Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

I'm all for removing the gender lock on these two races. I fail to understand why people are coming to a support thread to speak against the idea, aside from looking for an argument, but no matter how you look at it, its simple: they took a hard stance against gender locking in 2.0 and now they are backpedaling. People wanted a beast race, people wanted viera, people don't like gender locking... seems to me the way to make everyone happy was to add both races, with both genders. Will it take resources away from other things? Sure. But it's simple supply and demand, and this thread proves the demand is there.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

If you insist on taking everything out of context then I guess you have a point. Besides glamours there is nothing you can't do in the game because of the gender of a race. If you'd quit playing a game with this much content just because a new race is female only then you don't really like the game to begin with.

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I agree its really sad to see people whine over that. Its painful that people are mad about fricken bunny boys over goddamn wasted money on content. Wanna get mad about the right stuff? Get mad about Eureka and how terrible that was. No way should any instance force me to grind like a chinese mmo. I didn't pay 14 bucks a month to play a mmo style back in 2006. Also we should of gotten Blitzball. Get mad about good content that people would want. I know over 5 discords full of hundreds of people alone that want to play Hrothgar just because of Pillar Men memes. Jojo makes the world go round.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

That sounds an awful lot like an anti gender norms agenda.

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Oh...dear.

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Originally Posted by NegiBozu203

This is an incredibly unfair point.

Some people just get burnt out of the game. I've been playing since beta of 1.0 and am finally feeling fatigued at the repeated content. Male Viera was the one possibility I was looking forward to this entire upcoming expansion, and now we have no idea if we're getting it.

I love this game, and I've spent many hours over the years into it, raiding and spending time with friends, and making amazing memories. Just because after 9 long years I was hoping for new content I was interested in to be implemented, and then that didn't happen making me significantly less interested in the upcoming expansion, doesn't mean the time I've already dedicated means any less.

The people claiming to quit aren't doing so just because they aren't getting male Viera. They're quitting for a number of other issues and this one just happened to be the one to break the dhamel's back.

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That's not at all what they're saying. Read their posts, they are flatout saying they're quitting because of no male viera. And if there were issues that bothered them so much why weren't they as vocal about those issues? Why would they pick an issue that has no effect on gameplay to be the one that breaks their back?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

So... If SE suddenly put a trial in the mogstation and people left the game in protest then they never really liked the game?

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If you see that as the same thing then there's nothing I could say to make you understand.

Content like dungeons and whatnot eventually get outdated, but races never get outdated. I can understand why races are really important to some people. There's always new glamours coming out, and occasionally a new hairstyle, too, so customizing your character doesn't get old. That's why I think they should add the missing genders. You can get a lot of mileage out of that, and a lot of happy players.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Content like dungeons and whatnot eventually get outdated, but races never get outdated. I can understand why races are really important to some people. There's always new glamours coming out, and occasionally a new hairstyle, too, so customizing your character doesn't get old. That's why I think they should add the missing genders. You can get a lot of mileage out of that, and a lot of happy players.

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Not to mention, one of the main drivers behind actually doing dungeons new/old is getting glamour gear for your character. Aesthetics are an important factor to many people.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

That's not at all what they're saying. Read their posts, they are flatout saying they're quitting because of no male viera. And if there were issues that bothered them so much why weren't they as vocal about those issues? Why would they pick an issue that has no effect on gameplay to be the one that breaks their back?

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They have a right to unsub if they so choose, you can't really do anything about it and you're not at liberty to know what sort of grievances they may have had beforehand. They don't have to validate their reasons for doing so or provide evidence that they were "ever a real fan" of course you're entitled to think that and allowed to express that I just struggle to understand what point you're trying to make besides "people who want this are whiners and instead of adding something to the game the dev team would be caving by agreeing to this." which of course is my completely subjective take on a completely subjective opinion of yours.

I don't see what your point is of coming into this thread besides planting your feet and saying "you're all whiners and I hope you never get what you want and if you unsub you didn't really enjoy the game anyway." which of course, you're free to state, you're free to express that. It just seems a little reactionary to me and a thing of attrition, you have no intention of changing your stance and some people here have no intention of changing their stances either. I understand wanting your support for the development teams choice of genderlocking and discontent/criticism of those asking for male viera/female hrothgar to be heard, but there's already a thread(several actually) that are already up and open to that kind of discussion.

I mean, I'm not trying to suggest spending resources on dungeons is a waste, but using the logic behind why we shouldn't get male viera, it's like... what's a better use of resources? On content that'll get thrown to the wayside after a while, or content that never gets outdated?

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

That's not at all what they're saying. Read their posts, they are flatout saying they're quitting because of no male viera. And if there were issues that bothered them so much why weren't they as vocal about those issues? Why would they pick an issue that has no effect on gameplay to be the one that breaks their back?

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Implying people HAVEN'T been voicing their opinions about other issues.

Difference is those are gameplay issues which are significantly more difficult to manage. This is a cosmetic issue that takes time, yes, but isn't hard.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

That sounds an awful lot like an anti gender norms agenda. And I'd laugh my ass off if SE suddenly became WoW bad. Because people think they're upset now, but just imagine how bad things could be by looking at WoW. You want to see developers who have lost touch, ignore and actually insult their fan base? Look at WoW. Comparing this situation to the dumpster fire that WoW has become is ridiculous. By the way, WoW's demise can be directly traced back to when they began giving in to the very vocal minority.

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Wow's demise came from listening to a small minority of HARDCORE raiders who insisted that they were the primary audience that should be catered to if I recall, this is almost the exact polar opposite situation really. This is a very very casual oriented dilemma that in no way could feasibly effect the way current or future content is inherently planned and developed, it is literally apples to oranges.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Wow's demise came from listening to a small minority of HARDCORE raiders who insisted that they were the primary audience that should be catered to if I recall, this is almost the exact polar opposite situation really. This is a very very casual oriented dilemma that in no way could feasibly effect the way current or future content is inherently planned and developed, it is literally apples to oranges.

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You obviously haven't paid much attention to the WoW situation. The majority of hardcore raid guilds have disbanded. No, Blizzard decided to listen to the vocal minority of players who believed they should get everything the raiders get, without doing the raid content. So now you can AFK through a warfront and come out with raid level gear, or even better. All content outside of raiding or dungeons is completely soulless and offers no form of challenge.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

If you insist on taking everything out of context then I guess you have a point. Besides glamours there is nothing you can't do in the game because of the gender of a race. If you'd quit playing a game with this much content just because a new race is female only then you don't really like the game to begin with.

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Ad Hominem attacks are hardly worth noting.

A person can enjoy the game for a myriad of different reasons, your way is not sacred. Your opinion is extremely valid, just as everyone else's here. But you can do so without belittling a person's passion for the game they decide to give money to and spend time playing and posting on forums about. But sure, keep pretending how the measure of a game community's health is by your metric. For the same reasons people are complaining the game's lore and image would be ruined if these changes were made and that would hamper their enjoyment. So too can the same argument be made that a half-baked version of something being added can sour other people's enjoyment of a game.

Keep it civil man, at the end of the day, we're all here posting because we love this game. The random seedy troll here and there won't change that.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

You obviously haven't paid much attention to the WoW situation. The majority of hardcore raid guilds have disbanded. No, Blizzard decided to listen to the vocal minority of players who believed they should get everything the raiders get, without doing the raid content. So now you can AFK through a warfront and come out with raid level gear, or even better. All content outside of raiding or dungeons is completely soulless and offers no form of challenge.

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The game(or content restrictions and the like) becoming "easier" was an inherent effect of trying to streamline the process and make it easier for high end raiders to gear and do the latest cutting edge content. Which they proceeded to clear and then abandon the game because there's just no satisfying those types of people besides maybe level 1 bare handed demon souls runs. What they wanted is the nostalgia of the old challenge of being a paragon hardcore raider, nothing new could satisfy them, not in an MMO anyway. So you were left with people with no interest in hardcore raiding with no end game that was feasibly satisfying to them so they too fell off.

What makes XIV special is it's side content offers an avenue that isn't just "Gear up for savage > use savage gear on ultimate's" that and it has a story that evokes classic final fantasy games and puts people into the "FANTASY" of being a final fantasy hero. It has something for everyone and although all of it is not done spectacularly it is there at the very least and is serviceable. I mean look at PVP, mostly dead, but still gets support, why? because it has fans and people who are REALLY into it, no matter how niche it is. Would you say those people are killing possible future content by having content developed for them?

