Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

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Originally Posted by robertoten

I would like to share a scenario that happened to me on Titan HM,

My character was a Level 50 Paladin,Was acting DPS for my relic, Probably one notch undergeared......

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Really all that matters is that your FC thought you were worth it. That's great you think of it as an opportunity to improve rather than just being happy you got carried.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

I don't like WOW because WOW killed the genre. Now, you cannot "fail" your char (in some games, you had to put your stats yourself without any possible reset, same goes for your skill tree), levelling was mostly grinding, but you had to build a decent char and do it with a group. Now, a "raid" is X people. Not X-1 or X+1, but X. In some games, crafting was a REAL job, and levelling it was hard (or expensive) but rewarding. Geez. I could continue for a week. I don't dislike the "new" MMO's, I just dislike Blizzard for killing a genre.

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WoW remade the genre, it did not kill it. The games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be are still online right now. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are.

Frankly, I would consider the OPs argument more valid if people in this game actually took the time to help new or inexperienced players improve. So many people using the duty roulette treat it like a loot pinata and harass the newbies. I've just started gearing/using my PLD in high level dungeons and the amount of flack I take is ridiculous. I never had to deal with such rude people as a DPS, even when I made obvious DPS mistakes like eating too many AOEs and straining the healer.

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No. But by the time we abandoned the duty both me and another DPS were much improved at our respective jobs. Before you start talking about 'mediocre' players leeching off of the work of pros, take a look at how you play the game and whether you're contributing to other's experience or simply harassing them and making everything worse. If you're not going to take the time to help others improve, you have no standing to criticize bad players. It's one thing if you're attempting to be helpful and people shut you down. However, the majority of the time if you mention something politely players will respond in kind.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No. But by the time we abandoned the duty both me and another DPS were much improved at our respective jobs. Before you start talking about 'mediocre' players leeching off of the work of pros, take a look at how you play the game and whether you're contributing to other's experience or simply harassing them and making everything worse. If you're not going to take the time to help others improve, you have no standing to criticize bad players. It's one thing if you're attempting to be helpful and people shut you down. However, the majority of the time if you mention something politely players will respond in kind.

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Had a couple guys last night ragequit during Garuda ex rather than admit they didn't know what they were doing. We asked at the beginning of the fight if everyone knew the fight, not impolitely, we offered to instruct if anyone didn't, and when noone responded we obviously assumed everyone knew it and when we did the readiness check everyone said they were ready. We wiped it before the sisters spawned for the first time because our healer got 1hko-ed by garuda at her first attack. Okay, mistakes happen, right. Second attempt, we made it past that part and wiped at the sisters phase because the tank didn't grab suprana who decided she didnt' like our healers. Again, mistakes happen, right? We try again, we make it all the way to the first vortex phase and someone immediately kills spiny. It's pretty obvious at this point that some of our guys are new, so we ask again and offer to instruct anyone who's new, noone responds. We figure we'll give it one more shot and we wipe before the first sisters phase again.

I understand where you're coming from with your argument, and I agree with it for the most part, I just want to point out that player improvement requires effort on both parts. Players who "wing it" and get the party wiped over and over because they refuse to admit they don't know what they're doing, even when people are offering to teach them, are a big reason that people these days are so hostile toward new people. Sad to say, the story I've told isn't an uncommon occurrence, and I've seen a lot of parties wipe at easy spots because someone did not want to admit that they didn't know the fight or they watched a youtube video once and think they're a pro.

Being a healer, I've seen a lot of hate, especially back in my AK days when people would rage at me because I refused to use the tree method against the first boss or because the tank would die while doing a WP speedrun even though he was soul binding crafting gear while trying to do a speedrun. People are going to hate on people, it's a sad but true, but the people who would wipe a party rather than ask for advice are just as bad as the people who would rage on a new guy for not knowing his role. I guess I'm the odd man out though, just for the fact that I hate seeing my party members die just because someone didn't want to risk bruising their ego by asking for advice.

If we're going to be honest here, there's a slight issue with that sort of thing, and the game just overall being easier. XIV hands gear, weapons, items, and even Gil to you on a plentiful enough basis that if you go look for it, you'll get what you need. It's extremely easy to get around, you can have your own mount given to you within the first 10 hours of play, and travel isn't a chore when you can Sprint at any time you want. People complain that XIV can't be compared to XI, but for what reasons? The game has existed for over a decade and is the best selling title in the series, mainly because of subscriptions, but people still found it worth shelling out more money to play. The game was inherently more difficult because it was outdated, but still had content and additions being added to it.

XIV is modernized and made more easy because of it. Teleport was a White Mage ability then, Sprint or Flee a Ninja ability, when everyone can have access to two things that help you get around the world easier, that instantly cuts down most of the time you would spend on fetch quests and getting places by half. This trivializes the game to an almost unbearable amount. The game is still fun and engaging, but when it isn't that difficult to begin with, we're beating a dead horse. It was made more accessible to new players to be more welcoming than XI, of which I myself appreciated. After a month or two of XI, I did start to grow bored and annoyed with it, despite all the things I had to do, because simple tasks were made annoyingly time-consuming.

If we want this game to be more successful in the long run, we might have to bear with an actual overhaul that makes it more challenging. Anyone can pick up and play this without much work, and while that's welcoming to players new to the genre, the game seems almost inconsequential sometimes because of it.

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Originally Posted by Ishmachiah

WoW remade the genre, it did not kill it. The games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be are still online right now. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are.

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Learn to read, please do. I said

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I don't dislike the "new" MMO's

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, but you skipped this sentence. The new "old-genre" MMO's are now P2W, you can guess why. I wonder why I'm answering you, you skipped school so much and now you fail to understand a feeling written in a simple sentence. I just can't accept the overkill of a complete genre.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Today I spent over an hour coaching and being coached (as a first time tanker) through Pharos Sirius. Did we clear it? No.

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Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

Just my two cents, but there is definitely an issue. Like the OP and others have noted, other games have a clear distinction between the gear (and the item level of the gear) earned in a raid and the gear earned in groupable content (such as WP/CT/AK, etc).

I am all for a third tomestone type, but the tomestone type needs to come from raid level content that is unnerfed. This provides the incentive for upper level players to continue grinding even when they're not pulling items or can't pull an item because they're having to play on a class that can't "Need" the item they are going for.

In addition, give raid level players new content a few weeks in advance of nerfing the old content. Otherwise, we will have an influx of players that have the gear from T5, potentially clouding the ability of raid level parties to tell who is actually qualified (by the skill of having beat T5) from doing T6.

And, yes, we do need some kind of a practice mode.


I don't mind teaching. I ran Ultima for four hours last night and welcomed anyone who wanted to go. I pulled exactly 0 items from it.

But, sometimes, I need to be using my time to actually get gear. And it's those times that spending hours trying to find a good party finder, trying to put together a skilled party on my own, or even trying to duty finder the fight repeatedly are most aggravating.

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Originally Posted by Ishmachiah

WoW remade the genre, it did not kill it. The games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be are still online right now. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are.

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By remade it you mean turned it into a genre that rewards the lowest common denominator and teaches us that if you cry loud enough you will always get your way?

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Originally Posted by Staris

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

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It's easy if you know what you're doing, or at least 3/4ths of the people do. And in this specific case I had the time so I decided I may as well make the effort to learn and teach so that the next time someone rolls into Pharos they don't insta-quit or drag their party down (which will ultimately cost more time than my measly lost hour).

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Originally Posted by Staris

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

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And this is why peope can't beat the new dungeons. This is not a statement ment at you directly, but SE has given us the same exact incentive to run WP which they know people do these 10 minute speed runs as doing Pharos, yet Pharos people need to be on their game, WP has become so easy that you can fool around, and troll each other and still get it done in 15 minutes.


Then they come up with new gear, yet the new gear drops from all the dungeons, WP, AK, hard modes, etc instead of exclusive Pharos or Copperbell, so in the end people don't have the incentive to try and work with a weaker skilled group, and instead CAUSE the mass replacement of Pharos that seems to happen often.. I wonder if there are groups who complete Pharos that an original party member is still there.

I go into Pharos and plan on teaching it every single time. I have quick but clear instructions for each fight, doesn't get technical, just...

