Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Dervy

A lot of us have always aimed for 663-ish before we knew about this "Different accuracy for different positions" stuff. And "Flank theory" is accurate, 100%. I have a lot of numbers proving this. Just collecting more data for different jobs atm. I won't have numbers for Twintania, but accuracy does vary from the position you're at.

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<3 Dervy <3<3 Dervy <3<3 Dervy <3<3 Dervy <3

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

I'm not trying to make money here, im wondering why there is only a 1 point crit and determination difference between a lvl 47 recipe and a 2 star recipe...

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I wonder if they will change these 2* recipes with the next patch to be viable

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Originally Posted by Dervy

A lot of us have always aimed for 663-ish before we knew about this "Different accuracy for different positions" stuff. And "Flank theory" is accurate, 100%. I have a lot of numbers proving this. Just collecting more data for different jobs atm. I won't have numbers for Twintania, but accuracy does vary from the position you're at.

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You are a credit to these forums, ive been wanting to do this but just havent the time or jobs leveled to do this.

My issue with acc is I need the Allagan Visor...damn thing just will not drop :(

Not getting the important drops from Coil is frustrating to say the very least. Still waiting on my Allagan Trousers Of Maiming as I still don't have any drops from T1. 3 or 4 more tries to get my drops before farming them in 2.2.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticDarkGriever

Not getting the important drops from Coil is frustrating to say the very least. Still waiting on my Allagan Trousers Of Maiming as I still don't have any drops from T1. 3 or 4 more tries to get my drops before farming them in 2.2.

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Yeah... :( I've been semi lucky for the most part with my recent coil group. But in around 4 months of raiding T1-T2, I have seen the Allagan Trousers of Maiming once and couldn't roll because i was on my PLD at the time T_T

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Originally Posted by PArcher

My issue with acc is I need the Allagan Visor...damn thing just will not drop :(

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This.

It just doesn't feel like it's ever going to happen.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

<3 Dervy <3<3 Dervy <3<3 Dervy <3<3 Dervy <3

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<3

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Originally Posted by Manticzeus

You are a credit to these forums, ive been wanting to do this but just havent the time or jobs leveled to do this.

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Unfortunately, parsers are broken :( So I'll have to wait until they're back up so my friend can record my hits/misses... Hopefully they're updated this weekend :D

So has anybody noticed controller hotbar swapping on ps3 has been semi broken lately?

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Unfortunately, parsers are broken :( So I'll have to wait until they're back up so my friend can record my hits/misses... Hopefully they're updated this weekend :D

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A friend of mine told me that a parser called advanced something was already updated shortly after the patch, so it could probably be working (don't know about this for sure though ^^). Maybe your friend could give it a try?

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

So has anybody noticed controller hotbar swapping on ps3 has been semi broken lately?

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It apparently is, and I assume that's what the maintenance soon is about...

But I didn't notice it playing last night, since I use the L2+R2 hotbar "switch" thing (that works perfectly still). I highly recommend using it if you only use 2 hotbars in combat; its really quick and "flows" well.

Yup. They're fixing it in the latest emergency maintenance, which is now. They also broke a lot of other things along with it :( 2.16 is really buggy.

any ps3 users log in yet? did they fix that hotbar swapping bug?

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

any ps3 users log in yet? did they fix that hotbar swapping bug?

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Its fixed yes.

However, I dont know if it was just me.. I still feel as if its gotten slower doing skills, especially if you're fast.

Is there a thread similar to this one but for monks?

Yep sure is: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-Monk-Temple

I have found putting phlebotomize directly after heavy thrust actually produces more damage than after chaos thrust combo. a large portion of that damage comes from the DOT. The chaos thrust combo is a solid 7 -7.5 seconds long. that's at least 2 ticks of 50 ptoency you are losing out on by putting it after the chaos thrust combo. It's also far easier than keeping track of 3 buffs instead of just 2. It does put chaos thrust back almost a whole tick, which would be probably about 25 potency, made up for in the early phlebo. I am confident this raises dps.

also disembowel is not a +10% damage as you have listed in your DOT section. it reduces piercing resistance by 10%, not knowing what the mob's piercing resistance is, this can either be a large dps increase or a very small one. This too, also increases the priority of phlebo above the disembowel combo.

Quick guys. Is resetting my 30 attribute pts worth the 10k seals? Currently at 28 str / 2 dex

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Originally Posted by VaShawn

Quick guys. Is resetting my 30 attribute pts worth the 10k seals? Currently at 28 str / 2 dex

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STR is your primary attribute. I would highly recommend spending the seals to reapply all your bonus into STR. Seals are easily (although it is admittedly boring to do so) farmed. You will reach your maximum DPS by doing so.

