"Why does SE make content not obtainable by everyone?" Huh?!

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Originally Posted by Fira_Bug

That's not what I was implying at all (at least not me)
I was saying that yea it's gonna suck, but you can still manage it. I'm no hardcore player at all and I estimate 2 months max for our FC to acquire the necessary funds to have us a house to play in!

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Please look at the legacy server costs and do some math and tell me how even 5% of players 'can manage' the largest land plots? I dunno if you've seen the cheaper housing in videos, but it's no better than a tool shed for size.

Yoshi's argument was that you could make 15-20k per day 7 days per week and afford one as an FC after three months, but if you run the actual numbers (and subtract 40k per week for teleport/food/repair costs to make the math easier), 3 months would require having an FC with over 200 players all doing this 7 days a week. That's not a realistic expectation for most FC anyway, because most of the larger ones out there don't even have 200+ active players. And yes, I'm aware some people can make more than 100k/week, but not everyone enjoys crafting and gathering for profit.

It's understandable why people are upset about this, and this whole whining about people who are complaining thing is really getting old. Housing doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage in gameplay, so why make it impossible for anything other than the elite 1% of rich players out there? If space is an issue, they should have used a different system (a lot of games use an auction system) or something.

Well, from their standpoint a FC should consist of 300 + faceless members with whom you can't possibly interact personally all at the same time instead of being smaller groups of likeminded players. The math works out then and if this is the course the game is taking then I'm out, some other people probaly, too. Now I'm not whining about it, the designer chose to go a certain path, i don't like, I go play something else, nobody cares. That being said, I do doubt this model attracts a lot of people. Pay 200k Gil and have your guildmaster or a small group design an FC house that you have nothing to do with to be able to hang out with people who share the same guildtag as you and nothing else.


The repetitive nature of the game right now also has already turned a lot of people off and I don't see it changing any time soon. The playerbase here right now seems to be general FF fans, former FF 11 players and people who got sick of GW2/Rift/WoW and wanted to try something that looked really good and that reminded them of the vanilla mmo feeling. That passes though, quite quickly, most people will want to see comfort functions very soon, players these days still want to be challenged to accomplish things, but investing time is not considered a challenge - you are just investing time, every idiot can invest time, you're not special, you're not a better player, you don't know anything better, you just play more - that's not hardcore or anything, it's not entertaining and it will make them lose subs.

FF14 is not the first mmo to try this, but you can't bring out a vanilla WoW "clone" or make a game where farming tons of shit is the main content - look at any mmo that came out and triedto do the same thing or simply cater to more hardcore players, be it pve oriented or pvp oriented, they all failed.

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Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique

Because Japan is still stuck in the antiquated days of mmorpg design. And YoshiP seemed to look at vanilla WoW/EQ for inspiration, while ignoring most of the refinements made over the years.

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lol, what a joke. This is the most casual friendly MMO I've ever played - if they took inspiration from EQ and WoW in that department, then I must be in the twilight zone because this game is nothing like the vanilla WoW or EQ that I raided in.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

Look, I'm going to say this really slowly so all of you can understand.

Many Free Companies expected to be able to afford small housing. (not the largest)

Many Free Companies expected to be able to afford small housing within a few months of the release.

Many Free Companies will not be able to afford the smallest house at the steepest discount for a year or more. That is why we are upset.

We did not want a mansion, and we did not want it immediately upon downloading the patch and logging in to the game.

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Not from what I'm reading with all these threads. :) Honestly, I find it funny and I'm enjoying all the crying and moaning. Keep it coming. Seems like it's the end of the world for so many people because of a VIDEO GAME. Too funny. :)

Gathering gil is apparently more hardcore than killing Twintania or any hard boss now, I mean people are already farming Twintania but still. Sure you can scream "making money is easy" but once people start buying houses with that money, it's going to be flushed and gone. Markets were already crashing before, now everyone is rushing to sell and very few will be buying, you might be able to get something from new players but that won't last. Again, once that gil is gone it's going to take a while to regenerate even with the new ways to generate gil like dailies and even if a lot of new players and characters get to the point where buying gear is a thing with their storyline and quest earnings, because reaching endgame is fast and the game hands out a lot of free gear already, they will also be saving for a house now.

Meanwhile on the endgame side a lot of players already have a couple of full Darklight and even Myth and Allagan sets so they can even more easily spend the Philosophy on mats and craft the gear themselves if they need to fill in spots, and now that food lasts between deaths there's also no real reason to buy a bunch of stacks and most FCs already craft it themselves too, those were the two big gil investments. Of course that translates to more ways to save gil but also to even less people buying stuff because most will be still saving for their FC plot. But there's the upcoming furniture market you say? Well if an FC can afford a house with the gil they made from crafting then they can also craft the furniture themselves, which means no real market for furniture anyway and most people won't even buy their crafted furniture because they can't afford a house.

