The thing is, why follow someone with an AOE already running towards the edge? When I’m well away from you and you choose to follow me to the edge anyways, I can’t help you at that point. I’m not even talking about optimizing—if you don’t have to disengage, don’t. And he didn’t have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joryan
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10-21-2018, 04:39 PMHyoMinPark
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10-21-2018, 05:17 PMBourne_EndeavorIt's less about uptime and more practicality. Without vocal communication, it simply makes more sense range will move out further being, well, range. Sure, you'll get people who are utterly clueless but you're far more likely to get scenarios where you overlap... like what HyoMin described.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joryan
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10-21-2018, 05:23 PMLeadleaf
The conversation reminds me of every time I see "meteor" aoes in 24man I never get one first as melees would be claiming them all as I was finishing my cast.
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10-21-2018, 11:30 PMFrizze
Expert roulette just now - St Mociannes(hard). Group was PAL, WHM, SAM, and me on BLM. First red flag, im pulling more agro then normal even though its just my bog-standard AoE rotation on packs of trash. No matter. Run any stragglers back to their pack and continue AoE as normal. Second red flag, tank dies on... i think the first pull after the first boss. I didnt see how it happened(slow healing? no CDs?), just that i suddenly had aggro on 5 mobs. No worries, pop mana shield(watched close to 2 dozen auto attacks get negated - love BLM tank) dodge mob AoEs and continue normal rotation as the healer gets the tank back up and he slowly tries to take back agro. Tank spends the last half of the run doing odd pulls(half pulls with weird stops) and complaining that we wont finish before the reset(and he read his clock wrong, reset was over an hour away at this point) - yet still manages to die to another trash pull. Then as icing on the cake he messes up mud mechanics on final boss and almost wipes us. Just a thought - if youre worried that we arent going fast enough, maybe skip the weird stops and do full pulls. And if your deaths were your own fault(the healer keeping me up while ressing you on two occasions being circumstantial evidence that it probly wasnt him - though i suppose a dead tank would wake up a napping healer at least a little), using all your skills correctly would also help us meet whatever your unstated personal time-goal was for the run.
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10-22-2018, 12:33 AMGemina
My PUG got 'the coach' last night. The coach is someone I refer to in-game that gives unsolicited advice to players during a dungeon run, effectively slowing it down even more than if they just decided to keep their trap shut.
Now, I get that these intentions are for the greater good, and I have debated with other posters on here about a fine line between good intent and trollish behavior when it comes to this. That is not the point of me bringing this up. I don't want to start a debate. The reason why I bring it up is because if you are going to give this advice in an attempt to help a player, you best be doing your own damn job correctly first!
This effin coach taking the form of our tank, couldn't use a CD or dodge an AoE to save his life. He literally just sat in the AoEs, not in tank stance to at least help mitigate some of that damage, and was also losing aggro in the process. My divine benison icon would go away as quickly as it appears. Then he has audacity to tell the group that our DMG is low, and stops in the middle of nowhere to give the SAM and BLM proper rotations. I can't express in words how pissed off I was.
The cherry on top though was his comment to me of "regen>hard casted cures... just FYI" before swiftly making an exit after the last boss. Oh man, I so lost my schite. He was paying so much attention to the DPS that he couldn't see I was hard casting cures ON TOP Of regens just to keep his arse alive. I mean, why even tank bro? This should be a meme, if it isn't already. #%^ PoS #$%^ tank! T_T -
10-22-2018, 12:50 AMIlanWhen i'm on melee i make ranges move away from the boss, i simply don't move. Either we all die or they move, easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joryan
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10-22-2018, 01:15 AMMixt
Shiva hard mode in trial roulette.
We have a dark knight MT'ing.
I notice a bit into the fight that even in Sword Oath, because paladins only have an aggro combo at 50 i am rapidly catching up to her on aggro because she's not using Grit to generate more aggro herself.
So i Shirk her to try to mitigate the issue.
