Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent. 2.0

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That Healer, could have waited the few seconds for that Tank, to grab aggro, then attack...

But yeah.

Extra points when you're mid-pull and one of the DPS starts dumping all of their CDs into a single mob. Somehow they're always surprised when the mob that's probably only been hit once or twice by the tank decides they look tasty.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

My biggest gripe lately with DF, is tanks that stop at the FRONT of the second pack of enemies rather than pulling through them so that everything is in a tighter cluster for those sweet, succulent, AoEs to hit. Had it happen on the last 3/4 Expert roulettes I ran, and when things are super spread because of it, not all AoEs will hit everything(especially the targeted ones).

Why do people like to stop in front of the second pack, grabbing them still, but keeping them split?

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Bonus points to the ones who stop at the FRONT of the pack and then CLEAVES the party with AoE because they didn't pull further up.

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Originally Posted by HolyReign

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That Healer, could have waited the few seconds for that Tank, to grab aggro, then attack...

But yeah.

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Ooor if a healer somehow manages to pull off the tank, it OGCD heals itself and runs after the tank and everyone moves on with their lives because the tank doesn't even need to target a mob to draw aggro on it due to how faceroll easy dungeon tanking is.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Extra points when you're mid-pull and one of the DPS starts dumping all of their CDs into a single mob. Somehow they're always surprised when the mob that's probably only been hit once or twice by the tank decides they look tasty.

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This and regen queens.

What's a regen queen? I've never seen that term lol

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

What's a regen queen? I've never seen that term lol

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I’m going to assume they refer to the healers that always slaps you regen thus pulling aggro away from you when it ticks at improper time… Which shouldn’t be an issue anymore. They’ve removed all HoT enmity a while ago so only the initial ‘buff’ application generate the enmity.

On the topic of YPYT… you (general you) just need to press 1 (ONE) single button to pick up the aggro. Even if people do grab it earlier, most of them are smart enough to drag them into your AoE = Both side wins. What so hard about that? You trying to ‘punish’ them is quite possibly the major reason the group wipes, if it happens at all.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

This and regen queens.

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This is how some healers work. Regen the tank, DPS and top up with heals. Regen + Medica if required, more DPS. Or boredom, because the tank is actually good so you're just looking for something, anything, to do.

Aggro shouldnt, and rarely is, an issue if the tank is on their crowd control and/or the healer doesnt freak out. The same issue can easily appear with DPS in these situations anyway. You can interchange them, and is, again, largely down to crowd control.

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Originally Posted by HolyReign

OR

That Healer, could have waited the few seconds for that Tank, to grab aggro, then attack...

But yeah.

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Or the tank could just get over himself and aoe the mobs like any other reasonable human being with the emotional capability to not throw a tantrum over a regular dungeon lol.

When I'm dps/healing and having gone through like over a hundred of these dungeons at this point, shit just happens and you're just more used to running ahead and walling more often than having to stop-wait-stop-wait lol

When I'm tanking, the only way anyone is ever ahead of me is if they hit sprint right when I do and then use something like dnc or reaper gap closer to get ahead ^^ It should be in the Hall of Novice that if running a dungeon as a tank and anyone is ever ahead of you, you're doing it wrong. Just sprint and run till ya can't run any further, picking up everything along the way :) win/win for everyone!

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

If you are referring to what I think you are then this bugs me too. Also, there is an open area right next to us, but you're stopping in an enclosed space and these mobs have hard hitting AOE's or directionals that everyone is being smacked about by. Then they are surprised when the group wipes.

Another thing that bugs me are tanks who dont commit to their pull, they stop and start constantly, moving off again with a half damaged back of mobs. They do realise that a lot of DPS jobs have windows to use their bread and butter skills? Ive seen wipes happen because the tank couldnt commit to their pull and the DPS were down. Obviously thats only really a risk with packs who need to be taken down quickly, but still.

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I'm mostly referencing a situation like below, where the brackets are the mobs - which some usually have cone AoEs - and the A is the tank.

( A )

That makes it so much more annoying, because with those larger mobs, they do tend to spread out more, and things like Fan Dance III which is targeted, tend to miss a large portion, especially if those mobs are still jostling around.

If the tank did the below, it makes things 100000% better for AoEs

((A

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Originally Posted by Majatok

Again i wasn't using any mobility skills, i wasn't running ahead, and it would have been no issue for the tank to be faster, all they had to do was use their skills.
I got initial aggro because i used my dot first which has some range, if you know how "pulling properly" works you would know that the enemy group will start moving towards you and move closer together when you get initial aggro, since i was next to the tank all they had to do was use their aoe which they didn't.

