New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

Just gonna respond to the OP, (who has time to read 44 pages). Though I'm sure someone else has echo'd these sentiments.

I agree that SQE should look at their base game and their new player experience going into ShB. The road has changed a lot and the bridge is out in some areas, so to speak. (The 100 quests of bloated nothing between ARR and HW needs to go.)

However, what I don't agree with the OP on is the absolute need for their friend to catch up "in time". I understand the desire to experience the expansion with your buddy and all the new content that you're getting. But it makes it sound as though they can't play together at all until that point. The OP just has to do his friends content, instead of the other way around.

Rushing the content is cheapening to the experience anyway. If the friend doesn't take the time to enjoy and get attached to the world of Eorzea, then the elements that keep the OP coming back to the game wont't be there for their friend and they may lose interest more quickly... For the friend, ALL of the game is new content, and there's plenty of time still to get to max level.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Yeah so pay another $50 on a game you're not sure you want to invest in yet because your new. . . :( lol. Also I mentioned there are quite a few other issues with a skip potion.

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You guys are quite greedy.

Let's cut the devs work for free \o/

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I mean its not really that basis, I read the forums I read Reddit, generally the same groups that brag about skipping all the cut scenes or say the story sucks so they don't bother with it, etc etc are the same ones that complain the game is too easy and there's not enough content for them to do.

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I skip the MSQ CSs because it doesn't appeal to me in this game for whatever reason. I've tried multiple times to get into it, but it's just never clicked. I also don't particularly enjoy dungeons or EX or a good chunk of the standard "endgame" content, but I do enjoy other parts of the game. Point is, painting everyone with the same brush isn't a good thing to do as people rarely fit into a box so neatly.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Setting ARR aside bc both sides can agree that its a mess that needs to be worked (not to mention devs have mentioned they are in the process of fixing it) what parts of hw and sb are unrelated/pointless? How much of it is just bloat? Because if we place ARR aside I think you are wrong. These two expansions have very forward momentum quests and hardly any fetch quests unless they make sense. And its safe to assume ShB will follow suit if not follow the trend of being more streamlined and less fetch quests.

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I actually don't recall HW and SB bothering me too much, but ARR has forever instilled a hatred for Minfilia in me due to her constant back and forth. We have a bloody linkpearl, woman! USE IT!. lol. But yeah, I'm happy they've cleaned things up in the later expansions.

My own personal gripe is that it's all required. My first MMO was XI, and you had the option to jump around to story lines as you wished and had no need to actually complete a line if it didn't suit your fancy. It could make for some rather chopped-up story telling depending on how you went about it, but having the option is nice. GW2 was next for me, and they also let you complete the MSQ at your own pace.

When given the choice, I very much prefer to have the story be something I can do when I have the time and not be something that is going to lock me out of items unless I complete it in full. There is probably some middle ground that could be found, but I don't think they'll alter their path too much. I think someone earlier had mentioned that SE is planning to address the ARR MSQ around 5.1 or so (I don't have an actual source for this, so I'm not positive). If that is true, that can only help the new player experience, and will hopefully be enough to keep them chugging along.

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Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

You guys are quite greedy.

Let's cut the devs work for free \o/

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You mean like WoW does a baseline to their expansions now... because they're so generous? Also I don't need the potions since I'm already capped on both, but thanks for calling me names.

(I don't even want the potions as baseline because I don't think they do a good enough job rooting players into the game, I'd prefer another solution).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You mean like WoW does a baseline to their expansions now... because they're so generous? Also I don't need the potions since I'm already capped on both, but thanks for calling me names.

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You're comparing a 15yo american mmo to a 6yo (since v1 doesn't count) japanese mmo.

Calling you names because I said greedy? really?

And again, since when this game need to be WoW2? Let this game be what it is...


Edit to answer you below :

Yeah, remember this is a numbered FF game and not WoW?

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Originally Posted by LyraKuroneko

You're comparing a 15yo american mmo to a 6yo (since v1 doesn't count) japanese mmo.

Calling you names because I said greedy? really?

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Calling someone greedy is calling them something insulting, so yes really. It's like if I called you intellectually dishonest (that's insulting, imo at least).

WoW may be older but FFXIV has a lot more story gate content to get through, they may as well be the same age lol (that huge amount of story is a good thing to many people, I'm not claiming that's bad for everyone but it can be an issue).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Yeah so pay another $50 on a game you're not sure you want to invest in yet because your new. . . :( lol. Also I mentioned there are quite a few other issues with a skip potion.

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Who goes into the game laser-focusing on the endgame without doing research about it first?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You mean like WoW does a baseline to their expansions now... because they're so generous? Also I don't need the potions since I'm already capped on both, but thanks for calling me names.