It doesn't help, before Shirk can come off CD i end up ripping aggro of her...just as Shiva does her big cleave.
Result: The Dark Knight, myself and a single healer are the only ones left alive.
What was i supposed to do? Stop attacking entirely and go stand in the corner? -
10-22-2018, 01:44 AMDreggit
Over the weeks of doing omega raids, when off tanking, I get a 50/50 split of reactions to covering a MT for a buster or a healer after being rezed. Some MTs are appreciative and others get upset about it, likewise with healers, but I mean, if you're at 20k up and a buster is coming and healers are low on no, does it not make sense to cover, cool down and clemancy myself?
I thought it was helpful to alleviate pressure off tanks and healers when there is trouble afoot :(
(In other news, almost completed my 300 Pally chievo for the mount on mostly o11 and o12 and somehow still haven't gotten the card drop. Rip my collection) -
10-22-2018, 01:46 AMDreggit
<<To clarify, a tank that's at low health and a healer who was recently rezed and coming into a raid wide ape or damage pool>>
Mobile needs a way to edit posts... or does it? I don't know -
10-22-2018, 02:07 AMkupokage
SE still hasn't implemented a min ilevel for leveling dungeons.
Unglamoured Atma weapon in Shisui, lvl 1 unglamoured glamour headpiece in Braflox etc.
Gives us a min Ilevel for MSQ Baelsar's Wall, but nothing for Sirensong Sea. GG. -
10-22-2018, 02:24 AMAwfulAgreed on this one I got a Doma Castle this morning with a tank that had ilvl 90 accessories and a Brand New Ring, the healer, who was his friend said "oh yeah I can handle this don't worry just DPS hard and we're fine". Tank pulls the first pull and when he pulls the 2nd pack with the bugs he instantly dies with an Excog going off I never laughed so hard and logged off so quickly there needs to be a min ilvl requirement because this is the 3rd time in 2 weeks this has happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by kupokage
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10-22-2018, 03:43 AMAzazelCaineBardam's
I just recently loaded into a Bardam's on my alt WHM. Didn't check gear - tank goes into the megapull and holy hell. Basically, he got rekt. I'll post the dialogue below that ensued. Something needs to be done about allowing this to happen. (Az is MY alt btw - so I didn't feel the need to remove that.)
https://i.imgur.com/1WL3Bx3.png
Now just for better clarification, his Lefts were all unaugmented...BUT WAIT - it gets better! I'll list off the rights: lvl 62 ear, lvl 51 neck, lvl 50 wrist, lvl 53/62 ring.
Long story short - I guess I should just "getgud". -
10-22-2018, 05:27 AMTheMightyMolluskI'd settle for just forcing people to equip their soul stones right now. Just had a gladiator, a conjurer, and a thaumaturge in Expert. They weren't even from the same server, so I don't think it was a deliberate total troll party.Quote:
Originally Posted by kupokage
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10-22-2018, 05:30 AMIlanThats not enough! There has to be a min ilvl that counts for EVERY part of the gear. I'm tired of running into people who still have stuff from the vault in a 67 dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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10-22-2018, 05:37 AMTheMightyMollusk
When I was leveling astrologian, I got a dark knight in Castrum Abania wearing un-augmented Ironworks accessories. Believe me, I feel your pain.
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10-22-2018, 05:43 AMViduI'm not sure if this is what you mean, but: I'd really like to see an addition to the ilvl-check that doesnt only check the average ilvl but also specifically that of the weapon. Its always quite annoying to have people push their ilvl by buying the highste ilvl necklace, ring and belt to make up for their 290-weapon before entering an expert-dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
Yeah, cool, you made the check... in theory. Grats on that. Except that your most important part of gear is 50 ilvls below the required one... -
10-22-2018, 06:11 AMPaladinleedsI would also make it so that based on your level, you have to have a minimum itemlevel to enter the levelling dungeon roulette. So for example a level 66 White Mage needs to be say i270 to queue for levelling roulette. To force them to keep their ilvl up instead of just queueing for the lower level dungeons in roulettes. Same concept for trials roulette.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
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10-22-2018, 10:57 AMKaivaC
PF story upcoming.
