An Open Letter to Yoshida-san: Please Slice One Zero Off the Housing Prices

the housing should be affordable on day 1 for most players , what do they expect us to grind house gil for half a year and not spending for anything else ?

sorry , the unrealistic pricing just a huge letdown no matter how they or you try to justify it , and will ultimately only lead to most players not experiencing a core feature before their subscription ends , i spent a fair amount of time in this game yet i am nowhere near to afford housing even within the coming months

i think not releasing housing at all would be more beneficial to the game (majority of users) than teasing people for months with it and then not letting them to experience it due to a unreasonable gil barrier

my so far good "customer experience" with the game had taken a small hit right there and when ill be deciding if to prolong my subscription later this year (especially after ESO launch) this will be taken in to consideration as well

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Originally Posted by Zumi

You can go inside someone elses house as long as they are open to the public and a lot of people open theirs to the public so they can show it off.

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sorry , but this is not a solution for people who want to experience housing , its similar to watching someone else play the game instead of you

SE did their latest Legacy prices drop last night. Prices are becoming more affordable on legacy worlds, though there's still a long way to drop.

The cheapest small plot is now 12M on NA legacy worlds. That's about 800k gil per member of a 15-member FC. The medium is 45M or about 900k each for 50. Large is about 1.5M each for 100. (Double these numbers for JP legacy worlds.)

The bottom (mid-March) would be about 132k/150k/250k each at the above numbers of members, but I think most FCs will decide to purchase weeks before that. New listings would start at twice that amount, or 8M/30M/100M for cheapest S/M/L. These numbers apply to both NA and JP worlds.

These numbers don't take into account the "all worlds" pricing adjustments SE is already considering.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Also I see posts such as "Alright so you're going to have a free to play weekend for players that left, what are we supposed to show these players in 2-3 days? New dungeons they can't really enter till they complete some FATE and other requirements? Oh, I hope to god they don't go check out the housing area, it's not because there isn't any housing, but it shows the cost of the land at zone... I'm sure that's just going to kill their interest even more and quit longer..."

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Well said. The continued fault of this relaunch appears to be an unwillingness to invest in the infrastructure necessary for success. I'm sure this is done so that they don't overestimate demand, spread too thin, and have to merge servers later -- but having too few servers to allow players to play the game or access certain features is a problem that has plagued ARR since day one. Being too cheap will absolutely drive players away, especially when you have a sub only game.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

The cheapest small plot is now 12M on NA legacy worlds. That's about 800k gil per member of a 15-member FC.

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Have you seen the small house from inside? There is NO way that 15 (or even 6 - 8) people can fit there ...

Prices are still joke, the "decreasing" / "re-evaluation" of the prices is nothing else but stalling tactics and all this is a farce from the very begining insulting all the players / paying customers out there. Luckilly - people are not stupid and can see through the smoke screen and are already leaving the game where they're being treated like trash.

Yoshi - stop hiding, be a MAN and finally FIX this crap! Cut the price to 1/10 of the lowest tier and set it the same accross the all servers. Can't you see that you're cutting your own branch under you??

The real question is, will FCs who have already bought a house get a refund if there's a big price drop down the road? If not, then there's no reason at all to buy a house. None.

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Originally Posted by HEC

Have you seen the small house from inside?

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Yes, it had a sofa + 2 chairs, a desk with chair, a table with chairs, and a bed. It was "cozy". 10 could sit and 15 could squeeze in. Usually an FC isn't online at the same time, let alone all in the same building. That said, yes, I think the small should be changed to have 2x the floor space and/or a second floor.

Pricing: I also agree that it's unreasonable to expect people to devote 7 days a week for 3 months just to save for FC housing. Those numbers are from an interview last month. Even though that's game content ("fun"), it's nearly 3 hours a day not counting Duty Finder wait times or preparation/travel. More reasonable would be a few days a week, and around a month of saving. I rambled in full about reasonable pricing here.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

Usually an FC isn't online at the same time, let alone all in the same building.

