Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

Whether AOEs CAN be dodged or not is irrelevant at this point. The fact that what you see on screen does not accurately represent whats going on is the problem.

Imagine your boss told you to come to work at 8am. You show up promptly at 7:50am, only to be reprimanded for being 5 minutes late.
You'd complain, not because you are incapable of getting to work 15 minutes early, but because if he wanted you there at 7:45, he should have said 7:45.

That's all we're saying. If the AOE circle and casting bar REALLY end a second before the screen says they do, then SE has failed. Case closed

(By the way... that was the best FFXIV delay analogy you'll ever see)

---

Agreed. Everyone saying they learned to preempt his abilities are verifying the fact that the animations are off by a small length of time of anywhere from 0.5 to upwards of 2.0 seconds.

When I finally completed Titan Story mode just a few minutes ago, the thing I had to do was heal, then move, heal, then move so that I was ready if he faced me. Otherwise, I would get hit all the time. There was one time where I got hit and went sliding the complete opposite direction to his ground attack(don't know the name) where he faces you. If that isn't animation lag, then I must really have it bad :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydiah

I'm curious as well, what do they have to gain by saying there's no problem?

---

its really quite disturbing to think a company would pay people to try and cover up the games problems posing as normal players, maybe if they could redirect that budget to some decent programmers and GMs instead we would have a decent game

I know for a fact other bosses are very laggy. You can accuse me for my "Bad" reactions but I have been playing competitive Street Fighter for years and anyone who know what that entails you must react on hit confirms and time links within 1 frame. The AOE's on certain bosses are extremely ambiguous and even when you make it out of the red zone will sometimes get hit.

It's not just Titan, it's everything, and apathetic, stuck up players are being trolls to people that have the issue when they don't Something SE has done in the process of updating the servers caused this, it was NOT happening before they opened more worlds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SionDurant

It's not just Titan, it's everything,

---

My lowlights just from yesterday include:

AK - Final boss - The massive AOE attack killed me... while I was standing with the group, perfectly behind the back-right statue. My corpse was actually in the only "safe" spot on the map.
WP - First boss - The goobbue's red circle nearly always hits me, no matter how quickly and far I move away from the red circle.
CM - First boss and all magitek armor trash - Magitek Cannon attack regularly hits me even if I move out of the circle.

It's a pretty significant problem. The server should be checking your position with the client whenever it needs to decide if you took damage, not just guessing based on polling data that occurs in intervals.

I have no problem to hide from AoE. But I see a lot of scrubs that stay and when they red AoE circle comes, they still stay there like 1-2 sec then they run but then the AoE make dmg on them.

Be quicker.

another reason as to why 1.0 was remade... was, because of this very same issue... lag/latency.... oh look they didnt fix shit from 1.0....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ProJumper

I have no problem to hide from AoE. But I see a lot of scrubs that stay and when they red AoE circle comes, they still stay there like 1-2 sec then they run but then the AoE make dmg on them.

Be quicker.

---

You do realize that the internet isn't a magical device that allows you and everyone else using it to see everything in true real time, right? When you see a person moving, you're seeing them move after:

The server gives indication (red circle) that another player should move.
That player's computer receives the information from the server.
They start moving.
Their signal reaches the server.
The server sends that info to you.
You computer receives that info.

A lot of AOE attacks in this game happen very quickly and they allow no time for dallying, but they also have a zero-tolerance policy for any kind of latency. Finding out about this .3-second update and that the client doesn't actually care whether you moved out of the AOE "in time" but rather if you moved out of the AOE "in time for the terrible netcode to poll your position again before the attack goes off" is not a player skill issue, that's a game code issue.

Watch the video linked in the OP. If you think that player should have taken damage when and where she did, then you have only ever played terrible games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ProJumper

I have no problem to hide from AoE. But I see a lot of scrubs that stay and when they red AoE circle comes, they still stay there like 1-2 sec then they run but then the AoE make dmg on them.

Be quicker.

---

No one cares, that's not what we're talking about here.

while fighting garuda the other day , I hid behind the pillar when she did her first aoe attack from the north. Everyone seen me get there, I got there before 2 others actually.. and I died while standing up still behind the pillar.. we were all like o.0

I was literally still standing up, wand in hand.. dead

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dascorp

another reason as to why 1.0 was remade... was, because of this very same issue... lag/latency.... oh look they didnt fix shit from 1.0....

---

This. ^
This is one of the things that bothers me most. Shit.

As others have said, specifically Rydin, there is DELAY is every damn thing you do in this game. It is not fluid like Tera, or WoW, or even Vindictus.. and they used to have user hosted instance servers. F2P games are straight rockin' SE on the network department. Come on now. There was delay in FFXI, there was delay in FFXIV 1.0, and now there's delay in the new and "improved" FFXIV ARR.

I play 4 feet from my girlfriend, I can watch both of our screens at the same time. The delay is just nasty. She jumps, I see her jump half a second later. I mount up and get a second head start, I'm way behind her on her screen. Our computer hardware is near top-notch and we have a 28 Down/10 Up high-speed cable internet connection in California.

I think we all just expect more from a company like Square-Enix. Most of us have grown up with their RPG's. Help us out SE! Fix it up! Hate to say it.. but it seems like SE just has bad network engineers and/or coders. Man, that just sucks.

They just need to do away with the silly 1s AoE attacks like Weight of the Land, there are plenty of ways to make the game challenging without making it downright unfair for people with bad latency. Killing Titan hardmode was a complete stroke of luck.. inbetween spikes of crippling lag, my group had an attempt where the stars aligned and no one had lag for a few minutes, just long enough to kill him.. not very fun and exciting gameplay when you need to pray your team doesn't lag out into Weight of Land or Landslide.

If you've ever seen a dead body slide across the screen...

Do I even need to go on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ProJumper

I have no problem to hide from AoE. But I see a lot of scrubs that stay and when they red AoE circle comes, they still stay there like 1-2 sec then they run but then the AoE make dmg on them.

Be quicker.

---

Funny thing is - you're seeing the poor server response and not understanding what you' re seeing. So you really think people are standing and waiting in the red? Of course not, they are moving but it took time for their movement to get to the server and then to you.

If you ever get the chance put two computers side-by-side both running FFXIV, move your char and wait until you see that in your buddy's computer. You would be amazed how long the delay is. That's the "1-2 sec" you're talking about.

Edit: as many have said the devs have accepted this as a bug.

Are you saying the devs are wrong too? Maybe you should call them "scrubs" as well.

I have been debating about, if they tuned down all the background crap in titan, since it has the most moving, latency and fps clogging crap if it would help a little, because I have not had any other problem with any of the other primals/dungeons as I have titan and I wonder if its over glorified graphics could also be making things worse.

I came to an NA server following 1.0 because I always thought my ISP was the culprit. I'm on the East Coast so the connectivity to Japan was a 200ms delay at best. That leaves very little time to react. In 1.0, I'd be far ahead of people on my screen while trying to dodge something and then I'd be the only one to get hit. My party members never blamed me for being bad because they saw my body SLIDE across the ground after I died... There was nothing I could do. I had to deal with it. So that's why I came to an NA server...

I'll be upgrading my internet tomorrow, but that isn't going to fix the mapping issue or the hiccups present when instances experience server congestion. There are a lot of issues with positioning. I was watching my boyfriend tank Titan last night. Because of his position, I had a front-row seat to everything that was going on. I would specifically pay attention to how well people were dodging weight of the earth. Sometimes, it would look like they were still in the circle when it exploded... and they were fine. Other times, it looked like they were far out of the circle and they still somehow got hit. It's odd, and the mapping isn't correct.

There are times I'll do Garuda hardmode and see every single party member standing in the 'safe' zone while dodging her frontal attack... and yet, someone still dies... there is no rhyme or reason to this. No lag. I saw them there long before even the server notified my client that the ability was going off. And then there's the infamous 'slides' people do... It's terrifying. I really wish this game was more reactive because I just love PvP and I can't see how PvP is going to be any good with these issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rydin

If you've ever seen a dead body slide across the screen...

Do I even need to go on?

---

It's funny when I first did Ifrit and hit the server lag problem I had a ls-mate send me a video to show me how to run out of the cracks (?!).

I watched the video and what did I see in the background? People dying in the eruption and their dead bodies sliding half-way across the circle!

He hadn't even realized that he was seeing the lag.

edit: after I realized what the problem was I simply learnt to keep moving to avoid the eruptions. Terrible solution I know but I doubt that SE will ever be able to fix this problem in their code. It's been there for a long long time now.

Here's some proof that the issue is so annoying that i can actually capture it on a screenshot:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4015/74gl.png



how long till you figure out whats wrong in this picture?

Completely agree with OP.
Here is a good one also, just as reported in beta, still not fixed: http://i.imgur.com/T9XxskI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T9XxskI.jpg

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...es-the-casting.

I wonder will they put this into "working as intended" along with all the "instants" not working instantly etc.

i wonder if we have to post this in this in the JP forum to have a reply from SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kupofried

i wonder if we have to post this in this in the JP forum to have a reply from SE.

---

I don't think it would help as it has already been replied to by Yoshi during the beta: see this post http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1257955

I wouldn't hold your breath for any further fixes, although it would be wonderful if they improve it. We have to learn to work around the problem by moving before the cast begins. You can either do this by being constantly on the move or memorizing the attack patterns so that you know a second or so before the cast begins to start moving.

For people with over 200ms latency a good guideline is: if you can see the red circle and you are not already moving, you're dead.

Edit to the post below: Not sarcasm, realism :D

I do hope it gets improved sometime in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverwalk

We have to learn to work around the problem by moving before the cast begins. You can either do this by being constantly on the move or memorizing the attack patterns so that you know a second or so before the cast begins to start moving.

---

I sincerely hope this is sarcasm... People should be refusing to pay a monthly premium for a game with hit detection this terrible, not just accepting it. Isn't massive server lag and delay one of the primary reasons why 1.0 did so terribly that it had to be shuttered?

Fingers crossed for a fix or, barring that, ARR shutdown followed by an apology and announcement of version 3.0, with combat mechanics and netcode that aren't abysmal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by complexxL9

Completely agree with OP.
Here is a good one also, just as reported in beta, still not fixed: http://i.imgur.com/T9XxskI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T9XxskI.jpg

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...es-the-casting.

I wonder will they put this into "working as intended" along with all the "instants" not working instantly etc.

---

That whole log is just... wow... such BS. Makes me cringe at what Endgame could look like.

@Silverwalk
Yeah, Right workaround sure let's see:
1)run in circles and hope my summon does all the damage
2)run in circles and let my party die because i can't heal them, "sorry i have to stay alive".
3)become a scripted bot and watch tv.
Please I'm waiting for the invite to your party and see how this "workaround" actually "works".

Titan HM is easy if u can avoid all those AOEs, my group have killed it a few times already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MogulKahn

Titan HM is easy if u can avoid all those AOEs, my group have killed it a few times already.

---

The point is that some people can't avoid all those AOEs due to lag/latency.... did you even read the thread?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kanzer

That's old news, and has already been addressed. The people still complaining about it now are for the large part just people who may not have the best reaction time, or may not have the best internet.

---

Im pretty sure all those issues still infact exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by otarolgam

That whole log is just... wow... such BS. Makes me cringe at what Endgame could look like.

---

Yea iv done that fight where i on my client hear our offtank interrupting his attack, before it goes off, but then it still goes off...i dont understand how thats possible..for me to have the data the offtank interrupted then it would have had to have gone through the server first and it should have processed it. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kupofried

@Silverwalk
Yeah, Right workaround sure let's see:
1)run in circles and hope my summon does all the damage
2)run in circles and let my party die because i can't heal them, "sorry i have to stay alive".
3)become a scripted bot and watch tv.
Please I'm waiting for the invite to your party and see how this "workaround" actually "works".

---

Hey I agree with you, it sucks.

I actually didn't realize people were having this issue. Myself, my boyfriend, and his brother have always dodged just fine without any issues. I wonder where the lag and latency is coming in from? Nonetheless, in every party I've been in I've tried to help out others by letting them know they can use Sprint during the fight if they are having a lot of trouble dodging in general.

the best is when you are killed by a mob that you just killed and you dont have any dots on you
horrible servers all around

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldaena

I actually didn't realize people were having this issue. Myself, my boyfriend, and his brother have always dodged just fine without any issues. I wonder where the lag and latency is coming in from? Nonetheless, in every party I've been in I've tried to help out others by letting them know they can use Sprint during the fight if they are having a lot of trouble dodging in general.

---

It could be luck, or just prudent reaction times.
The problem with the way the game works right now is that every player essentially has a variable amount of latency because the server only polls character positioning every 300ms. Depending on how close you are to the next poll, you could move and have the server update flawlessly. If you start moving immediately after a poll, it effectively adds 300ms to your reaction speed, which can be a killer.

