VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

As much as not every base game hair or Modern Aesthetics is my style I am happy to see Viera get more choices with every major patch. I don't particularly care for this new male Viera hair on any race but someone might and it doesn't look poorly implemented or unnatural. The momentum has been consistent and with this being the third batch I see no reason they'll stop until Viera can wear all the unlockable and base game styles.

Hopefully with the Hroth ear problem being resolved they can now start to add more styles... of course I honestly think they would be better off not treating Hrothgars like a human headed race and focusing their attention on making every racial exclusive hair work on every face shape. Those hairs suit Hrothgars, Karen hair #5 never will whether it has ears or not.

"Issue is it felt like you were insinuating that that's what we do. Celebrate when they do a tiny thing."

Well, text is hard.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Viera ears bounce a bit when you run (not sure if this is true for all types), but that's pretty much it. Do Hroth ears move at all? Ear physics would be so cool. ._.

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Not. As far as I know, Hrothgar's head doesn't have skeletons for the ears, which causes them to be treated as static things.

The Vieras, on the other hand, have these skeletons, which makes physics possible in them. It would even be possible to make moves with them in emotes, just like the miqo'tes have. But we're talking about SE, they're too lazy for that.

The solution would be to reshape the hrothgar's head so that their ears have these skeletons. But I've heard that this game has a limited number of skeletons per head, so I don't even know if that's possible.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

It's okay, I understand. This thread is long and I'm sure there have been myriad discussions about what the devs have and haven't said. I wish I had the quotes for myself but it was all a while ago now. Basically they said male Viera were made without restrictions in mind and female Viera were adjusted as well. Thus far we've only had one hairstyle added to the game and a gender locked one at that. It does function on Viera, however. I read a few pages back that the new styles are flagged for all races but Viera but the files also don't seem to be complete and this second male ponytail wasn't in the files at all. They seem to be two different hair files (rewards from Island Sanctuary) so I would be surprised if they were also gender locked. Who knows tho, gamemakers are weird.

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I remember it was said that male vieras where made differently and wouldnt have the same limitations as female vieras when it came to hairstyles. I however dont remember if it was in an interview or a LL. But I saw it in an official interview so not just burped out by some player saying it.

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

I remember it was said that male vieras where made differently and wouldnt have the same limitations as female vieras when it came to hairstyles. I however dont remember if it was in an interview or a LL. But I saw it in an official interview so not just burped out by some player saying it.

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Yeah, and with the addition that female Viera had been adjusted as well (which thus far holds true as they did get the Lyse hair on release - the very first hairstyle ever released to Viera at the same time as any other race). Sill, it wouldn't surprise me if something was lost in translation. At the time I definitely did not take it to mean male Viera would have no hairstyle limitations and clearly that's true because they were shipped with limited options just like the females. The fact that we haven't gotten a brand new hairstyle wearable by male characters since ShB makes it impossible to really know. If Viera get the new ponytails on release it's a pretty safe bet what they said meant that Viera would get newly patched in hairstyles at the same time as any other race. If not I have no idea what they were trying to communicate.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

The solution would be to reshape the hrothgar's head so that their ears have these skeletons. But I've heard that this game has a limited number of skeletons per head, so I don't even know if that's possible.

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You don't need to reshape anything, also every race has miqote ear bones it's part of the base skeleton, only elezen and lalafell use them though besides the obvious. I reckon it'd take an afternoon for a ystolha lofi chill asmr catgirl roleplayer to weight paint the ears, the bigger issue would be retroactively changing the animations to have motion which are probably just copied from roes for the majority of hrothgar anims.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

You don't need to reshape anything, also every race has miqote ear bones it's part of the base skeleton, only elezen and lalafell use them though besides the obvious. I reckon it'd take an afternoon for a ystolha lofi chill asmr catgirl roleplayer to weight paint the ears, the bigger issue would be retroactively changing the animations to have motion which are probably just copied from roes for the majority of hrothgar anims.

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Good to know that, I really don't know anything about 3D modeling and animations.

On the one hand, it's good, since, as I understand it, it won't take as much work as I imagined. On the other hand, it all depends on the S.E, so... well...

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Originally Posted by ArtyTheHrothgar

And there is a new hairstyle for Viera
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...81/unknown.png

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I do hope there is more than just that; something desirable. Otherwise I won't be using that. I like that more is still being made available. I haven't read through a lot of the threads since this morning, does the new hairstyle look to be made available for viera,?