I also don't know why you are talking about "healing while pulling" because this wasn't the issue here, again i died the first time because the tank didn't take aggro from me after we finished pulling and i died the second time because the tank walked right past me when i decided to stand still, so they could grab aggro from me.

I'm a healer main when it comes to dungeon roulette, i know how to heal and how to behave, and this is the first time i encountered this behavior.
I gave them the benefit of doubt first, but that it happened twice was a bit much. Their accusation of me "not healing" was also a bit irritating. Not only was it not true, but how can you expect others to do their job when you don't do yours?

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Not justifiying the tanks actions but this line ->"Reached the second group of enemies, healed myself a bit to stay alive, rest of the party arrived shortly after" gives the impression you were in front of the party. If you were with them the whole time then should have said that instead.

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Originally Posted by HolyReign

OR

That Healer, could have waited the few seconds for that Tank, to grab aggro, then attack...

But yeah.

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When it comes to pulling in dungeons. All anyone needs to remember is: The game does not care if a pull is accidental or intentional, being done for progression or harrassment. It is not capable of telling the difference.

The number of times I and/or my fellow tank have died to Living Dead during the WoL fight is silly. I usually only say things after a wipe since people like experiencing things blind and that's fine, but after blandly saying everyone needs to be healed to full for that, and still dying... that iddy biddy voice in the back of my mind is starting to think it's spite at this point. It gets more ridiculous when at least one healer is not new. REEEeeee.....

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Tanks need a couple swipes at each pack to get proper aggro, especially if DPS are already starting to hit the first. Sprint timing is also a thing. If you're jumping ahead and not stopping or falling back, it's not the tank's problem. If you're a healer running ahead of me, I'm already thinking of my report for when you decide to abuse rescue.

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Someone else taking a few hits for you before you grab aggro is literally an extra mit for you. YPYT tanks, making zero sense since 5.0

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

Someone else taking a few hits for you before you grab aggro is literally an extra mit for you. YPYT tanks, making zero sense since 5.0

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I only considered it Mit if its a lala :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I only considered it Mit if its a lala :rolleyes:

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I was joking around in uldah and we were talking about death is the best form of mitigation because it's a long lasting invul period that makes you immune to raidwides and tankbusters.

The first time I went through Troia actually looking forward to the head gear since Viera could equip the Caster and Healer ones, I was immediately slapped back into reality when I finally get a chest with the Scouting headgear and its...NOT F*CKING VISIBLE!!! *Flips table* COME ON DEV TEAM, GET IT TO TOGETHER!!!!

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Originally Posted by Soge01

The first time I went through Troia actually looking forward to the head gear since Viera could equip the Caster and Healer ones, I was immediately slapped back into reality when I finally get a chest with the Scouting headgear and its...NOT F*CKING VISIBLE!!! *Flips table* COME ON DEV TEAM, GET IT TO TOGETHER!!!!

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Can't Hear ya! Too busy making a new outfit or mount that is like $40. You know...priorities and all.

- The FFXIV Team probably.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I was joking around in uldah and we were talking about death is the best form of mitigation because it's a long lasting invul period that makes you immune to raidwides and tankbusters.

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https://i.imgur.com/beC5m6M.jpg

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

Someone else taking a few hits for you before you grab aggro is literally an extra mit for you. YPYT tanks, making zero sense since 5.0

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Extra bonus with Arms' lenghts or any other kind of party mitigation.

Reaper going ahead? Means free slow and health regen with its shield popped.
At lv90, i always expect dps to just hit mobs during pull, apply dots or such just roll the cooldowns

Just ran an Endsinger that made me want to die on the inside. It's just this massive struggle of res roulette along with eventually getting to the start of phase 2 where neither tank LB3s.

Then one healer goes afk before we try again, saying they'll be back. One of the tanks pulls early. Someone in the chat calls it an accident. I didn't see an accident. I saw a tank walk up to her and throw their enmity projectile. We eventually wipe, the healer that wasn't afk(other healer came back by then) leaves. They were the only sprout outside of my alt(which wasn't wearing theirs). People immediately start bad mouthing them in the chat and I call it quits. The healer that went afk was pretty bad but it wasn't really either healer's fault that most of the party was intent on collecting vuln markers due to not knowing the fight.

G'raha should be a Red Mage. He's a jack of all trades that can utilize black and white magick, along with being very handy with a sword and shield.

Alisaie can be something else more fitting that doesn't have her getting knocked on her arse so much.

Thank you to the Lich Trio which made this Level 90 Roulette a really enjoyable one.
I was the healer and we chitchatted along the way. A rare sight nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Extra bonus with Arms' lenghts or any other kind of party mitigation.