1st boss, kill dogs ASAP, dogs are more important than boss, don't stand in bad stuff. bad stuff on ground get's larger, you will see.
2nd boss, I'll take care of eggs, you dps boss, when an add does spawn, focus on add. We need some adds to spawn to not wipe.
3rd boss, burn burn burn, healer you will need to kite or take one for the team.
4th boss, kill adds, they sargents first then other, boss teleports, if in middle we stack on her, if not in middle avoid middle. Healer keep us full or we could die, tank needs to try and interupt her songs.

Very simple, and I've had groups on first time through, usually 2 shot most of these bosses.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

By remade it you mean turned it into a genre that rewards the lowest common denominator and teaches us that if you cry loud enough you will always get your way?

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Original WoW was hard.
BC WoW was hard.
Lich King WoW was difficult in heroic mode.
Cataclysm WoW was difficult, hard in heroic.
Panda WoW is easier, but heroic is still hard.

LFR is not the measure to rate WoW's difficulty.

FF14 is easier than WoW. The only reason there's trouble is that the game isn't nearly as responsive when it comes to context sensitive location and one-shot abilities.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

Learn to read, please do. I said , but you skipped this sentence. The new "old-genre" MMO's are now P2W, you can guess why. I wonder why I'm answering you, you skipped school so much and now you fail to understand a feeling written in a simple sentence. I just can't accept the overkill of a complete genre.

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Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, so I'll use small words. I read exactly what you wrote, not skipping a line. I never said "New Old Genre MMOs", I said (pay attention now) that the games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be, are still online right now. That means, the games you enjoyed back in 2003 are still running their servers.

If the genre was dead (i.e. overkill), there would not be any MMOs on the market for you to complain about. Blizzard did not kill anything, they brought MMOs to the forefront and remade a genre that had an abysmal reputation (Evercrack anyone?).

I get it, you don't like the way FF14 or modern MMOs are. I understand. I really do. I don't care, but I understand. So, I will say this again and be sure to wear your reading glasses. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are. Not the new games that resemble what you liked, the original games that you liked. Go back to them and uninstall.

/thread

A short story.
There was one mmo where leveling was very slow (1 year to cap) so people would run the same dungeon for months before they can move to another. My time playing there was great because mostly any team i joined was well experienced and geared, so it was a friendly and easy run.
But one day publisher decided to make x3 exp rate (forever), as a result most of dungeons became swarmed with new people who had no clue what to do and of course 4 of 5 teams would disband due to continuous wipes. Needless to say people stopped joining public teams - only friend list teams and statics.
End of the real story i have been through.

I think doing hard content in a casual game is pointless (except for elite players who move with their static). 95% players are very bad and will never improve because they don't have to work for gear and level.
Someone gets lv50 in 2 weeks and in 2 more weeks he is full i90 and ready to join any coil/ex team with very little experience of doing endgame content or even playing their class.

Even with the echo buff, Titan is a roadblock for players. Until square decides to nerf Titan Ex again, they're forced to improve if they want to advance.

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Originally Posted by Yenn

A prime example.

I just attempted to kill Ultima on my tank.
An i88 tank said 'first time here, what do i have to do,' to which I responded 'Just taunt off me at 3 stacks and move out of things. Don't touch the glowing balls when they spawn,' and he said 'xD ok'
I start tanking, I get to 3 stacks, I said 'Okay take it.' He just keeps comboing, no attempt at taunting. Four stacks, I start spamming 'Taunt him' with sound effects. Nope. Five stacks, I Hallowed Ground and continue spamming. Nope. I die and then he moves into place, eats every ability, and dies.

This player should not have been able to obtain that much i90 gear, but it could, because you can get a full set just by logging in every week.

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there is nothing more annoying in this game than when you explain the fight, they acknowledge that and then they still avoid of even trying what you just told them to do.

It takes 2 weeks (past reaching lv50) to unlock titan ex, pretty much everyone can queue or join PF for it (or coil). This roadblock works for people who downed ex primals and coil in 2.1, but is bad for those who had not because even with PF success rate is close to 0% unless you start making a friend list. But being a casual mmo with short play time very few players will ever stay for more than a month or two, so friend list will not work much.
Thus i think casual mmos are not suited for hard content (unless you have a static team to progress with).

