You mean all those FF games where SAM was classified as a heavy damage DPS? Yes I know. That also includes XI since that was my main for the entire 10 years I played it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
Those defensive abilities were there for the survivability of the SAM whenever they would pull hate from the tank b/c of the high spike damage from self skill chaining. They were never expected to or required to tank anything in XI. You brought the deeps and that was it.
I will give you this though, with a -physical damage down set, which I had one, you could tank a good number of end game stuff. But it wasn't a requirement or were you expected to. You were expected to pump out high numbers with all the TP regen abilities and being able to solo a lvl 3 skill chain like light and dark.
Same argument with DRK. This is the first FF where it broke tradition and made it into a tank class. DRK has always been a heavy DPS class. But Yoshida has shown he isn't afraid to break those traditions. Me personally, I apologize but I expect the jobs to play as they've always been and not break those traditions. DRK in my opinion should've been a DPS in Heavensward. The same opinion I'm giving with SAM now. If we need more Tanks then there's plenty of actual tanks roles they haven't tapped into in past FF games.
As for my arguments being weak, sorry my opinions don't catter to yours, but mine at least have history while yours is just blind fanboyism wanting it to be a class b/c that's what you want it to be and not what it's traditionally been. That's about as weak as you can get sorry to tell you.
@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!
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12-27-2016, 05:14 AMKiyashi
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12-27-2016, 06:33 AMshao32
what are you talking? you cant classify old jobs how come from turn based games in to roles like that, DRK never was a "heavy DPS class" i even replayed ffiv again a few weeks ago and everyone dealt more damage that cecil, and in ffiii its a great job when you get it but when you get the next crystal become pretty useless.
DRK are traditional heavy armored fighters how sacrifice a resourse to dealt a huge hit and hey thats what the DRK do here, sacrifice a resourse, mp in this case) to use one the most powerful skills in term of potency of the game, ffxi break more DRK tradition adding scithes with them.
when ppl stop comparing the old ff game battle system with this one? jobs are not mean being dps bcs dps is not a thing in a turn based game, in any case is DPT (damage per turn) whit that are all. -
12-27-2016, 06:35 AMIromiPretty sure Kiyashi was talking about FFXI which is a MMORPG, not turn based at all lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by shao32
Also he is right, DRK was never a tank before until FFXIV. -
12-27-2016, 06:38 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHAllow me to redirect you to Final Fantasy Tactics. DRK was a high hp tank that recovered itself with Night Blade and took hits like a steel wall. There's precedent for DRK tank, even if you want to stick your fingers in your ears.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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12-27-2016, 06:44 AMshao32he is talking in ff games in general, and no job was tank or healer or dps until FFXI comes, and if we go in to that field even if we know we cant classify the jobs in a old ff game like much you have first line figthers and second line figthers in some ff, but most are in the same file.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
tank or dps its just dont change the job identity bcs the role means what are they focus in a MMO battle, DRK here have they traditional desing. -
12-27-2016, 06:48 AMIromiFinal Fantasy Tactics is my favorite FF of all time. DRK was not a tank in FFT...that game's battle system did not require tanks...just..what?? You could put people in the front to hope mobs go after them..but what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Knight_(Tactics)
"Sacrifice own HP to deal damage to others, with the nearest units suffering the most damage." Sounds like a fantastic tank, yo..sacrifice your own HP so you can tank for us please. Oh and somehow manage to stay alive lol. I'm dying haha
"Dark Knight is a job in Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions. It has abilities that focus on delivering damage to opponents using the darkness to drain their HP or MP, and also can attack sacrificing their own HP to inflict more damage. It costs 6,900 JP to master. "
I don't know..uhh, I really would not want this as my tank. Don't think we would last too long w.
Hmm no..pretty sure the jist of his post is about SAM from FFXI lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by shao32
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12-27-2016, 06:53 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHIn all honesty if you ever died as a dark Knight, you had a really bad loadout. >w> DRK was the only job that could avoid the majority of attacks with minimal effort, due to the fact blocks/parries negated all damage.. The only other job that could mitigate damage so well was Knight and Ninja with the proper accessory and reaction ability, but DRK was in every way a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
Course, it helped DRK had 200+ more Max HP than Knight did. -
12-27-2016, 07:02 AMShippuu[Citation Needed]Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiyashi
But hey, just like all those games where DRK was a dps right?
https://s.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/mid...k-epl-1025.jpg
Except they weren't really, considering other aspects of it's design, including +enmity on it's AF armor, which was a trait only featured on WAR and PLD AF, tanking roles. (Later some was added to THF's AF2, yet they actively have abilities utilizing enmity manipulation). SAM had nothing to actually shed hate like other DPS jobs (i.e. DRG), and the risk/reward mechanic was DRK's things. SAM in FFXI was absolutely intended to be a tank, but due to the team's poor ability to actually make it work delegated it to it's DPS role and they rolled with that. Just because they failed to make it work as a tank as they intended doesn't mean it still didn't have the trappings for it.Quote:
Those defensive abilities were there for the survivability of the SAM whenever they would pull hate from the tank b/c of the high spike damage from self skill chaining. They were never expected to or required to tank anything in XI. You brought the deeps and that was it.
It's almost like every job is a DPS in past Final Fantasy games...almost as if there wasn't such a thing as an MMO trinity in those games. How weird is that? DRK still has every single other trapping required to fit FFXIV's vision of what a tank is. If you had your way, every job would be a DPS, because reality check, there aren't at all that many "actual tanks" to pick from in past FF games, especially none of which have anywhere close to the popularity and appeal that Samurai has, which is something you want in all of your tank jobs.Quote:
Same argument with DRK. This is the first FF where it broke tradition and made it into a tank class. DRK has always been a heavy DPS class. But Yoshida has shown he isn't afraid to break those traditions. Me personally, I apologize but I expect the jobs to play as they've always been and not break those traditions. DRK in my opinion should've been a DPS in Heavensward. The same opinion I'm giving with SAM now. If we need more Tanks then there's plenty of actual tanks roles they haven't tapped into in past FF games.
Considering your "history" involves talking about just one game (FFXI) and you simply ignoring/writing off all the other evidence that contradicts it...If anyone is being blind here it's you.Quote:
As for my arguments being weak, sorry my opinions don't catter to yours, but mine at least have history while yours is just blind fanboyism wanting it to be a class b/c that's what you want it to be and not what it's traditionally been. That's about as weak as you can get sorry to tell you.
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12-27-2016, 07:08 AMEmpressI mean to be fair, they had insane damage previous games the less health they had but um if they had to have like 100 or so hp in dungeons with aoes that hit everyone that are unavoidable because thats how they can maximize dps it would just be annoying lol. They have potential to be high damage dps but because of the whole sacrifice hp mechanic couldn't work with current mechanics it would just drop you on the floor faster than a Dragoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippuu
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12-27-2016, 07:12 AMIromiYeah that is true, lol I remember doing that haha. But honestly though before this game did you really see DRK as a tank? :o Personally I didn't really, hehe they always used it to contrast Knight, which was supposed to be the guy in shining armor. I always saw it as Cecil, Leon and in FF3 and FFXI. I mean Yoshida made it work in XIV...in XIV any job can be whatever he decides. Personally I would have liked to see it as a DPS but that didn't happen ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH