This is like coming into a group of people having a civil discussion about something in a public place and telling them not to talk to each other because you personally think they shouldn't discuss things because you think it is pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaFaye
If you think discussing things is pointless why do you come and read and post on a Discussion Forum? I will never understand people like this...."Don't discuss things I don't agree with!"
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08-13-2017, 11:51 PMMiste
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08-14-2017, 12:51 AMaxetotheface
Simple, I do not mind being judged by numbers and or using meters when i am doing "hard" contents as this is one way for me to RESPECT other people's time by not sucking/ becoming burden
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08-14-2017, 12:51 AMKacho_NachoRawrz, it's more likely that one of the forum moderators saw the thread and did their moderating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
Wow, just wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by akaneakki
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08-14-2017, 01:04 AMSaitoHikariI distinctly remember the OTHER poll too. I remember this poll being created in response to the other being nuked from the forums, only to result in the exact same ratio of votes AGAIN. The best part is the screenshot doesn't even include the personal parser votes from the third post, which only has 100 less votes from a public one - still far higher than the ones not wanting any form of official parsing, and utterly annihilating it when combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
That's pretty clear-cut right there. Possibly the only evidence-based data gauging community support, and everyone pretends it doesn't exist. -
08-14-2017, 01:20 AMakaneakkihttp://i.imgur.com/7AVOBla.png Yeah just wow!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho
And also as I said in previous post I did earlier me and Reyn did play together in some susanos. He's fresh 70 drg since I think he did lvl tank to 70 first. I dont think he ever did susano as DRG, or just 1-2 times, however we made a PF with some randoms and some friends of mine. I asked him after fights who did best or not, suprised he was that he out dpsed the MNK with way better gear and the mnk never died and he asumed the RDM was top too which he was almost close being but wasn't. I' will be honest here and most people who see my post around here, also know I'm very blunt. However even if me and Rey disagree on something, doesn't mean that I won't bad mouth him at all. He did pretty decent for first few susanos as drg and performed better than a MNK who done it more as well. Reyn knew he could do for example nastrond after he starts sword phase but he slipped it out before sword and could only do 1 instead of 2. This you know you don't need a parser for, however a parser would also give you info that you could also handle it on many different levels. For example if you see a very very bad performance group you can even do 2 nastronds before sword phase. You don't need a parser to understand if the dps is low or not, but since DRG does have a buff to another melee nearny it would also be benefit giving it to the highest dps or second highest. I also see DRG's pop piercing combo on the sword too which is a dps loss as wel, since it dies so quick you lose potency and you will have a dot that only ticks 2-3 times. For example the MNK who did poor performance probably thought he did well but he wasn't, just as Reyn thought he did good but the MNK was near tank dps which shouldn't be a thing. You can never judge people with the gear. I was in a omega 1 savage with a Sam with 345 weapon who did as much as my DRG with 320 weapon.
Gear doesn't mean anything if you don't do good rotations. And frankly you can see better geared players than me on my MNK doing 500 less than me. And my mnk is ilvl 310 just saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyCirha
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08-14-2017, 01:21 AMRawrzI created the Version II thread to more accurately gauge who wanted an in game parser and out of those who wanted only an personal parser, why they wanted to parser or alternatively why you wouldn't want a parser. I waited over a year to let the thread die so I could remake a more accurate poll.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaitoHikari
After 180+ votes it was removed for "intentionally having a negative impact on the community" and after 9 days of responding to a ticket i sent in about it, They still couldn't give me a clear reason how I had violated the forum rules.
The original parser thread has existed over a year now without repercussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho
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08-14-2017, 01:41 AMLaurawrzzI think it's a bit ignorant to assume with such a broad statement that parsers "won't add more bad seeds to the game" (I'm stressing this part because I don't only see it as a future problem, but also a present problem - for me, it's already happening). Of course, we both only have circumstantial evidence of 'trust me I saw X', so any story you have for your PoV I've got one to counter it for mine. Only last night I was in Trial Roulette (yes - Trial Roulette) where the MT was consistently listing each DPS in order of DPS damage throughout the whole fight. Nobody asked for it, and nobody needed it. It was Titan, and no one cared, but he/she still did it. This isn't something I seldom see.Quote:
Originally Posted by akaneakki
Personally, I've seen enough to convince me that parser use is increasing hostility here and now, and I only see it getting worse as parser use, despite SE's statements on it, becomes more and more accepted by the community. A year ago the letters ACT were still kind of "alien", but now it's common. Now people talk about it openly. Now at the end of many runs the PT gets a link to FFLogs from some DPS who hit the 90th percentile and wants people to pet their ego. To many casual players, the numbers on that chart mean little, but they do recognise they're at the bottom of the list. Whether they choose to take that personally is their perogative, but all these players, who are trying to play a game and have fun, see numbers and statistics and themselves as inferior. To someone who doesn't want to spend their gaming life staring at numbers, it's a huge put-off. You can wave good bye to the casuals as this game becomes increasingly elitist.
Rotations were always a huge thing, but now they're more important than ever. We have a problem now that people can't rely on their instincts anymore, or play with any kind of personality injected into their play style. They have to find an online number crunch and do what it tells them to do so they're not bottom of that list. It's like we're all turning into robots doing the same thing over and over. If you don't, if you're a little different, if you put one ability before another which means that maybe the cooldown isn't completely 'optimal', then you are not 'right'.
