I'm using WTFast and I've been having a better time of it, but it isn't a total cure. I still get the occasional period where it's bad, like just now it's been awful again and I got a good ol' 90k. Weirdly, if it's bad, then 75% of the time the connection will be listed on WTFast as Tokyo. The majority of the time it's listed as Montreal it's fine. Weird.
But yeah, I'm using the free month of WTFast and then going back to normal, if Square haven't got their house in order by that point then I'm done with it.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE FIX THIS MASSIVE LAG PROBLEM!
Printable View
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11-06-2013, 06:19 AMmayonnegg
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11-06-2013, 08:06 AMRaistSome problems with your analogy. You don't get your gas directly from the gas company--you get it from a retail store (well, most people do... you may be connected, who knows).Quote:
Originally Posted by gamepob
The point is, you bought a retail product--you go to your retailer first. If the Mercedes dealership pulled a gas sample and tested it for water and found it suffered from a high enough level of phase separation (usually the case) to degrade it too much, then you go to the gas station for your remedy. They would check their tanks for water, if it is found to be out of the allowed limits, then they would need to investigate if it was caused by faulty equipment on their end, or if it came from their supplier that way and then pursue the supplier or delivery company if they determine one of them may be at fault, and so and so forth on up the chain.
This is actually a very common problem by the way. Gas stations can and DO sell bad gas more often than people may realize--and it's gotten worse as ethanol blending has increased over the years. Ethanol is drawn to water--if water gets in the gas, it draws ethanol out of the gas (phase seperation). If it happens enough, it will reduce the combustion resistance index (Octane, RON, MON, AKI, etc.) to the point that your engine can't run on it properly. Your owner's manual gives a specific index for the minimum rating your vehicle is designed to run on. This is calculated based on specific characteristics of your engine (compression, ignition timing, fuel mixture, etc.). There are dozens of sensors in today's fuel injection engines to try to adjust things to compensate for abnormalities detected in fuel, air, compression, vacuum, and ignition parameters--but it can only adjust so far to try to maintain a smooth running engine. If you put gas in there that is too far out of spec (not only too low, but potentially too high), you can suffer from various symptoms including but not limited to rough idle, sputtering, knocking/pinking, loss of power, overrun, poor fuel economy...
It's a very common occurrence for fuel to be held suspect and tested depending on the symptoms found. And it's nothing new. At my first job in grade school nearly 30 years ago (convenience store), we regularly tested our gas for water and if it was too far out of spec we had to shut down the pumps until it could be corrected. There is also a filtration system that must be maintained as well. There are multiple points for water and other contaminants to get into the supply chain, and the retailers have a vested interest in making sure they catch it before it gets to the customer's tanks (for obvious reasons--fuel system repairs can get expensive, and so can litigation).
So, in your given example... you very well could have gotten contaminated gas at the pump, and they directed you to the proper people, but you may not have understood what they meant. It isn't necessarily the brand or grade (unless you had 87 in a high compression engine built to run on 89 or higher), the gas was sub-par on the index level, or otherwise contaminated to the point it could not burn properly.
So... if you fully understand the problem being detected, discussed, and <hopefully> reported, your analogy is actually inline with what is proposed. You bought a service/product that is not performing up to par. You need to go to the people responsible for providing that product/service for a remedy/correction. They need specific information to properly assess your situation, diagnose, test, and ultimately provide an acceptable solution.
That is what has been proposed--to provide useful information to the people who can properly assess, diagnose, test, and ultimately work towards an acceptable solution. It isn't asking the players to do any diagnoses as you stated either. It is asking them to use tools built into the operating system to create a simple report to better identify much needed elements of their particular connection that is exhibiting problems, and then forward it to the people with whom the player has entered into retail transactions with to request them to look into the problem. These are the people we have the expectation of quality with, so they are the ones we go to for a remedy.
By the way, SE does the same thing when you submit a support ticket. In case some of you guys haven't tried to do it yet, they have you run a tool to generate a report with your system information in it (either a dxdiag report or run the System Information app located in your XIV folder on your start menu), and copy/paste that report into your submission. It is the SAME process, just different tools to gather different information--details about your connection, which is what we are trying to get addressed. You can't even submit the ticket if that field is left blank--you have to put something in that system info box or it keeps giving you an error message.