Also again those are two completely opposite issues, WoW's change inherently effected the content pipeline of the game, comparing eureka to that would be better because eureka was directly made to sate people who desired more open world content reminiscent of XI, something which took dungeons away from the expansion.

Yoshi said that not all the headgear would work on Viera or Hrothgar because the heads were going to be so customizable. Would you all accept not being able to see foot wear on your feet if we could get the beast like feet the Ronso had in FFX?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Yoshi said that not all the headgear would work on Viera or Hrothgar because the heads were going to be so customizable. Would you all accept not being able to see foot wear on your feet if we could get the beast like feet the Ronso had in FFX?

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I mean. I'm sure uuh some people would be fine with a permanently open toe'd race.

I support Playable male Viera! And female Hrothgar!

Lets keep this going! Don't feed the trolls! Don't let the nay sayers rile you up! Stay loud! Stay Persistent!

we can make SE listen!

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

The game(or content restrictions and the like) becoming "easier" was an inherent effect of trying to streamline the process and make it easier for high end raiders to gear and do the latest cutting edge content. Which they proceeded to clear and then abandon the game because there's just no satisfying those types of people besides maybe level 1 bare handed demon souls runs. What they wanted is the nostalgia of the old challenge of being a paragon hardcore raider, nothing new could satisfy them, not in an MMO anyway. So you were left with people with no interest in hardcore raiding with no end game that was feasibly satisfying to them so they too fell off.

What makes XIV special is it's side content offers an avenue that isn't just "Gear up for savage > use savage gear on ultimate's" that and it has a story that evokes classic final fantasy games and puts people into the "FANTASY" of being a final fantasy hero. It has something for everyone and although all of it is not done spectacularly it is there at the very least and is serviceable. I mean look at PVP, mostly dead, but still gets support, why? because it has fans and people who are REALLY into it, no matter how niche it is. Would you say those people are killing possible future content by having content developed for them?

Also again those are two completely opposite issues, WoW's change inherently effected the content pipeline of the game, comparing eureka to that would be better because eureka was directly made to sate people who desired more open world content reminiscent of XI, something which took dungeons away from the expansion.

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Hardcore raiders don't want or need quicker access to gear. If they were the problem then they'd be loving WoW at the moment. The raiding and dungeons are the only thing in the game has going for it right now. I agree 100% that FFXIV is great because it's not just gear up for raids. But the best gear is reserved for raiders and I have no problem with that. I've never been a hardcore raider and have never had the best of the best gear in a MMO. And what has killed WoW is that gear is handed out like candy on Halloween. Anyone who desires even the slightest bit of challenge will get bored really fast. That and the fact that their non raid content is all about as boring as watching paint dry.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

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You're misconstruing what I'm saying, raiding was made easier so raiders could focus on raiding at the highest level, this also served the double function as an attempt to get casual or mid-core raiders into hardcore raiding. Raiding content was the only content being developed because WoW was lead to believe by hardcore raiders that raiding was the heart of the game, when it was not. There was a literal forced campaign to focus more on raiding because raiders weren't happy with the raiding climate in the game, not because of casuals begging to be allowed into the raiding scene.

To loop back around to my major point, I disagree with the notion that the dev team listening to feedback on genderlocks will be the beginning of the end on XIV's pipeline. It's just not that deep.

As much as I, both as a former Mythic (and heroic circa WotLK/Cata) raider and consumer of WoW lore, loves to whinge about WoW and the garbage that is BfA, this thread isn't the place to get into deep discussions on why the raiding community is in decline, why the community is getting splintered (over various aspects of gameplay or story), or the exact effect of gear pathing (whether from WF, WQs, titanforging and the like), and is getting derailed. So back to topic:

Still supporting male bunbuns!

+1 for male Viera (and female Ronso)

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

You obviously haven't paid much attention to the WoW situation. The majority of hardcore raid guilds have disbanded. No, Blizzard decided to listen to the vocal minority of players who believed they should get everything the raiders get, without doing the raid content. So now you can AFK through a warfront and come out with raid level gear, or even better. All content outside of raiding or dungeons is completely soulless and offers no form of challenge.