I really don't understand the selfishness and entitlement of hardcore fans who get defensive at any sign of disapproval. Some will say "if you don't like it leave" without realizing people do listen and leave, just look at the original XIV. Others will says "it's ok it'll get better with time" not realizing some people don't have the patience to wait especially if there's no sign of things getting better, or how much a game's image is damaged by not addressing the most important issues in time. Once again look at the original XIV, by the end it was in an almost a completely different state from the abysmal launch yet people didn't bother to re-review it or give it a chance because of the original backlash, it hurt it so much that a semi rebranding of 2.0 to "A Realm Reborn" was needed to set it apart from the original. Sure ARR has been getting a couple of awards, it got ok reviews and sold more than expected, but it also had a rocky launch that made some people weary once again because of the previous version's reputation and issues like the AoE lag and now this housing debacle are things that are really hurting its image. Finally others will say "good riddance to whoever left, the true fans will support it" and sure look at XI, it holds less than 100k subs and still manages to make a profit, but if you really love this company, wouldn't you like them to make even more profits? Profit from the people that could have stayed if the devs listened to their feedback. Sure some feedback requires more attention, log in errors should be addressed as fast as possible, while something like a typo like "The Howing Eye (Hard)" or leaving unstranslated japanese in Coil for months need less priority, but feedback is feedback never the less, as "negative" as a minority of people want to consider it.

I really don't understand this destructive defensive mentality of "everything is perfect please stop hating every critique is whine whine whine", I honestly don't.

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Originally Posted by Phe

Starlord,

your endurance and patience is amazing.
No, i would say it's somehow unique.

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I suppose I should take that as a compliment :P. If I know something is coming, I can be patient and wait for it.

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Originally Posted by Roris

Gathering gil is apparently more hardcore than killing Twintania or any hard boss now, I mean people are already farming Twintania but still.

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You pretty much captured my thoughts on this exactly.

To be perfectly clear, I am totally fine with pieces of furniture, or upgrades themselves taking years and years to complete. I would be perfectly fine if leveling took longer, and BiS gear was reserved for people who actually raided. I am not perfectly fine with something that is casual content completely being locked behind a gigantic payment wall. My FC has over 20 people, so that puts us at the middle sized house at least. So we're starting at about 24 million.

Now, also take into account that you can't really "upgrade" your home. We don't want to spend 24 million minimum (because that is a crap ton of money to us) on something we're going to get no gil out of if it turns out we need a bigger plot of land or something to access some feature. Hell, the smallest house is doable in months given how many people we have actively working towards it (like..5-6 maybe, assuming they donate all their earned funds), but considering you don't get any of that gil back upon wanting to upgrade, what's the point?

What they really should have done, and what I hope they may still take into consideration, is make the entry level price low enough to be achievable by everyone. This particular game feature, should be within reach of everyone. This isn't a raid boss, this isn't BiS gear, this isn't relic or artifact sets, this is freaking housing, probably the most casual content there is (unless you play FFXIV apparently). The gil sink from there is upgrading and furniture. Hell, they could make a full upgraded house still cost what it does, but when you hide the cost over several much smaller goals. It drives people to continue because there are goals they can meet and visibly see a reward for.

Also, I have not once seen anyone claim they should get all the best stuff for housing (including the best land) for free, or with no work. What I have seen is many people who either don't spend their time earning gil because that isn't fun to them, who lack market skills needed to attain gil in game economies as they are now, or who just simply do not have a lot of time to play. I am a perfect example of two of those things complain that the prices are too damn high for entry level homes (and on legacy servers, all homes, understandably). I have all the crafts maxed and yet I never go over 200k in gil. Never have. I got up there once and 150k went into the FC fund to save up for housing (which really just ended up inflating the prices they were going to later announce, would have been nice if there had been a warning for that). I don't charge people for melds, I craft things completely free of charge for any FC members, and I tend to give stuff away, even when made with my own mats. I like helping people out, and now I feel as if I literally -have- to stop doing that and start charging for everything, or make the game a monotonous job of running dailies everyday when I already do that for dungeons, just so I can even gain access to a casual feature.

Though i think prices are absurd its not even my biggest issue. My issue is everytime something has been qeustioned there reasoning has been they wanted both hardcore and casual players to be able to enjoy the same content. However this is now suddenly not the case? if a casul player has to choice between every min farming for months to even hope to enjoy same thing as someone that on near 24/7 this nullifies the whole arguement. I believe on proggression side things should be harder, but a simple fc house should not put a player in that position.

Its about Goals . You set a goal and try to reach that goal . Then challenge yourself to a higher goal . That is what SE is doing . You can get a large FC house . Join a larger FC and poof there is your house. You don't want to be in that large of a FC that is YOUR choice . Its like life really . Again set a goal , work really hard to reach that goal , set a new goal . But sadly in the world today people think they are entitled to things. And want things given to them with little to no effort .

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Originally Posted by DarkRain

But sadly in the world today people think they are entitled to things. And want things given to them with little to no effort .

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Said no one really, I'll gladly kill whatever hard bosses or beat as many dungeons or even gather and craft as many mats as needed to earn a house, anything but a gil sink and many do thankfully share that sentiment. Farming gil takes little to no effort either according to some people, so there you go.

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Originally Posted by DarkRain

Its like life really

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I hate to pull the "it's just a videogame" card, but it is. Besides if you want to put it in real life terms, that's $40 something for the 3 months most people have to keep subbed to gather the money to afford a house and since you also mentioned goals are good to have, most goals involve a medium and even a large house. Sure you get the other bulk of the content but a significant part won't be accessible until you've paid enough of a subscription, if you even have the time to do what in any other MMO would be considered side content, instead of focusing on the big battle content, because you know just like real life some people have jobs.