Just like with the gas station example, if they find nothing on their end, they need to move on to the next link in the supply/delivery chain and address the issue with their partners--the people they have entered into transactions with for services and with whom they have an expectation for delivery of a quality product/service. And so and so forth on down the chain until they find who is responsible for remedying the situation. But without any concrete evidence that there was actually a problem with the product, you will have a much harder chance of getting them to actually take any action. For that purpose, we always provide our customers with an ample sample of their gas to use for that purpose (and yes, we see it happen often, especially during long rainy periods). The important thing is to get it started properly so that it can move up that chain as needed to get it addressed. Many simply are NOT doing that properly by simply posting complaints about the lag in this user-to-user forum, which is why I recommended that course of action in the third post two weeks ago. -
11-06-2013, 08:38 AMRaistGuess not... still showing congestion coming through that DC/Virginia corridor:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
Fortunately, my latency has dropped considerably with the last reroute by TWC, so it's more manageable than most are dealing with still.Code:C:\Windows\System32>pathping 199.91.189.74
Tracing route to 199.91.189.74 over a maximum of 30 hops
<Initial hops removed for security>
4 xe-8-2-1.rlghncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.98]
5 107.14.19.42
6 ae0.pr1.dca10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.200]
7 * ix-17-0.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.149]
8 if-2-2.tcore1.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.2]
9 64.86.85.1
10 if-10-2.tcore1.TTT-Scarborough.as6453.net [64.86.32.33]
11 if-9-9.tcore1.TNK-Toronto.as6453.net [64.86.33.25]
12 if-7-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96.61]
13 66.198.96.50
14 192.34.76.2
15 199.91.189.234
16 199.91.189.74
Computing statistics for 400 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 31ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% xe-8-2-1.rlghncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.98]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 37ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 107.14.19.42
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 36ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ae0.pr1.dca10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.200]
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 35ms 48/ 100 = 48% 48/ 100 = 48% ix-17-0.tcore2.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.149]
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 35ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% if-2-2.tcore1.AEQ-Ashburn.as6453.net [216.6.87.2]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 55ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% 64.86.85.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
10 56ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% if-10-2.tcore1.TTT-Scarborough.as6453.net [64.86.32.33]
0/ 100 = 0% |
11 57ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% if-9-9.tcore1.TNK-Toronto.as6453.net [64.86.33.25]
0/ 100 = 0% |
12 61ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% if-7-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96.61]
0/ 100 = 0% |
13 59ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 66.198.96.50
0/ 100 = 0% |
14 59ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.34.76.2
0/ 100 = 0% |
15 58ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% 199.91.189.234
0/ 100 = 0% |
16 57ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 199.91.189.74
Trace complete.
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11-06-2013, 05:35 PMgamepobThis is the core of a problem. That's why I gave you such an analogy. As a test to see if you understand. And you clearly do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
LARGE MAJORITY of car users or computer players DO NOT have the correct set of skills or knowledge to even understand the problem, let alone find a solution for it on their own. And many, many of them also do not have the desire to work on the solution for something they bought and they did it with an assumption of quality. Quality they are used to from similar products. Game and car are products which users buy for themselves. Internet traffic and petrol is something they are forced to use by those that sold them those products. So who should be responsible for ensuring the quality of those intermediaries the end user has to use? The one that demands those things to be used. Not end user.
It's clear you have the desire to help and the knowledge to do so, but this is something that SE needs to do. Either by giving all ISPs a flick on the wrist or something else.
The funny thing about analogies is that they are similar to bible. You can get whatever you want from them if you torture them enough. :) -
11-07-2013, 05:01 AMAmcathra
Another useless evening trying to play in European prime-time. All the problems are ONLY from IP's belonging to square enix on the way to odin server!.
Support staff and technicians from Square Enix is just a bunch of useless tards, and the management is a bunch of selfless pathetic human beings only trying to to milk the cash without putting ANY effort at all into the game. This game is just end up as the first one. TOTAL FIASKO!
Ticket Number: 3121956
http://i.imgur.com/3vJBTzi.png -
11-07-2013, 05:48 AMLurkiosThis, ladies and gentleman, is a beautiful example of how to get yourself ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amcathra
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11-07-2013, 07:53 AMTakophiliacNo... he explained it, you failed to comprehend.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamepob
Square isn't asking you to diagnose the problem, they are asking for information which they can use in diagnosis. This is what Raist was trying to explain to you.
