[dev1080] Ifrit battle

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Unless you're thrown into an instanced battle where Ifrit starts attacking, so you can't "Buff up and pull" or "Buff up and run in"
Raging Strike and Ferocity gets an archer killed... He's out of the instance... Thaum trying to get close enough to cast emulate.. BAM.. one shotted by a physical attack... Out of the instance...

Do we know that will be the way... no... but we don't know that it wont be like it either....
No matter how balanced or unbalanced a game is, I could build a boss that your "perfect Party" couldn't beat
An NM that counters ranged attacks
An NM with very low elemental resistance but SUPER HIGH mind and Mag.def.
A Boss resistant to DoTs
An NM that is healed by DoTs
A MOB that sustains very little damage until you incap a certain part... So starting off with multishot does nothing
A MOB with an ability called "Short Term Memory Loss" that resets everyone's hate to 0
I really could do this all day

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You don't design fights that exclude players. You simply don't allow mechanics that perpetually favor the same ones over and over. If you're honestly trying to argue that archers aren't going to have time to stack multishot at the start of fights...lol good luck with that. Desperate straws. Don't even know why you put yourself in that situation of arguing a hopeless position.

Maybe subconsciously as a lancer you think it's not going to happen to your job because you think it's great.

Well, we all think multishot and chainspell shadowsear is better than any of your abilities combined. That's just unfortunate reality.

That you would even say that a thaumaturge would be one-shotted if it tries to get near a NM proves you underestimate the jobs that will end up rendering you useless if allowed to. A thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo and survive its attacks indefinitely, alone. Can you?

Of course you can't.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

They are completely changing all the combat skill efficiency, possibly how the skills function, equipment stats, as well as adding jobs...and i'm sure the ifrit battle will end up taking advantage of that...so the assumptions about archers and thaumaturge ruling are shaky at best.

Lots of people told me as a Blue Mage I wouldn't be able to participate in alot of fights. Guess what, we found a way (Thief included).

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I killed Ouryu with a sneak attack trick attack Viper bite distortion. Doesn't mean any other thief on the server did. 80% of thieves switched to black mage, summoner, ranger, or tank because it was either that or don't go. Very few players have the resources to fight through imbalance. The vast majority simply take it and comply.

For some reason you all think SE can miraculously design these hard fights to have something new that can't be archer'd and thaumaturge'd, in light of a game that clearly is not the flagship MMO of creativity and innovation. You'll see just how inescapable the conclusion is.

The harder they make this fight, all it will do is enforce class castes. Until they fix thaumaturge and archer, adding Ifrit is a mistake. If it's too easy a fight, it's wasted. If it's too hard, archers and thaumaturges will finally have the excuse they've been looking for to take their seat at the endgame throne.

You can't develop a solution to game difficulty until you fix the problem of what players will do when faced with a difficult situation in this game.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You don't design fights that exclude players. You simply don't allow mechanics that perpetually favor the same ones over and over. If you're honestly trying to argue that archers aren't going to have time to stack multishot at the start of fights...lol good luck with that. Desperate straws. Don't even know why you put yourself in that situation of arguing a hopeless position.

Maybe subconsciously as a lancer you think it's not going to happen to your job because you think it's great.

Well, we all think multishot and chainspell shadowsear is better than any of your abilities combined. That's just unfortunate reality.

That you would even say that a thaumaturge would be one-shotted if it tries to get near a NM proves you underestimate the jobs that will end up rendering you useless if allowed to. A thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo and survive its attacks indefinitely, alone. Can you?

Of course you can't.

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I happen to be a thaum... and a Glad... And a lancer, and a pugilist... and a maruader, and in about a month, a capped archer and conj....
NMs are always made to not exclude certain classes, but to let certain classes shine...
A good way to do this would be to make NMs that needed incaps to stop their devastating party wiping moves or even to do damage at all. Since not every class has every incap, that would provide some much needed balance...
Also, I'd say all the classes will see some much needed change in the near future anyway

I wonder...if Ifrit has an hp regen just like in XI, i know i used XI but its all i have to a Ifrit fight right? Then we would have to dot him, but I was always for more than THM having dots. THM should be an enfeebler, but I thought archer should have tons of enfeebling arrows and what not like archer, and maybe even give dds moves that inflict enfeebles on the mobs. If they made Ifrit with a regen you would need someone with enfeebles and that would kind of favor thm, which even though I am a thm you should be able to get by without one. I mean i'm a mage i always want every party to have one, but not everyone has a friend who is one.

Im completely confused by this part; Isn't there an alpha video release of the entire scene etc...so its already been designed. And it looked damn good too.

i would like enviromental stuff on those fights where u need to be moving around to avoid death, i dont want a fight where you can stay put in one spot like the NM fights we have now.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

The Ifrit fight will probably be one of the first amazing boss battles (if only for how detailed the model is) and I hope the primal battles have their own exclusive battle BGM. If not, then hopefully we'll see the arrival of a unique boss battle theme for all enemies considered bosses.

Hopefully this battle will allow for a Full Party as the maximum allowed members.

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I think there's already a boss music for the summons, or "Primals", which Distant Worlds orchestrated in Tokyo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6_t09bafJk

The track version from the files in the game...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvsTA...F44B8&index=41

Since it's named Primal Judgement, I assume it's something to do with them. You do get to hear the "Primal" theme in one of the missions when you're being led to Ifrit's summoning area.

Ok Not long come back so playing catch up on many posts :p

It would be nice if we had to collect *fire things* to get access to fighting him, once you have enough you go to a place/camp/crystal and he spawns someone or your transported to a place.
(if you travel to him, you could also have several different mini-zones/routes to get to him)

I'd love to see environmental effect in the battle (walls falling. floors burning us) and also so its not just stand in this spot and do stuff, make it so we have to keep changing and make it semi random not a fixed patten during the encounter. :D

Id also prefer/love to see an ending to the fight, not us killing Ifrit in any way.
Theirs plenty of ways to end the fight without killing him(he could even flee from the party several times during the encounter).
And it makes it feel kinda hollow the next time you go back and do it again. :mad:

An finally non static, if this is going to be instanced/dungeon based, could we see semi random mob placement so its not always exactly the same group in the same place, just to add a little more immersion to it please.
(if you had him flee you could even have Ifrit take different routes and leave different mobs to slow us down)

In short repetitive simple content is dull! :)
Give us something worthy of doing again and again and the FF name..

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Originally Posted by Gun_Anam

I do hope the battle evolves in stages instead of just picking one place on the battlefield and staying there hitting him 'til he's dead. I'd like to see him make use of his agility with a lot of special highly animated attacks, e.g. ariel AoE meteor/fireball attacks, carving runes on the ground to get the hell away from before they explode, or a fiery 360 degree long range flamethrower attack with the only safe spot being directly underneath him. Anything like this that makes us move around for optimal positioning at all times during the battle would be nice.

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The same thing that i'm saying from the alpha.. We need dynamic, fast and hard fight that requires SKILLED ppl , Just like Wow, Rift and other mmo do.. N.b i'm not saying that it should be a clone of wow, but should be hard and dynamic as wow.

While difficulties of WoW can be argued both ways, I do agree that a Dynamic approach is something we need. FF has always pulled off making a battle feel amazing. It has to do with the set up of the fight as much as the fight itself. Include a set up cut-scene first. Then throw out some of those amazing skills that we've all been talking about and have seen in the past from SE, and we could have the best boss fights of any MMO.