OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

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Originally Posted by Kyomih

I assume you are referring to me. I am all for a good discussion, so instead of just implying I am an idiot why don't you discuss your opinion/experience in a more meaningful way and show me why I am totally wrong?

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Never called you nor implied that you were an idiot, don't put words in my mouth plz. And I said exactly what I thought. That I didn't know if you were being misleading or if you really believed that.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

I don't know if you are being purposely disingenuous or if you really believe all that, but a lot of that is just opinions, assumptions or just plain wrong. And no one said SCH is inferior to WHM, we said our aoe healing is. Stop shifting the focus of the discussion and stay on topic.

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You don't even know what the topic is at this point. You might just be whining about AE heals, but as others have pointed out, SCH has a strength in tank heals. It's called BALANCE.

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Originally Posted by Kupo_Nut

I just want Succor to have the double shield effect (as it should have been, since it's SCH unique ability) and stack with other SCHs (this is a horrible design mistake, and it should be corrected asap).

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Double shields aren't needed and they cheese mechanics. I don't want to cheese mechanics. I want to be functional with out my whm overlord shadowing me. My idea for succor to absorb previous succor would shore up our big gaping aoe heal hole in our kit nicely.

I'll repost my idea - Currently succor is 150 potency heal/shield which is fine for preshielding but useless once dmg has been dealth. What it SHOULD do it consume the previous succors shield and add that to the healing of the new one.

Cast succor for 200heal/200shield -> cast second succor becomes 400heal/200shield. But only adds healing based on the shields current strength. So cast succor 200s/200h -> took 100 dmg -> cast second succor 300h/200s. This would patch that big ass glaring hole in our kit.

Whm niche is burst healing and regens
Sch niche is dmg mitigation

Where in either of those does it say they should have big glaring weaknesses?

Succor is = to Medica 2, what's missing is medica 1.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

You don't even know what the topic is at this point. You might just be whining about AE heals, but as others have pointed out, SCH has a strength in tank heals. It's called BALANCE.

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Already debunked. And the topic is aoe healing. Whm are the ones coming in and derailing the thread. Please stay on topic everyone. Apollo can't keep up.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

Already debunked. And the topic is aoe healing. Whm are the ones coming in and derailing the thread. Please stay on topic everyone. Apollo can't keep up.

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It hasn't been debunked. Sticking your head in the saand and saying "this is about AE heals" does not preclude balance discussion that points out WHY one has better AE heal burst. A coil running SCH comes in and answers your question, and you stick your fingers in your ears and keep trying to make 1:1 comparisons and ignoring everything that doesn't suit your argument for MOAR BUFFS.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

It hasn't been debunked. Sticking your head in the saand and saying "this is about AE heals" does not preclude balance discussion that points out WHY one has better AE heal burst. A coil running SCH comes in and answers your question, and you stick your fingers in your ears and keep trying to make 1:1 comparisons and ignoring everything that doesn't suit your argument for MOAR BUFFS.

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And you digging your heels in the ground and taking the experiences of a few as the gospel truth w/o having any first hand experience yourself doesn't change a thing. You are being beyond small and petty at this point, you offer no info, experience or objective point of view. All you do is parrot SCH IS FINE THEY DON'T NEED BUFF THEY MIGHT TAKE MY RAID SLOT SO KEEP THEM UP!!

Petty.

And no one is asking for straight buffs, god why are whm's so damn dense? We need pet fixes and an aoe. That is it. Really guys. That's it.

I'll support pet UI enhancements, because it isn't particularly easy to use - although I don't think it matters much in terms of raw efficiency. The auto AI isn't horrific, at least not to the point where a good player is completely unable to synergize in tandem with it.

I still don't understand the issues with our AoE or shielding. We have benefits from precast - roughly equal to stoneskin, except scholars can use that cast a 10% stoneskin to get more pre-fight mitigation than a WHM (can't use regen). That gives scholars the clear edge on mob mitigation and aggro mitigation. The shielding, particularly on AoE is far less aggro due to the shields being half of the overall effect. The WHM is an aggro machine due to 100% of the throughput coming from HP heals rather than mitigation.

My Aldo is consistently 600-750 and Succor is consistently 300+. Far from useless.