In fact, after your quoted line, he more or less agrees with you that Square needs to address the issue, as Square is the only entity with the resources and a stake in the problem. -
11-07-2013, 08:11 AMwhilkehttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...P2P-throttlingQuote:
Originally Posted by Takophiliac
What's next? We've been providing them information they've asked for for over two months now. -
11-07-2013, 08:40 AMRaistI understand that you clearly misrepresented how your proposed scenario typically plays out. Your service advisor would clarify why your gas is bad for your engine--even if it was to simply say your gas is cloudy when you should be able to see through it clearly, or that your engine is designed to run on 89 octane and not the regular 87 octane you just put in it. Also, when recommending you try getting your gas elsewhere, they would likely clarify that as well. They may have had multiple customers come in recently with contaminated gas who purchased it from the same store, chain, or merchants who use the same distributor, so they may recommend someone by name/brand simply because experience has shown them to be reliable, or they may advise you on how to chose a station more likely to better maintain their tanks and equipment if that has been suspected at the location you last purchased gas from. Perhaps one brand's regular grade has been shown to still work well in your high compression engine even though it isn't the recommended 89 octane, while another brand's regular grade does not. That's likely due to differences in production/blending, so if you recently changed brands that might come into play and so they may recommend you switch back to what was known to work. The point is, there would be some sort of dialogue about why the current tank of gas is not good enough for your particular vehicle, and what you may be able to do to avoid it from happening again. Beginning to wonder if you've ever even experienced this situation first hand. I did probably a dozen times this summer at our lot--and many times the customers got gas from the same truck stop out on the edge of town.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamepob
It may actually be more that you aren't fully understanding exactly what has been discussed throughout this thread (and many others like it).
Not saying the customers need to research, diagnose, and find a solution for themselves. Saying they need to properly submit a support ticket to SE--one that includes the results of a simple report available in all versions of Windows this game runs on and only takes a few minutes to run. It is the same requirement and process SE asks of you when you open a support ticket, it's just running a different tool to get details about your connection instead of your system specs. Your ticket can't be submitted without providing system information by the way.... they did that for a reason. They may need some specific details on your system to work on your problem. Likewise, they may need specific details about your connection to work on this problem. Therefore, it is wise to include it with your support request if you can. If a user is not familiar or comfortable with how to generate that report, all they need to do is ask and there are many who can and will help them out.Quote:
LARGE MAJORITY of car users or computer players DO NOT have the correct set of skills or knowledge to even understand the problem, let alone find a solution for it on their own. And many, many of them also do not have the desire to work on the solution for something they bought and they did it with an assumption of quality. Quality they are used to from similar products.
That is, after all how SE intended this forum to work. Users helping Users to find solutions to their problems. It was NEVER intended to be a direct line for requesting support from SE--they clearly stated it is meant to be users helping users first and foremost. If the moderators see something come up and they have information that may prove helpful that has not already been provided, they may post it or provide links. But, it was never intended to be regular communication between users and support staff, but user to user assistance. They have a portal specifically set up for more direct contact with the support staff, and a separate forum for submitting bug reports.
No one is forcing you to buy a particular brand or grade of gas, nor are they forcing you to buy it from a particular merchant. You are free to get your gas from what ever pump you so choose (so long as you pay for it). Heck, you could even pump Diesel, E-85, or Kerosene in there if you wanted---but it is highly advised that you stick to the type and grade of gas recommended in your user manual for your engine to run properly.Quote:
Game and car are products which users buy for themselves. Internet traffic and petrol is something they are forced to use by those that sold them those products. So who should be responsible for ensuring the quality of those intermediaries the end user has to use? The one that demands those things to be used. Not end user.
Likewise, SE is not forcing you to use any one Internet Service Provider over another (outside of where you get on their ISP's network to finally hit SE's internal network)--but that is true of any communication service. The same thing applies to cell phone and landline calls if the person you are calling is out of your local provider's network. Providing you have more than one option in your area for internet access (we basically only have two for wired residential service here, all else is wireless or more commercial media like business class fiber or T1), you are free to choose amongst your options. If anyone is forcing your connection through a particular ISP in route, it would be your ISP or the ISP's they partnered with to handle the ongoing path outside of their network to get you to SE's ISP and ultimately their network.
You have entered into transactions with your ISP and SE for products/services, so they are the ones who are obligated to support you as best as they can with those products/services--any issues with parties between them are to be resolved with those who partnered with them for service... not with you directly. So, it would be best to request assistance from those who have an obligation to assist you. Since it has been established there is a connectivity issue that is dramatically affecting gameplay, your ISP is a very strong candidate for that assistance. Since it is an issue with SE's gameplay experience, it also makes them a strong candidate. So, both should be contacted--but they will need specific information from you to properly diagnose your problem. Since this is a communications problem between the server and client, they will need specific details about your connection.Quote:
It's clear you have the desire to help and the knowledge to do so, but this is something that SE needs to do. Either by giving all ISPs a flick on the wrist or something else.
That issue has never been in question by the way. Everyone agrees there is a problem with the clients being able to effectively communicate with the servers. No matter where they think the problem lies, it all boils down to communication problems. There has been lots of testing to verify that when the game is lagging like crap, there are signs of trouble in route to the servers. Some have managed to find a way to change to a better routing path and have substantially reduced that lag because of it--whether that is the use of a VPN, or their ISP changing their route after someone opened a ticket with them about the roblem. That is regardless of anything SE has done. No maintenance happened, no reboot of the servers--their routing simply changed to a cleaner route and gameplay improved. Let's restate that again, in case it hasn't sunk in yet. Improving the quality of one's connection/routing specifically to SE's servers has reduced their lag and improved gameplay quality.
