessens the since of accomplishment.

SE: Ok.take this..*releases 2.2*

People: OMFG SE what are you doing this is ridiculous why is it so hard???!!?

.....>_>....<_<......-_-

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

So where are all the FFXI scrubs who wanted this kind of experience now?

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The only similar experience is the graphics.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

People: OMFG SE what are you doing this is ridiculous why is it so hard???!!?

.....>_>....<_<......-_-

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If it would be hard I'd welcome it, but FATEs are not hard, they are just a huge waste of time when doing them with a max lvl character.

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Originally Posted by Cyrus-Wallace

I never got my Ghostring/Golden Thief Bug Card!!! ;_;

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Originally Posted by ZeroHigh

OMG golden thief bug card! was never able to get it, same with the Garm Card.

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I mained scholar after it was released and always felt GTB should burn D:<
But I never got my own. It hurts more that I got Atros. The art is awesome but.. but!! C'mon!

Now those were a real grind. Super camped bosses, spawning once in a million years, with.. what was it? .01% drop rate?

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As far as FATEs go, I'm not a huge fan of the way they work or grinding them or anything. Don't think that. However, in ALL honesty it turns into potayto-potahto after a while.

Grinding a regular mob, while I enjoy that giving them additional purpose, is just as menial of a task as grinding a FATE. You kill 1000 monsters, you grind 15-20 fates. The exception is that it's easier to have a huge group of people doing fates (less limited on monsters) and you can do other things between fates depending on how you go about it.

Time sinks are time sinks. If they were absurdly difficult (like Ragnarok, in our posts as examples) people would flip a brick. And that is definitely not that fun and unfitting for this particular case. But what else will you have? Something that is applicable for most people to eventually gain, is not in a dungeon (because face it, that is just as awful. pewpew boss down. CRAP it didn't drop), will not be restricted to trying once a week, and will not be burned out in the first day of the patch. There are other things, and they could still happen, but a lot of it is very similar in the long run. Make a social thing out of it or anything else you can to make the best of it.

I haven't even logged on yet.. but I'm really dissapointed to hear that fates are involved for the relic quest.. especially low level ones.

All these whiney ppl. Upgraded relic isn't even best weapon. The update isn't even out a day and ppl already crying.

OMG more whiners! If it's too mind numbingly boring and you don't like it, then don't do it. There are more weapons that I am positive are more challenging to get.

FATES need to die. Nobody likes to do them. If you're not standing there when it pops, you probably won't get credit because the other 500 people there will kill it all with AoE spam before you even know what happened. This is not a good way to get things, this is a retarded time sink that serves no purpose. I can understand something like "You need 10 tokens to unlock the next stage, but you can only get 1 token a week from X place".
This system of "stand around and wait for FATES and hope you get enough credit, then hope it drops what you need" is just stupid.