I think scholars start off at a disadvantage with WHM initially. However, we grow at an exponential rate due to shield mechanics. The gap closes once you get to AF2 gear. Yes, it's still not the same but I don't think that's a particularly concerning issue. A scholar is there to make the WHM more efficient. Lessen the need for over heal (and as a result unnecessary aggro gen).

Whether or not sch/sch or whm/sch or whm/whm is all equal seems rather besides the point to me. The fact that sch/sch sucks doesn't raise the issue of balance to me at all. Whether or not you need a scholar is a legitimate conversation, much along the lines of the paladin vs. gladiator discussion. I personally like them for the group efficiencies. When played right, it should make the tanks job much easier and alleviate the over heal issues from WHM. That alone, is worth quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

Whether or not sch/sch or whm/sch or whm/whm is all equal seems rather besides the point to me.

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I agree, although i'm sure someone will point out that df means its entirely possible for two sch to end up in the same raid. Then again, if you are trying to use df to clear end game content i think that presents a different problem.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

My Aldo is consistently 600-750 and Succor is consistently 300+. Far from useless.

I think scholars start off at a disadvantage with WHM initially. However, we grow at an exponential rate due to shield mechanics. The gap closes once you get to AF2 gear. Yes, it's still not the same but I don't think that's a particularly concerning issue. A scholar is there to make the WHM more efficient. Lessen the need for over heal (and as a result unnecessary aggro gen).

Whether or not sch/sch or whm/sch or whm/whm is all equal seems rather besides the point to me. The fact that sch/sch sucks doesn't raise the issue of balance to me at all. Whether or not you need a scholar is a legitimate conversation, much along the lines of the paladin vs. gladiator discussion. I personally like them for the group efficiencies. When played right, it should make the tanks job much easier and alleviate the over heal issues from WHM. That alone, is worth quite a bit.

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In this capacity we behave more like a bard than a stand alone healer. I'd roll a bard if I wanted to buff someone else.

And how can you say that the fact sch/sch sucks doesn't raise balance concerns to you? ><

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Originally Posted by Eriane

I agree, although i'm sure someone will point out that df means its entirely possible for two sch to end up in the same raid. Then again, if you are trying to use df to clear end game content i think that presents a different problem.

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Right, the DF is clearly not used for end game content. Yoshi has even said that he wants to make the community talk to one another to clear the end game content. That means shouting in Mor Dhona for parties.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

In this capacity we behave more like a bard than a stand alone healer. I'd roll a bard if I wanted to buff someone else.

And how can you say that the fact sch/sch sucks doesn't raise balance concerns to you? ><

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Because you won't be rolling BCoB via DF. I also think sch/sch can heal through Titan HM - the last of the potentially DF-able fights. I'd say sch/sch is roughly equal in inefficiencies as whm/whm - just in different directions. The scholar duo lacks throughput and the white mage duo has too much. The two clearly benefit from each other.

If you need two WHMs spamming Med II constantly, I think your party has larger problems than the general lack of sheer scholar HP throughput.

I also wasn't aware that a bard could help a WHM manage his/her aggro or reduce the instance of over heal.

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The one legitimate point I think everyone can make is that the cross-class Scholar (E4E) and WHM (protect/stoneskin) clearly favors the WHM. E4E is freaking strong. Non-traited protect/stoneskin is barely a pimple of efficiency. You can also get non-traited protect from a paladin, so we are only talking about stoneskin. Stoneskin compared to E4E? It's not even in the same ballpark. It's a massive WHM advantage.

WHM gets one of our best mitigation abilities. We get one of their worst mitigation abilities. Very meh.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

And no one is asking for straight buffs, god why are whm's so damn dense? We need pet fixes and an aoe. That is it. Really guys. That's it.

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I haven't seen any disagreement with pet fixes. That issue is pretty much agreed upon. It needs to be fixed.

The issue of stronger AEs has been addressed by pointing out the different strengths/weaknesses of the two classes.

That you choose to ignore the reasons does not create an obligation to eliminate the differences.

Your criticisms that I don't have experience become a non-issue when you have coil running scholars telling you that you are wrong.

If you have 2 SCH and 2 WHMs, one of each will be benched. IF you have 2 WHMs and 1 SCH, a WHM will be benched. IF you have 2 SCH and 1 WHM a SCH will be benched.

