Enlighten us then. Tell us the plan for dealing with RMT and bots. Please keep in mind that you can't ban everyone who crafts over 30 minutes without a leve to do or happens to do any gathering on their own for more than 30 minutes. Please tell me the site where I can pick up the latest version of "Bot Detect and Smash"...oh wait that would be a 3rd party program wouldn't it? Is your superiority in finding and harassing bots a proven method that anyone can do or will I need bionic implants? I want to know your secret formula for this activity...I would also like to know who empowered you to do it. Please share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
This is my sarcastic way of pointing out that you still have not outlined or placed any guidelines or (most importantly) restrictions on the activities of bot hunters. The "we are bot hunters so all of our actions are justified" routine is a license to aggravate other players that you as a player are granting to others. You are encouraging behavior that you have no authority to condone which is going to get some person with the best intentions banned. At some point you are going to have to put down that sheriff badge and realize that it is not your call to make.
Let's get back on topic. I will ask you the questions point blank. How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT? What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT? If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do? What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?
If our fruit here at FFXIV is rotten then show us the way to the promised land. Show us the unspoiled fruit of nirvana. Let's see what fruit falls from your tree.
Just Another 3rd party bot BUT 1000 TIMES WORSE
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06-08-2011, 11:35 PMMortikhan
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06-09-2011, 12:20 AMVahzlThis is pretty much how I have to try to explain this too, on a daily basis. Yes you might be upset by it, and indeed you are all grunty no knickers about the situation, but what would you suggest to be done, that is fair, safe and 100% accurate, without affecting paying customers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortikhan
People think that these brain fart solutions they come up with can change the world, but the leading MMo developers have teams of hundreds of people working day and night to counter these issues, and have tried pretty much everything in their power to deter it, and it still happens. See it from inside for a few weeks and you will understand that:
1) It is not a big an issue as you whine on about it being, the only reason you see it more at the moment is because you are actively hunting them. People say they are EVERYWHERE!!!! when in fact there is a handful on each server.
2) There is alot more being done about it on a global scale than you can comprehend. Again, kill the roots, and the tree cannot grow back, destroy the fruit and more take it's place, and usually stronger than before.
3) Reporting it to the STF is all you can do. Going any further brings you into the realms of policy breaching. You are not paid to do this, you are not contracted to do this, and you are also not actually permitted to do this. You have no right further than showing concern and reporting, so get off your rocking horse, take your admiral hat off and put the wooden sword down, or, as mentioned by a handful of previous posters, you will get banned quicker than the bots do. Either way, makes me happy.
There really isn't much more to discuss on this issue now though. Admiral Peregrine and her armada of muppetry is setting sail for fail. Don't fall into their wild and wacky team of misfits, or you will most likely be looking at a closed account.
AND before you miss quote me:
- Report to the STF and then move on with your life -
(this was all directed at peregrine, not you mort, while we have a few disagreements, I respect your objective opinions, and agree with most of what you say) -
06-09-2011, 12:21 AMEldaena
How do think players should react if they suspect a person is botting or RMT?
Observe and Report. Reporting is for suspected botting, it is up to SE to determine if it is or not.
What actions do you think they should take against a suspected botter or RMT?
Monitor and profile. Botters and RMT are stealing from SE and from legitimate players. It should be prioritized highly. Right next to making the game enjoyable, seeing as even if the game was a blast, botting could spoil it.
If SE does not ban a person you suspect of botting or RMT, what do you think a player is entitled to do?
Continue to observe and report. All we can really do to help the situation. However, I think SE should take a bigger stand against the issue. It's extremely frustrating to the player-base that cares about the botting situation to continue to play the game only to see the same bots month and month again. Maybe bots aren't as bad on some servers as my own, but literally they line the streets of Bodhum.
What methods should be employed to confirm a player is botting or RMT in your opinion and are players capable of confirmation?
I definitely think SE needs to take a more active role with the severity of the situation and get the STF in there proactively. Allow us to send reports in game to STF. Get STF or GMs on scene of reports. Profile better the suspected players. Observe popular bots online and see how they act. I can't say I know all that goes on behind the scenes now about this situation, but in game, it is an obvious problem that does not seem to be addressed at all currently.