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Actually - smaller FCs often tend to be more tight-knitten, from the same time zone and being on at the same time plus once you'll try to display your valuable raid furnishing trophies in your lovely FC home you'll find out very soon that it's a bit too much "cozy" ;)

Either way - prices are way out of line, the pricing disparity between server is discriminating (and I'm saying that being in the second "cheapest" server group) and the way Yoshi and whole dev team is IGNORING us from the day one and only playing for time with useless "decreases" in the price is very disturbing :(

Personally I think a handful of worlds should band together, spend pretty much the entire worlds gil supply on buying houses and see if we can crash the SE servers and see how much SE grovel and apologize for their (oh so well known) incompetence.
Maybe then they would be a bit less stingy with their spending on ARR as they clearly haven't put enough money into it if a multi-million dollar company are afraid of server crashes.

god damn SE are doing my tits in atm.

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Originally Posted by Illya

The real question is, will FCs who have already bought a house get a refund if there's a big price drop down the road? If not, then there's no reason at all to buy a house. None.

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I highly doubt there will be any refund. After all, they made it so expensive to get gil out of the system instead of getting rid of the gilsellers and bot farmers flooding gil into the game.
Even worse. If your FC leader stops playing, nobody else can take over the FC and if your FC decides to take some time off your house could be gone when you come back (without refund).

And I don't see any reason to buy a house yet. There is no bonus or feature or advantage you get by owning one.
It's just a waste of gil and a style/ego/bragging thing at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

And I don't see any reason to buy a house yet. There is no bonus or feature or advantage you get by owning one.
It's just a waste of gil and a style/ego/bragging thing at the moment.

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Unlike those who run Coil who don't have any interest in the 'bragging rights' or ego .. I see you're on T4.

Your comment about housing is so laughable it's untrue, housing is one of the most casual and least hard-core activities and casuals are those who least care about phat lewt or the 'bragging rights' so many end-gamers think [stupidly] such items gain them.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Unlike those who run Coil who don't have any interest in the 'bragging rights' or ego .. I see you're on T4.

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In the absence of alternate advancement paths the only way to increase your character's potential currently is via loot. As such, running endgame content to maximise said potential is perfectly acceptable and in line with developer's expectations and game design. You seem to have an axe to grind with "end-gamers" I'd imagine your perception will change when you actually level to that point.

Additionally, claiming housing is not hardcore really shows a poor lack of understanding of the required amount of work people who have already achieved this have had to put in. You really think the work required to appropriate a 625 million plot of land on a Legacy server is trivial and not as hardcore as running a particular instance once a week?

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Unlike those who run Coil who don't have any interest in the 'bragging rights' or ego .. I see you're on T4.

Your comment about housing is so laughable it's untrue, housing is one of the most casual and least hard-core activities and casuals are those who least care about phat lewt or the 'bragging rights' so many end-gamers think [stupidly] such items gain them.

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1. I think I fail to understand how the progress of my small FC in Coil, which we do for the challenge and of course the loot, has any connection with earning gil and housing. Care to elaborate?
Also, don't judge over people you don't know. Neither am I hardcore nor elitist. I like getting things done and I like helping others out.

2. What's laughable about expressing my opinion?
As it stands, housing is not casual at all. The casual part about it is to design your house and fill it with stuff from your adventures and so on.
But to get to that part you either have to be in a really big FC or grind (because that's what making gil is) enough till you are able to afford a plot of land.
The entertaining and casual part about housing should be to equip it with stuff.
That should be the long-term content to work on, not building a house you fill with stuff in a matter of days.

I'm not asking for instant gratification. But the reward (housing) should require reasonable effort for what it has to offer.
But currently housing doesn't offer any bonus to anything and doesn't enable you to do something you couldn't do without a house (please correct me if I'm wrong).

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Originally Posted by HEC

Either way - prices are way out of line, the pricing disparity between server is discriminating (and I'm saying that being in the second "cheapest" server group) and the way Yoshi and whole dev team is IGNORING us from the day one and only playing for time with useless "decreases" in the price is very disturbing :(

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It's hard to know what exactly is out of line since so much of the housing situation is so messed up. But SE has responded to our outrage (the JP are equally vociferous, we're told). It's just not what we want to hear: Pricing is set high to discourage sales, because there's not enough capacity. Prices will be lowered even more over the coming months.

