lol i didn't read because all you said up to date is bullshit, and i assume that you posted more Bullshit
White Mage: You should DPS and here's why.
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10-31-2013, 04:44 AMWhippet
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10-31-2013, 04:46 AMZanikaCare to explain why/how? Or are you just going to leave it at that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippet
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10-31-2013, 05:29 AMRustybicycle
We all had to solo dps a lot of mobs to get to 50 so we know how to do it. I will often do it in dungeons as well. Naturally, it depends on the situation. When I can kill the same enemies and have the same survivability as my other classes playing solo, I see no reason for white Mage to not dps.
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10-31-2013, 05:58 AMTeaTimeBear
I picked CNJ for healing not for DPSing :/ trash gets cleared just as fast without my running in to nuke.
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10-31-2013, 06:58 AMPsychosamm
How about this, i'm paying for the game just like everyone else, so i can play my class however i want to play. You can play how you want to play. The end.
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10-31-2013, 07:11 AMFinagleABagelNot true. You can shave ~5 minutes+ off by DPS'ing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear
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10-31-2013, 07:13 AMTeaTimeBear5 mins+ :l sorry I'm not doing I like healing. You like to DPS then fine with me. But this is what I find enjoyable. Frankly I think it really unfair to label people lazy who don't adhere to this standard as lazy players. I work hard on my role and no one has the right to put me down because of my love of healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinagleABagel
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10-31-2013, 07:40 AMWhippetWhy can't people THINK before postingQuote:
Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear
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10-31-2013, 07:43 AMTeaTimeBearWhy can't you post without being a condescending jerk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippet
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10-31-2013, 07:45 AMLiadansWhisperShe did think. You just didn't like her response, but instead of addressing it directly (and explaining why you disagree), while still acknowledging that she's entitled to play however she wants (since she doesn't raid with you), you chose to personally insult her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippet
Congrats! You've totally converted others to your side. -
10-31-2013, 07:57 AMWhippet
She didn't think or she didn't read because all she said is my job is to heal I have to cure
Which is not the goal of the thread, the goal of the thread is WHEN THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAL you should DPS -
10-31-2013, 07:57 AMWhippet
I really need to give up on the OF my doc cannot give me enough medicine for my head
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10-31-2013, 07:58 AMWindseraph
The really funny thing is, today I was cleric dancing in Wanderer's Palace as per usual, we clear the first boss, and then suddenly the warrior has a go at me for not healing him and says he will not tank if I don't stick to my role and heal as opposed to DPS'ing. Just......what? He was at perfectly fine HP and the entire fight went smoothly as heck, I was just so taken aback as this was the first time i'd encountered such a response. Guess theres a first time for everything but wow ._.
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10-31-2013, 08:02 AMTeaTimeBearYeah keep making yourself look real charming. There is never a moment when I'm NOT doing something. So don't judge me or my preference. Cause I could give a damn what you do in your party so don't you go telling me how I should role in mine. I get enough verbal abuse from ignorant customers at work. I don't need to come here so some ass on the internet can try to call me lazy while I attentively mend people in a party and watch for visual cues. In other words I am never idle so back off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippet
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10-31-2013, 08:04 AMLiadansWhisperSome tanks get really nervous if you're not constantly healing them. I asked one what was up, and he told me that he gets a lot of healers that are so focused on DPS that they don't cast any heals in a timely manner (or they forget they're in Cleric Stance or whatnot) and he ends up dying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windseraph
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10-31-2013, 11:24 AMVarok899Lol ya im done with you. Ive been praised many times for my healing/dps capabilities, I know exactly what Im doing. And Ive completed all of endgame except turn 5 so ya...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanika
Everything I say is literally going right over your little head and you refuse to see my logic. SS + Cure is never more efficient than regen + cure + dps, you don't know what you're talking about Zanika and it's as simple as that. But hey, keep using SS and being average, I apparently can't do anything to change your mind on it.
I look forward to your next BS post where you try to convince me SS is worth using on trash pulls in a dungeon. Please keep going, its amusing me now.
Whippet seems to be the only person with a clue in the last few pages of this thread, thankful for that. At least you're not all Derps. -
10-31-2013, 11:43 AMFinagleABagel
If you want to clear content faster you should always DPS. If you are a good healer, you should basically be open to DPS all of the time.