As much as people try to deny or defend, botting is an issue in this game. It does effect all legitimate players. It makes the game look in an even worse condition than it already is, and makes the game unappealing to new and old players alike. I know we can't have a perfectly fair environment for everyone, but it should be a goal. An actively sought after goal that encourages players that SE cares about a fun and fair environment for it's players.
Edit: On a side-note, is there any way for SE to press charges against this organizations making bots and advertising them for FFXIV? -
06-09-2011, 12:26 AMVahzlThis is the first thing you have said in your entire posting history in this thread that is actually agreeable, right, and well thought out. I agree with you 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldaena
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06-09-2011, 12:32 AMEldaenaI hope you realize I am someone that cares. I want a fair environment in this game and not just for myself. People do care, and I want it to be known.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahzl
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06-09-2011, 12:37 AMVahzlI do realise that, and I think we may have entered into a bad situation from the start. Indeed people do care about the situation, what I was saying is that people don't care about Peregrines little campaign to wage war on anything he disagrees with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldaena
When I say "I don't care" it just means I am reading the post, and yet hearing white noise in my head, while thinking of fields and apple trees. In other words, it is a non-against the policies way of saying stfu :) -
06-09-2011, 12:44 AMEldaenaI'm not sure how that's any better? Most that I put into that post that you agreed with is what I've been feeling and saying from the start. You said I was unintelligent, a witch hunter, unreasonably upset and made it very clear that you think people in general do not care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahzl
What you are agreeing with is what you've been ridiculing me about on this thread for the last couple days. -
06-09-2011, 12:46 AMoptions
Botters and RMTs are scum. Report them and move on.
Shouldn't it be the MMO makers plan to make the game, where these said scum, not affect the rest of the legitimate players fun?
Just don't think claiming NMs is the way to go. -
06-09-2011, 12:48 AMMortikhanI agree with yours and Vahzls post. In response I would like to say that the RTF works things like a sting operation from what I have seen of them. We report the rabbit hole and they go into it to see how far it goes. They don't raise an alarm right away or else the roaches scatter. They wait to see how extensive the issue is and then they stamp out the problem as much as possible in one fell swoop. RMT are money making groups so hitting one RMT player tips SEs hand on how they found out about it. Also, hitting one at a time allows them to utilize other RTM players working with them to get back in action much faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldaena
People think that IP addy banning is still in play. That is only part of what SE can do. Do you remember that verification code that you had to use to install the game? That is not just used to stop pirating. They also use that to invalidate copies of this game that people own. If they hit a RMT group with those bans then they force them to repurchase the game itself. Although it is not much of a punishment for smaller RMT firms...it does affect larger ones in a much broader way and interrupts them on a larger scale. The best way to hurt anyone who is trying to make money on anything is to interrupt their business and force them to invest more in a project.
No plan will be completely sound in dealing with this problem. The main objective of SE is to make RMT and botting so profitless for those trying to exploit it that they will not make the investment to perform either in this game. -
06-09-2011, 01:05 AMMortikhanQuote:
Originally Posted by Eldaena
This is the confusion I talked about earlier in this thread that is caused by people addressing each other on a personal level and not the topic. Both of you and numerous others (yes even Peregrine) have made solid points about what is, should or has been done to solve the problem. The first step in seeing if someone has anything of merit to say is to ignore what they say about you and focus on what they say about the topic. When you do this you will first see the merit in what they are saying before you start spitting venom at them. Either way the venom spitting part is not very productive but it is admittedly fun to blow off some steam :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahzl
People have different ways of expressing themselves. Some like the bitter exchange of words, some like a more subtle approach. As long as there is actually an exchange of information going on that has something to do with the main topic there is hope a resolution can be found. Look at it this way...it only took you 17 pages and 175 posts to figure out that you might be on the same side...I have seen a lot worse with far worse results. -
06-09-2011, 01:13 AMMortikhanA very good point. This is however an incomplete thought. I do not want to put you on the spot but finish your thought. How do you think they could have gone about accomplishing the goal of prevention previous to game release? How would you rectify the problem now?Quote:
Originally Posted by options
I think reporting is important but also improvements to prevention methods send a strong message that exploitation is going to be hard and not worth the time for RMT and botters. In short, is it more effective to hunt the botter or disable the 3rd party programs they use? -
06-09-2011, 02:00 AMPandaTaru
not reading the 11 pages of crap. it's not a new bot, it's the same but somebody in your PT engaged the nm before the archer engage the bug. Hence why the bug remained unclaimed and the bot was able to kill it once it had fulled healed.
seems that SE got rid of some bots... but I guess they come back. just kill them and let the rmt buy new accounts.. it helps the game stay alive to some extend, sadly. -
06-09-2011, 05:26 AMPeregrineA simple software that detects pattern repetition to an inhuman degree. A specific timing always present. A path in the ground never not followed. Every bot ever created has an unmistakable visual pattern and button combination unique to it and only it. Behind that visual pattern is a mathematical expression. Quantify that expression and ban all players with that expression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortikhan
Fire the STF. Hire competent programmers with software pattern recognition experience.
Give GMs their Testicles back. Call one. Your eyes become their eyes. You watch that cheater die right in front of you, and it never comes back. That is player satisfaction.
Severity. Celerity. Certainty. The hallmarks of punishment for which presence of all ensures that behavior stops dead.
Suspension for not responding to a GM. 2nd offense, banning.
Every craftbotter, every shard farmer, banned. The first time. Retrospectively if possible extending all the way back to September. No recourse.
Public display of their names. Ten thousand players? All ten thousand names go right on the forum.
They're trying too hard. I can see a bot with my own eyes. Everyone can. They don't need mathematical confirmation if they're too incompetent to do that. I could ban ten an hour the first week. Twenty five an hour the second week. Within a month I could kill bots at one a minute, with sensitivity (I catch all bots reported) and specificity (the labelled bot is a bot) of 98% with a few software augments like autotimers, and information about everything in that players' receive packet.
Shit, I bet these bots have a characteristic recieve packet rate that exists only for them that a human couldn't duplicate if they tried. -
06-09-2011, 10:53 PMMortikhanOk a good start. What if the bots evolve and have random interval timing? How would they overcome language barriers if attempting to speak to a player? What if a player is dividing their attention between watching TV and playing and just spamming enter to craft and only paying attention when they have to use the recipe? What if players are not AFK but still using a bot, how would you go about detecting it and confirming they are using it if they simply shut it down when you talk to them? How would you deal with rival LSs constantly accusing each other of botting or RMT? How would deal with someone who consistently makes accusations about RMT and botting but is never right? How would you compensate a player if they could prove they were not botting but were banned anyway? If the RTF were laid off or fired, what additional manpower would you bring on to compensate for their loss? How would those new employees be trained and who would monitor them? You said at the beginning of your post that software should be used to detect them and the RTF should be fired and replaced by those better suited but later said that you could accomplish the same goal through sight alone. Which should be relied upon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
That is just a starter list of questions. I have met people who swear on all their dead relatives graves that they have seen or spoken to God, aliens, mythical creatures and/or magic. I would not depend so much on peoples eyes for data as the brain has a funny way of interpreting things one can not explain into what that person wants to see based on their perception of things. I think we would be better with the method of program tracking and pattern detection but again the human mind can also mimic behavior rather consistently and does so even more when it becomes an unconscious act. On the flip side of that coin, given any lag whatsoever on the part of the person observing or the botter would make it appear as an inconsistent pattern either way. Perhaps a program that would run concurrently with FFXIV that monitored open applications and only programs approved by SE could be opened or FFXIV would close (ie internet browsers, music programs etc.)? With this in mind players would have a help section area where they could petition for an application they would like approved. -
06-10-2011, 12:26 AMPeregrineIf they have random interval timing, that's a mathematical expression too. It's going to look even less like a proficient human.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortikhan
Players who don't speak the game's designed languages shouldn't be playing this game and expect to never have to speak. This is not an existing requirement to ban people who don't respond to tells, so don't pretend it is.
If the player is dividing their attention between something else and the game, too ****ing bad that's what.