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Originally Posted by Staris

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

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It's because people like you that I always do high level DR in tank. Because people like you can't take a minute to help new players to clear that place, and leave asap. Thanksfully, it takes under 5 minutes to get a team ready when I'm a tank, and then we're good to go, and clear it under 45 minutes even with 3/4 new players. Because they CAN clear it. You just never let them try. I've seen much more iL90 players with allagan gear fail horribly there than new players in DL or under

To put things in perspective... perhaps these "scrubs" have the potential to be better players if they were given a chance to fail and hopefully learn. I for one farmed all my i90 gear without a LS, static, or FC grps. In fact, I pugged everything. Unfortunately, the first few fails were entirely my fault and it sucks for people that have had lots of experiences running it with their LS, Static, and/or FC groups.

Perhaps a little more patience and benefit of the doubt would be good in these kinds of wipe fest situations.

I really see OP's point with coil being unlocked. I die a little inside when were 7/8 fc members, we fill that spot and while asking said pickup how he's comfortable passing rot he says "what's rot".... ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?? This dudes in a lot of i90 gear from 1and two, and knows nothing of the mechanics in the fight.

Another time we have a pickup and were talking in chat about 2nd coil and this guy says " I'll just wait till it gets spammable and has echo buff". Oh good!! I can't wait to run with a total retard in the future who Doesn't know jack about the fight.... Hopefully we will get all the drops we wanted on all the jobs we like and don't have to go back but... Probably not -.-

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Originally Posted by Kret

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Why would you expect someone to know a method that hasn't been the standard for months now? Especially one that is incredibly pug unfriendly and is daunting without a voice chat and/or knowing everyone beforehand?

Why are you mad that someone gets enjoyment out of the game that isn't being on the cutting edge of content, and waiting for it to be easier? Why are you acting like Echo means you don't need to know shit, when no amount of Echo is gonna save you from make or break mechanics like Twsiters? Why are you getting so worked up about it in the first place?

Why do you feel the need to use incredibly hurtful language? Why do you care about any of this to begin with? Chill out dude. The content will always be there for you to to gather groups of other like minded tryhards to do in the most ridiculous fashions possible so you can have your internet measuring contests to your hearts content. How fun!

Lol ok, should have known wanting people to know how to play so they don't waste MY time was going to make me a "try hard" or meant that I wanted to " have Internet measuring contests". How dare I not be ok with wasting my lacking time having a job and family and all.

Why don't you instead of re-voicing the call of the casuals stfu and get better, ccuz clearly someone has been chewed out for sucking and has a complex about it now.

Dpsers are bad. Hurray for echo buff

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Originally Posted by Kret

I really see OP's point with coil being unlocked. I die a little inside when were 7/8 fc members, we fill that spot and while asking said pickup how he's comfortable passing rot he says "what's rot".... ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?? This dudes in a lot of i90 gear from 1and two, and knows nothing of the mechanics in the fight.

Another time we have a pickup and were talking in chat about 2nd coil and this guy says " I'll just wait till it gets spammable and has echo buff". Oh good!! I can't wait to run with a total retard in the future who Doesn't know jack about the fight.... Hopefully we will get all the drops we wanted on all the jobs we like and don't have to go back but... Probably not -.-

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Wow you come across like a real ahole you stay classy.

My favorite part of the binding Coil of Bahamut is doing the outdated content using legacy strats to win outdated gear slower than if I had just done proper farm runs. This will certainly get my bleeding edge raider guild geared up and ready for 2nd Coil, and is an intelligent stance to take on progression.

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Originally Posted by Kret

Lol ok, should have known wanting people to know how to play so they don't waste MY time was going to make me a "try hard" or meant that I wanted to " have Internet measuring contests". How dare I not be ok with wasting my lacking time having a job and family and all.

Why don't you instead of re-voicing the call of the casuals stfu and get better, ccuz clearly someone has been chewed out for sucking and has a complex about it now.

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It's a video game. It's a waste of time by definition. If you're so worried about doing things as efficiently as possible make some like-minded friends and only run with them. Please.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

Why would you expect someone to know a method that hasn't been the standard for months now? Especially one that is incredibly pug unfriendly and is daunting without a voice chat and/or knowing everyone beforehand?

