Please finally fix Tank, DPS and Healer roles SE

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

It doesnt have to be complicated though. We can keep the healing kits as they are. Just nerf tank mitigation to make healers have something more substantial to do than just spamming one button. We have so much healing abilities yet theres not as used in all forms of content

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That I can agree on. Tanks shouldn't be able to survive for entire fights without a healer present. That breaks the trinity completely, and without enrage timers, DPS become pointless as well. I think the problem is the threads I see keep saying a variety of things from fixing healers, making them do more dps, tanks are too strong, etc, when I agree, a simple change would be to reduce the tank self-healing by a good amount and see how that looks.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't think it is an issue of making them more complicated, and more about increasing the threat level in normal duties that can be intimidating for casual healers. If for example a lot of tank mitigation and self heals are taken away that responsibility is removed from the tank, and passed onto the healer. The way I see things though is that responsibility should be as close to equal as possible for all the roles in a party. The way things are now, healers have the least amount of responsibility in normal level duties. If you take away a tank's ability to sustain themselves, or a good portion of it anyway, this will even things out a lot more. This is how I feel it should be. Tanks already have a large amount of responsibility within duties, it is absolutely ridiculous that they are also capable of healing themselves and party members to boot.

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I agree for the most part, but I disagree that healers are the least important role for normal content. In 90% of normal content, DPS simply aren't necessary at all, and no healing means you're going to wipe constantly.

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Originally Posted by R041

Memes are all we have left. You all said it yourself - Giving suggestions here is basically just us talking into the void.

It's just funny to see people crack because of this specifically. As if this just happened overnight, when we know what's been happening since Stormblood.

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Memes are fine when used as a general means to be funny, and are not meant to be taken seriously. When they are used as a form of an argument/rebuttal, especially when someone puts a considerable amount of thought into their post, they take on a more condescending tone that shows a lack of respect for the person it is aimed at. Also, Stormblood isn't some holy grail of an expansion. This expansion had a ton of issues with gameplay, story, relic quests, encounter design, the whole nine yards bub.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Memes are fine when used as a general means to be funny, and are not meant to be taken seriously. When they are used as a form of an argument/rebuttal, especially when someone puts a considerable amount of thought into their post, they take on a more condescending tone that shows a lack of respect for the person it is aimed at. Also, Stormblood isn't some holy grail of an expansion. This expansion had a ton of issues with gameplay, story, relic quests, encounter design, the whole nine yards bub.

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StormBlood at release was my least favorite expansion. Only expansion I couldn't finish at the time. I was so immensely bored by level 63 in the story I literally unsubbed and didn't return for 2 years until Shadowbringers forced me to finish it. Ended up liking the 2nd half a lot more at least, but I'd rank the early StB experience to be one of the more awful story beats for me personally.

It's super cool that tanks and dps can get by without healers actually since the terminal failure point in my groups are almost always the healer these days.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Memes are fine when used as a general means to be funny, and are not meant to be taken seriously. When they are used as a form of an argument/rebuttal, especially when someone puts a considerable amount of thought into their post, they take on a more condescending tone that shows a lack of respect for the person it is aimed at. Also, Stormblood isn't some holy grail of an expansion. This expansion had a ton of issues with gameplay, story, relic quests, encounter design, the whole nine yards bub.

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Not sure how licking Yoshi's toes was used as a rebuttal. But alright. Atelier-Bagur likes my memes :(

And you misread what I said apparently. Since Stormblood. As in, Stormblood was the problem. Technically Heavensward set the nail up, and Stormblood hammered it in.

It sucks because Stormblood did as much damage as it did good. Just for completely different reasons. :/

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

That I can agree on. Tanks shouldn't be able to survive for entire fights without a healer present. That breaks the trinity completely, and without enrage timers, DPS become pointless as well. I think the problem is the threads I see keep saying a variety of things from fixing healers, making them do more dps, tanks are too strong, etc, when I agree, a simple change would be to reduce the tank self-healing by a good amount and see how that looks.



I agree for the most part, but I disagree that healers are the least important role for normal content. In 90% of normal content, DPS simply aren't necessary at all, and no healing means you're going to wipe constantly.

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DPS responsibility is pretty static in all content regardless of difficulty: Kill the enemy. They are by far and at large the most efficient at this so they carry the responsibility of optimizing their skillset for the situation they are in. Healers OTOH have a large portion of skills that go unused, particularly in NM 8-man content. On top of this, they have fewer offensive skills than both DPS and tanks, and 90% of those are situational, have long CDs, or are a resource spender.

Another way to look at this is healers have the fewest amount of skills that are exclusive to them: SMN and RDM can raise players. Many DPS jobs are capable of providing raid mitigation and offensive boosts. Tanks can heal themselves and group members, especially WAR. Jobs in both Tank and DPS roles can also provide HoTs. When you think about it all healers have that are exclusive is on demand cleanses and Rescue. Both of which tend to rely on player incompetence or unawareness to be useful.

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Originally Posted by R041

Not sure how licking Yoshi's toes was used as a rebuttal. But alright. Atelier-Bagur likes my memes :(

And you misread what I said apparently. Since Stormblood. As in, Stormblood was the problem. Technically Heavensward set the nail up, and Stormblood hammered it in.

It sucks because Stormblood did as much damage as it did good. Just for completely different reasons. :/

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Ah, gotcha. My bad. I'm just used to most posters using SB as a time when the game was at the peak of its gameplay when there were as many issues then as now. Just different. I should have read more carefully. The memes I refer to are the GIF inserts that posters around here use to deflect instead of using their own words to rebut another poster's arguments.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Ah, gotcha. My bad. I'm just used to most posters using SB as a time when the game was at the peak of its gameplay when there were as many issues then as now. Just different. I should have read more carefully. The memes I refer to are the GIF inserts that posters around here use to deflect instead of using their own words to rebut another poster's arguments.

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We good - I still love this one lol



https://i.imgur.com/owBjEBj.png

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Originally Posted by R041

We good - I still love this one lol



https://i.imgur.com/owBjEBj.png

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One of the best I've seen. I couldn't stop laughing the first time I seen it, especially considering the context it was used in. xD

While I understand that the self-sustainability is most likely for either solo instances, or to carry the dead weight of a garbage healer, or both, I do feel like it's pretty unbalanced in group content.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's nice when I have an 8-man group where 3 people are just so determined to eat the floor and my co-healer is a medica 2 mage, but I can see how it's annoying for more skilled groups.

Idk. I just seem to always get the bottom of the barrel players that can't tell their head from their butt. So when I do get players who are able to use their kit effectively, it's a nice breath of fresh air.

I do wish, though, that in general, people would only use their self-sustain as a back up. I get you want to use your full kit, but if your healer(s) is competent, then let them do their job. Let them worry about healing, you focus on tanking/dpsing. If the party is struggling and constantly dying and the healer is spending their whole time hardcasting rezzes (been there), then please use it.

It should be a back-up, not a go-to.