Working as intended. The only time that you will have 2 WHMs or 2 SCH is if you have nothing else. That has nothing to do with class balance and everything to do with having no other choices.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

The one legitimate point I think everyone can make is that the cross-class Scholar (E4E) and WHM (protect/stoneskin) clearly favors the WHM. E4E is freaking strong. Non-traited protect/stoneskin is barely a pimple of efficiency. You can also get non-traited protect from a paladin, so we are only talking about stoneskin. Stoneskin compared to E4E? It's not even in the same ballpark. It's a massive WHM advantage.

WHM gets one of our best mitigation abilities. We get one of their worst mitigation abilities. Very meh.

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We get your virus too...(that sounds weird) Lol no i'm not being helpful i know. Yea even whm have issues with stoneskin and its better than its cross class version. The fact that we get two of the sch damage mitigation cross class skills is a little unfair.

But that being said it also points out that our skills in general tend to be a bit meh because of the raw healing. While scholars get more useful tools.

I'v read somewhere before initialy start playing that Scholars would be a healer/heavy support job and Whit Mages would be a healing class. Thats why I choose Scholars. I have no problem in beeing the support in a team (it's something someone has to do anyway), as a matter of fact, I realy enjoy it. I have no problem in beeing there to make the job of everyone easier, I have no reached the max level yet, but a 3 years healing experience in healing showed me that if its easy its boring. I personally dont care if Sucor is weaker than Medica, as long as it gets the job done w/o me getting completely oom, and by completely I mean completely, cause why the hell would you end up a fight with extra mana?!?! You could used that mana to make a safer fight to everyone shielding them up.

Thats just my opinion as a casual player.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

But that being said it also points out that our skills in general tend to be a bit meh because of the raw healing. While scholars get more useful tools.

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Good point. Virus with E4E is extremely potent. The only difference between the mitigation is Sacred Soil, which isn't exactly a wonderful spell (considering CDs vs. Aetherflow CD).

I can see why they don't give us the AoE heals from WHM, because that largely defeats the theory behind a SCH. I like how monks can cross class their healing buff. I like how WHMs can get our mitigation abilities, because they matter and are needed. If you are a WHM and you don't have Virus and E4E - shame on you.

I don't want WHMs to lose those cross-class abilities, but it does cause a situation where SCHs get shafted. Perhaps in it's place we should be able to pick 1-2 traits? You'd have to be careful with that since traits are potent stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kyomih

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You are beyond spot on for your description/explanation, unfortunately there are way to many reactive healers trying to play this class. It doesn't make you a bad healer it just makes you a bad scholar player. And we all get to suffer listening to these whiny fools when they could all do us this huge solid and unequip that grimoire they have in their characters hand and instead go get themselves a nice conjurer arm.

The conjurers/white mages are not derailing this thread, they are coming in & pointing out the huge flaws with the logic you keep using. Most of you playing a scholar should not be playing scholar.

I applaud those of you that keep showing these bad players that they are bad and they need to go play a different class/job.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

I don't want WHMs to lose those cross-class abilities, but it does cause a situation where SCHs get shafted. Perhaps in it's place we should be able to pick 1-2 traits? You'd have to be careful with that since traits are potent stuff.

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Honestly, i don't see why stoneskin isn't buffed to its traited potency so that sch can also have the 18% shield and give white mages a better trait. Or not even better just different. I suppose the reasoning is that stoneskin at 18% plus sch shields might be too op? No because sch and whm in a raid can do it. Fancy that.

Btw question: Does the sch single target shield stack with the aoe shield?

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Originally Posted by Eriane

Btw question: Does the sch single target shield stack with the aoe shield?

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No shields stack, a stronger shield will overwrite a weaker one but not vice versa. Usually its most effective succor/aldo instead of aldo/succor since the tank will likely take 300 damage between the cast times. However, you won't be screwing yourself out of efficiency too badly if you want to aldo/succor to mitigate tank damage upfront.

That's sometimes a better strategy when you know the AoE spike is going to hit everyone, including the tank quite hard. It'll buy you time to double up on a succor, if need be. Example being Mountain Buster into AoE on Titan HM. You really want to Aldo mitigate that one.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

Honestly, i don't see why stoneskin isn't buffed to its traited potency so that sch can also have the 18% shield and give white mages a better trait. Or not even better just different. I suppose the reasoning is that stoneskin at 18% plus sch shields might be too op? No because sch and whm in a raid can do it. Fancy that.