Today was quite frustrating. Jumped into a Byakko Ex party, because I haven't actually cleared in my main yet, so jumped into the party. Let everyone know that I had cleared on my alt several times before switching my main. Fight is going good until after the tornado part and his leg sweep comes up. Myself and a tank positioned properly behind Byakko. Everybody else died.
We reset and the party leader says everyone back out real quick. I do, and I'm greeted with this message: "Git gud, grey ninja. Thanks for wasting our time,"
The only mistake I made was getting touched by one orb. At the beginning of the fight. That's it. Got removed from the party before I could say anything. I literally only have one log up and that's in O9S.
I'm just mildly irritated by this. -
10-22-2018, 11:05 AMDirwenFeels like this post is just you trying to justify your not a bad player not saying you are one. However, we only got your side of the story is all I'm saying. I'm not a raider but from what I read on here these high end fights making mistakes are frown upon unless it is a practice fight or a first week blind clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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10-22-2018, 11:07 AMVahlnirSounds like they wanted a scapegoat for someone else's failings. Pretty much it. Just shrug it off and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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10-22-2018, 11:19 AMKaivaCIt's not even a high end fight. It's Byakko ex. My logs from Alphascape should not have a bearing on this fight. Like at all. Especially when the literal only mistake I made was getting hit with one vuln at the very start of the fight. Which didn't lead to anything that required any extra effort on anybody else's part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirwen
If those folks want to come by and explain why their party leader decided to tell me what he said and kick me, I welcome it. -
10-22-2018, 11:24 AMDirwenThen it might be like the above poster said about him using you as a scapegoat. The blame game!Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
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10-22-2018, 11:30 AMKaivaCMaybe, maybe not. To me fair, I am well aware being grey means I'm bad. That has nothing to do with an ex primal from two patches ago that I've cleared with no issues on multiple jobs. People are incorrectly using logs for entirely the wrong reasons. Anyhow, just needed to share that story because that did irritate the hell out of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirwen
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10-22-2018, 11:36 AMJohnSpawnVFX
They scapegoated you. Touching an orb is even barely a mistake.
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10-22-2018, 12:35 PMNolLacnala
https://i.imgur.com/UzXHdVp.png
Saint Moc Hard. 25 minute run, in case you were wondering. -
10-22-2018, 03:21 PMAnselmet
So my roommate and I were trying to do Suzaku ex together but they weren't quick enough to get in my party and they had to join another one. I got 6 clears with little to no hiccups but I hear him getting progressively angrier. so I decided to watch over his shoulder knowing whatever was going on was going to be hilarious. He's on his ast (btw he's pretty new to the game but he's doing such a great job) and he's with a whm that I shit you not is only casting stone iv. No regens, no aero 3 or 2. Just stone iv for the majority of the fight. My friend's mp dips under 1k and the dumbass whm is still stone iv'ing her life away. Tank buster comes out and he dies. Whm gets them up but back to stone iv!!! Eventually dps start to die when my roommate messes up with memorizing refrain and only then does she sorta heal by dropping a medica 2 and then back to stone iv. I've never seen such disregard in healing in my life. They wipe at enrage at 1% and I say to my roommate that if they had just did aero 3 and 2 consistently you would have cleared easy. To say the least he rage quitted for the night if not the rest of the patch lol.
EDIT: Might I add I did not see the whole fight just from where the colors come out the second time. It must have been an interesting fight from the start though if they ended at 1% like that.
