The Letter is up

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Originally Posted by Shai

lol if that's how you play archer you must be one sorry archer. Here's how I play and you can use your imagination to fill in what abilities are where.

2 2 3 4 5 1 6 (maybe 7 if TP) 8 3 1 2 2 (4 or 5 if ready) 1 [repeat]

Look at all the 1s I have in there. All three of them. Play another job, dood.

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I would imagine your #2 is heavy shot

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what game design flaw? the fact that they are strong?

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No, I was simply stating that you were inserting a game design flaw in your version of "Ranged Auto Attack" by assuming buffs would be consumed by Auto Attacks. They already confirmed in past threads it is not intended to be designed that way.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i actually do, but thats just recently, i have been duoing with a friend archer since beta. archer actually hits basic attack less than it hits multi shot. multishot is always superior to doing your regular attack if you have any buff at all up. They playstyle of archer is currently a burst damage class, you very rarely use your basic attack, and when you do, you want it to count. It would do more harm than good to rebalance archer around AA, it would essentially be like if they made the game randomly cast a weak fire on conjurer, which would then prevent your fire damage from getting powerful. Its just not how the class is played.

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Yes but Multishot is in effect a buff that allows you to triple your standard attack, there is no reason as I suggested previously that they couldn't have made this a TP attack to do 3 times the damage of a standard attack.

You could then have time to use raging or ferocity (not both) and then use multishot and have AA work just like any other class.

Why is it fair that Archer has time to stack as many buffs as they like and then use a TP attack, when a DoW only has the chance to use one buff before doing the same?

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Originally Posted by Physic

i actually do, but thats just recently, i have been duoing with a friend archer since beta. archer actually hits basic attack less than it hits multi shot. multishot is always superior to doing your regular attack if you have any buff at all up. They playstyle of archer is currently a burst damage class, you very rarely use your basic attack, and when you do, you want it to count. It would do more harm than good to rebalance archer around AA, it would essentially be like if they made the game randomly cast a weak fire on conjurer, which would then prevent your fire damage from getting powerful. Its just not how the class is played.

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WTF, considering an ARC can one-shot things like no other class, devolving them would be the correct thing to do.

The fact that you have a 4x damage rotation for free isn't right.

rebalancing archers around AA, like ranger-fied them is still better in the end then letting them go TKO things.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Yes but Multishot is in effect a buff that allows you to triple your standard attack, there is no reason as I suggested previously that they couldn't have made this a TP attack to do 3 times the damage of a standard attack.

You could then have time to use raging or ferocity (not both) and then use multishot and have AA work just like any other class.

Why is it fair that Archer has time to stack as many buffs as they like and then use a TP attack, when a DoW only has the chance to use one buff before doing the same?

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Multi-shot being the sidewinder of FF14 sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I don't want to be one of those people. I like the game and I like playing it, but those 20 NMs wore out their welcome after about 2 weeks and it's been 4 weeks since then of grind grind grind grind. No news, nothing to tease me or tide me over, nothing. Literally nothing. Even the most fun thing you can think of in the world gets stale eventually if it stays the same too long, or you do it too much. I'm bored as hell and I'm actually one of the people who likes this game. It just can't stay this way much longer (in my opinion).

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Aye, there's the rub.

Right now, players are sitting around waiting on new content. We've all got jobs at r50. As soon as new content comes out, players are ready for it, and we devour it immediately.

Since release, SE has added 6 world NMs, 20 low level NMs, a couple dozen low level side quests, and they're about to add 2 dungeons. That's not bad for a year old MMO.

The problem is that that's essentially all the content in the game right now. By releasing an MMO with almost no content, SE started in a hole, and it's going to be difficult to fill that hole a year after release.

Yoshi-P has already said that it doesn't make sense to add a ton of content before fixing the core gameplay. That makes sense.

But the other problem is that it's now becoming clear how long it's going to take to fix this game. We're 10 months post-release, and we're probably a month away from the first changes to the battle system. Those changes will probably last through the summer. And then they'll be refined and further adjusted.

And that's just fixing one part of the core gameplay. They haven't even announced when they're going to address crafting, gathering, the economy, or social aspects of the game:

Market Wards/Auction House? Job System? Encampments? Materia? Companies (player run?)? Linkshell functionality? Changing map layout (Gridania)? Simplify crafting? Change synth recipes? Change gathering node locations? "Optimize" the items gathered? Inventory management? Saving job abilities? Mailboxes? Player housing? More Auto-Translate? Party search? The all-important jump button?

They haven't even announced a timeframe for addressing those and dozens of other issues. Given how long it takes to plan, code, test, implement, and adjust everything, we'll be lucky if these changes are completed in the next 12 months.

So it's a Catch 22. Yoshi-P needs to add more content to keep the current player base happy. But he also needs to fix the core gameplay. And he needs to do them both now.