Btw question: Does the sch single target shield stack with the aoe shield?

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It has a pretty stiff cast time and cost... I wouldn't mind giving the SS trait to scholars and getting a different trait... maybe one that increased range of Cure 3 to make it actually worth casting...

Only reason i ask is that in most situations even a white mage isn't spamming medica all day, they really can't in alot of situations (mana, threat, overhealing). Rather they let medica 2 tick away and heal the damage combined with regen. Thats actually the reasoning as to why cure 3 is used rarely if ever if you have ever visited the threads on the spell. Its just not needed and too situational.

There are not many fights where the raid is taking such heavy damage so quickly that medica 2 doesn't have time to actually work. Purely from a whm perspective.

What im getting at is assuming a properly geared and competent raid. Ei dps not being dumb and taking avoidable damage... If medica 2 has time to work why can't two scholars and the two fairies work together to heal even if it means alternating fairy cooldowns or one sch using st heals.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

What im getting at is assuming a properly geared and competent raid. Ei dps not being dumb and taking avoidable damage... If medica 2 has time to work why can't two scholars and the two fairies work together to heal even if it means alternating fairy cooldowns or one sch using st heals.

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I think you are correct in the current game. It is possible that we will see other mechanics in the future that will act differently. There have been raid mechanics which, for example hit the raid for 90 percent health all at once.

Those are the situations that I can see Cure 3 would be viable, if the range was increased. Mechanics that force everyone down to a point where any other incidental damage could kill someone if they aren't healed up quickly.

Likewise, pre-shields could be incredibly important in those situations, if the mechanics didn't remove them, as they would buffer incidental damage to keep it form killing someone.

Just finished the main story (2xSCH, too) without any problems. A few times one DD went down after messing up avoiding the AoE, but that's about it. Looking forward to the next fights, and judging from people playing them, there should be no issues.

About the only time where I wished to have a stronger AoE is Aurum Vale's locksmith. And only because the fairy isn't affected by the fruit consumption (HUGE oversight, SE!), so you basically have to either heal alone once she dies, or resummon with swiftcast (which I couldn't try because we barely came through without the fairy). On Coincounter and Miser though, no problems healing. Stable HP. So I still see no reason why we would need a better AoE heal beyond making the class less dependent on the fairy.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I think you are correct in the current game. It is possible that we will see other mechanics in the future that will act differently. There have been raid mechanics which, for example hit the raid for 90 percent health all at once.

Those are the situations that I can see Cure 3 would be viable, if the range was increased. Mechanics that force everyone down to a point where any other incidental damage could kill someone if they aren't healed up quickly.

Likewise, pre-shields could be incredibly important in those situations, if the mechanics didn't remove them, as they would buffer incidental damage to keep it form killing someone.

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Sch is very useful in coil especially turn 4. Sacred coil is the game changing ability that allow tank to survive dreadnaught with buffs. my coil group we are running 2 WHMs at the moment but we are seriously looking into scholar to beat this encounter.

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Originally Posted by FinagleABagel

The one legitimate point I think everyone can make is that the cross-class Scholar (E4E) and WHM (protect/stoneskin) clearly favors the WHM. E4E is freaking strong. Non-traited protect/stoneskin is barely a pimple of efficiency. You can also get non-traited protect from a paladin, so we are only talking about stoneskin. Stoneskin compared to E4E? It's not even in the same ballpark. It's a massive WHM advantage.

WHM gets one of our best mitigation abilities. We get one of their worst mitigation abilities. Very meh.

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Yes, very true. I've been mentioning that in other threads before. The Cross-Class skills need another look at. However, I am a bit worried that full stoneskin plus the SCH shields will make it a tiiiny but too powerful? Probably not though.

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Originally Posted by Alu79

And no one is asking for straight buffs, god why are whm's so damn dense? We need pet fixes and an aoe. That is it. Really guys. That's it.

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This is not a WHM vs SCH fight. Why is it that it always has to come down to namecalling? I play both classes and love both (not on the same character though, at least not yet).
I don't recall anyone not agreeing with the pet fix issue and I think several people in this thread including SCH have been pointing out why giving you a stronger AoE would make for a horrible balance nightmare. You have a huge arsenal of mitigation skills, use them. If you are really so incredibly bothered by the AoE you should really rather play a WHM as your mean (and I don't mean that as an insult or attack but it seems you are more in favour of direct/reactive healing than mitigation/pro-active healing).