Now, knowing all that, it isn't far fetched to expect that if you can find someone to investigate your connectivity and routing to see if there is an issue with it, and if problems are found for them to address them... that you too may have your lag reduced and therefore have an improved gameplay experience. In order to do that, they will need specific details on your connection so they can identify just where the problem lies, and what needs to be done to remedy it. Otherwise, they may be just shooting blindly. They can't diagnose YOUR connectivity by testing connectivity to Google, or TWC's depot 10 miles from your house. They need to be looking specifically at YOUR connection... YOUR path to the servers. So, it is in your best interest to provide as much detail about your connection when you request support.
/facepalmQuote:
The funny thing about analogies is that they are similar to bible. You can get whatever you want from them if you torture them enough. :)
The analogies are presented to give people real world examples of how you go about resolving quality issues with a product/service in general. You get far better results if you provide details of your problem than if you just run around telling everyone who will listen that you got a bad product. Heaven forbid someone recommends you actually contact someone who can DO something about your problem, and suggests you come prepared with at least a brief description of just what your problem is when you contact them.
To frame that in the context of your analogy:
Complaining to everyone on the freeway about how crappy your car is running does nothing to get your car fixed--unless perhaps you stumble across a mechanic who is able to diagnose it on the spot I guess. Now, if someone comes along and says they or someone they knew just had the same thing happen with their car. They stop and take their time to discuss what the problem may be, and then advise you how you might be able to get someone to check that out for you and hopefully fix it. What is your next course of action? Do you take that advice to heart and actually ask the right person the right questions, get your problem checked out and hopefully resolved... or do you just go right on b!tching and moaning to anyone who will listen, hoping that your car manufacturer will eventually hear you are unhappy and show up to fix your car.
That is basically what we have here. People complaining the game is laggy to other players. They aren't complaining directly to SE here (go back and read the guidelines for this forum--they were also linked in my previous post). And even if they were shouting into SE's ear in this forum, they aren't providing needed information for them to be able to address their problem.
That is why I directed the OP as I did 2 weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
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11-07-2013, 08:55 AMRaistWell, they worked with O2 to resolve some issues with packets being classified incorrectly in a handful of segments for the UK. It's excruciatingly slow progress... but, still progress I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by whilke
Might speed things up a bit if more people would submit more connection details (like a tracert) than just the ISP info SE requested in an actual support ticket, and also open a similar ticket with their ISP.
The more details and pressure that is put on everyone involved, the more likely we are to get action taken for everyone and not just the small handful that have already done so and gotten some relief. -
11-07-2013, 09:02 AMArkghyom
It's time...
http://www.fmylife.com/ -
11-07-2013, 09:36 AMwhilkeI'm not submitting tickets to anyone, or spending any time troubleshooting the issue. it's pretty binary. Either they fix the problem and and I stay, or they don't fix it and I stop paying them money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
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11-07-2013, 10:02 AMbuttfishexactly isnt that part of what we pay them the monthly fee forQuote:
Originally Posted by whilke
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11-07-2013, 10:30 AMwhilkeBasically, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttfish
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11-07-2013, 05:26 PMgamepobNo. What we have here is a lot of people that don't understand why they are experiencing something they don't experience in any other similar product. What we have here is people that don't understand why there is no official response on this issue. What we have here is people that would simply like to use the product they bought to it's fullest without delving into it's deeper functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
You pop a pill into your mouth because you want it's benefits. You don't want to know how it works. (Here is another analogy for your to disseminate :)).
I agree that without reporting a problem, there simply cannot be a solution. But how do you report a problem to someone that doesn't even acknowledge the problem exists, even after many such reports were already made? Correct me if I am wrong, please, but SE is kind of "La, la, la. Nothing wrong here."?
off topic: Analogy is the worst representation of the real world, because it holds the true meaning only to the one that made it. All those that react to the analogy either over or under simplify it. The two of us present a perfect example for it. :) -
11-08-2013, 02:53 AMntall1
I gave up on this two months ago. I know the issue is slightly beyond SE's ability to deal with over night. But the lack of official statement on the issue is why I will not even be thinking about re subbing in the future. This is not the first game from SE to have issues like this with little to no support.
I originally wanted to play this game BECAUSE it was a sub based game. I was under the impression that the game would be better than other MMO's out today because players would be paying monthly for it. What makes me mad here is that I get better support, and communication from f2p games, and that should not be. The only reason players are paying subs for this game is because SE is greedy. This game is no where near the quality that one would expect for a subscription cost, and the support and communication from the company is by far the worst I have seen in years.
When I try to think back on the last game I played that had this many issues and total lack of communication and support from the company... Turns out it was also SE. Starting to form a pattern here.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... shame on me. -
12-02-2013, 02:27 AMSetzer_Gabbiani^this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntall1
and bump. -
12-02-2013, 02:41 AMErvin
For me the lag is a game-breaker. I thought about taking a semi-break when BF4 was released, just do the important stuff like getting the weekly tome cap. Turned out that grinding those tomes with lag everynight wasnt as fun as playing BF, so after 2 days of doing a few instances for tomes I stopped logging in.
My sub is up in a few days and I highly doubt I'll resub for another month. Patch looks interesting, but with the horrible lag it wont be enjoyable or worth the monthly fee.
I cant remember the last game I played that had this many issues for such a lengthy period of time and zero communication with the players. If I knew this was going to be the case I wouldnt have wasted time and money on this game in the first place. -
12-02-2013, 02:53 AMGothmog
It's a routing issue, not really SE's issue. I have Time Warner Cable, and when I use my connection normally, the lag is horrendous. However, if I use my VPN with a totally different route, I have no lag issues whatsoever.
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12-02-2013, 05:03 AMRaistIf only more people understood this... no matter how many times it's been shown to be true, some just refuse to accept it. Guess it's just easier to whine and complain then to follow the proper support process and actually get it fixed. All it took to get mine resolved was to take a few tracerts, open a suppoprt ticket with SE, and send a few emails to my ISP. Sure, it's been an ongoing process, but Time Warner has been working on it, and it continually improves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothmog
They've brought me back to Charlotte again, but this time around I'm not getting the 25-48% packet loss. It's still pulling in around 7% during prime time, but it's a VAST improvement. Not bad for about 15 minutes of work pulling in the PROPER people to resolve the problem.Code:Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\Documents and Settings\DarrenBoyd>tracert 199.91.189.74
Tracing route to 199.91.189.74 over a maximum of 30 hops
<initial hops removed for security>
4 26 ms 23 ms 27 ms xe-7-0-0.chrlncpop-rtr1.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.42]
5 26 ms 31 ms 32 ms bu-ether34.atlngamq46w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.48]
6 28 ms 28 ms 29 ms ae-0-0.pr0.atl20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.171]
7 80 ms 79 ms 80 ms te0-0-0-10.ccr21.atl02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.12.109]
8 79 ms 75 ms 74 ms be2050.ccr21.atl01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.0.165]
9 88 ms 86 ms 91 ms be2168.ccr21.dca01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.94]
10 96 ms 96 ms 94 ms be2148.ccr21.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.31.118]
11 121 ms 111 ms 107 ms be2106.ccr21.ymq02.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.3.50]
12 49 ms 51 ms 50 ms 38.122.42.34
13 63 ms 64 ms 64 ms 10.2.2.1
14 64 ms 99 ms 64 ms 192.34.76.2
15 63 ms 63 ms 68 ms 199.91.189.234
16 63 ms 63 ms 63 ms 199.91.189.74
Trace complete.
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12-02-2013, 08:10 AMErvin
It's still not acceptable. Most companies tend to solve issues like this one way or the other. It's quite annoying when XIV is the only game having these issues for most players.
I can sit down and play whatever MMO there is, on US servers from europe and have zero issues except the slightly higher base latency. Then it comes to XIV, decent latency (would like a pure EU choice either way), then around 18.00-22.00 the increadible 5-10sec lag starts again.
It's not acceptable for a sub-based game where we pay for top of the line service. I havent experienced anything close to as bad as this currently is during 12+ years of MMOing, not even in F2P games. -
12-02-2013, 08:13 AMSetzer_GabbianiSadly, you misunderstand that not every problem that concerns ingame lags is solved by contacting the provider. I already opened a ticket with SE days ago - still no response in any way. The connection i get from my provider has been tested - everything fine on that side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
If this would be an early access game, an indie game still in development or anything else, okay i would understand. But a game that has been redone and has been released months ago with a monthly fee? Every hint & tip i read so far has been provided by players - not support. Asking a monthly fee for that kind of unfinished product is just ridiculous. -
12-02-2013, 02:29 PMHugeDinoYeah, it's proven to be a routing issue, but how has SE, when some of the longest-running forum threads are about this specific issue, not given any official statement on it? If this is a routing issue that's ISP specific, why is it ONLY this game that anybody has a problem with? If it is strictly a routing issue one would think Square has the means to make a phone call to TWC and make the routing for their game stop sucking ass. I've sent multiple tickets to SE and gotten the same canned response, sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by Gothmog
"Regarding your request for technical support. Please find your answer below. If you are disconnected during play or logged out due to an unstable connection, there is a possibility of a transmission issue.",
even though I clearly outline the issue, provide tracerts, links to forum threads of others with the same issue, and certainly do NOT describe it in any way to lead someone to believe I am somehow disconnecting from the game. I'm calling Square tomorrow.