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Originally Posted by ArtyTheHrothgar

And there is a new hairstyle for Viera
https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...81/unknown.png

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I have a fem Viera that might look good with the hairstyle shown on the male, so I hope it isn't locked to males or a single "gender fluid" style that changes depending on sex.

And I hope it doesn't come with that face. Yuck. Get that guy some dried pixie plums!

The short style shown on the male is a style available to both genders so I expect it'll be available to female and male Viera. Here it is on a female Lalafell.

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/b...20150116_3.jpg

The braids, however, are exclusive to female characters.

In 6.1 two hairstyles were shown in the patch notes just like this but we ended up getting 6 (3 base game and 3 Modern Aesthetics) for both Viera genders.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I do hope there is more than just that; something desirable. Otherwise I won't be using that. I like that more is still being made available. I haven't read through a lot of the threads since this morning, does the new hairstyle look to be made available for viera,?

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I mean, so far the new style added in Endwalker (Lyse's) works, so I presume that any hair from now on will.

As for those, they only showed one Viera-enabled style last time, but added 6 (corrected myself from above poster)... I'm also thinking they're just doing batches of 3 every patch.

"Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. II comes with a code for Matoya's Hat glamour!"
:)
"Which doesn't work on viera or hrothgar!"
>:(

I know we are mainly paying for the book here, but I would still like if things like this that you have to pay premium for worked on all races. And considering how huge the hat is, it shouldn't be that difficult to fit it on viera or hroths anyway. I honestly like the game and its lore, but it's getting exhausting to be constantly punished for playing a race I like the most (hrothgar). Fantasia'd to a roe with the free vial I got waaaay back in ARR, it's cool to wear hats now but my enjoyment of the game is taking a serious hit because this is not the character I love and went through the game with.

If I'm remembering right thus far the history of Viera hair additions has been:

6.0 female: Mid length fluffy with bangs
6.0 male: Emmanellain
6.0 Shared: Controlled Chaos, Gold Saucer ponytail, 2B, 9S, Lightning/Snow cash shop

6.1 female: Twin tails with bangs, mid length side part with half ponytail, long dreads, Lyse hair via cash shop update
6.1 male: Pippin's style, feathery short, middle part Hippie
6.1 Shared: Fashionably Feathered, Rainmaker, Both Ways

I don't love all of these hairstyles but I have seen people using all of them. 4 base game for each gender and 8 Modern Aesthetics + Lyse's for fViera and not counting today's patch notes is decent all things considered. In terms of hair selection Viera have already come a long way in a short time. Just have to be patient that everyones' favourite styles will be added eventually.

Huge thank you to SE for fixing the ears on the Hrothgar. Also, big thank you for continually adding hair. I know we have the Lyse hair, but I'd love the pretty ponytail that's already in the game. Preferably with the bangs being long - I know some hairstyles with Viera suffer with a larger forehead.

Either way, thanks again SE for listening to feedback and fixing it :)

>>> This ponytail:
https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...g/0420_004.png

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I mean, so far the new style added in Endwalker (Lyse's) works, so I presume that any hair from now on will.

As for those, they only showed one Viera-enabled style last time, but added 6 (corrected myself from above poster)... I'm also thinking they're just doing batches of 3 every patch.

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Yeah, I'd like to think that, but I just can't. Also, the Lyse style was a cash shop item, although it's not like they make much of the cash shop headgear available, regardless they definitely made more money from viera players who could use it specifically. There was a profit incentive there.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

Huge thank you to SE for fixing the ears on the Hrothgar. Also, big thank you for continually adding hair.

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Still barely the bare minimum for hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, I'd like to think that, but I just can't. Also, the Lyse style was a cash shop item, although it's not like they make much of the cash shop headgear available, regardless they definitely made more money from viera players who could use it specifically. There was a profit incentive there.

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In all fairness to SE they have added a number of modern aesthetics to Viera and only 2 of them are from the cash shop (and Lyse's is brand new and was cash shop exclusive for all races). This was also the very first Mogstation hair that has functioned for Viera on launch. It isn't like they're only porting hairstyles that cost real money to squeeze out all they can from Viera players. In fact, they've even added base game hairs so Viera players have more options from the get-go that don't even rely on in game rewards or gil. They absolutely could have focused on porting cash shop hairs first for monetary incentive. I know plenty of Viera players who would want Y'shtola or Minfilia's hairstyles but instead they have put much more attention on in game availability. I don't feel they've gone about the actual process of expanding the hair library in a stingy or backhanded way.

I'm still naturally as skeptical as you. I was a Viera throughout all of ShB and watched plenty of hairstyles get added while Viera and Hrothgar were told "be patient it'll take time". I hope the new ponytails work.

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Originally Posted by Rawr18

Still barely the bare minimum for hrothgar.

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Yeah. I mean, I'm glad to see that particular issue addressed, but it does absolutely nothing to sway me. They're gonna have to try way harder than that before me and SE are on even remotely civil terms. Until then, I will be giving them crap when and where I can.

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Originally Posted by SigmarrIrenesch

"Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. II comes with a code for Matoya's Hat glamour!"
:)
"Which doesn't work on viera or hrothgar!"
>:(

I know we are mainly paying for the book here, but I would still like if things like this that you have to pay premium for worked on all races. And considering how huge the hat is, it shouldn't be that difficult to fit it on viera or hroths anyway. I honestly like the game and its lore, but it's getting exhausting to be constantly punished for playing a race I like the most (hrothgar). Fantasia'd to a roe with the free vial I got waaaay back in ARR, it's cool to wear hats now but my enjoyment of the game is taking a serious hit because this is not the character I love and went through the game with.

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meanwhile, there are already mods to make this hat work on both races.

Community 1x SE 0

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Originally Posted by SigmarrIrenesch

"Encyclopedia Eorzea Vol. II comes with a code for Matoya's Hat glamour!"
:)
"Which doesn't work on viera or hrothgar!"
>:(

I know we are mainly paying for the book here, but I would still like if things like this that you have to pay premium for worked on all races. And considering how huge the hat is, it shouldn't be that difficult to fit it on viera or hroths anyway. I honestly like the game and its lore, but it's getting exhausting to be constantly punished for playing a race I like the most (hrothgar). Fantasia'd to a roe with the free vial I got waaaay back in ARR, it's cool to wear hats now but my enjoyment of the game is taking a serious hit because this is not the character I love and went through the game with.

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I know how you feel. I had to pick between feeling like myself but being denied part of the game or be someone else that was almost "me" but have access to everything. I have found loopholes though with alts but ofc....the best would be to get both worlds.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Aaahhh, if only. And even just looking at Miqo'tes...the guys have more expressive ears than their female counterparts.

Viera ears bounce a bit when you run (not sure if this is true for all types), but that's pretty much it. Do Hroth ears move at all? Ear physics would be so cool. ._.

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You know what actually DOES bounce alot on females? Their boobs. I actually noticed that when my viera bounced when I was taking a SS the other day. Her boobs move more than her ears. PRIORITIES SE!

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Originally Posted by Caro178

If I'm remembering right thus far the history of Viera hair additions has been:

6.0 female: Mid length fluffy with bangs
6.0 male: Emmanellain
6.0 Shared: Controlled Chaos, Gold Saucer ponytail, 2B, 9S, Lightning/Snow cash shop

6.1 female: Twin tails with bangs, mid length side part with half ponytail, long dreads, Lyse hair via cash shop update
6.1 male: Pippin's style, feathery short, middle part Hippie
6.1 Shared: Fashionably Feathered, Rainmaker, Both Ways

I don't love all of these hairstyles but I have seen people using all of them. 4 base game for each gender and 8 Modern Aesthetics + Lyse's for fViera and not counting today's patch notes is decent all things considered. In terms of hair selection Viera have already come a long way in a short time. Just have to be patient that everyones' favourite styles will be added eventually.

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I remember being quite annoyed with the release of those specific hairstyles since 1. some of them looked quite bad on viera and 2. I was worried that, that was all we were gonna get. But seeing this list has actually given me hope that they ARE working on making viera more equal to the other races.

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

You know what actually DOES bounce alot on females? Their boobs. I actually noticed that when my viera bounced when I was taking a SS the other day. Her boobs move more than her ears. PRIORITIES SE!

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because of things like that, I started playing as a male character, even though I'm a woman -.-"

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

You know what actually DOES bounce alot on females? Their boobs. I actually noticed that when my viera bounced when I was taking a SS the other day. Her boobs move more than her ears. PRIORITIES SE!

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"What the hell is wrong with your tits ears?! They ain't got no jiggle!" - Michiko Malandro
Sorry. Had to.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

because of things like that, I started playing as a male character, even though I'm a woman -.-"

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I honestly never noticed until now, since normally I am seeing her from behind but that was an awakening to how they prioritize. Their main feature should ofc have animations but they screwed up by making the ears all unique because now they would have to adapt any motion to 4 different eartypes.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

meanwhile, there are already mods to make this hat work on both races.

