any plans to fix DF wait times?

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That wouldn't fix it, it would make the dungeons even more of a faceroll than than it is. Most of the "Easy" dungeons can even be done with only 3 players, though take significantly longer. Even under some circumstances you can finish a dungeon with just one caster who has a healing magic and one tank. These are really fringe scenarios.

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Except i did mention they'd have to perform trivial scaling to the mobs.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

Regardless of what we do, DPS counts is still going to be bigger than both healers or tanks.

Making a team of 4 DPS, 1 healer, 1 tank for a low level dungeon? It is STILL going to be about the same queue time, because what matters here isn't the DPS count, it's the tank and healer counts. Look at the bigger picture.

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Such nonsense, the more DPS you need in a team, the faster their queues are going to be, this always works. I can't think of any active game that has such ridiculous queues for DPS for leveling dungeons (30m+ is beyond ridiculous), guess why, they have more dps per party. Also no need to look any further than WoD or ST, once they replaced tank for DPS, DPS queues(which were shitty in CT) got way better than tank's queues, so please go ahead and tell me how it doesn't work with no example whatsoever and disregarding something basic math would prove right.

A few things to add, I havent done a single roulette aside from trial in months, and that's because I was getting lights. Why waste my time on roulette with such dysmal rewards? I cap soldier several times and poets every week just doing farm parties, doing stuff I choose and want to do. Why waste a possible 40 minutes as a tank in a duneon for any reason when I don't want to be there? If I want alexandrite, just do hunts, I havent finished morbid motivation for months. If I want soldiery, farm parties. Poetics, farm parties. With better rewards, maybe u would do my roulettes, but what we have now is a joke as compensation.

And no, reconfiguring party make-up isn't solving anything, and there's no way to really fix it. Especially now, with expansion and a larger, newer player base on mac, dps queues are going to get even worse. Putting a bandaid on it isn't making the "problem" disappear. It is the players fault that dps queues are so bad, because everyone wants to dps, not tank or heal.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

And no, reconfiguring party make-up isn't solving anything, and there's no way to really fix it. Especially now, with expansion and a larger, newer player base on mac, dps queues are going to get even worse. Putting a bandaid on it isn't making the "problem" disappear. It is the players fault that dps queues are so bad, because everyone wants to dps, not tank or heal.

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Yeah it so wouldn't work, it already worked as a fix for the Crystal Tower series of raids, but please go ahead and keep ignoring this.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Yeah it so wouldn't work, it already worked as a fix for the Crystal Tower series of raids, but please go ahead and keep ignoring this.

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Yes, let's also ignore the other part of that post. In the specific part that you quoted, I even mentioned the influx of new players we will be getting during heavensward, becausee it's going to happen. So while that little bandaid solution works with the current playerbase, once it gets larger, that problem Is going to get even worse. And the reason dps queues are better for CT raids is because there are so few of any other kind of drop that to get the weekly we have to run so many more times. It took 49 runs in a single week to even see a tank drop. So, dropping a tank didn't fix anything, it's that non-dps have to queue so much just to get anything, and tanks have it the worst because there is only one of them per alliance, while 2 healers.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

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Influx of players means there will be more players doing the older content so the change to setup is even more necessary since in the given influx the ratio should be expected to be equal or very similar to the current distribution.


Sigh.

First, everyone has the same chance of getting or not getting a drop therefore that point is irrelevant.

Second it's not a "bandaid" it's a solution in the likeness of other mmos party setup and it works there, no silly 30m+ queues outside of off hours, and IT HAS WORKED IN THIS GAME, you can twist it all you like, but you can't change facts.

There are other content people farm daily, roulettes for example, tanks get better queues nearly 100% of the times, the only exception to the queue times on active content is ST and WOD, because THE RATIO IS DIFFERENT. It was changed so dps would have better queues , and , would you look at that it worked. People also had to do CT over and over for drops and DPS queues were shit still, guess what fixed it in ST, but yeah i see from your join date you weren't here for that. And you can clearly see that the ratio matters so much because having 1 tank for 5 dps and 2 healers is also overkill and made the tank queues crap.

If you have 100 people in a given population, and the ratio is something like 50-60ish% dps, 12-17% tanks and 2xish% healers. Having a 1/2 ratio for tanks and dps creates therefore a huge bottleneck for dpses regardless of how many people are or not queuing regularly, due to there being so much of them dps will always be screwed. Adjusting the ratio to something that is more in the likeness of the general distribution would 100%, no doubt whatsoever improve queues for dps. You can clearly see this, just queue as dps and watch how fast the second dps slot fills and how slowly the other 2 do.

Also the issue is not that people are not doing low level content enough, it's just that because they do it less it shows more, if you queue as tank for low level at almost any time during the whole day you will get near insta queue which means there ARE people queuing, just not enough tanks to go into the dungeons with all those other people, which is where the party setup ratio adjustment comes in.