Nobody paying for this game monthly should have to jump through hoops to get a half-ass result on the issue of horrible lag/freezing/rubberbanding issues. Square needs to buck the f*ck up and realize this problem, or else I'm not renewing my sub, and I'm personally going to the Squeenix offices and giving a wedgie, swirlie, and handjob to EVERY Square employee that helped create and ignore this problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
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12-03-2013, 07:03 AMmisterdapi
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12-03-2013, 10:42 AMRaist
to quote Dennis Miller... "I don't mean to go off on a rant here...", but these last few posts have just flipped a switch I guess.
[rant]
Some of you keep assuming it is only affecting FFXIV. I assure you, it is much more widespread. Just take a look at TWC's own forums under connectivity, and you will see reports of issues with bandwidth, latency, and packet loss in general, and not just for FFXIV. When I pulled it up just now, there was a thread showing about issues with Starcraft2.
http://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5...p/connectivity
And this isn't some year old thread that got bumped (though, there are plenty of them out there that have cropped up the last 7 years). This was started TODAY, and another poster even stated having issues with WOW as well.
http://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5...p/12569#U12569
These kinds of threads have been on their forums for months now... and it's not just for FFXIV. In fact, I've only seen FFXIV mentioned a few times there... but when it was it was in reference to high latency and packet loss being found in route. And it isn't just TWC--it's at other ISP's forums, other game developers forums, and various user sites that discuss games.
The point is, it isn't just one specific game's issue, but more a widespread issue with congestion in routing that is impacting specific corridors. Your other games may behave better simply because they are following different routes, or their twitch factor is not as impacted because there is lower natural latency--there can be various elements at play here, simply because of where you are starting from, where you are going, and how you are being directed there. You may be taking a vastly different route to get to a west coast US server or a New York based server than you do to Canada from where you are... and this can make a profound difference on your routing options compared to getting into Montreal. When you run into a troubled route, there may not be many mechanics to help you avoid high congestion because of limited pathways available to Montreal with your ISP's partners, whereas they may have far more options to New York or Washington.
Bear in mind that when your ISP looks at your LOCAL connection, it is likely going to look OK... otherwise you would be having VERY widespread issues. The problems are being detected along specific routes--typically beyond the local segments, and most often outside of your own ISP's direct network hardware... but it IS on their PARTNER'S network. Something that fails to be understood here. You have a business agreement with your ISP for providing reliable service. They in turn have business agreements with their partners to provide reliable service, which they extend to you when providing you your service. Therefore, they have an obligation to investigate issues that are identified with their partners that are affecting your service. The trick is getting them to acknowledge there is a problem that needs to be investigated. Providing tracerts and/or pathpings provides such evidence.
And btw... this isn't working to fix your problem with FFXIV as much as it is fixing a problem with your routing service. This specific problem with FFXIV is a symptom of a problem with your routing. It could just as easily be an issue with accessing other content in Canada--it just so happens you found the problem accessing FFXIV. But the problem is with routing service to Montreal, and possibly other areas of Canada, and maybe also the MidWest, and Washington, and the VA/DC areas. For instance, it could potentially be any traffic to anywhere that gets routed through Ashburne, VA or the DC area because of problems coming from TATA's segments there. If your ISP is partnered to use their particular segments (like, say TWC's NOC in Herndon VA), they may run into trouble when routing through there if a TATA circuit there goes AWOL under heavy loads. This is a systemic problem within networking partners' segments that needs to be addressed when discovered regardless of what content is being accessed--their routing/maintenance policies are failing to provide reliable service for their business partners and it needs to be addressed. PERIOD.
As for SE's silence on the matter, they have publicly acknowledged there are networking problems and that they are aware of routing issues and are investigating the problems... both here and the producer himself has come forth and touched on it in interviews. They typically do not release specific details until they are sure they can be released--so long as they are dealing with ambiguous information, they will hold off on releasing information in case it turns out to be inaacurate. It's kind of a JP thing I guess.. or perhaps just SE, who knows. But it is how it has been for nearly a decade now with them, and really is not out of the norm for them once you understand this is how they always operate. They have been noted that it is ISP's that need to be worked with concerning the matter.