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And you've very clearly have not paid attention to this thread and for the most part butted in here pointing your fingers at us with your bad attitude with the soul goal to whack a hornets nest. This thread, for the majority has been super positive with mainly discussing what we envision and hope for. There has been very little of people coming in self righteous and demanding male viera in an exorbitant rude manor... accept ppl like you who start in who say they hope they delete already made content to show us 'baddies' that we should never voice our opinion or show support for an idea. You come in here and accuse US of being the toxic vocal minority when in all honest we most certainly are not. And for Yoshi P's sake its glamor. Not game changing mechanics that you are soap boxing over like its the end of times. Go actually cry when ffxiv does go down like wow. Right now we are in its prime and the devs like listening to all groups of ppl. Just becuase they may or may not focus on us and give us a glamor race does not mean we bloom into wow over night and implode.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Content like dungeons and whatnot eventually get outdated, but races never get outdated. I can understand why races are really important to some people. There's always new glamours coming out, and occasionally a new hairstyle, too, so customizing your character doesn't get old. That's why I think they should add the missing genders. You can get a lot of mileage out of that, and a lot of happy players.

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This is extremely true. Expressing yourself through customization is a big part of MMOs for a lot of people, and new customization options are appreciated, used and last until the day the game goes down. People who constantly understate the value of this stuff should really learn to appreciate the value of expression and customization in a game with so many social aspects.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

You come in here and accuse US of being the toxic vocal minority when in all honest we most certainly are not.

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About this I wrote a big message even with math in another thread but will say once more shortly.

1. EN Forum is not American playerbase. It's English speaking playerbase. Absolutely different things.
2. EN Forum is biggest and 5 times bigger than JP. DE and FR sections are nearly dead in comparison with EN and JP.

So calling EN community a "vocal minority" is just... lying, really.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

About this I wrote a big message even with math in another thread but will say once more shortly.

1. EN Forum is not American playerbase. It's English speaking playerbase. Absolutely different things.
2. EN Forum is biggest and 5 times bigger than JP. DE and FR sections are nearly dead in comparison with EN and JP.

So calling EN community a "vocal minority" is just... lying, really.

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I agree but I just want to point out that I put 'us' in caps is the word us not as in America. Sorry if that was confusing. Not that that changes anything. A lot of people do treat na as if its America only when that is hardly the case. I am very put off that people are trying to shake this off as its just a small amount of players that want something. I cannot remember the last time our threads were this dedicated on a topic. Probably not since the launch of sb and when a few classes got mucked up.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

And honestly, the community should maybe take a step back in the future about unconfirmed assumtions. Male Viera was never being hinted at!

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Yet since SE did away with genderlocks and we never got even one glimpse of the Hrothgar in the story line it was perfectly fine to believe that the Viera would be like any other race, which means two genders. And honestly they would probably be less work than a beastly race. if we just got one race without the hint of the other then some people might be disappointed that we got that race and not what they wanted but we would not be having such a huge backlash like we are having now. Most people would probably be happy and some of us that wanted something else could still clutch onto his sentence that its probably the last race, thus theoretically more could come.

Now we have a huge side of the playerbase that did not get their Viera male and another side that got no female beast race..while there are those that might even be disappointed in the lower quality look of the male Hrothgar...

SE writes the lore. If they never wanted a male Viera they could have simply given us the lore that this version of the Viera only exists as females and reproduce different. Not tell us that males exist but then not giving them to us.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

For ppl reading forum and reddit there was a big leak basically confirming a lion-race.
Many ppl pointed that out when the discussion after paris fanfest startet and where met with deaf ears.

Don´t get me wrong, im not against male-viera. I acutally expect them next expansion or the on after.

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The only thing that has hinted at Hrothgar was the french leak. That still did not mean that no male Vieras would be coming. Heck since FF14 is a very successful MMO and money maker for SE I hoped that this would mean that we will get two full races. And again, people asked Yoshida after the fanfest about the male Viera and yet instead of telling the truth they hinted at more that would come at the fanfest...making it sound like they will just reveal them there..he could have stopped any hype there instead he chose to let it go on.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

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You are allowed having an opinion and I'm sure the Dev team will also consider your and people who share your opinion.

But I can also be against any ultimate, savage, eureka or blue mage content if it doesnt appeal me. All those things are defined to appease a part of a community and if, in your words, people like me like to have more variety on races and glams, then I also am allowed to ask for more "ultimate" glam endgame content. I also pay a sub and I never complained that some content is just for people who like raiding or grinding.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

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Went to sleep shortly after posting that, yes SE has decided to stagger content to try and keep people subbed for longer whether it worked only they know, i just made that list to point out that SB gave more content than HW fact, nothing in SB was 100% recycled there was always new resources going into everything. it is just up to individuals if it was worth what was lost.

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Originally Posted by niteypants

1500 likes now, keep up the support for male Viera!

Square needs to respond with a statement. It's been a week, which is more than enough time to relay a decision.

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They are probably going to take a bit more time looking at feedback (got to be translated as well) so i am willing to wait longer for a response, the longest i'm willing to wait though is until 5.1 by this time if they haven't made a decision it ain't happening in 6.0 and i would like to know why at that stage.

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Originally Posted by Empress

I agree its really sad to see people whine over that. Its painful that people are mad about fricken bunny boys over goddamn wasted money on content. Wanna get mad about the right stuff? Get mad about Eureka and how terrible that was. No way should any instance force me to grind like a chinese mmo. I didn't pay 14 bucks a month to play a mmo style back in 2006. Also we should of gotten Blitzball. Get mad about good content that people would want. I know over 5 discords full of hundreds of people alone that want to play Hrothgar just because of Pillar Men memes. Jojo makes the world go round.

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So your upset that people are being upset over something you ain't upset about rather than the things you think people should be upset about, that is subjective to you i'm afraid. People can voice their opinions on anything they want it just happens this is the topic that has seen the most traction by the community. So calm down the devs do not have to cater to anything the community asks it does not harm you that people are voicing concerns on the decision to gender lock and are trying to support unlocking them, ultimately it is up to the devs, we can be grouchy if they decide not to do them but it isn't the end of ffxiv and people would eventually move on and tbh i completely forgot blitzball was even on the table XD I like Pyros/Hydatos in Eureka and never watched JoJo, also i see Hrothgar as a beastly race that doesn't interest me atm but i would not go around saying it was wasted development time nor would i say asking for females is a waste.

Side note Why is it that male Viera gets this kinda flack and not female Hrothgar/Ronso? both threads are just asking for the other side of their respective coins but its the male Viera thread that gets the constant pushback against it

Just here to voice that I'd rather the devs poured their efforts into something besides male viera.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Just here to voice that I'd rather the devs poured their efforts into something besides male viera.

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And what content would that be?
Additional question: Are you saying this, aware that the hypothetical content in question might not cater to you, or might cater to you but disappoint you?
Additional question: would you unsub or otherwise draw back your support (letting sub drop between patches, withholding mogshop purchases) if they ended up releasing male Viera and/or female Hroths?

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

And what content would that be?
Additional question: Are you saying this, aware that the hypothetical content in question might not cater to you, or might cater to you but disappoint you?
Additional question: would you unsub or otherwise draw back your support (letting sub drop between patches, withholding mogshop purchases) if they ended up releasing male Viera and/or female Hroths?

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I have quite a few in mind but I don't really feel like listing them at the moment.

Sure, it might disappoint me, but male viera is certain to.

I'll unsub if I'm bored or otherwise unsatisfied with the game.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i severely doubt Male viera or female hrothgar would take away development from teams that don't even work on characters or gear

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Well, I will say I had characters and gear in mind.

i severely doubt Male viera or female hrothgar would take away development from teams that don't even work on characters or gear

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

I have quite a few in mind but I don't really feel like listing them at the moment.

Sure, it might disappoint me, but male viera is certain to.

I'll unsub if I'm bored or otherwise unsatisfied with the game.



Well, I will say I had characters and gear in mind.

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Then this is nothing but a toxic post trying to stir the drama pot. You say resources could be used elsewhere other than male viera, but refuse to list where it could be best used? Unless you actually have something constructive to add, why even bother to post?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Yoshi said that not all the headgear would work on Viera or Hrothgar because the heads were going to be so customizable. Would you all accept not being able to see foot wear on your feet if we could get the beast like feet the Ronso had in FFX?