My understanding is if they made houses free or cheap even now, a month after the feature's release, they would have to stop sales almost immediately once they hit capacity. Players just can't win at this point in time. And therefore neither can SE.

^^

That would be better than only the select few that can afford one. At least then the content SE put into the game would be used. It would also encourage SE a little more to get more wards sooner as they fill up. It's a no brainier to me. As it is now the housing areas are just wasted space. If SE didn't want us to use it or are not ready for us to use it then they should not have released it when they did. I'd rather see a busting ward and wait on more capacity than it completely dead.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Unlike those who run Coil who don't have any interest in the 'bragging rights' or ego .. I see you're on T4.

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Excuse me sir, when one is trying to prove a point via sheer egotistically illogical, biased and unfounded opinion, one generally tries to use correct grammatical structure when doing so, so that an intelligent person may not (as I am) pick apart any flaw in it, piece by piece.

The opening statement of your second sentence, and I quote; "Your comment about housing is so laughable it's untrue-" Is in fact so backwards it is laughable. See what I just did there? I made you look like an idiot in front of your peers because, good sire, you are.

I myself care very much about endgame content pushing and progression, having been a realm-first raider in my WoW days, also, please Google "I Can't Hear You Over the Sound of How Awesome I Am".

-Hessa

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Originally Posted by Hessarial

Excuse me sir, when one is trying to prove a point via sheer egotistically illogical, biased and unfounded opinion, one generally tries to use correct grammatical structure when doing so, so that an intelligent person may not (as I am) pick apart any flaw in it, piece by piece.

The opening statement of your second sentence, and I quote; "Your comment about housing is so laughable it's untrue-" Is in fact so backwards it is laughable. See what I just did there? I made you look like an idiot in front of your peers because, good sire, you are.

I myself care very much about endgame content pushing and progression, having been a realm-first raider in my WoW days, also, please Google "I Can't Hear You Over the Sound of How Awesome I Am".

-Hessa

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I feel like you didn't actually read what he was saying. I think perhaps you should read what he was responding to before getting your underwear in a knot.

BTW, ICHYOTSOHAIA is a nice achievement, but the majority of people who got it got it with 2 tiers extra gear. Flashing Sinestra around like it actually matters a full expansion later (and in another game, no less) when it was a buggy fight with some of the dumbest mechanics I've ever seen as a healer, really doesn't earn you any street cred.

And yes, I have the achievement, too. I'd like a medal, please.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

1. I think I fail to understand how the progress of my small FC in Coil, which we do for the challenge and of course the loot, has any connection with earning gil and housing. Care to elaborate?
Also, don't judge over people you don't know. Neither am I hardcore nor elitist. I like getting things done and I like helping others out.

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I think what he was getting at is that you're judging this situation as "not worth your time" and finding yourself "unable to understand" anyone who has an issue with it. Yet, you actually care about Coil, obviously.

Sometimes people care about things that have nothing to do with achievements or tangible advantages. That doesn't make them wrong. You have things you care about, which is fine. But don't put people down because they care about different things.

If that wasn't what you were trying to do, I apologize, but that's how the initial comment you made seemed to indicate that was your issue.

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2. What's laughable about expressing my opinion?
As it stands, housing is not casual at all. The casual part about it is to design your house and fill it with stuff from your adventures and so on.
But to get to that part you either have to be in a really big FC or grind (because that's what making gil is) enough till you are able to afford a plot of land.
The entertaining and casual part about housing should be to equip it with stuff.
That should be the long-term content to work on, not building a house you fill with stuff in a matter of days.

I'm not asking for instant gratification. But the reward (housing) should require reasonable effort for what it has to offer.
But currently housing doesn't offer any bonus to anything and doesn't enable you to do something you couldn't do without a house (please correct me if I'm wrong).

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From your initial comment (that Kraggy was responding to), it honestly sounded like you were saying that casual players shouldn't get access to a house. Now it seems like you're saying the exact opposite. Maybe it's because it's 4am, but I'm terribly confused now. I actually think you and Kraggy are misreading each other's posts, because you both appear to be saying the same thing after this clarification.