Community 1x SE 0

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For the millionth time modding=/=making it be fully on the live servers :p

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

I remember being quite annoyed with the release of those specific hairstyles since 1. some of them looked quite bad on viera and 2. I was worried that, that was all we were gonna get. But seeing this list has actually given me hope that they ARE working on making viera more equal to the other races.

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Counting from the ffxivcollect list there are currently 29 unlockable hairstyles (not counting those announced yesterday) and after major 2 patch cycles Viera can already use 9 of them. In a similar vein there are maybe 5 or 6 more "base game" hairstyles I expect them to add from the Miqote/Hyur/Lalafell page (high pigtails, the two long wavy styles, the basic ponytail, etc.) With 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 still to come and if they follow a similar pattern throughout we should get 5 or 6 new styles per cycle. I don't think I'm even being overly optimistic to expect Viera will be 90% on par with the other races by 7.0. in terms of hair.

Headgear is another can of worms, of course.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Counting from the ffxivcollect list there are currently 29 unlockable hairstyles (not counting those announced yesterday) and after major 2 patch cycles Viera can already use 9 of them. In a similar vein there are maybe 5 or 6 more "base game" hairstyles I expect them to add from the Miqote/Hyur/Lalafell page (high pigtails, the two long wavy styles, the basic ponytail, etc.) With 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 still to come and if they follow a similar pattern throughout we should get 5 or 6 new styles per cycle. I don't think I'm even being overly optimistic to expect Viera will be 90% on par with the other races by 7.0. in terms of hair.

Headgear is another can of worms, of course.

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I think we can forget about headgear until 7.0. At most they will keep adding more tiaras/facemasks and shrink whatever hat they can to fit on the front of the head. Doesnt mean we should stop asking for it, ofc.

Personally I can live with never having full headgear compatibility (I understand not everyone feels the same way and I fully respect all the complaints). I was not okay with never having hairstyle compatibility but thankfully SE did listen and while not every style is perfectly adapted to the race I don't even think every base game hairstyle is perfectly adapted to the races that have no restrictions either. There's a lot to be resolved everywhere. The customization in general is a mixed bag but different strokes for different folks. The game is always evolving and it is really hard to please everyone. Two things I really want to see for 7.0 that have nothing to do with Viera are all 4 face styles of Hroth having access to all racial hairstyles and horns no longer being locked to face shape on Au'ra.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

For the millionth time modding=/=making it be fully on the live servers :p

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change my mind then.

I see a lot of this type of comment, but never an elaboration of why.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

change my mind then.

I see a lot of this type of comment, but never an elaboration of why.

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You didn't ask me but I can definitely elaborate with a few points, the two big ones being:

1) Console players don't have access to third party tools. Plenty of people play this game on PS4/PS5 (myself included) and simply cannot use mods.

2) Mods are illegal. This doesn't bother everyone but I'm quite certain there are players who actively reject using third party tools because they're a breach of TOS.

The other justifications I can think of are more subjective but relevant nonetheless:

3) Other people (without mods) can't see your mods. It really sucks when you actively use character mods and also have to deal with the fact that the game and your character don't actually look the way they look to you to everyone else. It's an mmo and looking at peoples' characters and sharing your own is fun!

4) Constantly resorting to a "guess we have to fix it ourselves" mentality will never make SE implement the changes we want to see. The changes they make are largely based on player feedback and so feedback is what they need in order to focus attention where customers feel it's needed.

5) People just want to play the game and have the features we deserve as part of the game. The whole game that everyone can experience along with us.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

...

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yes true. But the point everyone talks about is: if random people can do this as mods, why can't the company do this as a patch?

None of these justifications answer this point, but they justify the differences between a mod and an official patch.

We're not asking for an outfit that modder X made, or hair that person Y made, etc. What we're asking is that the new helmets (at least) fit the races they themselves developed. We ask the same for the hair that SE herself did. And it's a shame they say it's impossible, as there are already mods out there proving it's possible.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Personally I can live with never having full headgear compatibility .

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Its never going to happen unless...
1)) They remake ALL of the headgear and put in Double the work for future gear to feature variants to fit Hrothgar Heads and factor Viera Ears
2)) They say ***k It, and let the bad Clipping run rampant.

