random Duty Finder groups - Square Enix attitude solution INC

nope, id rather just be extremely toxic and screw with people... #tanklife

Awful idea. Things are not always the fault of the people they seem like.

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Originally Posted by Crica

First of all, EVERYONE who plays nice with random strangers will get the points, so no, they are not ignored

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Exactly the people who want to play with random strangers.

SE even says it on their site: Take part in an epic and ever-changing FINAL FANTASY as you adventure and explore with friends from around the world.

So how can we explore and play with friends if SE is saying "oh but you can't do DF's together if you want 'X' points and 'X' items."

Or maybe what they say about Free Company's on their site: Free companies are adventurer-run organizations which serve to facilitate cooperation between individuals.

Great we can cooperate and help one another, but just know that there will be in-game items that those players who want to use a FC for what it's suppose to be used for won't get as easily because they aren't constantly running with strangers.

That doesn't also count the people who might have a static set up, or people who joined under the believe that they would be able to access everything the game had to offer by doing it all with their friends. In short to me it feels like they are saying, they support building communities in this game and have given us the tools. But when it comes to instance/dungeon runs where you have to use DF (which is pretty much every major part of the game) they don't matter as much as doing it with random people you don't know.

Giving gifts to bad people to control them doesn't make them better people. It shows them they can abuse the system and players to get what they want in the end. And as someone else said, are vanity items really going to tide them over? How long before they don't care. This isn't a fix, it's a band aid.

Instead, you should have to rate the collective performance of the rest of your group.

Someone beat you at a roll? ratedown
Healer said afk and you pull and die? ratedown
Somebody's first time in an instance? ratedown
Someone accidentally agros a trashpack? ratedown

I think you see where this is going...

People are not all naturally nice. Most aren't, as can be seen from the current dungeon finder. I can't imagine how this is going to fix anything.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

So how can we explore and play with friends if SE is saying "oh but you can't do DF's together if you want 'X' points and 'X' items."

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the same way you do it in real life - you go help out random strangers ONCE IN A WHILE and do things with your friends the REST OF YOUR TIME...

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Originally Posted by Steeled

People are not all naturally nice. Most aren't, as can be seen from the current dungeon finder. I can't imagine how this is going to fix anything.

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I agree. Seeing how fast people go though content how long before they play nice long enough to get everything and/or don't care about such items and go back to how they were? It's not a fix.

And telling people 'you have to do it this way or you're missing out on content items' isn't letting players play the game the way they might want. It's forcing them to play a way they might not be comfortable or miss out on content.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Instead, you should have to rate the collective performance of the rest of your group.

Someone beat you at a roll? ratedown
Healer said afk and you pull and die? ratedown
Somebody's first time in an instance? ratedown
Someone accidentally agros a trashpack? ratedown

I think you see where this is going...

People are not all naturally nice. Most aren't, as can be seen from the current dungeon finder. I can't imagine how this is going to fix anything.

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way to ignore the OP... no downrating involved...

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

It's forcing them to play a way they might not be comfortable or miss out on content.

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if you decide you dont want to help out random strangers, then you should not get anything that comes from helping out random strangers...

kinda common sense...

its the same for everything in game...

if you decide you dont want to fight garuda, then you should not get anything that comes from fighting garuda...etc...

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Originally Posted by Crica

the same way you do it in real life - you go help out random strangers ONCE IN A WHILE and do things with your friends the REST OF YOUR TIME...

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It is obvious that we see this from different point's of view, and there is nothing wrong with that.

But when the DF was first announced I told people on the forums that this would happen and supported an anti-community attitude. Now look what has happened.

All i'm saying now is this is a temporary fix, a band-aid and everyone that I know that I have spoken too really doesn't like the concept behind it. These people who treat others this way are all about the 'fastest time' or the armor or the items that will improve their characters. They are spamming these DF's constantly. Are they really going to care about vanity items that do nothing for them? And if they do, how long of 'playing nice' do you think it will take them to get everything. Once there is nothing else to get do you really think they will continue playing nice without a reason? This will either fix it for a short time or not really do anything to help the issue.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

All i'm saying now is this is a temporary fix, a band-aid and everyone that I know that I have spoken too really doesn't like the concept behind it. These people who treat others this way are all about the 'fastest time' or the armor or the items that will improve their characters. They are spamming these DF's constantly. Are they really going to care about vanity items that do nothing for them? And if they do, how long of 'playing nice' do you think it will take them to get everything. Once there is nothing else to get do you really think they will continue playing nice without a reason? This will either fix it for a short time or not really do anything to help the issue.