You can choose to simply heal, but that makes you a very average healer and you simply won't be taken for speed runs or later content. Your choice. Feel free to pick an inferior strategy, but acknowledge that it is, in fact, inferior. -
10-31-2013, 11:45 AMVarok899Yep, this ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by FinagleABagel
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10-31-2013, 12:06 PMBrises
I think every party should make that choice for themselves.
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10-31-2013, 12:26 PMLiadansWhisperI don't think speed runs qualify as "endgame content" in most games. They may count as it now, simply because there's hardly any endgame content to speak of.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinagleABagel
Given what I'm hearing about Coils, I somehow don't buy that you're DPSing 90 or even 50% of the time in Coils, except during very specific instances. -
10-31-2013, 12:53 PMLenusBorvoIt's funny that you label a good healer as someone that is open to DPS. However most of you all are neglecting the fact that the only time a healer has to dps is when the following scenarios are met.Quote:
Originally Posted by FinagleABagel
1) The tank and you both outgear the instance.
2) The instance is speed runable
3) Your in a pre-made group and your buddies know what you are doing
4) That you don't completely overgear the tank and take on massive aggro from Divine seal + regen + spamming holy during the AOE sessions within WP.
However in Duty Finder explicitly, it is generally not a good idea to even try. And on fights like Titan, where the average WHM will OOM as the stomps become heavier and heavier. So, other the to shave a few mins off of dungeons you have on farm a healer should never really dps, or they would of made us all dps specs with off healing abilties.
The only "job" that WHM or SCH have that were given to them by the developers were to heal others, this is also shown that the majority of bosses in this game do not REQUIRE a healer to dps at all to beat.
I DPS just fine in my groups where I know nothing is coming, but between you, Varok, and Whippet all of you get off your judgmental high horse and stick with your own groups because no one here wants to be in a party where they are bogart into doing anything by pure bullies out to toot their own horn. -
10-31-2013, 01:29 PMBrises
I think the healer/dd strategy should always be based on the group you are in, and the difficulty of the instance. On typical trash mobs, I am never in danger of running out of mp unless there is something wrong with the group, so yes I "could" dd if it was useful. Bosses, I generally wouldn't unless the party has a strategy that specifically calls for it. Even if there are times when damage is minimal, that can change in a hurry, and I don't want to be caught with not enough mp to keep up with healing. The other factor is, contribution in this thread not withstanding, a majority of parties out there do not expect a healer to dd, and some will bitch a healer out for doing so.
I go with whatever the party agrees on, and makes the run smooth. But what it all comes down to is, a healer has the option to dd, but the healer must never fail to heal when needed. -
10-31-2013, 02:10 PMZanikaI can say something very similar to you. Also, everyone note how this comment came right after this one:Quote:
Originally Posted by Varok899
Even better, you still ignore this post (too late to reply now):Quote:
Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper
But that's fine. You say you're done, so I'll just leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanika
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10-31-2013, 06:10 PMRaminax
It's sad how a helpful PSA turned into pages of bile and hatred being spewed. :(
Keep on being classy, ye overgeared people who have forgotten you once were noobs. -
10-31-2013, 06:18 PMSeezur_UndiesDO i agree with you....sorta and heres why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanaya
I do alot of WP runs, mostly through DF, and alot of those groups are fresh 50s that seen a shiny new instance they need to check out. Do i DPS, only when i feel like wiping the team (which btw is never) or when i forget i have my +1 on and pull everything off the new 50 tank with a single cure
I do run WP with FC mates that are geared and can handle the damage there and yes, then i will DPS because i know the 6 seconds it takes me to cleric stance, cast and cleric stance no one dies.
I have two macros i use when running heals that i think work well for me and may you:
/ac "Cleric Stance" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Aero II" <tt>
/wait 3
/ac "Thunder" <tt>
/wait 2
/ac "Cleric Stance" <me>
I use the <tt> here so i can keep the tank marked, and only attack what they are and not worry about pulling anything i dont want to.