Why are you mad that someone gets enjoyment out of the game that isn't being on the cutting edge of content, and waiting for it to be easier? Why are you acting like Echo means you don't need to know shit, when no amount of Echo is gonna save you from make or break mechanics like Twsiters? Why are you getting so worked up about it in the first place?

Why do you feel the need to use incredibly hurtful language? Why do you care about any of this to begin with? Chill out dude. The content will always be there for you to to gather groups of other like minded tryhards to do in the most ridiculous fashions possible so you can have your internet measuring contests to your hearts content. How fun!

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First if you note, they ASKED the person, and technically, passing rot is the "standard" way. Abusing enrage is just that, abusing enrage. Before someone flies into a fit, I said abuses, not exploits. Until SE says it was intended or not, I will believe they did not intend for people to win that way. And before people fly into another fit, they only said they weren't going to change it, they never said it was intended or not.

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Originally Posted by Cap75

It's a video game. It's a waste of time by definition. If you're so worried about doing things as efficiently as possible make some like-minded friends and only run with them. Please.

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No it's not. If you feel a video game is a waste of time, I don't even know why you'd play. My time is valuable, and I value my personal entertainment time the most. So, no, for many of us, it's not a waste of time, just by virtue of being a video game.

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Originally Posted by ispano

And before people fly into another fit, they only said they weren't going to change it, they never said it was intended or not.

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well, technically they created it that way, so it was intended, at least to be able to end it for groups who would be late on timer (just like T4). Though as you say they never stated if doing full boss during enrage was intended or not. I won't try to do T4's P6 fully during enrage just to know if it's possible and if it's intended to be able to win that way though..

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Originally Posted by ispano

No it's not. If you feel a video game is a waste of time, I don't even know why you'd play. My time is valuable, and I value my personal entertainment time the most. So, no, for many of us, it's not a waste of time, just by virtue of being a video game.

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Technically again, it IS a waste of time, just like watching TV, reading books, etc....
But then, entertainment is something we choose, so we can't really say we're losing time in games. Rather we choose to spend it there instead of doing something else. That said, if you don't like playing (whatever the reason, could be for just an hour because xxx player made you mad), then you are clearly wasting your time.

I didn't think Necromancer was a class in FF14.

Step 1: Get over it.
Step 2: See Step 1.
Step 3: Start having fun again.

Seriously.

To answer what your initial question really said, no, it doesn't bother me that "mediocre" players have the same gear as me. Personally, I think people who have major issues with someone obtaining the same thing as them with less effort lack emotional development. Second, your entire argument becomes moot with the introduction of High Allagan gear, I haven't seen any "mediocre" players running around in i115 gear. Finally, if you don't want to deal with that one unworthy person who sneaks into your group of perfect players and messes things up, get off your ass and turn your 7 man static into an 8 man, problem solved. Yoshi and the devs have intentionally negated the epeen factor in this game as much as possible, if you're the kind of person that demands a pat on the back for being a quality player you should start looking for another game.

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Originally Posted by ispano

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Standard ie the method that is most commonly used for a variety of factors including relative ease compared to Rot Passing. Don't play word games and expect to gain anything from it. Also, Enrage was legitimized during patch 2.16 when ADS was accidentally buffed to make enrage impossible and then INTENTIONALLY fixed to allow it to be viable. S-E isn't big on making official statements on things like that, but every sign they've given points to enrage being just as acceptable and viable as Rot Passing. Enrage is the method that is most commonly used, is the least stressful, the most pug friendly, and for quite a few people the only method they have seen so far. How is it anything but outlandish to expect everyone to know the older, less viable way of doing things?

Going back to my "issue" in t2 my group invited the player into our mumble where we proceeded to teach him how to handle rot and he did great. Sad fact is this guy who himself wasn't bad at all had no idea about a not hard mechanic because the other pugs he had gotten thought standing for 12 minutes was a better use of time (speaking of wasting time)

I really could care less what anyone does, if waiting till content is nerfed and the gear is garbage to clear progression content that's your deal.

Really though SE is hurting themselves and the players by not making things like t2 enrage properly. EVERY boss in XIV has a enrage timer and most of them will flat out kill you. Accepting one is going to 1) set these people up for failure, t5 enrage, or even ex primals is a game over. 2) there will be " I should be able to survive a enrage and have a chance to suck for a few more seconds and have a shot" threads, probably crawling with "fix it or I quit" lines. No bueno!!