(I don't even want the potions as baseline because I don't think they do a good enough job rooting players into the game, I'd prefer another solution).

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Perhaps because WoW has a much higher profit and also has other ways to earn it (like the sub tokens)? What they're losing in sub time to get to level cap, they're earning it through other means.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Who goes into the game laser-focusing on the endgame without doing research about it first?

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I haven't made the reason why I think it's a good choice exclusively on end game so you're talking to the wrong person if you want to focus on end game why I think an option is a good thing. I'm sure some other might discuss that perspective better/more excitedly.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Perhaps because WoW has a much higher profit and also has other ways to earn it (like the sub tokens)? What they're losing in sub time to get to level cap, they're earning it through other means.

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I wouldn't know if that's why they chose to, it could be a factor for sure. But I think unless one of us is actually part of their financial team we should avoid playing their accountant since we could make a lot of mistakes and bad assumptions doing it (but not because I think you might be wrong, you could be right - I just think it's error prone and assumption city). Although are you saying if we had sub tokens you think a baseline option is a reasonable choice? Keeping in mind I'm not even trying to get the potions as baseline in the first place (even though that's certainly the fastest "fix"), but I do think an optional solution is in order.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Please tell me how a lvl 20 character would be able to do lvl 30+ dungeons synced with players of similar lvl. I'll say it again; WoW doesn't have a msq but it doesn't automatically mean all the content is unlocked or doable at low lvl. .

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They can simply make the content level gated, the quest tracker will still exist so if people want to enjoy the story they can simply follow the quest tracker but at the end of the day they will be able to do the story at their own pace and not the pace the game dictates.

Edit I do understand that they need to make money and know that these changes prob will not happen because of that, but it is interesting none the less.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I actually don't recall HW and SB bothering me too much, but ARR has forever instilled a hatred for Minfilia in me due to her constant back and forth. We have a bloody linkpearl, woman! USE IT!. lol. But yeah, I'm happy they've cleaned things up in the later expansions.

My own personal gripe is that it's all required. My first MMO was XI, and you had the option to jump around to story lines as you wished and had no need to actually complete a line if it didn't suit your fancy. It could make for some rather chopped-up story telling depending on how you went about it, but having the option is nice. GW2 was next for me, and they also let you complete the MSQ at your own pace.

When given the choice, I very much prefer to have the story be something I can do when I have the time and not be something that is going to lock me out of items unless I complete it in full. There is probably some middle ground that could be found, but I don't think they'll alter their path too much. I think someone earlier had mentioned that SE is planning to address the ARR MSQ around 5.1 or so (I don't have an actual source for this, so I'm not positive). If that is true, that can only help the new player experience, and will hopefully be enough to keep them chugging along.

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I'll admit I agree with you on several points here. But here are my main issues with making the msq optional. If you are a new player, especially one that is not used to mmos then the msq serves as a great funnel towards the end of the game. My issues that I have had with other mmos where the story is either 1. irrelevant or 2. just plain mmo bad story is that I rushed aimlessly from one place to the next and felt extremely lost. Originally, to keep up with a friend in ffxiv I skipped the story from level 30 onwards and did not return to experience the story until I made an alt. This left me extremely lost and confused as to what I was doing as a new player to ffxiv. The msq grounded me more than any other mmo has. I hated the fetch questing and Minfillia, to a point then. I loath going through ARR now, but I have to respect it due to it at least being a compass.

But that is not the only reason I feel the msq is important. That funnel I was talking about leads players to a lot of exp. I cannot fathom what it would be like if the msq was marginalized and suddenly the whole game was open. The amount of wondering from zone to zone and stumbling about that I would have done as a new player would have honestly lead me to quit, if I'm frank. And as much as I hate ARR bloat, one of my worries to them removing quests is all that delicious exp we get will be gone in side quests. At the moment the exp gained from dungeon and msq allows players to rarely run into a road block. Hopefully they will realize that and make the msq quests just have more exp given.

Another reason I think that ffxiv is not doing what ffxi did is that the devs want it to be intentionally linear. To them, they may believe that this funneling of new players (new and old to mmos) will help guide them to end game. Instead of the end of the game just being a lvl number ffxiv ensures that you are at the level when you are finished at the end and have a good map of the game to explore. Excluding ARR's almost 300 quests, this game is very newbie friendly. And I have a feeling the dev team believes that the msq is newbie friendly as well and its why the chose this model. Not saying that they couldn't have designed the game another way such the games you have suggested, but merely the chose not to. And with them wanting to introduce newgame plus and reduce msq in ARR, I really don't think they will remove the msq to be optional.