This does not necessarily mean YOUR ISP that you contract with (ie: TWC). Internet Service Providers exist on varying levels including but not limited to Government Entities and Universities--it's not always the commercial endpoint like TWC that is providing the service. It is a vast array of entities that manage small sections of a vast array of networks that must all work together to get you from point A to B. Look at Hawaii as an example. Local subnets throughout the island are managed by a small handful of entities (University of Hawaii plays a big role here), and they must partner with a select few people to get to either eastern or western mainlands where it then must get sloughed off to a backbone to fan out to the rest of that mainland. There can be multiple points of failure just getting to that mainland backbone, and then heaven knows how many points of failure after that. You can be talking well upwards of 20 hops to get to Montreal from Honolulu, depending on just how your routing is handled. In a post over at that same TWC forum linked earlier about lag from Hawaii, it was taking a guy 13 hops just to get to LAX in California.
So, yeah... even though it may be a copy/pasted, canned reply to them when you contact them about connectivity issues for them to say it is a transmission error... they are actually being pretty accurate in that description. There is a problem transmitting your data from point A to B. While that can also encompass communication issues at their server level, it also includes issues with communications between the client and server--that includes problems that fall within the scope of jurisdiction for your ISP, SE's ISP, and all the points in between you and your client. Note this also includes your local system and network--it could be even be your protocol stack in Windows that is hosed. The point is there are a lot of points of failure that need to be diagnosed, and more help may be needed as it may be something out of their direct control. In fact, this point has already been well established--that a large majority of the problems stem from 3rd party ISP issues.
Thus, it has become an issue that needs to be addressed by ALL the ISP's involved-- yours, theirs, partners of each entity at those endpoints and any point in between where the congestion is identified as being problematic. The problem is that this has become a moving target. Your best advocate is going to be the ISP's at the endpoints at this point (yours and SE's ISP's). But, those ISP's at the endpoints have to acknowledge there is a problem in the route. Since it typically is not found in the local segments, but somewhere deeper in the route and often halfway across the country, they need to be looking BEYOND your local segments. This is not typically done by your helpdesk/local guys--they are likely more along levels of Tier1 and tier2, what you need is T3 or higher. That's where providing a simple tracert or pathping can help--it provides details that can be escalated to the NOC for proper evaluation at the higher tiers.
And it's not jumping through a bunch of hoops to do it either--it's a simple tool that exists in all versions of Windows that can be used to generate the data needed to tell them where they need to look. You don't even have to bother with the whole copy/paste from the DOS box... you can output it directly to a text file. Here's an example:
Open a CMD Prompt. From the Run or Search box on your Start Menu or Charms bar, type the letters "cmd". Run that command/executable that shows up in the search results or in your Run box. This will open the black DOS box with a flashing cursor for inputing a command. Type this command, editing it for your server's IP address and the name/path of the output file you want to use and press <enter> to run it:
This will output the trace results to a text file called FFXIV_TRACE.txt at the root of the C: drive. When your blinking cursor comes back on a new line, it has finished running that trace. Youcan press the up arrow key to pull up that command from the history and run it again by pressing the <enter> key again. Each time you run it, it will append the results into that same file. So, if you run it 3 times, then it will log 3 traces in that one file. Then you can email that file or open it and copy/paste to your heart's content to get it to SE and your ISP for analysis. The process just takes minutes to do, and can lead to improvements without any further work on your end... as mentioned earlier, it only took a few emails about 2 months ago to get the ball rolling on my connection, and they are still tweaking things.Code:tracert 199.91.189.74>>C:\FFXIV_TRACE.txt
For future reference, this same process could/should be done anytime you are having stability issues with your connection to specific content--or just web access in general. It shows specific details about your connection that they can use to replicate your specific issue for diagnosing the problem. In case some of you didn't know, they can terminal into nework devices and run pings/traces from varying points along the route you provide, so they can focus more on your specific problem and <hopefully> find just where your issue is coming from. THAT is why it's so beneficial to generate and forward these simple reports--it provides a roadmap for addressing specifically YOUR issues, and not some generic test that comes back as good connectivity--it allows them to actually see where your specific communication problems are occuring.[/rant]
TLDR: It is not just FFXIV experiencing problems. It is widespread across various content and NOT just online games. SE has acknowledged it as a communication problem happening at the ISP levels (this is not just your ISP, or theirs--it includes the partners of those ISP's that work together for world-wide web connectivity), and have encouraged people to report connection details both to SE and their ISP's in the hopes of moving towards a solution to the problems people are having. So for users to get the "canned" replies about errors in transmission, and recommendations to contact their providers--SE is actually providing a fairly accurate description of the problem, as well as a plausible course of action. Through cooperative efforts with some players and ISP's, progress has been made in some markets--but it is not a fast and simple fix that can be applied globally. It is a moving target that must be addressed on at the least a regional basis, possibly even down to a more local granularity. Thus, the more people that can provide more specific details (ie: tracerts/pathpings) to provide a better roadmap to where the problems are occurring, the more progress can be made. It isn't a highly complicated/lengthy process to generate these reports to copy/paste them into support tickets for both SE and one's ISP--many users have tried to provide assistance in doing this---repeatedly. For many of those who have followed through with this process effectively, they have seen progress in resolving their issues. We simply need more people to lean on the endpoints (SE and their ISP) to look into the matter beyond just the local segments, as it has been shown that the problem appears to be outside of those localized networks and with the routing partners. -
12-03-2013, 02:35 PMgant2k1
lol whos gonna read all that ^^
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12-03-2013, 03:11 PMyoshi71089I did, and it actually was a good post. Very informative; points out that the problem is larger and more wide-spread than the community is aware of.Quote:
Originally Posted by gant2k1
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12-03-2013, 03:38 PMMailstrum
I live in Michigan it takes me 8 hops for me to get to the servers in monteral 5 in Michigan for frontier then 1 in chicago and 2 in monteral. I get horrible lag and 90k errors at least 10 times a night. Its crazy.