Half of the fun in gaming for me is relying on my wits. In FF9 when I was 9-years-old, I reached the Tree of Life, and after a couple of deaths I figured out for myself that I needed to use a phoenix down to hurt the fella. When I figured that and did it, I was so, so happy, and I garnered great satisfaction from that. My personal joy from video games comes from not having a playguide to tell me what to do. I want to figure it out for myself and succeed on my own terms. I want to live and die on my intuition. I want to change up my style and develop through my own personality, not whether I can keep an 'optimal rotation' made by some person on Reddit going. This is why I love healing so much. It's far more instinctual than rotational. This is why I don't like playing my BRD anymore. It's a little instinctual of course, but now I constantly feel the pressure on any DPS role. I hate playing it these days, and it was my main since I started. When I found myself looking at BRD Reddit rotations to see what I should be doing post-SB, I had a moment where I sat back, and realised that this isn't fun, not anymore, and I was only doing it because of parsers.
Again, we're now robots, all working at maximum efficiency because someone on Reddit posted some number graph that apparently proves that their rotation is the best thing "evaaah", so now we all have to do that too. Parsers make this worse. It accentuates the problem. Even if you're fine doing your own thing, it's still not 'optimal'. It kills any nuances of you and makes you do it like everyone else. How boring. Surely I can't be alone? :confused:
I have no doubt whatsoever that parsers have great merits - I understand completely why some people love them and worship them and I have no doubts that situations like yours could be avoided by an in-game parser. It may surprise you to learn I parse, so I can check my healing rates are up to scratch. The great thing about heal is you can personalise, without an optimal rotation, it without getting sh** from other people. The way I heal is personal to me. If I played BRD again, it's not me anymore. What I don't do, and what I vehemently disagree with, is 1. putting it publicly on FFLogs, or 2. using it to shame people in-game. 1. I don't have their consent to plaster them all over FFLogs, and 2. I don't care. The problem is, the world and its people aren't made of candyfloss-covered Smurfs and a lot of people do care what other people are doing, and they like to let people know when they are doing better than someone else. That's just human nature, cos we're an ass of a species when it comes to judging each other. As parsers increase, it will get worse and worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by akaneakki
Some people just want to play the game, and they should be allowed to mature and grow of their own accord, at their own rate, as above. Isn't that the whole point of a video game?
Parsers have benefits, but please also recognise the detriments. They have both, and the proof of that is parsers would not be the point of so much discussion if there wasn't something to disagree about. -
08-14-2017, 02:15 AMLunaFayeYou're proving my whole point. Read what stands there, not what you think stands there. I've never said you can't discuss anything, I said the discussion itself is pointless, because there will be no clear answers. You have the 5 people that read and write in the forums, that want a parser, but the forum community is not the ones that see the good in it. Therefore having that discussion, doesn't make any sense, because at the end it's just "no we don't want it because it's harassment", even if people show clear evidence or make good points in their arguments, that this wouldn't be the case. Words and sentences get twisted or misinterpreted because most people have made up their mind already, reading one part of a post, or half of the post and then think to themselves "hell no I know where's this going" and then we are back were we were. That's in my personal opinion not a discussion, it's a bias opinion nothing more, but whatever makes you happy at the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miste
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08-14-2017, 02:50 AMMyaValentineif anything you are proving hers. we shouldn't discuss because for you it's pointless. If you are not interested in the disscusion move on and let other people do what makes them happy at the end? both of your post added nothing to the disscusion of the threat nor the main op which was a very good point of disscusion to come across, we are not specifically talking about parser we are talking about how this game has tight dps checks but then ignore the fact that dps has no form of measuring their performance or improve it with ingame means all the rotation and theory crafting that this community base themself on are made by a hardcore community of thery crafters and the use of parser without all the information the community has provided half of us would not be craking half of the potetial each class needs to meet those enrage times. yet we have them and they are a thing the game expects from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaFaye
if this disccusion is pointless for you then find another threat that pleases you and move on. I understand what you were trying to say, anti-parsing crow will deny any sort of susbtantial fact or argument because " I don''t want so we should not have it" but if anything this threat also helps make the devs know that this oppinion exist and we want something to help us. I think their sad attempt at not bringing this in to the game is the reason the skill ceiling on this game is so different between bad and good " not because players who want to be bad will continue to be bad" but because players who have no information know they are actually doing bad since they can't measure what they are contributing. -
08-14-2017, 04:22 AMMisteNo, like MyaValentine said all you are doing is showing the issue that I brought up about your original post I quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaFaye
You post this:
Which is basically just a thinly veiled insult to anyone who actively participates in any debate on this forum. You are basically saying everyone here argues for no reason and it is all pointless and has no value (and calling everyone streamer sheeple). To me that is pretty rude and wasn't necessary. You didn't post with the intent to talk about the topic of the thread; all you did was post in order to make fun of anyone who discusses things on the forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaFaye
Which is why I responded how I did. You may not have blatantly said "you can't discuss anything", but you definitely tried to make fun of anyone who was discussing which is in the end the same thing as saying "you can't discuss anything" because you'll make sure to come in and make fun of them for arguing. No one wants to be shamed for just participating in a social activity.
I mean if you want to have that opinion then sure do it, but have some respect not to come in and make fun of the entire forum community for having a debate about something and using a discussion forum for what it is there for. If people are discussing a topic that you feel has no value then you have no obligation or necessity to join it. You think it is pointless, you think it has no value, fine, but don't join in just to make fun of people who think it does have value.
Like I said before if you come across a group of people discussing a topic you don't like do you go over and tell them "stop arguing for the sake of arguing; your discussion is pointless"? Because that is basically what you did here. Does that sound like a nice thing to do? Does it sound like it was necessary to make fun of those people for their discussion when you could have just walked away?
Discussion is discussion... it covers any and all things, including opinions. Yeah we talk about opinions a lot on this forum, but why is that somehow not a discussion anymore just because we are discussing opinions??Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaFaye