BARD 2.1 change [requesting letter from the producer explanation]

I came for Bard tears, and I am not disappointed.

This thread is so full of wrong. Shut up and wait for details. -_-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiveMind

I came for Bard tears, and I am not disappointed.

---

At least you didn't come for a coil spot. Because you was going to be disappointed lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

At least you didn't come for a coil spot. Because you was going to be disappointed lol

---

haha, well he asked for it ^^)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

At least you didn't come for a coil spot. Because you was going to be disappointed lol

---

Hahaha! That was funny until I realized BC only drops DRG loot T_T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by newbie

Hahaha! That was funny until I realized BC only drops DRG loot T_T

---

*cough*
Dont talk about that -.-

;)

Well my DRG is nearly full ilvl90 too.. im ready for the switch :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by newbie

Hahaha! That was funny until I realized BC only drops DRG loot T_T

---

Lol that's right :'( but almost all my BiS are myth =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Are seriusly comparing what you need to beat the story and get DL gear with what you need to be competitive in Coil??? I mean even now we are below the damage of Blackmages and Monks, just think of how it will be if we lose this skills....

---

Why should bards have good damage anyways? Why should your dmg be above a blackmage a or a monks? I don't understand why your freaking out over nothing.
You don't need to compete in dmg...quite be such a noob

Our blackmages and summoners routinely out dps our bards. We don't scale as well with high level gear, so we start to lose out when gear levels rise. If you're looking to nerf us so you can beat our dps on your numerous Ifrit runs then you lack the experience to even make an assessment of what needs nerfs or buffs. Sorry to be crass, but many who complain about the utility and damage of bard have not played their toons at a level that would allow them to make proper comments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Devaking55

Why should bards have good damage anyways? Why should your dmg be above a blackmage a or a monks? I don't understand why your freaking out over nothing.
You don't need to compete in dmg...quite be such a noob

---

He didn't say we need to be above them. But we're already below them, and we're getting dropped even further.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

He didn't say we need to be above them. But we're already below them, and we're getting dropped even further.

---

*sigh* I'm tired of all these QQ threads about bard dmg, its fine and will continue to be fine get over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Devaking55

*sigh* I'm tired of all these QQ threads about bard dmg, its fine and will continue to be fine get over it.

---

Lowest damage class gets their damage lowered further. I'm not saying it's the end of the world or anything, but I fail to see the logic.

If we're below, why do we need the nerf? While I am confident we will be fine and viable (I'm not that out there) I see very little good reasoning from devs about why it is needed. What is their optimal dps range for an I90 bard? It seems like an impulse reaction to people's cries on the forums rather than a well thought out and reasoned damage decrease. In Coil, especially in Turn 2, we are held back because we are needed to silence high voltage.

In Turn 1, my black mage and monk parse above our bards (we're close) but they are above us in overall damage on the first boss. So a reasonable person would then ask why the reduction? I hope to see the reasoning behind this perhaps in the upcoming live letter, but "a bit too high" is so incredibly vague that it leaves nothing but questions that the community deserves some of the thought process behind this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Lowest damage class gets their damage lowered further. I'm not saying it's the end of the world or anything, but I fail to see the logic.

---

That's the inconsistent logic here. When it comes down to it, our songs really add to others while hindering our own abilities (exception is Foe of course).

The vibe that i am getting from the dev responses, is that the damage nerf will be mainly affecting bards burst damage, rather than their sustained damage. Sustained damage wise, they are dead bottom right now but when it comes to burst they are definitely up there due to having 5 damage buff CDs.

While all DDs are labeled as DPS, each one has its own niche. MNK is a melee sustained dps, SMN a ranged sustained dps, DRG a melee burst dps, BLM a ranged burst dps and BRD a ranged support dps. They are not labeled that way but thats clearly their intended strength and from what i get from the devs, bards are somewhat too close in some of that areas for their intended niche. I might be wrong on that but thats what it sounds like to me.