HOLY WALL OF TEXT O.O....sorry didnt read all of that lol.....but im pretty sure they are planning on bringing out
a solo house....we can sit and be lonely there and dream about a bigger house with friends lol.

Hi, I'd like to cast another vote in favor of making housing pricing more reasonable. Also, the small house size is so small that no normal sized FC is going to want one.

Prices should be:

4 million: Small, 15 million: medium, 40 million: Large --- across all servers.

That would be fair. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by WhiteGarden

Prices should be:

4 million: Small, 15 million: medium, 40 million: Large --- across all servers.

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Actually - divide it by another 4 and you've got my vote ;)

Small shouldn't be more than 1 mill - anyone remember Yoshi claiming 3 players leveling up to 50 should be able to afford one (house) - not specifying the size so lets asume worst and say small?? That shouldn't be (much) more than 1 mill then.

Medium 4 - 5 mills

Large 10 mill tops

Anything above that is extortion and or idiocy for causual content with (currently) no other than "show-off" value.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

From your initial comment (that Kraggy was responding to), it honestly sounded like you were saying that casual players shouldn't get access to a house. Now it seems like you're saying the exact opposite. Maybe it's because it's 4am, but I'm terribly confused now. I actually think you and Kraggy are misreading each other's posts, because you both appear to be saying the same thing after this clarification.

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Did it really sound like that? If it did then I'm sorry.
What I meant was that, at the moment, housing is not worth the massive investment because it's only a style item or let's call it "achievement".
In my opinion.

My problem with the current prices for a plot of land, is that it's locking out casual players from this content.
Some might never be able to experience it, which is a sad thing for a rather casual game like FFXIV.

And it's not clear what will happen to your house if the FC leader stops playing or if people don't log in for some time.
What will you tell people who paid 5mil to their FC and a few months later nobody is left who can manage the FC?
I don't know if there is some official response regarding this, but as long as these things are unclear my FC won't get a house anyway. If someone got more info on this {I'm interested}.

If players say they love the current state of housing, ok, opinions are different.
But earning gil is not really the content I'm looking for. Doing that in RL is enough for me.

PS: It's really time to get rid of this stupid 1000 character limit ><

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Originally Posted by Kyana

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I believe you can edit your post and add more.

on-topic: housing in this game is boring and I am relatively sure its not even "ready" per say which is why they have this ridiculous price [server limitation & the feature not even being fully developed]

This is pretty sad when you see a company scramble so hard to push content out...

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

I believe you can edit your post and add more.

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I know, but still ^^


Btw. this just popped up. An update to housing prices.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...6%29-Follow-up

And another interesting thread about the current number of houses on different servers.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ur-server-have
Not too many...

Kyana's post brings up a few good points:

- SE provides almost no information about housing. Kyana wants to know about policies, ownership, transfer, etc. I would like to know about capability (like: will some future housing features or content be available for all sizes?). These seem fair questions to ask before making such a huge purchase.
- Is housing luxury or hardcore? It's a luxury item, with luxury prices, and currently no tangible benefits, yet SE's economic policies and actions make it unaffordable except to hard core gamers. SE's own information says that playing 7 days a week for at least several hours a day will allow people to save enough for housing in "only" 3 months. 3x7x90 12 = 1,890 252 hours of gameplay, per person, multiplied by however many people in your FC, to afford an appropriate-sized FC house.
- Economic inconsistency. SE apparently doesn't approve of gil. They outright confiscated it from crafters who legitimately earned it, flooded markets to kill prices of high-demand items, allow botting to drive prices down, price-gouged housing to drain legitimate savings of players, etc. Yet they price housing in gil and expect people to play hardcore to amass gil from content to be able to afford housing.