You detect players that are using a bot and are present with data analysis aforementioned.
Players can't prove they weren't botting, so tough ****. They stay banned. You have no rights here. this isn't a democracy with an ACLU.
You handle people accusing others of botting by doing your god damn job.
I already told you who should replace the STF.
You handle people who are never right by doing your god damn job.
If they shut it down when talking to you, you ban them.
These questions already have answers. You just don't like them.
The cheater WANTS players like you to argue they should be able to say they were watching Netflix and hitting enter.
No, you weren't. Banned.
If you all are scared of losing your accounts because people actually start doing their jobs, start paying attention. We're tired of cheaters using these lame-ass excuses and getting away with it.
All of your friends who have been banned for illegal activities were doing illegal activities. I'm sorry. They're lying. Players like that tend to do that. -
06-10-2011, 12:46 AMRenshi
I was talking with a bot just now in FFXIV.
I told him that when I was playing Ragnarok Online there was a period where I was seeing bots all around me, trying to kill the first thing they'd meet, and when I tried to talk to them they wouldn't answer me back, so I called the GMs and they've banned them.
Also, when we were discussing about pies, I told him that pies are really good, but it has to hit your taste. You can't like a pie that doesn't have the spice that you favor, but when someone bakes a new and revolutionary cake, people would say "Oh look, a new pie" and then go there and buy some to try it. Then they would say "Hey, this cake is very good!" but other would say that it sucks and go back to their favorite cake, because you know... it's their pie, and they love it because it has a cherry on the top, candies and whatsoever, full of marmalade or with a bunch of fruits on top. I told him also that I prefer the Swedish Cake, that is the cake with green marzipan and the insides full of awesome homemade cream and whipped cream (which I recall you call it Coolwhip or something), but I guess that he didn't like cakes, so he skipped the argument.
Then we talked about school, where I began that our school seems to have a very bad synchronization problem with some classes, for example doing Integrals while we were doing them in another class for at least 2 months and we didn't know what the hell the teacher was saying during those 2 months. Then when there was this Lab session, I asked the teachers (yes, we have 2 teachers for lab) why they wouldn't do a lab centred on the real life work: keeping the Professor->Student relationship and communication, but in real Client->producer cases, because that's what work in an IT sector is about too. Well, that suggestion of mine got trashed because they said that lab was centered for projects made not for a client but for ourselves. I don't say it's a good thing, but knowing that next year we have to work for a company...
After finishing the last argument I realized he was a bot. -
06-10-2011, 02:00 AMPeregrine
I usually just ask how bardi's molars feel.
Me and Alfgar have gotten into it though. Spambotter. -
06-10-2011, 03:53 AMMortikhanPeregrine I am not really sure what to tell you. You have made up your mind. I do not agree with anything you said because it is all based on conjecture and assumption. None of it has any base in fact. Jumping to conclusions and banning people without any proper evidence is just as bad if not worse than the RMT and bots. The game you are describing is not a game at all. It is an interrogation. It gives anyone with a gripe with another player a means of getting them banned. Furthermore, anyone with a legitimate gripe will be afraid to speak up because they put themselves at risk of being banned under the system you suggest. Under you rules everyone would end up banned including you. Again you assume too much about me, my friends and anyone else you don't know. The boat you have built with your self-righteousness to sail the sea of sin will sink. It has far too many holes in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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06-10-2011, 04:02 AMPeregrine
Well you enjoy the company of the bots then I guess.
Your plan is failing. Has failed. Will fail.
This game is an integrity washout.
Some players like that I suppose.
What you consider proper evidence, I consider needless pandering to a population who needs to be shown the door.
It by no means gives people leverage to get people banned. If you're reported, you're looked into. If you're not cheating, you have nothing to worry about.
You type a bunch of fluff and meaningless content full of irrational fear and a hypothetical that doesn't exist, all for...what point again?
Whatever. Defend the mechanisms botters use to stay in the game, just to white knight some made up honest people who get caught in a crossfire. You're lying to youself. Your mentailty does not keep good players in this game. it makes good players quit in disgust. It only keeps and defends scum.