Bard may be the lowest damage on test dummies, or some theoretical boss where there's no movement or dodging required at all (There's a lot of those, right?), but in actual gameplay Bard performs very well because they can deal their full damage constantly, non-stop, while moving, from any range, with no positional requirement, and without any interruptions. That's not even taking into account the utilities Bard brings, and Bard has no competition in the roles it fills. Bard is in a much better position than most DPS classes, both in ease of play and in how desired they are for content.

If Brd is top dps on a dummie, then the other class is doing something realy wrong.. If u time it for 30 sec, yes, but if u run a 5 min parser then u see how wrong u are!

The "nerf" for Bard will most likely push for Bard becoming more of a support job than a damage dealing job. Perhaps buffing/changing their songs. The ridding of damage buffing skills from either LNC/PUG will be the damage reduction people are crying about, which isn't that much tbh.

1. I foresee BRD gaining addition skills from "PUG/ACN" rather than PUG/CNJ.
With Arcanist skills they'll have access to:
-Virus, to mitigate incoming damage (Reduce target's STR/DEX by 15%)
-Eye for an Eye, for maximum up time of the buff
-Physick, to assist in curing
~They could lower useless stats for BRD such as STR and INT to give a reason to increase their MND, kind of like WAR's low magical attributes.

These skills are more supportive then what they'd get from CNJ.

2. If they were to buff/change songs they could make it so the damage penalty from Ballad/Paeon is slightly less when cast'd and/or increase the regen of them so they dont have to be up as long. SE could make it so songs buffed with Battle Voice effect the caster aswell. <.<
- This is mainly for those QQ'ing about not having invigorate anymore as they'll be able to restore their TP quickly.
~Also, Bards aren't the only DDs that have issues with TP, even with invigorate on my Monk I continue to be TP starved(i.e. why skill speed is useless) so that song would also benefit the other physical damage dealers(especially WAR, considering they don't even have invigorate)

3. Foe's requiem could also get buffed so that the damage increase from it can equal the value of having another high dps in the party.

However, #2 and #3 ,unfortunately, are unlikely to happen. ; ;

They're not going to push Bard into more of a support role after explicitly telling people at release that Bard is a DD.
I wouldn't be opposed to it, but it's just not going to happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Houston009

The "nerf" for Bard

---

1 point for the effort.
But did u think this trough?
Remove Lancer;
BfB, its a nerf to boost damage, making Brd less OP in short fights, if that can help class Balance, go for it.
Remove Invigorate, it will kill Brd's as a AOE class, period, well if that helps class Balance, go for it.

Now set ACN as cross class and do as u said; Eye for an Eye and virus how many classes can use that? and u think that will push Brd toward support?
Now the fun part, Physick... realy?
U know that in 2.1 they release 3 more 4 man instances?
Brd and healer take care of healing and have same debuf/buff, EfE and virus, Tank has it role, and now u have 3 classes to make ur fun more fun, and u can shine as the hero u signed up as. Yeh, lets og for it.....
If u read forums, it has nothing to do whit class Balance, its either crush brd, or just trash brd for the fun of it. Lets just hope Dev's dont share this way of thinking...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phai

1 point for the effort.
But did u think this trough?
Remove Lancer;
BfB, its a nerf to boost damage, making Brd less OP in short fights, if that can help class Balance, go for it.
Remove Invigorate, it will kill Brd's as a AOE class, period, well if that helps class Balance, go for it.

---

Removing invigorate would kill it as a single target DD as well. You must not play much bard in 13minute fights like twintania. That second paragraph....I can't quite understand the broken english so I'm just going to assume its more stupidity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiras

Removing invigorate would kill it as a single target DD as well. You must not play much bard in 13minute fights like twintania. That second paragraph....I can't quite understand the broken english so I'm just going to assume its more stupidity.

---

Yeh, my English skills are not good, cant argue on that.
I do progress on Twintania, and i do find TP to be an issue during that fight, but i asumed talking about the AOE aspect of TP easyer to see for ppl not in Coil.
Keep bashing my English skills, so u dont have to argue on the issue that are talked about, makes u look smart and its a pure win for u :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phai

Yeh, my English skills are not good, cant argue on that.
I do progress on Twintania, and i do find TP to be an issue during that fight, but i asumed talking about the AOE aspect of TP...