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12-03-2013, 04:03 PMmisterdapi
So, everyone says Tata Communications is the problem, looks like we need to let them know.
A list of Tata Communications office locations worldwide.
Tata Communications would love to hear from you!
Send them your trace routes now!
helpdesk@tatacommunications.com
customerservice@tatacommunications.com
San Jose (Also known as the Palo Alto Hop)
2077 Gateway Place
Suite 150
San Jose, CA 95110
USA
Tel +1.408.437.4710
Montreal (Yeah, where all the NA/EU servers are)
1555 Rue Carrie-Derick
Montreal, Quebec
Canada H3C 6W2
Tel +1.514.868.7272
So Its seems that people rather talk about how bad the lag is. Here is your chance to improve it.
Tata Communications would love to hear from you!
ILL and VoIP customers:
Call: 1800-419-2200 or
email us: helpdesk@tatacommunications.com
Broadband and other customers:
call: 6060 7070 or 1800 209 7070
email us: customerservice@tatacommunications.com
Fax Number: 022 6667 1029 / 022-66605335 -
12-04-2013, 07:02 AMKyri
If this isn't bad enough every few patches controller users get hit with this "bug" that causes us to do the stupidest things like pause and not move for 4 seconds, or autorun for 5 seconds or spam the x or up or down button every 0.100 seconds for 5 seconds even make the camera spin randomly for the same amount of time. This makes endgame absolutely impossible in many situations for controller users. How am I supposed to fight titan/demonwall ADS when im going to get hit with a "stop moving" "Auto run off the edge" or up up up up spam for 5 seconds every few minutes, sometimes sooner?? Its bad enough we have to cramp our index fingers hitting ls/r2 all the time to fight.. I miss FFXIV 1.0 controllers, not only did my fingers hurt a whole lot less I NEVER had this problem.
(no I do not play on wireless controllers, I don't have lag(except once a blue moon) and ive watched/listened to other people have their controllers do the exact same thing at the exact same time) -
12-04-2013, 12:31 PMSnowcone
I didnt have a problem with lag until about a week ago. There have been several updates and bam, lag. And it won't go away. Can't even craft without lag. Forget Titan hardmode. Tried it with our FC two nights ago, just couldn't happen, the lag was so bad. Every dungeon has lag now.
So, say what you want about providers, and IP addresses, the pings, etc. I have not changed my provider and the game worked. Three members of my household play this game. Logic says if we didn't have a problem until one week ago (after updates), and we never changed providers, the problem is with Square Enix. And as a lay person who just gets on the internet and expects it to work, I never realized I had to have a computer science degree to play FFXIV. This lag is getting old real fast. -
12-04-2013, 01:34 PMRaistIf routing and web traffic were static and consistent, this would be very sound logic. Unfortunately this is not the case. It's a continually moving target, and the ISP's have to continually tweak, re-route, update, upgrade... just to try to stay ahead of the congestion curve. So, it still has to be tested and verified it at both ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowcone
Fortunately, you <should> have an advocate in your ISP to help with that. Ideally, all you should need to do is contact them with the details and they take over from there. The trick is getting them to really look at the problem--why it's important to get them at least the IP address your client is using so they can properly look into it.
Providing something like a trace can help speed up the process (especially if it shows evidence of problems, as it backs up your claim about having issues), but if they have your IP and the game's IP you are using, they can terminal in and generate the reports themselves. It just may be harder to convince them they need to investigate things beyond whether your modem has good connectivity if you can't provide them some compelling evidence they need to look deeper.