It's about time to add Coil story mode, isn't it ?

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

MMO usually fail when they catter to hard to once side of the player base totally ignoring the other or when they never decide what to do. And I have high doubts a MMO would fail because of "no rewarding end game" alone. there are MMOs without any relevant endgame and still going.

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You really should look at the rise and decline of WoW. The highest growth of subscription rates for WoW was during original vanilla and BC when in fact most of the content was closed off to 99%. Even though it was closed, it kind of kept a goal. With WoTLK it peaked around Ulduar which was basically the birth of normal and heroic. Through the rest of WoTLK sub's stayed about constant and with Cataclysm it started to nose dive as they streamlined all the content. If a game doesn't have a certain amount of difficulty it has no replay value and becomes one of those one day games instead of something that needs to be continuously worked on. With no endgame, not only will raiders lose interest but also most everyone else that doesn't use the game as just a chat service. With no substance every server except Balmung will be a ghost town.

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Originally Posted by Nici

ive read through most of this thread and both sides have made some valid points, i would say SE and Yoshi's team should come up with a Coil Lite(sounds like a new alcoholic beer/beverage) version....which is already implemented in turns 1-5 with the echo, Do we really want something easier than that?...if so maybe Yoshi's team should tweak the fights a bit more for those that are still having trouble. *shrugs*

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That's what I think they should do. It's easy to beat this stuff for a lot of people but not everyone is as fortunate. If they just tweaked some of the mechanics in the fights so it's easy enough to do, I don't think it would be bad. Not for loot or achievements and certainly not for bragging rights, but just to experience the story for themselves.

So many say it's a waste of dev time but taking into consideration there's a huge amount of players that can't enjoy the coil story because of the difficulty of the content, time needed, static creation or whatever the reason, and new content that comes out will just push those people further from the story. It's just another thing that they can't experience.
Thinking of it that way, it's not wasted dev time unless your thinking of only yourself (not you specifically).

I don't see any harm in it, I can give up some of my "dev time" so that these guys can at least experience the story. I'm not so selfish that I will demand new content for me right now! When every new thing just pushes people that much further

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

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I'm honestly very confused as to why you're so focused on the comparison I made as opposed to the overall point of my post. My post isn't invalid just because you're taking offense to the comparison I used.

Vekial is right. The point of the comparison was to give an example in which perseverance and effort helped to gain the results that someone was hoping to achieve, and that said person had bigger obstacles to overcome when attempting to reach that goal than a good chunk of the people who would want a "story mode" for Coil will have to face. It was not meant to compare games, or compare the skill required between games (although you would be hard pressed to convince me that getting to Gold is easier than Twintania).

Everyone has different motivations for trying to complete content, and the story is one of them. Introducing a story mode would take away one of the motivators that some people need to push themselves to get better, and to quote one of my favorite youtubers, "A game cannot survive when its average players are completing content that they perceive to be the same as its best players."

In the end, my feelings on the topic don't matter, and the developers will choose to add whatever content they wish. However, there are many games that have come before FF14, all with different approaches to design, and I hope that the developers study the consequences of various development strategies before they do anything silly.

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Originally Posted by Nici

i would say SE and Yoshi's team should come up with a Coil Lite(sounds like a new alcoholic beer/beverage)

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Coca Coila Lite as a new CUL 3 star recipe please ? :D

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Coca Coila Lite as a new CUL 3 star recipe please ? :D

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Oh please that would totally be an Alchemy 3 star recipe. =P

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Originally Posted by Airikay

with Cataclysm it started to nose dive as they streamlined all the content. If a game doesn't have a certain amount of difficulty it has no replay value and becomes one of those one day games instead of something that needs to be continuously worked on.

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I think you are an interesting historian. Cataclysm lost subs because they adopted a model of severe difficulty for all levels of content, including entry level. It blocked many casual players from any progress. They also had a weak storyline, and not enough *new* zones. Overall it wasn't one of their better xpacs, but it certainly didn't decline because people found it to be too *easy*. I agree that by the time we got WoTLK (though that was my favorite xpac) and Cata their "glory days" were largely over, but those "glory days" were also at the dawn of the mmo, when many of our generation were young and had a lot of time to throw ourselves into masochistic hobbies. The new generation just isn't the same. It's not new anymore. There's more choice. But, I do still think that SE has some things to learn from Bliz. They've managed to hold onto a massive playerbase for a very long time. They are doing something right.

I guess we will just see what happens next month. That game still manages to boast a playerbase several times the size of this one, and they do it with only one platform.

The content was designed for a specific category of players, and those who aren't in that category who wish to experience the content must wait. Just as it is with a lot of other content in this game that is arbitrarily gated.

As it currently is, I'm fine with. Players that are willing and capable clear the content when it's relevant. Those that are willing yet incapable clear it when it becomes irrelevant. Those unwilling and incapable will see the story when the entire arc is completed and the content originally tied to it all is irrelevant.

So, if you aren't willing or capable to clear this content, whether its current or nerfed, I agree. You too should be able to see this story.

In 3.0.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

I read some of your posts again and now I wonder where you had seen anything about adding story mode right of the bat along with new tier or anything. If anything, I asked for T1-5 version soon because it's been a year already and... it's pretty pointless now. Only FC carry groups ever fill with reasonable chance to succeed. SCoB could benefit to come soon too as it will be irrelevant when 2.4 comes so yeah, why not. T10~14ish ? hell not, not before 2.6 at best (2.6 which is likely to be 3.0 but meh, you see the point).

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Already explained why.

4-variations of the fight per immediate implementation is far too much work. They might do it in the future, but their philosophy is to nerf content gradually not immediately, ESPECIALLY raid end-game content

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Just have to point out. Savage mode isn't really based on "original concept" if you look at the mechanics they were specifically changed to prevent us from using "mainstream strats/tricks"

I mean MAYBE this was the original design but I highly doubt it. More like they looked at what we were doing and thought, "Let's just make this fight harder by changing x/y" "This will buy us time until 2.4!"

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The development team already said the original design is basicly what they wanted to do in savage coil, as it was considered too hard to use for the original implementation in 2.0.
Whether it actually is or not, I'm not 100% sure, just going based on what they've said.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Is it bad that when I saw "or no fights altogether", all I could think of was them using the zone, and adding a static dead-body of Twintantia, and when you enter, you just... get a cutscene where Twin is lying there on the ground, dead. "Seems someone already did the work for us." xD and then moving along...

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Thats pretty much my worry, that it'll either be a mindless DPS zerg with no thought to it, or nothing at all.

I think a better solution for Coil Story Mode would be to introduce New Bosses for Coil Story with different mechanics separate and different from Coil Raid Bosses that will replace the Coil Raid Bosses. That way they can introduce a different version of Coil without needing to nerf current Coil Raid bosses.

For Example, Twintania can be replaced by a new Boss being Crystal Dragon (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...al_Fantasy_VI)) along with having new mechanics unique to Crystal Dragon.

Of course the only Story based boss in Coil storyline now is Nael but his/her story boss can be changed to fighting Nael Deus Darnus in his/her human form instead of his/her Bahamut Avatar form. This would change the Nael Deus Darnus fight and mechanic to be more similar to 1.0 version of the fight with a few things adjusted to suit 2.0 mechanics without needing to recreate and nerf the Coil Raid version of the fight.

As for rewards for Coil Story Mode, I have no idea what they can do with that. Maybe introduce some basic dungeon level gears called Lesser Allagan "Gears" and Tomes.

There really isn't much story in coil its mainly there to be the end game raid to fight bosses and get loot.