---

It's just that it's impossible to understand what the hell you are trying to say because you are impossible to understand. I think this quote from the 17th page is meant for you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aricori

Our blackmages and summoners routinely out dps our bards. We don't scale as well with high level gear, so we start to lose out when gear levels rise. If you're looking to nerf us so you can beat our dps on your numerous Ifrit runs then you lack the experience to even make an assessment of what needs nerfs or buffs. Sorry to be crass, but many who complain about the utility and damage of bard have not played their toons at a level that would allow them to make proper comments.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiras

It's just that it's impossible to understand what the hell you are trying to say because you are impossible to understand. I think this quote from the 17th page is meant for you

---

Well sorry if that was writen in a bad way, its a Language barrier.
U pointed out that TP can be an issue during singel target fights that are long, and i agree, couse it happends that i go low on TP during Twintania.
I was just trying to make the point about loosing Invigorate would for most kill Brd's AOE ability. Reason i mention AOE was becouse it might be easyer to see this for ppl not playing bard, or havent progress's into endgame.
If u want to asume i am a bad player, go for it, i dont care, couse me and the ppl i play whit dont agree, and thats all that matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiras

That second paragraph....I can't quite understand the broken english so I'm just going to assume its more stupidity.

---

It's easy to read. Here, I'll break it down for you.

Change Bard's secondary class to ACN (to make it more support). Then he makes sarcastic remark that you'll be the hero of the group because you can do what SMN/SCH/BLM can already do.

It is probably blood for blood they will be messing with. We already have something similar with raging strikes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luso

It is probably blood for blood they will be messing with. We already have something similar with raging strikes.

---

I think that they are moving raging strikes out of Archer to another job, and we will keep bfb

Whatever they do, it will turn a mediocre dps to a shitty one.

This nerf was really not needed, devs are blind. Im forced to play DRG now :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkh

Whatever they do, it will turn a mediocre dps to a shitty one.

This nerf was really not needed, devs are blind. Im forced to play DRG now :(

---

Ewwww... really? :(
I hate the dragoon job, I like much more monk or BLM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leon_Stormrage

I think that they are moving raging strikes out of Archer to another job, and we will keep bfb

---

I think it is much more likely BRD losing Internal Release since it helps out much more with Blood Letter procs. Yes B4B does help out our dmg but I tend to use Internal Release and gain the better benefits of my dots criting and resetting Blood Letter in all instants where as B4B there are some points you do not want to use it because of the increased incoming dmg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkh

Whatever they do, it will turn a mediocre dps to a shitty one.

This nerf was really not needed, devs are blind. Im forced to play DRG now :(

---

BRD will still be very useful in groups. There wont be a need for more than one, as opposed to what everyone things atm. It all boils down to who would rather play a RNG (Ranger for those who dont know) type class as opposed to an actual BRD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DJ_Foxx

I think it is much more likely BRD losing Internal Release since it helps out much more with Blood Letter procs. Yes B4B does help out our dmg but I tend to use Internal Release and gain the better benefits of my dots criting and resetting Blood Letter in all instants where as B4B there are some points you do not want to use it because of the increased incoming dmg.

---

Think most of us are assuming that's unlikely based on the fact that PGL is the class required to unlock BRD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DJ_Foxx

BRD will still be very useful in groups. There wont be a need for more than one, as opposed to what everyone things atm. It all boils down to who would rather play a RNG (Ranger for those who dont know) type class as opposed to an actual BRD.