^ partly because people read the first post (which is hugely mistaking), then jump right to the newest page to cry foul of every single SCH out there. I can even dig out SCH in this thread trash talked other people with "L2P" and the like, lol.

Lets make it clear: not every SCH wants a straight AoE buff, but making a stacked SCH party less punishing. Between buggy AI and weak AoE, the least we want is canceling out each other's AoE when there are 2 of us in the same place (dont pretend like DF wasnt exist!). I'm fine with relying on a WHM in the same group, but another SCH doesnt improve the situation at all is just WTF game design.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

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Good point, yes.
I agree that the stacking is an issue and it has always been in games with such designs. I remember there is at least one class in any mmo I played who has this issue. It's a design problem because just making it stack normally would make it too powerful, especially since you don't get the hate two WHMs get with Medica II or our other AoEs and have the fairy healing on top. So it will take a whole lot of number crunching and design adjustment to fix this.

I remember having the same issue with Chanters in Aion since Mantras (the class' defining mechanic) didn't stack for the same reason.

I dont know. Blizz apparently find a way around shield stacking for WoW, or that game has too many healers the issue never truly surfaced. But being SE, I never expect them to perform on the same level as Blizz (both in service and game design philosophy) :\

I just find it funny here there are two SCH camps: one bitterly cries for a direct buff, disregarding class design and the biggest issue ATM: the pet AI& control; the other one flat out tells the another "L2P" just because they reached higher content, while conveniently forgets a healer is only as good as the group he/she is in. Most WHMs tend to tell SCH to "learn to play" though. They even try to teach us how to use shield "preemptively" ..... ugh.

people just like to hate on whm

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Originally Posted by kronpas

I dont know. Blizz apparently find a way around shield stacking for WoW, or that game has too many healers the issue never truly surfaced. But being SE, I never expect them to perform on the same level as Blizz (both in service and game design philosophy) :\

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I seem to recall disc shields not stacking, and disc priests having a weaker PoH than holy that they had to spam. Disc didn't have the group shields like scholars get- they just had PW Barrier... kinda like a stronger sacred soil. two disc did stack worse than two holies. The same problem existed there. Again, mana was less of a problem for disc, because of rapture, so they could spam a bit more and got a little added haste added with borrowed time. It actually wasn't much better in that game. The only difference was that you had to single target shield people and the shields were stronger. (With mana return on popped shields). Even there the proc on PoH shields would have the same issues as the group heal/shield here... except you only got ok shields on a crit, but here you always get the shield.

That is how it was back when I played, at least. Disc had a harder time refilling health if you didn't pre-emptively shield. they just had a wealer PoH to spam... while a holy had a stronger PoH, PW:Sanctuary, Renew, CoH, and the raid CD hymn. Holy was a TON faster at filling health bars there, too.

I'm far less annoyed by the differing AOE mechanics than I am by not getting leeches til 40... I'm guessing SCH's AoE abilities will never be the same as WHM's but later it will improve. I love SCH healing. I had every intention of being a career WHM in this game but I found CNJ snoozeworthy. My WHM is 34 and my SCH is 46. Eventually I'll do both but I struggle to maintain interest in WHM healing.

I love that there is a different way to do things in this game.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

Between buggy AI and weak AoE, the least we want is canceling out each other's AoE when there are 2 of us in the same place (dont pretend like DF wasnt exist!). I'm fine with relying on a WHM in the same group, but another SCH doesnt improve the situation at all is just WTF game design.

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Well if the add shield stacking, then WHM's stoneskin will stack as well, and people will prefer two WHM because of 2xStoneskin, both enhanced with traits, will be just too imbalanced compared to ours. And if they only allow shield stacking for SCH, the WHM will feel cheated. As I said before, allowing shield stacking is not the route to go, it just opens the door for more balancing issues.

I saw a suggestion by someone multiple times on this topic allowing to "absorb" the shield into additional healing points, so 200hp+200shield becomes 400hp+200 shield on second cast. Third is 400/200 again. So as long as the shields are up, you heal for whatever shield amount is still up. This shouldn't break balance too much, and would be in line with the unique scholar play style.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Stuff.