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Originally Posted by MissusStick

I have found putting phlebotomize directly after heavy thrust actually produces more damage than after chaos thrust combo. a large portion of that damage comes from the DOT. The chaos thrust combo is a solid 7 -7.5 seconds long. that's at least 2 ticks of 50 ptoency you are losing out on by putting it after the chaos thrust combo. It's also far easier than keeping track of 3 buffs instead of just 2. It does put chaos thrust back almost a whole tick, which would be probably about 25 potency, made up for in the early phlebo. I am confident this raises dps.

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The damage of your Attack/Combo/DoT is determined by your stat-values AT EXECUTION. If you have 15% +dmg from HT when you hit Phlebotomize, that +15%dmg will apply to you initial hit and the entire DoT. Your DoT will not get weaker when HT drops.

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Originally Posted by MissusStick

also disembowel is not a +10% damage as you have listed in your DOT section. it reduces piercing resistance by 10%, not knowing what the mob's piercing resistance is, this can either be a large dps increase or a very small one. This too, also increases the priority of phlebo above the disembowel combo.

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If all your damage (excl. DoTs) is piercing, then a 10% reduction in piercing resistance is effectively a 10% increase of all your damage. Afaik this works 1:1, I'm sure it's been tested and the calculations in this thread are all along these lines: Disembowel + Attack = Attack *1.1


@VaShawn: 10k seals are easily farmed. I am constantly getting them topped up just from weekly WP/AK and selling the greens at the Grand Company Supply Quests NPC.

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Originally Posted by Exa_Jyn

If all your damage (excl. DoTs) is piercing, then a 10% reduction in piercing resistance is effectively a 10% increase of all your damage. Afaik this works 1:1, I'm sure it's been tested and the calculations in this thread are all along these lines: Disembowel + Attack = Attack *1.1

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Which comes to a point i disagree with this thread. Conventional armor/resistance formulas (not just for MMOs) go somewhere along the line of 100/(100+armor/resistance). It makes more sense that a 10% reduction does not mean a straight up 10% increase in damage, if not it makes stacking armor rather moot.

And using 100/(100+resistance) formula gives at best a 3% increase in damage taken, with values up to 400 resistance (we have 34X ish resistance on our characters as basis)

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Originally Posted by MissusStick

I have found putting phlebotomize directly after heavy thrust actually produces more damage than after chaos thrust combo. a large portion of that damage comes from the DOT. The chaos thrust combo is a solid 7 -7.5 seconds long. that's at least 2 ticks of 50 ptoency you are losing out on by putting it after the chaos thrust combo. It's also far easier than keeping track of 3 buffs instead of just 2. It does put chaos thrust back almost a whole tick, which would be probably about 25 potency, made up for in the early phlebo. I am confident this raises dps.

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Yes, you are right. Plebotomize does get an extra 2 ticks at the start of you applying it, but you then lose those 2 ticks on Chaos Thrust application, as both DoTs end at the same time. In total, it's a DPS loss as CT DoTs > PL DoTs. The discussion around it was posted in the more earlier pages, around page 25-40. Somewhere there.

Can i get a quick answer as to when should i start my CT combo based on the CT Dot timer left on mobs?

There comes a point when i follow the rotation where the Chaos Trust Dot were left with 7sec before wear-off and if i did not start my CT combo during that time, it will be too late to re-apply the Dot on mob.

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

Can i get a quick answer as to when should i start my CT combo based on the CT Dot timer left on mobs?

There comes a point when i follow the rotation where the Chaos Trust Dot were left with 7sec before wear-off and if i did not start my CT combo during that time, it will be too late to re-apply the Dot on mob.

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That seems about right. I'm usually opening into ID-Dis-CT with about 6-7s left on Disembowel, so that would be about ~8-9s left on CT

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Originally Posted by VaShawn

Quick guys. Is resetting my 30 attribute pts worth the 10k seals? Currently at 28 str / 2 dex

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It won't change a lot, 2 more str will be like a 0.5 dps increase. It's more for min maxing than a real impact in your performances.
But as said, 10K seals aren't that hard to get and are quickly useless, so do the change when you'll be able to.

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Originally Posted by VaShawn

Quick guys. Is resetting my 30 attribute pts worth the 10k seals? Currently at 28 str / 2 dex

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gotta buff that spear throw, yknow

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

Can i get a quick answer as to when should i start my CT combo based on the CT Dot timer left on mobs?

There comes a point when i follow the rotation where the Chaos Trust Dot were left with 7sec before wear-off and if i did not start my CT combo during that time, it will be too late to re-apply the Dot on mob.

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Yup, that's correct. Just keep going. Your dot's will fit in perfectly and you should reapply the new CT, just as the other one is about to fall off.

I was under the impression that it tooka snap shot of all buffs at the moment a DoT was applied. Can some be confirm that popping B4B and IR will affect the ticks of CT and Ph?