In some cases #2 could work, but otherwise I dont picture some gear looking good with clipping and no quality control. But gear featured on a few people Signatures like the Redmage Hat would look fine.
And seriously, if i could have my way, id say not to stress about the old gear...but in return, make some unique Race gear to make up for it. Like the Hrothgar should have claws, theres no reason why they dont. But to make up for it they made some racial gloves that give you claws.
Id love it if they could make some new helms and other types of hats and headgear for the Viera & Hrothgar the same way they did that.

Id settle for making the headpieces (and hairs from mogstation and all nonrace specific hair) and all AF gear function for viera and hrothgar. If they are going to insist on job identity and charging alot for the glamgear, this only seems fair. I think that all long hats that would hide ears should be shown as well and the ears simply disappear. I would be fine with that too. I RARELY use hats anyway but I do love me some veils at times.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its never going to happen unless...
1)) They remake ALL of the headgear and put in Double the work for future gear to feature variants to fit Hrothgar Heads and factor Viera Ears

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False.

/10char

Hrothgar are really a whole other thing and I get the feeling that YoshiP/the dev team doesn't even really understand what the game's Hrothgar population wants. There was a strange case of lumping Hrothgar changes with Viera changes when the races have different problems and their players have different requests. Of course they answered these expectations in the laziest way possible. It was so bad they had to go back and fix it, lmao. I wish there was a way to vote or consolidate what hairstyles Hrothgar players want the devs to enable so they aren't wasting time on 5 new Karen hairstyles for 6.3. I'm pretty confident Hroths never wanted every catboy/middy base game hair option just with ears clipping through. I've seen a lot of interest in the Bozja mullet which makes sense and would actually suit the race. Simply making every hairstyle work for every face would be a huge and realistic step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

False.

/10char

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Are you saying they WILL make all full headgear compatible, without needing to remake any of the old gear to factor Hrothgar Heads and Viera Ears?
Because you are aware that many helmets were made and designed for human faces. They arnt gonna fit or look good on Hrothgar without some edits.
Also if they wanna make 100% sure every race, including Hrothgar can wear ALL future headgear, they need to design it so it would fit them as well.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

Hrothgar are really a whole other thing and I get the feeling that YoshiP/the dev team doesn't even really understand what the game's Hrothgar population wants. There was a strange case of lumping Hrothgar changes with Viera changes when the races have different problems and their players have different requests. Of course they answered these expectations in the laziest way possible. It was so bad they had to go back and fix it, lmao. I wish there was a way to vote or consolidate what hairstyles Hrothgar players want the devs to enable so they aren't wasting time on 5 new Karen hairstyles for 6.3. I'm pretty confident Hroths never wanted every catboy/middy base game hair option just with ears clipping through. I've seen a lot of interest in the Bozja mullet which makes sense and would actually suit the race. Simply making every hairstyle work for every face would be a huge and realistic step in the right direction.

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Unless I'm misremembering I believe after the whole no-ear thing blew up and everyone was mocking how bad it looked they did address it afterwards and didn't they ask what Hrothgar players want and said they would collect feedback on it? (which they probably should've done, like, 3 years ago but that's neither here nor there at this point.)

So they are kind of doing that, just way too late.

Looking closer at the image in the patch notes it also looks as though they may have warped the texture to create a parting where the ears come through? But I could be wrong as it's difficult to see. Nothing worth busting out the confetti for even if it's true but then at least they did do some work on it and didn't just flip the ear toggle back on.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Are you saying they WILL make all full headgear compatible, without needing to remake any of the old gear to factor Hrothgar Heads and Viera Ears?
Because you are aware that many helmets were made and designed for human faces. They arnt gonna fit or look good on Hrothgar without some edits.
Also if they wanna make 100% sure every race, including Hrothgar can wear ALL future headgear, they need to design it so it would fit them as well.

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No I'm saying you're spreading misinfo by saying all will need remaking.

Ears are not a factor, SE has acknowledged that when they released them clipping through the shadowless helmet.

Hrothgar may need some work, but there is literally nothing stopping them from enabling full face helmets, adding the missing hair deforms and enabling what WORKS.

A literal mcdonalds burger flipper could do this.

If case anyone is curious this seems to be the male equivalent of the braided pigtails style.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/lds/...g/0420_006.png

I actually really like this one. It has a studious and put-together vibe which is something currently lacking on male Viera. Here's hoping it looks good. The 5head level from this style is not bad on other races so it should be OK on Viera too.