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The biggest thing about Disc priests was that the shields they could bestow on single targets were a lot stronger, comparatively, to their counterpart healer's direct healing than our basic Succor/Adloquium shields compared to WHM Cure and Medica, let alone the fact that they get additional ranks of Cures and Medicas which are even stronger with the counterpoint of being significantly more expensive. Our biggest problem is that our healing output is universally low, and only begins approaching WHM numbers when we crit - crit being a stat we see precious little of until you can socket it into Vanya gear, which most of us do not have.

We don't get any "stronger, but less mana efficient" heals for emergency situations the way White Mages do. We have to be ontop of our heals constantly, and even then there are fights where our output literally cannot compete with the incoming damage (hello HM Titan Stomps after Heart Phase, I'm glaring at you).

It'd be nice to either get some Physick/Succor II, have the base healing of Physick and Succor increased, or allow some sort of stacking / boosting interaction with our preexisting shields.

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Originally Posted by Vyserion

We don't get any "stronger, but less mana efficient" heals for emergency situations the way White Mages do. We have to be ontop of our heals constantly, and even then there are fights where our output literally cannot compete with the incoming damage (hello HM Titan Stomps after Heart Phase, I'm glaring at you).

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The point about stomps is debatable since multiple casts of succor shields get eaten with the iterative damage pattern of the stomps. You are correct in that you don't have the less mana efficient emergency heals. That is the traditional drawback of shields... you are a pre-emptive not reactive healer... so you have to stay on top of the shielding/healing or you are behind the ball and have a very difficult time "catching up".

"Catch-Up" is the reactive healer game, if you are playing it as a pre-emptive healer, it means the style might not suit your play style. If you get reactive AND pre-emptive healing, that isn't balanced. If you consider all your shields and mitigations as part of your output, then you can deal with the damage, as multiple people have posted Titan is doable with SCH x 2. The healing just looks very different than with a WHM or Whm x 2.

Iuno....as much as people are comparing and debating between SCH and WHM, Double divine aura + double medica II + double regen on all party members = WHM doesn't even have to heal for a good 5-8 seconds. I'm a WHM myself and with my other WHM counterpart in my FC, we have done this many a times. After we get all of our HoT's out, we both either bust out the sparklers and prance around a bit or troll our FC and spam Holy. I do think a 2x WHM wombo combo is OP.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

The point about stomps is debatable since multiple casts of succor shields get eaten with the iterative damage pattern of the stomps. You are correct in that you don't have the less mana efficient emergency heals. That is the traditional drawback of shields... you are a pre-emptive not reactive healer... so you have to stay on top of the shielding/healing or you are behind the ball and have a very difficult time "catching up".

"Catch-Up" is the reactive healer game, if you are playing it as a pre-emptive healer, it means the style might not suit your play style. If you get reactive AND pre-emptive healing, that isn't balanced. If you consider all your shields and mitigations as part of your output, then you can deal with the damage, as multiple people have posted Titan is doable with SCH x 2. The healing just looks very different than with a WHM or Whm x 2.

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You can only rely on pre-shield so much if the shield is reliable, but it.is.not. How many more times do I have to tell you a 150 potency shield on top of 3k HP is not so big of an advantage to trade for way weaker and unstackable AE?. No doubt there are skilled SCHs who are also lucky to have skilled DPSes who aint stepping on shyt during fight as companions, but they are too few and far between. Even though I told you I have been disc priest for the last 2 of 4 years playing WoW, you still want to say the style isnt suit me?


Disc priest DOES have shield, but its shields are extremely strong: an instant cast which adds at least 30% HP on top of player HP, a free shield popped when ANY of its heal crits (which is plenty, unlike this game, and STACKABLE to a certain cap), and another shield with cast time added in the last xpac. SCH is in no way comparable. I heard you played disc pri also, so level your SCH to 50, bring it to garuda and up to see how much the shield negates. The strongest tool in SCH arsenal isnt succor, its Adol and sacred soil. The rest is simply sub-par compared to WHM's equal. Heal on move? Regen. Single heal? Cure/cure2 do the job just as well.

I'm tired repeating the same over and over to you :\

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Well if the add shield stacking, then WHM's stoneskin will stack as well, and people will prefer two WHM because of 2xStoneskin, both enhanced with traits, will be just too imbalanced compared to ours. And if they only allow shield stacking for SCH, the WHM will feel cheated. As I said before, allowing shield stacking is not the route to go, it just opens the door for more balancing issues.