This game is looking more like an experiment in RMT and cheating toleration and less like a serious game every week, and you are enabling that.
I KNOW this population. You buy their bull****.
You're the guy who doesn't vaccinate their kid.
You're the guy who pickets genetically engineered corn.
Why? Because you believe things that aren't true about the reality you perceive. Your fears are irrational and biased. Kicking the **** out of these bots does not necessitate banning innocents. Never did. You're too gullible. Everyone in prison is innocent! Remember?
For whatever reason you just wish it does. I'll leave the why up to you to tell us. -
06-10-2011, 04:14 AMSAMINUS
I find it interesting that with 180 replies, and this being such an important issue that there has YET to be a post from a moderator in this thread.
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06-10-2011, 04:30 AMPeregrineThey stopped posting that the Square Enix takes Real Money Trading activities, use of third party programs, and cheating very seriously and asks for continued support of the Square Enix Task force in their ongoing endeavors to combat these issues....Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMINUS
Likely because you can say it once, and haha okay. Token used. But say it twice and it just becomes annoying.
Say it a third time, as the months and almost a year rolls on, and it's just reminding everyone of the primary problem, which is apathy and inaction.
Look at my thread. 8 videos of what a bot clearly is, does, and cheats at, months after the last video of that same bot, FOUR MONTHS after this EXACT NAMED BOT was reported by another user. If I made this game, that would embarass me. Just straight embarass me that that was MY product up there being just made a joke of by cheaters and the people watching me do NOTHING about it.
Topic locked. Not a word. Not one moderation. I didn't lock it.
What are they going to say? Sorry? At this point they're not sorry, or they'd have done something. Stop it? Good luck with that lol...telling real players, the only few left, that the bots have rights. What are they going to do?
Nothing.
Even if they're going to sting 10,000 accounts this weekend and just HAMMER them all as some sort of major sting operation...hello. Late. Damage done. Look how ****ed up shards, gil distribution, crafting levels, and everything is already.
If a major sting is in effect and that is the reason for the silence, they still fail because this should have been done back in January to send a message. Now better players have taken to cheating because **** it. Right?
Delay costs them real players. Real players quit the farce. Real players give up and take to botting themselves.
No one has apologized for how much of a joke this game has become in terms of rampant cheating.
It starts there. It ends with 10,000 players destroyed in one instant. -
06-10-2011, 04:51 AMSAMINUS
I can see how very easily RMT is benefited greatly from bots. bots grind away at the supplies to sell, RMT guys sell the gil for real cash.
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06-10-2011, 05:10 AMMortikhanActually it is because I do not presume/assume guilt. I prefer to stay calm in the face of a problem and make an informed decision rather than making the wrong decision based on hysterical accusations that have no fact or proof to back them. Rabid dogs don't get fed, they get put down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
You will never have your way on this game Peregrine. SE would rather risk losing you than risk all of the negative press they would receive from banning even one legitimate player without proof. It is just a reality you are going to have to live with or quit the game and continue spouting your rhetoric elsewhere. You see, that is the biggest fundamental flaw with your argument...there is no risk involved for you. You becoming a victim of your own dragnet would only mean you lose your account on a video game. SE stands to lose millions if they misstep on this topic. That is the main reason they are being cautious. It is not just their reputation that is at stake.
Your analogy with the prisoner thing is cute...flawed but cute :rolleyes:. Prisoners get a trial. A trial where they are entitled to a defense. I will not say that they always get a fair shake but they are in prison because they failed to defend themselves. Under your system players would not even get a trial or a chance to defend themselves...just off with their heads.
At some point Peregrine you are going to have to realize that your personal ethics, virtues and points of view have no bearing on SEs policies, procedures and code of conduct. They are running a business not a religion. People want to have fun here not feel like they are prisoners or have a gun pointed at them 24/7. I would not start a character on a server where I would constantly be at threat of being banned because of the accusations of a player and not have a chance of defending myself.