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then dont help out random strangers if you dont want to, i dont see the issue of SE trying to help rather then do nothing

personally, im going to continue to use DF - im not as lucky as you seem to be and dont have friends online everytime i am, so when i would like to run group content when no one i know happens to be online, the DF is a great way for me to be able to do so

and with the feature, it will be an incentive for ppl to play nice in order to get points

and if not, i will still use the DF cuz i have yet to run into anyone that i can not simply ignore and continue to run the dungeons anyway (or I just afk till the nerdrager decides to leave lol... i have two accounts, i just play my second one when that RARELY happens)

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Originally Posted by Crica

if you decide you dont want to help out random strangers, then you should not get anything that comes from helping out random strangers...

kinda common sense...

its the same for everything in game...

if you decide you dont want to fight garuda, then you should not get anything that comes from fighting garuda...etc...

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I hope I don't come off as rude and maybe you're not doing it on purpose... It seems to me that you are nitpicking my posts to prove a point instead of addressing the overall picture. You keep taking little snippets of the same post, reblogging just those parts, and only responding to that small piece. The overall point is that this is a temporary fix, and the only way bad attitudes will stop is if SE doesn't coddle the bad players and try to give them treats to be good. They need to tell them this attitude will not be tolerated and measures will be taken otherwise.


In the end SE is going to do as they like, and we will see how it comes about. All I know is if I coddled my student's when they didn't do their homework, or rewarded them to stop acting out in class and being rude, my classroom would be a mess and my student's would know they could walk all over me. That is not a position I would want to put myself in.

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Originally Posted by Crica

personally, im going to continue to use DF - im not as lucky as you seem to be and dont have friends online everytime i am, so when i would like to run group content when no one i know happens to be online, the DF is a great way for me to be able to do so

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It's not about having them online all the time. Sometimes I wait days and set things up. I make it work so I can be with my friends and help them, and I'm not in a rush to finish things. I would rather wait a few days and do it with my friends, and help and support them. Than rush though it and have to deal with this whole bad attitude DF mess. I don't know what else to tell you... will it help for a while? Maybe. Will it fix the issue? Most likely not. I'd rather SE put the time and effort into something that will fix the issue and not something that will tide it over for the time being.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

All I know is if I coddled my student's when they didn't do their homework, or rewarded them to stop acting out in class and being rude, my classroom would be a mess and my student's would know they could walk all over me. That is not a position I would want to put myself in.

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i cut posts and reply to things i HAVE a reply to, was obvious to me... /shrug

and your students are outnumbered, thats why they dont act up =P (IE most students WANT to play by the rules)

try teaching in ghetto schools.. they are not outnumbered there and they DO act up... (IE most students DONT WANT to play by the rules)

in DF, no one is really outnumbered, since ONE player can troll the majority

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

Sometimes I wait days

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the DF is so ppl like me dont HAVE to wait days in order to play group content for a game i pay to play....

its a very helpful tool for me, i get to play when my friends are online AND when they are offline!!!'

woot!

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

I'd rather SE put the time and effort into something that will fix the issue

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if you knew how to make sure everyone played nice with each other, there would be no wars and peace would rule the world... please do share!! lol...

trying to help is ALL anyone can do...

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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Will there also be a "naughty list"? What if a player queues up with less than a full party; will people that joined with you then be able to vote for you?

Oh god, it's LoL's honor system. People will speedrun through a dungeon and say, "MVP please. MVP for all."

I don't really think this will really solve the problem, Camate. If all of these rewards are cosmetic like companion armor and such, players will stop caring as soon as they get what they want or they won't care to begin with. The players that are considerate never needed something like this to encourage them to play nice.

It's a nice gesture, but griefers are probably still going to do what they do.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

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I gotta say. I don't like this. I mean, I see why you would want to reward people for being voted on as being nice and all, but this completely excludes players who pre-make parties on their own servers now, from obtaining these specific items as quickly as a random joe schmo who wants to queue up by themselves and wait forever (if they are a dps job). Healers and Tanks will be able to take advantage of this system exclusively, if they act helpful and friendly far quicker than any DPS class that does the same exact thing. This is not a good thing. It is not as good as it sounds in theory.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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I'm sure the devs thought of this.. but I want to say it anyways.. lol

This system will promote more people to use the DF- since these items cant be gained through premades. It may for general people increase friendly play- but there will be some people who still wont care, and it only takes one. I hope SE has considered this one person and how to handle that one person. Since again, it only takes one for all the 7 other players (or in case of crystal tower, all the other 23 players to have a horrible time). At least previous threads have shown that SE doesn't have a stance against players who purposely ruin runs- not saying there needs to be bans but something should probably exist else the positive change might be less than expedited. (placing significant lock out timers for reruns on dungeons that were afk'd, such like that)

Hopefully you can have that other system in place with this one at the sametime- the one that would reward you for joining content that needed players or a particular class. Since I can imagine the ratio of classes will maintain and DD will be waiting even longer for groups to farm this currency. When perhaps if given the option they would help players do lower level content so long as they can "farm" the currency. When there is a request for a job the player hasn't leveled yet there should a notification recommending you to level it lol.


Is there a snurble mount in the list? ;P

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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Can I buy my path partner back with the points?

"Oh, you are that guy that didnt vote on me last time we cleared this dungeon! Explain to me why I shouldnt leave right now and queue up with another group in 2 min because I am a tank."
"Vote for me or you go to blacklist"
"Vote for me or I'll wipe us right now"
"Vote for me or I will need on the weapon (although I already have got a far better one equipped)"
Bots voting on each other (easily done: the bots spit out an ID string that the other bots understand)

I am predicting that we will see these things happen pretty fast. I'm not psychic, but I'm not naive neither.

Yeah a duty finder "ranking" would be cool.. that way you would have some warning for how experienced, well respected someone is ... but yeah this also totally excludes non DF players... not sure how you get around that.

Hmmm... MVP Gear and abilities maybe... I wonder if they will add an Item Level sync for current areas (like CM, Praetorium, WP, and AK), syncing the gear stats down to like 'max 80'...?

SE is trying to be a decent company during indecent times. I like this MVP system, but I'm afraid it's only a half-measure.

Till we have a way to deal with players, who's clear intent is abusing DF and the groups formed therein, problems will continue.

That being said, MVP sounds like a nice reward system that will require more than just grinding mindlessly.

I'm quite worried of people who "try too hard" and that some of these gears will be unavailable for you if you're just the average person. I know it's vanity, but hey, vanity is quite high up there in my want list. I mean people even bought CE.. I can also foresee "vote sellers". I dunno man, don't think this is such an amazing idea..

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Make repairs purchaseable with mvp tokens and this would work

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so much this lol.

I hope the stuff isn't only obtained this way, because while that certainly does encourage using the Derpy Finder and not being a prick, it doesn't encourage the basic principles behind a MMO... You know... How you find friends and play with them? I really have no reason to ever touch Duty Finder solo, but unless I do I don't get this stuff? Gee thanks for encouraging me to play with my friends...

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Originally Posted by anceru

snip

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wtf is this?
1)first of all have you ever played with a random twice? and have you remembered their names? and you won't know who voted for you or didn't since it's at the end of the run.
2)you cannot blacklist crossserver
3) you cannot gain MVP until the end of the dungeon, so if you pull that crap you won't get MVP since dungeon will be over.
4) again MVP vote is at the end.
5) you cannot vote MVP with the people you queue up.

you really should read the info before "predicting"

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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This doesn't sound like it'll work as intended. Any system that offers publicly visible rewards will be abused left and right.

Why not have something similar to what XBox Live has? After the dungeon you can bring up a list of the people who you were teamed up with. You give them either a thumbs up or thumbs down, and if you give them a thumbs down the duty finder won't put you in a PT with them again. Information would not be publicly accessible. Virtue is supposed to be its own reward, right?

While I understand the good intentions of this system, I think it's just going to lead to further abuse from players, especially tanks and/or healers that can hold the group hostage to give them good votes since they basically hold the fate of the group in their hands. I'm not saying this will become commonplace, but there certainly seem like there are enough bad apples out there for this to be a daily topic on the forums.

What SE needs to do is take a stronger stance on the Harassment reports that people make. SE reps have flat out said that people AFKing in dungeons are not against their terms of service. THAT is what they need to fix.

You can't vote MVP with the people you queue up? Does that mean if I go with 3 premade and one random I'll have to vote the other person by default? That's interesting, where did you read that?

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Originally Posted by Orophin

While I understand the good intentions of this system, I think it's just going to lead to further abuse from players, especially tanks and/or healers that can hold the group hostage to give them good votes since they basically hold the fate of the group in their hands. I'm not saying this will become commonplace, but there certainly seem like there are enough bad apples out there for this to be a daily topic on the forums.

What SE needs to do is take a stronger stance on the Harassment reports that people make. SE reps have flat out said that people AFKing in dungeons are not against their terms of service. THAT is what they need to fix.

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I dont see how the hostage scenarios are feasible, voting logically would be at the end- and anonymous. Doing it any other way would be silly.. lol

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Originally Posted by Sotek

I hope the stuff isn't only obtained this way, because while that certainly does encourage using the Derpy Finder and not being a prick, it doesn't encourage the basic principles behind a MMO... You know... How you find friends and play with them? I really have no reason to ever touch Duty Finder solo, but unless I do I don't get this stuff? Gee thanks for encouraging me to play with my friends...

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I've been saying this for a while on this thread... this isn't a fix it's a bandage. It won't help, now people can say 'well if you don't vote for me then I won't beat this boss or do this run'. It could bring on a whole new form of harassment.