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Hard to say they're justified in feeling cheated if SCHs get the ability to stack shields when WHMs can stack regens as is, but that's another matter.

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I saw a suggestion by someone multiple times on this topic allowing to "absorb" the shield into additional healing points, so 200hp+200shield becomes 400hp+200 shield on second cast. Third is 400/200 again. So as long as the shields are up, you heal for whatever shield amount is still up. This shouldn't break balance too much, and would be in line with the unique scholar play style.

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I have agreed on this idea before.

More work for programmers, but less likely to be flamed by angry WHMs not wanting to share medica, despite the fact this idea is similar in function to medica ii->medica with less threat caused to the caster. Not as strong in healing output as the aforementioned combo, but that's alright as long as the AOE healing gap isn't as rediculously disadvantageous against a SCH as it is now.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

You can only rely on pre-shield so much if the shield is reliable, but it.is.not. How many more times do I have to tell you a 150 potency shieldon top of 3k HP is not so big of an advantage to trade for way weaker and unstackable AE?. No doubt there are skilled SCHs who are also lucky to have skilled DPSes who aint stepping on shyt during fight as companions, but they are too few and far between. Even though I told you I have been disc priest for the last 2 of 4 years playing WoW, you still want to say the style isnt suit me?


Disc priest DOES have shield, but its shields are extremely strong: an instant cast which adds at least 30% HP on top of player HP, a free shield popped when ANY of its heal crits (which is plenty, unlike this game, and STACKABLE to a certain cap), and another shield with cast time added in the last xpac. SCH is in no way comparable. I heard you played disc pri also, so level your SCH to 50, bring it to garuda and up to see how much the shield negates. The strongest tool in SCH arsenal isnt succor, its Adol and sacred soil. The rest is simply sub-par compared to WHM's equal. Heal on move? Regen. Single heal? Cure/cure2 do the job just as well.

I'm tired repeating the same over and over to you :\

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This isn't WoW, this is FFXIV.

You're neglecting to mention that disc priest in WoW has been so overpowered for years that the only reason to bring a holy priest to any form of group setting, was if you were doing 25s and already had at least 2-3 disc. And as holy, you weren't selected in place of a paladin (they had more absorbs + huge tank heal) and druid/now monk were better for aoe.

I'm sorry but no healer in this game should be as imbalanced as wow disc priest have been. The rest are fairly balanced, but obviously some were weaker (holy priest and shaman). Those 2 are niche healers, which sucks when it was your favored class/spec.

I'd hate SE to take the same route and make either WHM or SCH so ridiculously overpowered as Blizzard did, and it sounds like that's what you're asking for. WHM/SCH have excellent synergy, which seems to be the design. That's the way I love it personally, I hate homogenization and I hate one being so much better than the other that it causes stacking.

If the SCH isn't working out as SE wanted, it will be changed. SCH wasn't even available for testing in beta so we don't know how well tested they were prior to release, which was only a month ago. Give them time. Maybe they're weak and if that's the case, SE will address. I think there's a fine line with absorbs between under/over powered and I hope SE can get them there.

I'd love to try SCH, but I despise pet classes ♥

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Originally Posted by fanservice

Hard to say they're justified in feeling cheated if SCHs get the ability to stack shields when WHMs can stack regens as is, but that's another matter.

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The difference is, when regens stack and the health bar is full, its just generating threat. Shields raise effective health. You can't really tell me you think thats okay. While i certainly understand the frustration in shields just overwriting each other stacking them is not the answer.

Raising effective health by double with stacked shields would cause imbalances in clearing new content and the game in general. You can't really compare it to regens stacking. Healing is healing, and over healing causes threat. There would be no downside to shield stacking. It would be too powerful.

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Originally Posted by Itchyness

Iuno....as much as people are comparing and debating between SCH and WHM, Double divine aura + double medica II + double regen on all party members = WHM doesn't even have to heal for a good 5-8 seconds. I'm a WHM myself and with my other WHM counterpart in my FC, we have done this many a times. After we get all of our HoT's out, we both either bust out the sparklers and prance around a bit or troll our FC and spam Holy. I do think a 2x WHM wombo combo is OP.

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Well, I am not sure we are talking about level 46 content here...