Reaper going ahead? Means free slow and health regen with its shield popped.
At lv90, i always expect dps to just hit mobs during pull, apply dots or such just roll the cooldowns

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Maybe you should just play an actual tank if you want to help mitigate so badly. You just described gunbreaker's kit.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Maybe you should just play an actual tank if you want to help mitigate so badly. You just described gunbreaker's kit.

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Maybe play more because really getting hit as a dps for 2 or 3 times isn't the end of the world for a tank or a healer especially in max level dungeons of each expansions.

So yeah, you should probably play tank more and just get those mobs, courtesy from someone who mostly plays tanks

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Maybe you should just play an actual tank if you want to help mitigate so badly. You just described gunbreaker's kit.

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Maybe you should realize other players using their tools and resources actively helps you. In the example stated above, the reaper is doing four things:

1. Using their hp, which is hp damage you as the tank are not taking, thus free mit.
2. Applying a slow to potentially multiple mobs, again free mit.
3. Saving you the use of a cooldown by popping their arms length, meaning you will have it for the next pull if needed (assuming your party is killing at decent speeds of course).
4. Popping a party-wide HoT, which is free healing for you.

The tank literally has to sneeze at enemies to pick them up. The tank has an extremely easy job in dungeons. Someone else pulling is not some horrible rude thing that's the end of the world. The tank literally only exists to soak damage and enable large pulls. They are otherwise unneeded in most dungeons. And like someone else said already, if someone's getting ahead of you, as the tank, you're probably going too slow anyways.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Maybe you should realize other players using their tools and resources actively helps you. In the example stated above, the reaper is doing four things:

1. Using their hp, which is hp damage you as the tank are not taking, thus free mit.
2. Applying a slow to potentially multiple mobs, again free mit.
3. Saving you the use of a cooldown by popping their arms length, meaning you will have it for the next pull if needed (assuming your party is killing at decent speeds of course).
4. Popping a party-wide HoT, which is free healing for you.

The tank literally has to sneeze at enemies to pick them up. The tank has an extremely easy job in dungeons. Someone else pulling is not some horrible rude thing that's the end of the world. The tank literally only exists to soak damage and enable large pulls. They are otherwise unneeded in most dungeons. And like someone else said already, if someone's getting ahead of you, as the tank, you're probably going too slow anyways.

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I just want to highlight how you're contradicting yourself. The tank is there to take damage. What are you doing taking it for me, when I take it better? You're not doing me or the healer any favors and you may as well be playing the tank if you so desperately want to take damage. You're messing with my flow, plain and simple.

We already had this discussion that I wasn't going too slow. We agreed on the number of GCDs required to secure aggro. People are just impatient. Too slow? You believe 3 seconds in a 90 minute lockout zone is too slow, but you also believe 3 seconds is also as much as is needed to secure aggro.

Are you high right now? Do you need to lay down?

https://i.imgflip.com/6vdtcp.jpg

I really love when these discussions pop up because I love to see who knows how to play a tank and who is a diaper baby. :)

Last night I was the problem. I decided to unlock Scholar from my Lv60 Summoner, did the job quests and decided to test it out in a roulette, hoping to roll something not too challenging to test it out a little. I rolled The Vault of all things, which made me die a little inside.

Told the group that it was my first time on Scholar, but main WHM so Im used to healing. It was a mixed run, went OK until the 3rd boss where I wiped us twice before getting a messy clear because I was looking at my hotbars and trying to grasp how the shields work.

Anyway, I want to give a shoutout to that group, especially our tank, for being patient, encouraging, and qhelpful party.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I just want to highlight how you're contradicting yourself. The tank is there to take damage. What are you doing taking it for me, when I take it better? You're not doing me or the healer any favors and you may as well be playing the tank if you so desperately want to take damage. You're messing with my flow, plain and simple.

We already had this discussion that I wasn't going too slow. We agreed on the number of GCDs required to secure aggro. People are just impatient. Too slow? You believe 3 seconds in a 90 minute lockout zone is too slow, but you also believe 3 seconds is also as much as is needed to secure aggro.

Are you high right now? Do you need to lay down?

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I don't see how I'm contradicting myself when I already explained the non-tank taking damage during a pulling period is extra mit for the tank. No one's "desperate" to take damage or tank, sometimes someone pulls ahead by accident, sometimes the tank is going too slow and someone pulls for them, either way it's literally not a big deal and healers have more than enough healing to deal with someone taking a few extra hits.

On your second point, I was speaking to the specific example of a reaper pulling ahead, I don't remember or care if that was your original situation (honestly all I remember is you saying you were thinking about reporting someone for using rescue on you), my point here was not targeted at you specifically. You might want to check your hostility, especially when you're displaying the "confidently wrong" mindset right now about tanking dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I just want to highlight how you're contradicting yourself. The tank is there to take damage. What are you doing taking it for me, when I take it better? You're not doing me or the healer any favors and you may as well be playing the tank if you so desperately want to take damage. You're messing with my flow, plain and simple.

We already had this discussion that I wasn't going too slow. We agreed on the number of GCDs required to secure aggro. People are just impatient. Too slow? You believe 3 seconds in a 90 minute lockout zone is too slow, but you also believe 3 seconds is also as much as is needed to secure aggro.

Are you high right now? Do you need to lay down?

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Have you played a DPS class?

Many DPS classes have resources that will overcap and therefore be wasted if left unchecked. Or a combo that will only let you move to the next step in X seconds.

You better believe the best DPS players will do what they need to in order to not waste resources or lose a spot in their combo.

We also in such situations aren't claiming the tank is slow. We expect that once the pull is completed that the tank will pull the enemy off of us if they haven't already. One DPS can survive being attacked by on enemy for the length of time it takes for a pull to happen.

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Originally Posted by Seera1024

Have you played a DPS class?

Many DPS classes have resources that will overcap and therefore be wasted if left unchecked. Or a combo that will only let you move to the next step in X seconds.

You better believe the best DPS players will do what they need to in order to not waste resources or lose a spot in their combo.

We also in such situations aren't claiming the tank is slow. We expect that once the pull is completed that the tank will pull the enemy off of us if they haven't already. One DPS can survive being attacked by on enemy for the length of time it takes for a pull to happen.

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I've played everything and I know all this. I know the combo timers. (I would comment more on this, but people are losing track of things even when I stay on topic :rolleyes: ) These are still poor excuses for jumping ahead, especially at the start. If there's a combo to finish, use it on the mobs that are already aggro'd and in a better bunch than the ones ahead.

I actually don't run into the problem of people pulling ahead very often because most people actually respect the tank and understand its purpose.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I don't see how I'm contradicting myself when I already explained the non-tank taking damage during a pulling period is extra mit for the tank. No one's "desperate" to take damage or tank, sometimes someone pulls ahead by accident, sometimes the tank is going too slow and someone pulls for them, either way it's literally not a big deal and healers have more than enough healing to deal with someone taking a few extra hits.

On your second point, I was speaking to the specific example of a reaper pulling ahead, I don't remember or care if that was your original situation (honestly all I remember is you saying you were thinking about reporting someone for using rescue on you), my point here was not targeted at you specifically. You might want to check your hostility, especially when you're displaying the "confidently wrong" mindset right now about tanking dungeons.

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I'm with you on this one buddy but you are talking to a wall at this point. Best to drop it from here and move on.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I've played everything and I know all this. I know the combo timers. (I would comment more on this, but people are losing track of things even when I stay on topic :rolleyes: ) These are still poor excuses for jumping ahead, especially at the start. If there's a combo to finish, use it on the mobs that are already aggro'd and in a better bunch than the ones ahead.

I actually don't run into the problem of people pulling ahead very often because most people actually respect the tank and understand its purpose.

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If I'm going to lose the combo/resource before the tank hits the enemy, I'm hitting the enemy. Regardless of whether or not the tank has aggro. That's not a poor excuse for jumping ahead. It's not like it's hard for tanks to pull aggro off of someone anymore. 99 times out of 100, the tank pulls the aggro of the enemy off before the end of the pull and no one died as a result and my health doesn't get low enough to require healing.

And I'm always behind the tank in dungeons so it's not like I'm out in the front either. I will stop and hold back if I do end up in front a tank. Even if I end up losing a resource or combo due to it. I can't survive the entire mob and the healer shouldn't have to heal both me and the tank.

Maybe they should've add the 4th role: "Puller" lmao.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Maybe they should've add the 4th role: "Puller" lmao.

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If the tank Arms Length was used recently...I'll try to pull at least one mob set as a DPS with my Arms Length and drag it to the tank for them to peel it off. If they don't...I can usually handle one set of mobs with bloodbath/2nd Wind

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Originally Posted by Soge01

G'raha should be a Red Mage. He's a jack of all trades that can utilize black and white magick, along with being very handy with a sword and shield.

Alisaie can be something else more fitting that doesn't have her getting knocked on her arse so much.

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Was this supposed to go in another thread? The hot takes one? :D

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Maybe they should've add the 4th role: "Puller" lmao.

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Call the role Yoink :cool:

Nah. Call it floor tank.