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I really would be happy with that. For a beast like race i think its fits, and they could still do some glam stuff from time to time. Would even be funny to have some Boots hanging from the belt for some :D Done well, i think this would be rather fun for the people into that.
They could even open it up to the other races if they needed too. Worgan and charr are cool, and i wish i was able to get something like that here in FF14.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

That's a way to look at it, but a lot of the stuff we "gained" all take resources from the things we lost.

So we lost 3 dungeons, the maps and resources that would have gone into that went into the 3 instanced areas.

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Whether they take resources from one place and put them somewhere else you are not loosing content. You may not be getting the content you specifically want but content you are getting nonetheless.

Haha, a I see a lot of people talking about content vs new race, I'll give you a hard to swallow pill, SE took a route where ilvl and gear develop so fast that content get old soon, to the point most people never hit max ilvl even with their mains, because the next patch will make that gear useless, yet you have a lot peopole running content like eureka and playing crafters to get new glamour, and buy and decor houses, be it their target or an accident, SE created this "glamour is the true end game" situation, and guess what, character customization, and that includes races, is the epitome glamour.

Besides, there's no need for this argument, if SE were to develop the missing genders, they would just ask for a bigger share of the game's revenue as budget, they are not that stupid, they will not take the resources from other content or teams, or did you feel like SB content was lacking compared to HW while they were making the viera and hrothgar? becuse, like it or not, Eureka alone must have taken more modeling, programming and testing work than all HW sidecontent.

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Originally Posted by Fjolnir-Drakenbane

Then this is nothing but a toxic post trying to stir the drama pot. You say resources could be used elsewhere other than male viera, but refuse to list where it could be best used? Unless you actually have something constructive to add, why even bother to post?

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Toxic? I'm just saying I would rather have the their time put elsewhere. I didn't bother mentioning where because I don't wanna get sidetracked into some argument about what I'd like more than viera (which is what people are so quick to jump to); it's not important to my main statement. I'm just giving my feedback.

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Originally Posted by Mutemutt

Toxic? I'm just saying I would rather have the their time put elsewhere. I didn't bother mentioning where because I don't wanna get sidetracked into some argument about what I'd like more than viera (which is what people are so quick to jump to); it's not important to my main statement. I'm just giving my feedback.

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I think it was the fact you came into a support heavy thread with an opposing view gave no ideas why you don't support and what you prefer would be allocated to so you posts sorta gave across in 2 ways
1. I don't want you to have what you are asking for because i want those resources allocated for what i want instead it sounds petty
2. Pointless they really added nothing can't discuss much with you about why you think that can't gain any supporters for what you want just sorta there

I just take your post in this thread as yea ok moving on at this point and no i don't think you were being toxic just meh

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Originally Posted by Fjolnir-Drakenbane

Then this is nothing but a toxic post trying to stir the drama pot. You say resources could be used elsewhere other than male viera, but refuse to list where it could be best used?

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The Dad of Light movie. Clearly.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I think it was the fact you came into a support heavy thread with an opposing view gave no ideas why you don't support and what you prefer would be allocated to so you posts sorta gave across in 2 ways
1. I don't want you to have what you are asking for because i want those resources allocated for what i want instead it sounds petty
2. Pointless they really added nothing can't discuss much with you about why you think that can't gain any supporters for what you want just sorta there

I just take your post in this thread as yea ok moving on at this point and no i don't think you were being toxic just meh

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I think just having an opposing view is enough to draw negative attention. It really wouldn't have changed anything if I was more detailed in what I wanted specifically.
1. I'm just being realistic. Resources are finite and I'd rather have them put elsewhere. It's nothing personal, but if some people see it as petty, I guess it can't be helped.
2. Wasn't really meant to add much to the discussion (in fact I kinda wanted to avoid most of it). I just felt I had to pipe up and let SE know that not everyone wants male viera before they get the wrong impression that "everyone" wants this.

Why this thread? Honestly, it felt the most appropriate at the time. I didn't want to create another thread like this one but focused on being against male Viera because that just feels really troll.