Now on the other hand i doubt very very much they'll implement this even if people were to speak in favor of it, given how much resistance the dev team has against changing existing systems. And there are other options that could also work, off the top of my head they could allow us to spiritbond high level gear by going into low level roulette for example, or adding achievements for queuing as adventurer in need, etc. They just need to do something.

I think if enemy HP in low level dungeons had been increased by like 1/4 or 1/3, and the party composition changed to be Tank/Healer/DPS x 3, DPS queues would have been a lot better without turning dungeons into a total faceroll. I suppose having a new tank and new healer class will help some, but even so players have a lot more DPS classes to level than tank/healer, and when you're trying to level DPS classes, that's what you have to queue as so just going as tank/healer isn't a solution from that standpoint. I mean why not redefine light parties this way, it's not like there is ever a DPS shortage. Or have it scale where if the DPS queues are significantly longer than the rest, you get a party of 5 with more enemy HP. But really, when is that not the case outside of like WoD/ST. I have an alt on Leviathan, where I'm levelling SCH/SMN and get healer queues, and levelling BLM but have learned not to bother queuing for a dungeon I actually want, and just get the roulette bonus on that class once a day and even then the wait sucks.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Except i did mention they'd have to perform trivial scaling to the mobs.



Such nonsense, the more DPS you need in a team, the faster their queues are going to be, this always works. I can't think of any active game that has such ridiculous queues for DPS for leveling dungeons (30m+ is beyond ridiculous), guess why, they have more dps per party. Also no need to look any further than WoD or ST, once they replaced tank for DPS, DPS queues(which were shitty in CT) got way better than tank's queues, so please go ahead and tell me how it doesn't work with no example whatsoever and disregarding something basic math would prove right.

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That's because every other game, everyone is a DPS, and tanking/healing is just an optional skillset tree that people don't bother with. This ignores the fact that those games are designed around either zerg'ing everything (field bosses, weekly world bosses), because you only get the best rewards for doing the most damage, or they are designed around power-creep where you can burn easier content as a solo in under a minute when it was designed to take an hour with a party of 8. In FFXIV you aren't penalized for switching classes/jobs, so it would make more sense for more DPS players to play a Tank if there are not enough Tanks instead of whining about having long DF queues.

Adding more DPS slots, and then making the content just have more HP is not "trivial scaling" it's just a cheap/lazy development bandaid solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The problem is that that most players pick DPS because it's easy, and when they can't DPS effectively as a Tank or Healer (since both of these jobs are harder than DPS) they avoid playing them. Who gets the blame when the party wipes? The Tank or the Healer. How often do I go into a dungeon that has a bard character in the party, and they never-ever use their Bard skills? Most of them. What's the most common DPS? BLM. Hence why the bots all pick it.

Where Square-Enix can adjust the game is by changing the queue system so you queue with all available classes/jobs when picking Roulette. But this requires adjustments where the gear is locked from being removed from Armory inventory while queued. Have a Tank class, but don't want to tank? Remove the Tank weapons from the Armory, so the queue doesn't see it available.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

Who even needs tomes anymore?

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Yeah there hasnt been a need to do any roulettes for months for me either hell i have only done those new HM dungeons twice just to see them, i main a tank but nowdays if i do some WoD or card farming i will que as a DPS just so i can play something else outside of raiding. And what comes to lowlvl roulette, well best intencive would be level-sync removal as nothing is more annoying than losing 70% of your abilities and that is one of the biggest reasons why i have never qued for lowlvl roulette unless i was leveling.

Hi, you are correct about the wait times being too long, but it is far worse than you make out. the way I see it, this game will not get a sub from me because of it.

being Australian, this game offers poor ping times to USA servers, but decent ping to Japan, so most Australians use the Japanese servers. Tonbery is the unofficial one, but is constantly restricted. any other server is mainly Japanese players, so new Australian players are greeted with the option of bad ping and never making it out of aoe rings with American early morning players, ie none, or foreign speaking servers with very few players.

I started a character on trial (paid, no sub). the storyline up until level 30 has taken me through 5 dungeons and the average wait time is 90 minutes. yes, that is correct, the longest was 2 hrs.

I can see where this is leading, and while I would have liked to go through the story to the end (or close enough, 50 or whatever), i wont be wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by digger

Rant irrelevant to the OP

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The DPS wait is pretty long but as pointed out DPS are dime a dozen. It was pretty bad all around when Gold Saucer came in. Q'd as healer for a lot of stuff with no population whatsoever for over an hour. Best thing to is to get your FC to help you with stuff. If they're all really far behind, help em catch up or get a new one.

Healing garuda normal isn't easy first time. My first time i struggled with it. If you got 3 people in there who don't know what's going on, it's a nightmare. Even one DPS flatlining all the time due to failure to understand mechanics will make it really tough. Not saying your healer wasn't crappy, but there might have been underlying stuff. Undergeared players, not being on top of rotations and mechanics, etc.

/not that OP cares since he rage quit the thread anyway lol