---

There is still no debating that yes it will still be useful. There is no need for more than 1 for any reason so not sure why people think more is better. But the overall real concern is with 4 man raids, if bard dps is cut and there is a dps check how will a bard catch up since again they are the lowest dps class, they just have the highest burst damage. Sure every encounter I start out the highest dps but then fall below any melee dps within a minute and if I play foe requiem forget about catching a good blm or a smn for that matter. It is just a class that well we do not know all the details about the adjustment, a good majority of most any good end game player, bard or whatever class would like to actually know SE's fail logic behind it. From where I stand, I still believe it was the casuals who have no idea how to play their melee class that brought about the idea and Yoshi and SE have to think about their giant money pool, which is casuals over end game raders(even though raders stay around longer, but casuals can be replaced) because casuals more or less pay the bills.

DPS checks are all about burst though. DPS matters greatly in fights where there are enrage timers (Twintania) and probably pushing forward. It's likely they'll rework Rain of Death since it's really expensive and give to someone else, while keeping LNC or changing in favour of MSK (which won't be soon). Invigorate is pretty damn important for any TP class and taking that away would make Bard useless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryuuji

Instead of CNj just slap on arcanist subclass. Another eye for an eye and virus to throw up for "support". In regards to which class to lose I'd much rather lose lancer than pug. That IR is just too sexy.

---

I've only played low level Bard but Invigorate is, how to say it, "essential"? Given that Venomous Bite and Windbite are both 80 TP drains TP so fast it's silly.

Instead of CNj just slap on arcanist subclass. Another eye for an eye and virus to throw up for "support". In regards to which class to lose I'd much rather lose lancer than pug. That IR is just too sexy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryuuji

Instead of CNj just slap on arcanist subclass. Another eye for an eye and virus to throw up for "support". In regards to which class to lose I'd much rather lose lancer than pug. That IR is just too sexy.

---

So you'd rather lose dragoon and become worthless while keeping a crit buff along with a few extra abilities for support when it's been said by the devs we are not a support class? That crit buff is laughable compared to the other ability so many in this thread seem to forget about....invigorate. Sounds like an amazing idea being forced into tp song every 2 minutes for 20 seconds to gain the tp invigorate gives, sounds awesome being told we'll be gimped even worse than we are compared to every other dps that does better than us in equal gear.

Until they give this game a full on support role, there is no such thing as a support class no matter how much some think so. What would virus be good for exactly from acn? the only good quality from it is the magic dmg reduction that only acn gets and it's used on a single boss fight once your group is geared. Eye for an eye? sure lets take our attention off our target for a second or 2 and cast an rng buff, further gimping our dps because we have to get off our target, you know....something that songs already do.

Can see you've actually done Twintania too, you know what turn 4 and 5 would be like without invig? Lot of good that crit buff will do when you constantly have to gimp yourself on those fights already through songs. Know how well you would do when you have sit in another debuffed song for an extra 20 seconds several times each fight? Unless your group is already running double bard for those fights in which case you're already going in gimped when any other dps class would be better to take in if they have equal gear.

Greetings, everyone!

Based on fan translations of the interview Famitsu held with Yoshi-P recently, there seems to be a misconception about what was said regarding bard adjustments in 2.1. Contrary to the rumor that an ability would be taken away from bard and moved to a different job, bard will not be losing a main ability.

This confusion appears to stem from Yoshi-P comparing party formations to a puzzle and the jobs being the puzzle pieces. The goal for balancing the game is to make sure that no single job could complete the puzzle alone, and he feels that bard was given too many pieces of the puzzle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

Based on fan translations of the interview Famitsu held with Yoshi-P recently, there seems to be a misconception about what was said regarding bard adjustments in 2.1. Contrary to the rumor that an ability would be taken away from bard and moved to a different job, bard will not be losing a main ability.

This confusion appears to stem from Yoshi-P comparing party formations to a puzzle and the jobs being the puzzle pieces. The goal for balancing the game is to make sure that no single job could complete the puzzle alone, and he feels that bard was given too many pieces of the puzzle.

---

Can we get a full list of the Bard changes like we did the Warrior changes? Please and thank you!

The puzzle analogy is kind of cryptic. Plz tell us what you intend to do with Bard, as it might be a make or break deal for those that currently play bard.

I don't think they're going to tell us just yet but I predict they're going to change having LNC cross skills with something else.