I know I should not take pleasure in another person's pain but it was too funny/terrible to not mention on here. But honestly on sch I find this to be extremely common with whm co-healers. Why are more and more seemingly becoming stone iv bots? Or is it just a coincidence? -
10-22-2018, 11:54 PMGeminaConcerning the min ilv in leveling dungeons (which I am totally on board for btw), is for the game to just factor the left side. Accessories typically don't provide direct bonuses to ATK or DEF, and in theory this would keep a player from popping into the instance with a weapon, or other left side gear that is too low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
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10-23-2018, 12:24 AMAwfulThere's still the issue of accessories being present specially for tanks, for example I had a tank with ilvl 90 accessories and a ring from the Library, compared to something that is on par (ilvl 270-282 for Doma Castle) that's 15 VIT vs 93 if you x that by 4 that's essentially 300 effective VIT the tank doesn't have. It doesn't matter much <50 dungeons but after ilvl 110+ that's where things begin to really hurt, I've even had healers with crafting accessories as well that provide no extra MND thus making their heals ineffective. I'm all for including it too I just wish they'd give you a full set of gear upon hitting 50 and 60 like full Augmented Ironworks upon finishing Ultima and for 60 Augmented Shire as soon as you finish the quest for the Library that way people won't be missing gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
Now on topic I just finished a Castrum Albania with a tank who was in ilvl 260 and 230 gear (Shire and Hellfire) was on my Nin and he was getting crushed, no CDs, no nothing, we vote dismissed at the first boss because the wheelie TB kept chunking him past half and then died to autos and getting hit by the line zig zag moves. After that we got a tank who was decently geared up for the dungeon and continued on with the rest of it but yeah ilvl on gear is just bad while leveling and I have no idea why it's so bad lately. -
10-23-2018, 01:00 AMChaoticCrimsonTrust me, it was a blessing in disguise they kicked you. Most of your group screwed up so badly they threw a tantrum after one wipe, and arbitrarily decided to take it out on you despite only making a far lesser mistake early on. They shouldn't have kicked you, don't get me wrong, but it seems to me like you dodged a bullet not having to deal with them for the long haul, judging by their attitude. Wouldn't have surprised me if they ended up disbanding entirely immediately after, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaivaC
In other news, did my weekly O12N clear for my crystalloid yesterday. Week five since the fight came out, no new players. One tank apparently didn't know how to keep M and F far apart to avoid their buff, despite people begging him to pull M to the other end and away from the eye. Healers kept dying, the MNK kept DCing. At one point I was trying to get close to the center during the meteor drops, but the line AoEs somehow managed to box me in next to one of the people marked for meteor, leaving me not enough time to get far enough away. We only wiped once, but it was painful. -
10-23-2018, 01:45 AMBright-FlowerWas this tank level 70 already? Could be they mostly leveled through HoH and then decided to finish the last level in dungeons. Not saying that was a good idea, leveling dungeons aren't hard but a lack of gear will start to catch up, but could explain why there were in CA with level 60 gear still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
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10-23-2018, 02:32 AMGeminaI gotcha. Ideally both right and left should at the very least be adequate for the dungeon, but I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the more gear that is factored into the average, the easier it is to leave a very important slot very under leveled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awful
It does seem to be quite bad. I've been running Shisui, Bardam's, and Doma Castle quite a bit lately and I keep getting tanks that are just getting obliterated. The majority have been DRK. I thought it was me, and there have been things I could definitely be doing better. But when an FC buddy came and replaced a tank that excused himself after multiple wipes in Bardam's, the difference was night and day.Quote:
Now on topic I just finished a Castrum Albania with a tank who was in ilvl 260 and 230 gear (Shire and Hellfire) was on my Nin and he was getting crushed, no CDs, no nothing, we vote dismissed at the first boss because the wheelie TB kept chunking him past half and then died to autos and getting hit by the line zig zag moves. After that we got a tank who was decently geared up for the dungeon and continued on with the rest of it but yeah ilvl on gear is just bad while leveling and I have no idea why it's so bad lately.