Thinking of cutting that one in to two macros, but havent decided yet, and then this one when i get swarmed, ie new dps sees that sparkly trapped chest before the first boss
/ac "Cleric Stance" <me>
/ac "Holy" <me>
/ac "Cleric Stance: <me>
Now to tell some that chose a class that heals that they have to DPS is just wrong. they have the option to DPS, but they should not be obligated to. If they stand around and complain they are bored and they didn't DPS, maybe they should find a set up that helps them, like me, i had an issue with forgetting to get out of CS, so i made the macro (not that it always -CS but its 99% effective) but that is just me and how i play the game, I picked a heals class cause i want to heal, if i wanted to DD, i'd be a BLM -
10-31-2013, 09:00 PMTanayaBound to happen in OF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raminax
And I'm not sure how the topic came up, but I've explicitly stated I would advise against DPSing in Coil. You don't even have the accuracy for the bosses. -
10-31-2013, 09:08 PMPSxpert2011
I want to see a WHM dps in a party someday... whm dps on Ifrit (hard mode).
Go ahead, do it!
Drop on your knees...
Point a gun/knife to your head...
Shoot/ Stab yourself in the head and save us the grief :/ -
10-31-2013, 09:13 PMFinagleABagel
To the naysayers....I've been DPS'ing as a scholar since the mid 30's. You don't need to be overgeared. I also do not use macros, nor will I ever use them.
I also said earlier in this thread that I do not do much DPS'ing in Coil. That should be obvious. -
10-31-2013, 09:25 PMGarnatian
Why is this thread still alive?
You should DPS in any content that is trivial enough.
There is no discussion to be had. -
10-31-2013, 09:32 PMTanayaDone it before. No one died because Ifrit is not hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSxpert2011
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10-31-2013, 11:51 PMSeraviEdalborez1) Nope. Dungeons all the way to 50 are healer DPS-able. For pre-Brayflox it's practically effortless, post-Brayflox it's merely more challenging and dependent on how well the rest of your party is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by LenusBorvo
2) Nope. See above.
3) Nope. I do it in DF parties all the time. Comes with experience and knowing your limits. You take the first couple pulls to see how well your tank takes hits then factor that in. The second they start dipping, you stop and heal, then resume when safe.
4) *shrug* -
11-01-2013, 01:15 AMVyserion
Wow, this thread has some of the most arrogant children I've ever seen here.
Wow, this thread has some of the most arrogant children I've ever seen here.
This is a silly debate. Can you DPS every dungeon while healing it? Yes (and yes, it shaves time off your run, which is not always important or relevant to some people.) Is it necessary? Does it make you a better player? Probably not. For the majority of content where you have to be "skilled" (Titan HM and beyond) you're chain-healing and conserving mana/threat. The ability to stance dance is nice, but so far is not vital for any content in the game, it just gives you something else to do while you're healing.
Any tank that gets mad at a healer for either DPSing while healing or not dpsing while healing is retarded, provided the run is going smoothly with the healer's preferred playstyle. Period. I would say, for WHM's, dpsing while doing speed runs is quite nice because Holy is an amazing spell, but it by no means is a requirement nor should it be turned into a judgment of whether or not you're a good player.
For running dungeons, someone did point out that Regen + Healing + DPSing is more efficient than just using Cure and Stoneskin. This is true. However, few minutes shaved off of a speedrun probably won't be relevant to players who prefer to just-heal anyway, so the argument is really a moot point itself. The mentality that the fastest, most efficient way to play is the only relevant measure of skill is absurd. Put your epeen away, no one cares how big it is. -
11-01-2013, 02:57 AMNaylia
Couple of Points to Add to Original Post
- Don't forget Virus - Great Debuff
- Don't forget Stone I - Heavy can situationally be useful
- Don't forget to manage your enmity (this goes to every single class) - If you are over geared vs your tank - It's not the tanks job to generate more hate - It's your job to manage your hate so that you don't wipe the group.
- Make Target of Target macros to use in parties using <tt> - this lets you DPS without even moving your targeting off the tank - when your tank is topped up you can then DPS from a safe distance without re-targeting - if your tank gets smacked just interrupt yourself and start casting Cure II. -
11-01-2013, 06:27 AMYuriRamonaYou are not a better healer if you do not DPS.As other posters have said, being overgeared is not necessary to being able to DPS. See Seravi's post above. Duty Finder dungeons don't even allow you to be overgeared due to level sync, and yet you can still use many of the same tactics (including healer DPS).Quote:
Originally Posted by Raminax
And I don't know why posters should as yourself feel that this argument is sufficient enough to end this discussion. Obviously if content is trivial you can do whatever the hell you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnatian
The point of this thread is how to maximize your abilities and the effectiveness of the party to make even challenging content more and more trivial. And one of the tools of this is healers' damage abilities.