One last note...I am thoroughly enjoying your "If you are not with me then you are against me" speeches. It is just proving my point that you have no interest in making the game better or finding a solution but would rather preach about what the problem is over and over and over again. It is this logic that buries your arguments over and over and over again. At no point did I ask you your opinion about me or my friends but feel free to continue your assumptions about both. It makes your other points paper thin and easily refuted. -
06-10-2011, 05:12 AMPeregrine
You prefer to deny the obvious is what you do.
Whatever.
We all see the truth you can't commit to.
They count on your hesitation and hem-hawing around, while they run circles around you.
You are a threat to the game, just like anti-vaxers are a threat to our society.
I mentioned your friends all of once, and you lit up on it like a beacon.
Lol how many friends have you lost to the STF?
I'm sorry to tell you. They were cheating.
They got their trial.
And BUHBYE.
And if it was you personally who was banned or suspended by the STF, you shouldn't have been let in beta. We don't buy your bull**** around here.
You were banned because you cheated, not because THE WORLD MISUNDERSTOOD AND YOU HAD NO DAY IN COURT!
Lol no one said you get a day in court here, just like no one said you had a right to not respond to a GM who checks you. This ain't soccer mom democracy. When a GM says something to you, your ass responds. Capice?
If we have to choose between banning you, who doesn't get that, and not banning 10,000 of them? I'm sorry. You're out of here lol.
You call it injustice. I call it Darwin. -
06-10-2011, 05:44 AMRentahamster
Inflammatory name-calling aside, Peregrine's not calling for a witch hunt that indiscriminately bans everyone based on mere accusations.
There are many ways to prove botting. Automated third party programs have a pattern to their behavior that is VERY uncharacteristic of a real, live human. Futhermore, it's pretty easy to tell if someone has made a simple input macro, or just taped down their turbo button since the inputs received by the server are always constant with no variation.
This information, in addition with multiple player reportings, along with actual GM observance and interaction makes a pretty irrefutable case for action to be taken against a certain account.
SE letting everyone bot to their heart's content is stupid.
SE banning people for the slightest of circumstantial evidence is stupid too.
No one is advocating any of those positions, although a lot of you seem to think the other person is.
You guys need to stop thinking that the other guys is arguing for one extreme or the other, because you're not.
Carry on. -
06-10-2011, 05:53 AMAngryNixonWhy not, could be fun to RP some Salem action. All hilarious baseless witch hunts and subsequent unfounded condemnations and drownings aside, Hamster I don't know if you remember (because my memory is foggy in my old age) but was it not SE's old practice to do nothing for months and then take a "spring cleaning" approach to banning many accounts at once? Not really baiting you for an argument and it's kind of an incidental point to this thread but I'm just curious if you remember from the old days. I happen to remember, maybe incorrectly, that that was the way they did it. I think all these things getting reported will come out in the wash all at once at some point en masse. Just my thought though, maybe wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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06-10-2011, 06:16 AMRentahamsterYeah, I know how they roll with stuff like the mass Salvage ban, but it also happens on an intermittent basis as well, just google for LM-17 and you'll find lots of feedback from players who weren't banned in any kind of mass purge. Whether it's negligent payment, botting, RMT, or whatever, it happens both en masse and on an individual basis as well. It also happens fairly, with lots of evidence to back it up, or unfairly (like that stupid one that banned ppl who were gardening on their alts)Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNixon
But anyway, I'm kinda wondering if that's what you thought the main point of my previous post was, because I wasn't really talking about that.
I was talking about how there is a great deal of misunderstanding in this thread, and that each "side", so to speak, thinks the other side is arguing for an extreme version of what they're actually arguing for.
No one's arguing for extreme measures on either side (total bot freedom vs. draconian crackdown), but a lot of people in this thread seem to think that the other person is - which is the source for a lot of the unneeded aggression and hostility. -
06-10-2011, 06:19 AMPeregrine
I'm sorry, the bot sympathizers are just plain intellectually failing at a simple task.
This isn't a witch hunt, because there is such a thing as a witch here.
Not a single one of you has been suspended or banned by the STF or a GM falsely.
Neither have any of your friends.
They were lying, you are lying, or you believe in liars.
This population of people who have been unfairly banned are lying through their teeth, and some in this crowd just lap it up.