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Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

I was under the impression that it tooka snap shot of all buffs at the moment a DoT was applied. Can some be confirm that popping B4B and IR will affect the ticks of CT and Ph?

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I be confirm that buffs affect DOTs; it's the reason we use buffs at the beginning of the rotation.

Anyone know if the old rotation listed is still rocking the best overall? Heard every rumor, from every different class, claiming some of the abilities like fracture are actually lowering overall dps. IDK what to think anymore, so best post an answer here.

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Originally Posted by Truefaith87

Anyone know if the old rotation listed is still rocking the best overall? Heard every rumor, from every different class, claiming some of the abilities like fracture are actually lowering overall dps. IDK what to think anymore, so best post an answer here.

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The main posts have all been updated for 2.1 and remain current

Thanks for the great thread. I have already learned so much. With the new findings re: accuracy cap depending on where you attack from, what would you guys say is the recommended acc we should be shooting for (with extreme primals) pre-turn 5? I am guessing 465, so that we can use buttons pre-turn 5 and pop deviled eggs for turn 5. What are your thoughts guys?

Yesssssshh!! Got my Allagan Choker of Striking finally :D Swapped those in, plus my Maiming gloves. Just the Tremor Earrings to go now :D

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Originally Posted by Hitokiri

Thanks for the great thread. I have already learned so much. With the new findings re: accuracy cap depending on where you attack from, what would you guys say is the recommended acc we should be shooting for (with extreme primals) pre-turn 5? I am guessing 465, so that we can use buttons pre-turn 5 and pop deviled eggs for turn 5. What are your thoughts guys?

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I currently sit at 461 and say screw it for Turn 5, the only time I hit from the front is the small snakes in the divebomb pit, and they drop so fast it's only a couple hits total anyway. I think 458 is fine to aim for, but I don't think there's any combination of decent gear (read: as little SS as possible) that gives us that.

For extremes you want 0 accuracy on gear. Anything that has 0 accuracy, wear it. They have no hit cap. There's a 0 accuracy section in the BiS lists.

You will potentially be wanting higher accuracy for Turns 6-9, so don't pass on sweet accuracy gear, you just don't really need it all for the current content.

So not to start up this line of discussion again but...

Seems after 2.16, meds don't break combo at all anymore. At least, on WAR I was able to hit Heavy > Maim > pot, waited a full 3 seconds for the hell of it > Storm's Path, path still had its add effects applied. The combo "outline" also did not fade on using the med, as it did pre-2.16. So won't have to worry about missing due to not mashing hard enough at least.

Feel free to verify second/thirdhand.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

I currently sit at 461 and say screw it for Turn 5, the only time I hit from the front is the small snakes in the divebomb pit, and they drop so fast it's only a couple hits total anyway. I think 458 is fine to aim for, but I don't think there's any combination of decent gear (read: as little SS as possible) that gives us that.

For extremes you want 0 accuracy on gear. Anything that has 0 accuracy, wear it. They have no hit cap. There's a 0 accuracy section in the BiS lists.

You will potentially be wanting higher accuracy for Turns 6-9, so don't pass on sweet accuracy gear, you just don't really need it all for the current content.

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Thanks for all your hard work on this :) Looks like the T5 460 ACC BIS it is!

there is no way decreasing piercing resistance 10% would equate anywhere near a 10% dps increase. Lets assume the armor blocks half your damage, at 10% decrease you would effectively only gain 5%. That is unreal that people would argue that it's actually a 10% increase.

as far as ct and phleb ending at the same time, it doesn't. in fact frequently I have 2-3s left on chaos thrust when it comes up in rotation to refresh it. I could cast some useless one off skill with low damage and not get the disembowel buff on disembowel cast but that just isn't helpful.

How exactly am I missing out on 2 ticks of chaos thrust for 1 2.5 sec cast delay? they tick every 3 seconds...that's less than 1 tick.

So far I have heard no logical reasoning against anything I have said...

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Originally Posted by MissusStick

there is no way decreasing piercing resistance 10% would equate anywhere near a 10% dps increase. Lets assume the armor blocks half your damage, at 10% decrease you would effectively only gain 5%. That is unreal that people would argue that it's actually a 10% increase.

So far I have heard no logical reasoning against anything I have said...

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There's no "armor" in this game. Every enemy takes 100% damage unless a specific status changes your damage or the enemy's vulnerability, thus when Disembowel takes 10% resistance away it's straight up multiplying your damage.

Feel free to test this on a level 1 training dummy and against Twintania or another enemy.

You know you can just... record your numbers with Disembowel on and off. And see how much of a damage increase it is yourself.

It's not like numbers were taken purely on face value. They are corroborated with field testing.

Just out of curiosity, where do you guys use your Leg Sweep in your rotation?

I put mine in between Disembowel and Chaos Thrust to cut the animation since DS is such a long animation.