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Originally Posted by Kyana

Btw. this just popped up. An update to housing prices.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...6%29-Follow-up

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Spreadsheet time! :) ( *tappety-tappety* )

Tomorrow's prices for NA legacy worlds:
• Legacy prices drop 14%.
• New prices: 10M, 37M and 124M for least expensive S/M/L.
• JP data center worlds will be double those prices

Fri Jan 24 prices:
• Legacy prices drop 17%.
• New prices: 7.8M 5.9M, 29.5M and 98.4M for least expensive S/M/L.
• JP data center worlds will still be double those prices

Edit:

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Originally Posted by FJerome

Sorry if someone's posted this here already but it looks like they're reducing prices by 50% but on the small plot-sizes only?
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...8de0140df31567

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That's new. Thanks! I have updated the Jan 24 price of the small legacy plot to show the 25% reduction scheduled for Jan 20.

Sorry if someone's posted this here already but it looks like they're reducing prices by 50% but on the small plot-sizes only?

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...8de0140df31567

[NA] Price Adjustment on the Small Plot of Land (Jan. 16)
At the following time, we will be adjusting the price on the small plot of land.

[Date & Time]
Jan. 20, 2014 at around 8:00 p.m. (PST)

Based on the current economy of Eorzea and the sale situation of the land, we will adjust the final price on the small plot of the land down to half of the current settings on all Worlds.

The price will be adjusted gradually where first it will be reduced by 25% on January 20th, 2014 along with the release of the patch 2.15. In an additional adjustment, that is planned to be conducted by late February, the price will be reduced gradually down to 50%.

Furthermore, the final price of land across all Worlds will be announced once it is finalized. Please be advised that the pricing of land on all Worlds will be subject to change even after the above adjustments have been made.

Great news!!! Square is reducing the price on a house size that nobody wants!!! Am I right about that? Seems like most threads say that the small house at least needs a basement in order for it to function on a FC level. So, why the reduction in small house prices? Why not just keep prices where they are and add a basement instead? More people would buy them then... right?

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Originally Posted by Percyphanie

Great news!!! Square is reducing the price on a house size that nobody wants!!! Am I right about that? Seems like most threads say that the small house at least needs a basement in order for it to function on a FC level. So, why the reduction in small house prices? Why not just keep prices where they are and add a basement instead? More people would buy them then... right?

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Honestly, right now there's no reason to have any size except to show-off or because you want an RP venue. If you want it for the latter reason, which is why my FC wants one, then you can certainly come up with an in-character reason for owning a small-sized house.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

SE's own information says that playing 7 days a week for at least several hours a day will allow people to save enough for housing in "only" 3 months. 3x7x90 = 1,890 hours of gameplay, per person, multiplied by however many people in your FC, to afford an appropriate-sized FC house.

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That would be 3 hours a day * 7 days a week * 12 weeks (3 mo) = 252 hrs per person.

There are not 30 weeks in a month.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

That would be 3 hours a day * 7 days a week * 12 weeks (3 mo) = 252 hrs per person.

There are not 30 weeks in a month.

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It's not even that bad if you do 6 dailies at the max level you make about 6k gil. So every player near 50 should be able to make 6k * 7 days * 12 weeks = 504000 gil. Meaning that even on the legacy servers when they get reduced down to the 3rd bracket and with the 50% cut on small houses(should come to about 2mil) you need a guild of 5 ppl doing dailies to buy a house assuming you lose about 15% of that to repairs. All for about 20min of work a day.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

That would be 3 hours a day * 7 days a week * 12 weeks (3 mo) = 252 hrs per person.
There are not 30 weeks in a month.

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Oops! Corrected. ty.

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Originally Posted by HEC

Actually - divide it by another 4 and you've got my vote ;)

Small shouldn't be more than 1 mill - anyone remember Yoshi claiming 3 players leveling up to 50 should be able to affor one (house) - not specifying the size so lets asume worst and say small?? That shouldn't be (much) more than 1 mill then.

Medium 4 - 5 mills

Large 10 mill tops

Anything above that is extortion and or idiocy for causual content with (currently) no other than "show-off" value.

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Ok. I didn't want to seem 'greedy' but I agree. The small certainly isn't worth more than 1 million. But the medium/large could go for more. 10 mil for medium and 25 for large?? lol if only we were in charge!!!