What's the answer? I have no idea. But like you, I'm playing the game, and I'd sure like something to do to keep me playing. Leveling for the sake of leveling is an empty experience. Right now, the only thing to do with r50 jobs is to kill 6 NMs a few dozen times. Then you retire those jobs, hoping you'll eventually have something to do with them. We need something to keep us interested and invested and around.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Yes but Multishot is in effect a buff that allows you to triple your standard attack, there is no reason as I suggested previously that they couldn't have made this a TP attack to do 3 times the damage of a standard attack.

You could then have time to use raging or ferocity (not both) and then use multishot and have AA work just like any other class.

Why is it fair that Archer has time to stack as many buffs as they like and then use a TP attack, when a DoW only has the chance to use one buff before doing the same?

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Best case they make the buffs on a 10 sec or so timer so it wont get taken by a AA

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Originally Posted by Jinko

And that's why most Archers pull so much hate and then whine that the tank can't do his job etc.

Archers are generally the worst players in this game for team play.

You are making excuses for SE in a way, because when they redesigned the battle system they should have taken Archer into account in that it was overpowered and scaled its damage inline with the other DD classes so that it wouldn't create a situation where it could stack 4 buff skills and nail something to the wall.

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Im all for nerfing archer, but the play mechanic of putting multiple buffs on one skill for huge damage is not exclusive to archer, also the mechanics of multi shot are entertaining to play besides just damage, even if they nerf damage, its still an entertaining mechanic and a different playstyle, it should stay or have something similar.

AA/no stamina cost may be the balancer for archer, who knows.
I just dont see AA working with current archer mechanics, and generally disaprove of making it play the same style as other classes. It is slightly unfair that archer basically get the option to ignore AA but whatever.

This is my vision for Archers, and hopefully Ranger job if it comes:

Regarding the attack itself
1. Light Shot is removed and becomes Ranged Auto Attack.
2. Ranged Auto Attack consumes Ammo, as with stacking 999xarrows and Refill, ammo is not much of a concern.
3. Ranged Auto Attack speed is constant, TP gains constant per second, but Damage scale with weapons.
4. Ranged Auto Attack removes the need to spam normal attacks to build TP.
5. Multishot, Trifurcate are still in the game, but only operate with Heavy Shot or other basic ranged attack (not TP based)
6. Buffs such as Raging Strike, Ferocity, Hawk's Eye, etc. are not consumed by Ranged Auto Attack.


Regarding CC targets there are different options
1. Let players use current mechanics to turn away from mob, disengage or unselect target.
2. Code in that CC targets are unselected by all attacking players.
3. Code in that CC targets get animation time to give players cushion for option 1 above.


We end up with the same result as we have now, but without the need to spam Light/Heavy shot to build TP.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Yes but Multishot is in effect a buff that allows you to triple your standard attack, there is no reason as I suggested previously that they couldn't have made this a TP attack to do 3 times the damage of a standard attack.

You could then have time to use raging or ferocity (not both) and then use multishot and have AA work just like any other class.

Why is it fair that Archer has time to stack as many buffs as they like and then use a TP attack, when a DoW only has the chance to use one buff before doing the same?

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im pretty sure multishot will change, just due to stamina costs being gone, but its probably going to get a timer or an mp cost, since those are the only two resource management options now. Im just saying they built archer right, it is a DD that has a fundamentally different feeling and playstyle associated with it, more DoW need this. It shouldnt feel like your playing the same class fundamently on any class.
Im not just talking about different skills and different weaponskills, im talking about basic playstyle. FFXI every physical DD basically played the same way. In FFXIV right now, glad and archer actually feel like a different class, pug feels dif to me, though its closer to lnc and mrd. they need to continue on this path rather than unify all DD to one playstyle. The fact that archer will play in a different style than AA WS rinse repeat is a good thing, they can nerf archer, but dont build it into a class that is like every other physical DD but from range.

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Originally Posted by Takahime

This is my vision for Archers, and hopefully Ranger job if it comes:

1. Light Shot is removed and becomes Ranged Auto Attack.
2. Ranged Auto Attack consumes Ammo, as with stacking 999xarrows and Refill, ammo is not much of a concern.
3. Ranged Auto Attack speed is constant, TP gains constant per second, but Damage scale with weapons.
4. Ranged Auto Attack removes the need to spam normal attacks to build TP.
5. Multishot, Trifurcate are still in the game, but only operate with Heavy Shot or other basic ranged attack (not TP based)
6. Buffs such as Raging Strike, Ferocity, Hawk's Eye, etc. are not consumed by Ranged Auto Attack.

We end up with the same result as we have now, but without the need to spam Light/Heavy shot to build TP.

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whatevs im tired of arguin, i wont main archer anyway, most archers i know dont want AA but if they put it in and make it play like a boring DD thats on them