Casual content is great, hell I love the new dungeons, a cake walk is nice every once in awhile but the hard stuff should be that... Hard.

And....it is? Again, you are getting worked up solely on your own preconceived notions. If Echo annoys you, you know you can click the buff off, right? You aren't being forced to use Echo. you aren't being forced to do any of this, yet you act like you are and it is a great disservice to you.

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Originally Posted by Kret

I really could care less what anyone does.

Really though SE is hurting themselves and the players by not making things like t2 enrage properly. EVERY boss in XIV has a enrage timer and most of them will flat out kill you. Accepting one is going to 1) set these people up for failure, t5 enrage, or even ex primals is a game over. 2) there will be " I should be able to survive a enrage and have a chance to suck for a few more seconds and have a shot" threads, probably crawling with "fix it or I quit" lines. No bueno!!

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Yet you say you don't care hmmm.

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Originally Posted by Kret

Going back to my "issue" in t2 my group invited the player into our mumble where we proceeded to teach him how to handle rot and he did great. Sad fact is this guy who himself wasn't bad at all had no idea about a not hard mechanic because the other pugs he had gotten thought standing for 12 minutes was a better use of time (speaking of wasting time)

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First of all, major kudos to your group for teaching that player how to do it properly. A lot of players I've encountered don't even like explaining things, let alone inviting onto mumble and working with them like that. That's fantastic.

As to the actual topic...I don't think gear is a proper way of gauging skill and it never will be. And not just because unskilled people can get gear, but also because not all skilled people have it yet. I generally just assume I don't know anything about anyone until I see them play.

I feel I like the idea behind the tome system, but even though it has benefited me, I feel like it is currently too fast. And I also feel it should be weighted, like WP and AK shouldn't give sol, that they shouldn't have gotten rid of philo. Have easier content give philo + some myth, then have harder content give myth + sol. That way the highest tome gear cannot be bought off easy content, and instead is something for the unlucky people that do harder content but loose rolls.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

well, technically they created it that way, so it was intended, at least to be able to end it for groups who would be late on timer (just like T4). Though as you say they never stated if doing full boss during enrage was intended or not. I won't try to do T4's P6 fully during enrage just to know if it's possible and if it's intended to be able to win that way though..

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Many things in games have unintended side effects that the developers never intended.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

Standard ie the method that is most commonly used for a variety of factors including relative ease compared to Rot Passing. Don't play word games and expect to gain anything from it. Also, Enrage was legitimized during patch 2.16 when ADS was accidentally buffed to make enrage impossible and then INTENTIONALLY fixed to allow it to be viable. S-E isn't big on making official statements on things like that, but every sign they've given points to enrage being just as acceptable and viable as Rot Passing. Enrage is the method that is most commonly used, is the least stressful, the most pug friendly, and for quite a few people the only method they have seen so far. How is it anything but outlandish to expect everyone to know the older, less viable way of doing things?

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Again, they may not have intended it, but left it anyways so as to not upset the playerbase.

Since the new patch, I think SE has done a pretty good job of separating those who want to challenge themselves with tough content (second coil) and be rewarded for it, while not completely excluding the casual players. The new solidery items and echo buffs gives the casual players access to new higher lvl gear and doesn't exclude from now completing content that was previously too hard for them (T5 and primal exs). Secondly, the new coil turns are the only way to get sands, oils, and unidentified allagan tombstones to up grade those solidery items to 110. This will still allow those advanced players who busted their ass learning the new fights to have a sense of accomplishment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Since the new patch, I think SE has done a pretty good job of separating those who want to challenge themselves with tough content (second coil) and be rewarded for it, while not completely excluding the casual players. The new solidery items and echo buffs gives the casual players access to new higher lvl gear and doesn't exclude from now completing content that was previously too hard for them (T5 and primal exs). Secondly, the new coil turns are the only way to get sands, oils, and unidentified allagan tombstones to up grade those solidery items to 110. This will still allow those advanced players who busted their ass learning the new fights to have a sense of accomplishment.

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Completely agree, now they just need to not nerf coil at all, rather continue with the alternative content method and I think we have a win for both sides!