SE should have a contest with the winner being in charge of FFXIV for a day!!! We could get things straight around here lol :D

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Originally Posted by FJerome

Honestly, right now there's no reason to have any size except to show-off or because you want an RP venue. If you want it for the latter reason, which is why my FC wants one, then you can certainly come up with an in-character reason for owning a small-sized house.

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My FC wouldn't fit into a small house. Even with an "RP Reason," it wouldn't make any sense for our Free Company's in-character organization/foundation. We want a house so we can hang out in it and make it an RP focal point. At this point, a Medium or Large is the size we need. We simply have too many players in our FC to make it with a small house. I mean, have you seen them? They're smaller than the inn room! Honestly, they should be single-player housing, not FC housing.

I personally feel prices should be

small: 500k. Something anyone could afford. Small fcs could have their own house.
medium: 3 million. Something few could afford without people pitching in. Would require a decent size fc
large: 10 million. Something 1% could afford. Requires a very large fc with many rich members willing to contribute

These would be non legacy prices.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

My FC wouldn't fit into a small house. Even with an "RP Reason," it wouldn't make any sense for our Free Company's in-character organization/foundation. We want a house so we can hang out in it and make it an RP focal point. At this point, a Medium or Large is the size we need. We simply have too many players in our FC to make it with a small house. I mean, have you seen them? They're smaller than the inn room! Honestly, they should be single-player housing, not FC housing.

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*shrug* Well, since the Adventurers' Guild provides us all with free room and board our company's house is just going to be our beach hut for crashing and chilling out, it'll be about the right size;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_hut

Two things that would make Small more attractive is adding a basement and the ability to resell a lot.

Small - 1 Million
Medium - 5 Million
Large - 10 Million

Honestly after being inside both small and medium sized houses, still no large yet so i won't comment. Even with the price change announcement the costs still far out weigh the sizes. A small house can still only comfortably fit at most two people, the medium maybe 8 people at most, as for the large I don't know.

So what I want to know is what exactly is the purpose of a Free Company /house/? The depliction shows it as a place to live. A house to /live/ in. A normal suburbian neighborhood of homes where people water the lawn on Sundays, cut the grass on Mondays, wash the cars on Tuesdays and say "Howdy Neighbor" every morning when going out to get the morning paper. The houses I've walked in all reflect this with their big comfy couches and beds and hot tubs and feeling of being at /home/.

So am I missing something? Is this a cultural differential thing I'm missing? Is the idea of a Free Company /home/ mislabeled as a /house/ when it was meant to be a /business/? The place we all trudgeingly go to every morning to do our 8+ hours before going home to our normal houses?

If this is indeed a cultural thing and work in Japan is different from work in North America and everywhere else please let me know. Just because in all my time as shipping secretary never once have I gotten up from a meeting table to sit on a big comfy couch or lay in a big comfy bed or point out a window and say "Hey after we finish the talk on quarterly income lets all go and sit on the beach with umbrella drinks!" If the free company homes were meant to be business only then why is the setting not a industrialized city and why does the interior and exterior not resemble a office building or factory? If it was meant to be worked out of then why is it made to look like a place people would want to live in?

If that's the case I could forgive the prices and only if all future free company /house/ benefits. Yes I'm looking at you airship and boating docks, were active among all company house sizes, small, medium and large.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

Snip.

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It's whatever you want it to be. I've seen some designed as a clubhouse, other as a live in house, while other as a casual meeting area. If I purchased a small for my FC, I would set it up as a clubhouse with table, seating, and trophies on the wall.

As for the announcement, the problem isn't cost when it comes to selling Small Lots, it's size that is the big turn off. It really needs more floor space.

Potikun updated the chart with the new values for housing

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Originally Posted by Potikun

、ハウジング価格表更新！（｀・ω・´）

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

It's whatever you want it to be. I've seen some designed as a clubhouse, other as a live in house, while other as a casual meeting area. If I purchased a small for my FC, I would set it up as a clubhouse with table, seating, and trophies on the wall.

As for the announcement, the problem isn't cost when it comes to selling Small Lots, it's size that is the big turn off. It really needs more floor space.

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I don't think your tables would fit into your house. >.>