Of course it makes you a better player. There is one singular objective to every dungeon: completing the dungeon. Anything that makes this faster is, by definition, better. Everything that a player does to that end makes them a better player. This is absolutely black and white. Yes, I agree, it's not necessary to completion. It is not vital. But, nevertheless, yes, using all the tools in your toolbox to quicken that makes you a better player. This toolbox most definitely includes DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyserion
[Exceptions are any non-consensual or disruptive tactics. Again, any strategy must make the overall time better. If a DPS healer stresses out the tank, causes mistakes, or forces the party to hold back, that is obviously not better.]
If you prefer to heal, you have that right. A player and a party have the right to play this game in any way that they prefer, and to measure themselves on any metric. Playing for fun? Playing with friends? Playing... just for the joy of playing? Go for it! This is your money and your time.
The line is drawn when healers insist on sticking to their style and yet want to be placed on equal status with players who open their style to DPS abilities. No, you are not equal. No, you are not as good, or worthy of being in a particular party. Yes, the healer that is open to DPS is better. However, no, being DPS does not make you a better player/healer automatically. Obviously, the priority is on mastering your niche role (healing and support) in the party before exploring other roles (DPS).
People are pointing to events like Coil as examples of where DPS is not a viable tactic. Of course it is not a viable tactic, because every single player is vastly undergeared the minimum recommended set-up for an ilvl90 duty. Give it a few weeks (or days) for teams to start examining min/max and for healers to be clicking on Cleric Stance for phases of boss fights and tag-teaming with the second healer. -
11-01-2013, 06:39 AMMasta
clearly, everyone has opinions and frankly opinions are cheap, this whole thread gets summed up as thank you for your advice! (as I continue to do me and disregard 90% of this thread). Bad healer great healer, doesn't matter, fact remains...I'm here to kill internet dragons, and I do just that. Peace!
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11-01-2013, 07:49 AMYanDere
If the healer heals, he's doing his job. As long as no one dies and everyone is full HP, the healer can do what the hell he wants.
if I don't have to heal, I usually just sit and watch. It's useless to DPS as healer, you have DPSs for that.
When you have a DPS rush, like in Titan's p4, well then you can let a healer DPS if the other(s) can manage to heal alone, but against bosses like Caduceus, why should I DPS? To save 3 minutes? OMG, 3 minutes! I spent months and years FATE grinding and AK/WP speedrunning, but hey, 3 minutes!
No. I don't give a shit about 3 minutes less, I just want to beat the boss safely, just healing.
I often enter Sastasha, Tam-Tara or Copperbell (because I still didn't drop the Acolyte's Robe that I love), but I almost never DPS.
When I see that I have nothing to do and I don't risk to get aggroed, then I cast Aero and Aero II once on the boss, but still not switching ON-OFF Cleric Stance. -
11-01-2013, 10:57 AMBrisesNothing wrong with the OPs suggestions, but when verbiage is used like whm "should" dps, or "If you don't dps you aren't doing your job right" and other such comments, that's really nobodies business and uncalled for. As I have said, whether the healer should DD or not should be determined by the party. One thing I rarely see happen in a pug group, is people discussing strats at the start. Usually everyone just starts off, then people will get upset when things don't happen the way they should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raminax
Also, not to turn this into a PS3 vs PC debate, but PS3 hotbars only have 16 keys. You can make 8 different hotbars, but scrolling between hot bars during battle will not save time and the person can become confused. -
11-01-2013, 11:12 AMTanayaQuote:
Originally Posted by Brises
I personally find it very unfortunate that this thread has blown up in such a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanaya
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11-01-2013, 12:18 PMKrisstinaThose kids always looking for excuse to blame others, and u have just given what they needed..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanaya
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11-01-2013, 01:43 PMSeraviEdalborezThis should be required reading for all future replies :)Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriRamona
Edit: Below is a perfect example that didn't read.