Your alternative is...this pathetic mess. You happy? -
06-10-2011, 06:21 AMPeregrine
There's no misunderstanding, Hamster.
There is only gullibility and lying.
The gullible, because they believed their friends when they said they got banned for no reason.
The lying, because the odds we actually have a cheater in this thread approaches 100%.
They are a threat to society like anti-vaxers are threats. Their irrational fear of the only thing there to protect them shows their ignorance and a true predisposition to bite what is trying to help them and hurt themselves.
Or in the case of cheaters, to help themselves while pretending to protect the innocent.
Their fears are the only imaginary witches in this discussion. The cheaters are real. -
06-10-2011, 06:55 AMRinsui
Peregrine, our drama-queen at her best.
Gogo, savior of the clueless.
...
Now I actually fear she might take that literally. -
06-10-2011, 06:57 AMSAMINUSWe all play our roles in this Drama Comedy (Dramedy)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
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06-10-2011, 06:59 AMPeregrine
I'm not going to pretend some of your all's black mages weren't banned for fleehacking as you claim you're innocent.
The concrete operational mind is the only one who thinks we can't tell exactly what they're thinking.
They *actually* think they can hide their motivations.
Nah, we see you all. We know why you argue for what you argue. You just don't know that we know, so to find out is quite enraging and shocking since you figure you'd get away with hiding your motivation for saying quite stupid things.
But by all means. Look at your world where your "innocent" are spared.
This is how the world is if some of you all get your way.
And a good portion of you LIKE it.
Well, congrats. You're the only ones left. No legitimate player is going to take this game seriously if the game ever gets to be competitive. Your game becoming a haven for botters and self-entitled mass cheating is a never event in a MMO.
Because then all you have on your hands is a bunch of lying cheaters who even if they CAN keep the lights on cheating against each other, your company name becomes a joke.
Square Enix doesn't make furry costumes because it would hurt their image even if it'd make them money. Do they develop games for the cheating gamer?
Looks like it to me.
I don't tolerate games that tolerate cheaters.
And what's more, I don't patronize a company who does.
This industry has standards. If SE wants to cash in on the vast untapped reserves of people who cheat in videogaming, hey. Novel idea. There sure are a lot of them.
But they're the scum of this genre, and if you cater to them...so is your name.
This is the part where all the cheaters and bot sympathizers say good riddance so they can continue to cheat without pressure from their peers, and this is the part where square enix says shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii HOLD ON HOLD ON BANNINGS COMING. -
06-10-2011, 06:59 AMRinsuiYikes! The army of ever-multiplying Peregrines is upon us!Quote:
Nah, we see you all.
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06-10-2011, 07:02 AMIchi
lol whats this business about defending yourself, theres no excuse for botting and nobody here is calling for a ban on all players that have been complained about there are ways to detect botting beyond 0% of a doubt for example, when you see a char teleport across the field or attack a monster 5 times away from his range. A case for defense in such an example is wasteful. This isn't the United states of america, and this real company doesn't really owe anyone anything. BTW they ban rmt regularly in XI without any "Trails" and I have heard stories about someone claiming to have been doing nothing wrong. Low and behold SE's still here furthermore XIs still here.
You think you have any right to talk about someone else's idealist beliefs when the irony is that your simply touting your own idealist bs about what's 'real' as if you know so much. -
06-10-2011, 07:05 AMSAMINUS
conspiracy theory?
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06-10-2011, 07:18 AMPeregrine
Square Enix has a new-found reputation of making crappy, stale, out of touch games now. There. I said it. We all know it. We don't wish it, but that is what the Square Enix logo says to gamers in 2011.
Add to that the 8 month-going reputation that they are friendly to cheaters in an online environment.
Square Enix's name is on the line here. We as a gaming community don't believe little Joe afterschooler when they say they get banned for no reason, because their stories are always hilariously suspicious. Those people are free to lie through their teeth and fake that they didn't get their asses kicked to the curb for any reason, but we all know that they just got pwned and karma bit them finally.
We respect Square Enix when we see affected brats trying to pretend they were unfairly banned, because we know they're just trying to cover their ass that just got rightfully beaten.