I can only guess the abundance of crappy tanks in leveling dungeons. It's more than just the gear. The crappy gear is just indicative of the personality controlling that tank. The leveling stages for tanks can be rough because it is quite common for the DPS and healer to out gear them, which can make aggro management a little tougher. But I think it's the loss of abilities for leveled tanks that makes going back into leveling dungeons anything but desirable. So I think DPS and Healers queuing into the instances specifically are dealing with the barrel scraps. -
10-23-2018, 02:49 AMAwfulNope the tank was lvl 69 with this gear on it's like they never really tanked before or much I don't care much about underlying factors I just want them to be at least prepared instead of just waltzing in and getting destroyed by every mob in the dungeon and then not dodging AoEs, no CDs, being killed from half etc. Like they'd Shield Lob and Flash but they'd miss their Flashes and Circle of Scorns and spam Halone with Flash and never use anything else I don't know how they leveled but for a 69 tank it was pretty underwhelming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
Yikes that's quite bad that you're having the same issue I'm having, and I agree overgeared DPS and healers snapping threat up attributes to their gear/skill I dunno how else SE could solve this issue there's so many tools including buying gear as soon as you hit the first area in SB for all your classes maybe there should be a quest for that? I really don't like how there's a lack of player direction for players to catch up in a sense, especially new players who they've catered to more this xpac but I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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10-23-2018, 03:49 AMRanetsu-AkaganeAs weird as it may sound, I've had white mage healers that only spam esuna as my hp drops. I'm not sure if this is just trolling or what, but it's happened to me at least 4 times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anselmet
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10-23-2018, 05:54 AMLuin
i148 weapon in Shisui isn't acceptable.
Leveling dungeons sincerely need ilvl requirement. The MSQ feeds you gear constantly.
Been a problem since ARR and it's disgusting that there's been nothing to try and mitigate this practice. -
10-23-2018, 05:56 AMVahlnirThe problem isn't really on SE's end, it's on the players. And some people are simply lazy and/or oblivious. If they're new they may not know how gearing works. But...it's also not hard to figure out. So there's not MUCH of an excuse to be using poor quality weapons/armor in higher level dungeons, but...there may be one. Laziness, however, is not an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luin
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10-23-2018, 06:03 AMBerteaux_BraumegainAre they trying to spiritbond with it? All of their other gear is on point.Quote:
Originally Posted by NolLacnala
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10-23-2018, 06:23 AMBerteaux_Braumegain
I did Bardam's Mettle last week as a Warrior with Shire gear. There's not any better gear to get to replace it, is there? I feel like I remember the Steppe vendor gear being worse off.
Either way, with CDs I was able to pull two packs. Things hit hard, but I told the Healer I was new to the dungeon and they kept me up the whole time. I stayed in Tank stance to be safe, but since both bosses have phases where they stop beating up the tank, I was able to go into Deliverance and get off Fell Cleaves. Fortunately, some gear dropped for Tank during the run, so I was able to improve my stats.
I felt kinda happy with how things turned out and got two commendations, even if that means basically nothing. Maybe I'll keep leveling a tank to do dungeons with. It was kind of fun, if nerve-wracking! -
10-23-2018, 06:34 AMSenorPattyYou can't spiritbond convert lost ala mhigan gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain
I guess they're working on gearing themselves as I'm seeing that rakhasa ring and that i390 belt but still...
Feels like to me like they're gearing an alt job. -
10-23-2018, 06:42 AMViduMy guess in those cases is always that all the other gear is easy to get - or at least easier than a decent weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain
You can buy a bodypiece with just tomestones, get that ring as drop from a dungeon...
...but the weapon requires you to actually do something! And if its only 4 runs of O8NM... or buying one off the marketboard...
And thats excatly why this whole ilvl-thing is annoying me - people can just spend enough tomestones on rings and belts and some new gloves to push their ilvl just high enough to pass the checks and yet... they keep their shitty weapon, because they're to lazy to upgrade their most important piece of gear. -
10-23-2018, 07:02 AMBillyKaplanYou actually can, it's a pretty recent change. Only thing you can't convert are the same things you can't desynth yet, being current tome and raid gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorPatty
Not justifying what that person did, just sharing findings.