Or what happens when these people have everything they can get or want, SE will continually have to add new items, time that could be better spent on adding things into game that betters it as a whole.

Also as you said this game is supposed to be about creating communities and playing with your friends, and this essentially (much like duty finder) supports an anti-community attitude.

SE will do what they like, but in the end I doubt it will fix the problem. You don't fix a bad attitude by giving bad people rewards to be good. You let them know that attitudes like that will not be accepted and do what you need to do to punish them. If that means putting strikes on peoples accounts and not letting them into DF (which means no dungeon runs) for 'x' days, then so be it. That would fix peoples attitudes or get them out of the runs where they are abusing people.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I dont see how the hostage scenarios are feasible, voting logically would be at the end- and anonymous. Doing it any other way would be silly.. lol

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Yeah... If someone demands I vote for them at the end or they wont heal/tank, I'll gladly say "Sure" and not vote for them based on that behavior alone... I really don't get how anyone is going to abuse this system in such a way...

So be nice until I buy everything I can buy with MVP? Got it!

Or maybe its better to continue being a dick for faster gear progression then worry about MVP once Im done since there is no downvoting. Guess it depends on what I can buy with MVP.

Ok no not really but this isnt a solution. Itll help, I guess, but aholes get their joy from being aholes. It gives their pathetic life meaning. This isnt going to stop most of them.

What we NEED is a huge cross server blacklist that blocks accounts, not characters. In other words, Blisting 'Jerk Ahole' from X server, will block every single character in Jerk Ahole's account from ever being matched with you, or anything else he/she might type.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

I hope the stuff isn't only obtained this way, because while that certainly does encourage using the Derpy Finder and not being a prick, it doesn't encourage the basic principles behind a MMO... You know... How you find friends and play with them? I really have no reason to ever touch Duty Finder solo, but unless I do I don't get this stuff? Gee thanks for encouraging me to play with my friends...

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Soooo use it? You going to complain about PvP gear too if you dont PvP? There are many ways to get many different things in this and many other games, theyre not going to stop giving it because someone doesnt want to participate in it. This may even get a bigger player pool in the DF ... including more tanks/healers who are more likely to stick with FC because of their high demand. Might be a better idea than I originally thought, actually.

MMOs arent for friends only, btw ... its a community. No where does it say its "basic principle" is to stick with your static group nor should it encourage it either.

I foresee a lot of people being overly friendly to the point of being obnoxious hoping to get voted on, or a lot of healers getting voted on because nobody was friendlier than another so I'll just vote on the guy that helped everyone the most without saying a word.

Ya, a better concept would be a "contribution" output that's shown after an event ends which showcases heals and dmg done by the party members. If a party member falls under the treshold to be worthy of the reward they obtain nothing. So say in CM or the final dungeon for story a person stays at the start an accumulates no dmg or healing throughout the encounter. Because of this they would obtain no tome rewards because they did nothing to contribute to the party.

Of course people have to go afk at times so for that there could be 2 stages,
50% reward and 100% rewards.

In terms of CM and the last dungeon the 50% reward could be obtained by at least helping with half the dungeon so while yes leechers may still exist to an extent, if said leechers want the full reward then they might as well help the whole way.

100% will be for those who help throughout the whole dungeon and pull their weight but done in such a way where the overall battle output would allow for each player to gain 200% of the 100% they need so as long as they help the whole way there is no issue.

But then they could also add caps to each stage so a person can't accumulate 100% through some exploit such as 25% at the first part, 50% midway, 75% near the end and the rest gained through the final boss fight.

This would encourage people to actually play, the MVP system does nothing more than add another troll concept because said trolls can be like, nah I'm not voting for anyone but beg everyone to vote for them, of course they won't and then snarky remarks and negative communication will occur and it just in the end doesn't help the situation.

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Originally Posted by Kayo

What we NEED is a huge cross server blacklist that blocks accounts, not characters. In other words, Blisting 'Jerk Ahole' from X server, will block every single character in Jerk Ahole's account from ever being matched with you, or anything else he/she might type.

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I suggested this as well and I think it's a great idea. If 'X' is being rude every run and tons of people Blist them this its they fault they have to wait longer to get into DF's.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone!

I'd like to give a brief official overview of the "MVP" system that was announced by Yoshida during TGS, as there is a lot of interest in how this will encourage players to be positive and helpful when using the Duty Finder.

This system is for groups that get matched in the Duty Finder and cannot be used when you pre-make parties to enter dungeons and other content. Once you clear the content, you'll be able to vote for a player you feel was helpful, positive, and friendly.

Accumulating these points will allow you to buy companion armor, new mounts, and other exclusive items.

This system is scheduled to be implemented in patch 2.1, and once further details have been finalized we will be sure to share them with you!

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I personally NEVER use DF but this change is absolutely fantastic! Thanks so much!