We do not respect Square Enix like this. I won't recommend this game to any legitimate player if it continues to allow cheaters to progress like this. I won't even recommend it if it starts now and lets all the cheaters stay if they stop cheating.
I would like nothing more than a bunch of affected brats to come screaming here en-mass sunday night, every one of them with their own cockamamie story as to how they were innocent.
And here comes the message.
A Major Square Enix Task Force investigation has been completed for Final Fantasy 14. As a result of these investigations, 2397 accounts and 13,457 characters have been banned for RMT and third party program use, resulting in a loss of 135,450 crafting levels, 165,220 battling levels, and 56.7 billion gil has been removed from the economy.
To that, a hundred cheaters go WHAAAAAA IT WAS MY BROTHER.
To that, I go LMAO PWNED.
On that day, Square Enix's reputation goes UP. The more brats come on here and lie, the more it goes up. -
06-10-2011, 07:57 AMVahzl
I am starting to think Shirley Phelps-Roper is playing FFXIV... on Wutai, and currently has Conjurer and Blacksmith at R50.
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06-10-2011, 08:06 AMFiron
Good lord this thread is still going jeez someone needs to sign up for SE's STF. Mod please close this thread and e-mail someone an application.
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06-10-2011, 08:08 AMSAMINUSI miss SquareSoft...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
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06-10-2011, 10:10 AMPeregrineI wouldn't work for them, having failed every objective they were supposed to meet, monumentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon
They're protecting the only cash cow they have faith in, which is FFXI.
This game's been left to the rats it seems.
Can't make a subscription game with free to play mentality.
Can't build a respectable fan base when disreputable garbage players scav around the game 24/7 unchecked.
We're not interested in **** product like that.
Whoever's decision it was to not stay on top of RMT and cheating in this game likely cost this company a next-gen MMO no matter how hard Yoshida works. The harder he works, the harder the cheaters and RMT will take his cookies and make his game ****. They own this game. Yoshida doesn't.
Now the botters know this game's code better than the game's team does. Elevation hacks. Put their weapons away and agro just disappears? And they don't show up on radar to these people? For over a half year? Can't even mount a single successful anti-cheating operation? Not even a simple physical sweep?
How many RMT have been banned? How many cheaters caught?
Five?
What's the ****ing difference between shouting for gil sales in town and Square Enix pretty much doing that advertisement for them? All Nanawas have botters in them, right now. Every server. Every Tam Tara has botters in them. Every server. Same bot. They've been there for almost a year now. They take the shards they farm and they create high-level crafters with them or sell them for gil. Whatever they think is the most valuable asset.
And in every town there are craftbotters. Outside towns, in caves there are shardbots and craftbots. Go into special zone cutscenes, and you're likely to come across a player bot. Those are the cheating players too scared to bot with their alts right out in the open like RMT do, and too chicken to craftbot with their primary day job.
RMT know they already own this game. There is nothing Square Enix can do now to cut them off, and they seem to think they can whenever they want. SE just doesn't get it. RMT have probably switched 700 billion gil around so many times by so many measures that SE has no freaking clue what's what. That gil probably looks cleaner than the money on my retainer now. Want a R50 battler? Why, they have every make and model. Don't want to level crafting? They have em all, Buy 3R50 crafts, get the 4th free.
The only consolation to anyone here is that this game's so dead that the parasites are starting to back off it because there's just nothing left to pick. It's gone. It's spent. RMT have all the gil, all the characters, and all the assets they'll ever need. They are set for this game's LIFE if it ever comes back to it. So do the cheating self-entitled player base that squatted FFXI. Deleted darter dats. Employed voke bots. Salvage dupes. Flee hacks. Dyn hacks.
Square Enix is encouraging that kind of player with an open door policy. STF was the best thing to ever happen to RMT and the cheating elite.
That kind of illegitimate force will always remember where this game's dead carcass is in case it ever gets back up. Square Enix will realize just how stupid this decision to do nothing was the second this game actually gets good. If this game lifts so much as a finger, RMT will chew it straight off and then return to Rift, or WoW2. Or whatever takes their attention because FFXIV is already taken care of as far as RMT are concerned. Easy-peasy.