What SHOULD happen is:
AOE cast initiates
AOE cast completes and server checks position of all players in vicinity
Players in the effect are damaged

What IS happening is:
AOE cast initiates
Server polls character locations
AOE cast completes
Server applies damage to all characters in effect range at the time of the poll, regardless of whether or not they moved

It's also a playstyle thing: If you see red and move INSTANTLY regardless of what you are doing, you will generally avoid getting hit so long as your connection is decent -- there is usually enough time to move to safety if you move as soon as the red appears. Problem is with casters and occasionally DRG with their jump lock, it can be tempting to try to finish a cast or an animation. "Oh, well he's casting a 1.5s spell, and I have less than that on my cast, I can finish my cast and move" would work in any other game, provided you moved out of the AOE in time. The polling artificially lowers the amount of time you have to escape an AOE, so any kind of delay can easily result in the player getting hit.

I never had any issue as a WAR.
My hubby BRD got hit 3-4 times.
Healer Got hit.
Other DD got hit.

Sometimes just knock back to the edge if your far enough away from it you don't fall.


4 Duty finders later we got it.
The key for anyone having issue, is don't wait for the AOE attack. Start moving as soon as titan turns away form the tank. Never be on the same side as the tank.
As for the video, That's really bad. Never seen that far away and still get hit with AOE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Unruhe

...
What SHOULD happen is:
AOE cast initiates
AOE cast completes and server checks position of all players in vicinity
Players in the effect are damaged

What IS happening is:
AOE cast initiates
Server polls character locations
AOE cast completes
Server applies damage to all characters in effect range at the time of the poll, regardless of whether or not they moved

---

Thank you, your explanation is clearer than my attempt http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1267314

So in the worst case you have to be out of the red before the cast bar finishes by:
300ms + Your Latency + Server processing time

For example with 200ms latency that's more than 500ms or 1/2 second (we don't know how long the server processing time is).

edit: and what's worse is you get a double whammy with latency because you don't see the cast start until the server message arrives at your computer.

So 100ms of extra latency means you have 200ms less time to get out, nearly 1/4 of a second less!

To the next post: exactly! This is why videos show dead bodies sliding long the ground lol, the server says you're dead but is catching up with your movement data afterwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silverwalk

Thank you, your explanation is clearer than my attempt http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1267314

So in the worst case you have to be out of the red before the cast bar finishes by:
300ms + Your Latency + Server processing time


For example with 200ms latency that's more than 500ms or 1/2 second (we don't know how long the server processing time is).

---

Well imagine this as a scenario. A 1 second cast attack. on 200ms ping, factor server ticks at every .333 seconds and client sending packets every .333 seconds.

[1]00000 Server tick sends packet data for AOE attack
0.100 AOE shows up on your client (remember 200ms is for a round trip)
0.300 You react and begin moving. (avg 200ms reaction time)
[2]0.333 server tick and your client sends data.
[3]0.666 server tick and your client sends data
0.700 You have cleared the AOE. your client holds onto this to go with the next packet due to be sent at "1".
0.766 server receives your new packet 3 location
[4]1 server tick, aoe explodes, server calculates based off your last known position(packet 3) your client also sends data that you have moved
1.100 you receive packet that you are now dead.
1.100 server receives your updated movement data.
[5]1.333 server process your new movement data, and sends you packet: "LOL, YOU ALREADY DEAD BRO!"

The saddest part of this issue, is that if they don't fix it they latter will threat us like cheaters because there will appear people who will exploit this to do many things here's a short list:
1)teleport to the exact position they desire(hello gathering points, hi end boss).
2)killing someone in pvp after being dead(want to see a corpse kill you?).
3)being able to resurrect mine times as you like( just one cast and outside the grace period it already grants you)
4)dupe items.

Quote:

---

I wouldn't hold your breath for any further fixes, although it would be wonderful if they improve it. We have to learn to work around the problem by moving before the cast begins. You can either do this by being constantly on the move or memorizing the attack patterns so that you know a second or so before the cast begins to start moving.

For people with over 200ms latency a good guideline is: if you can see the red circle and you are not already moving, you're dead.

---

You are pretty much right here.
Especially since the servers don't seem to handle the load and tend to lag as well adding even more delays on top of it.
If anything the last maintenance made it worse for me with the constant lag spikes during peak hours.

But here is the main question, does the majority of the players want to do end game when this is the set standard?

keep on trying until you succeed. The only thing that you need to fight is yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reality_check

Why? Because I can't dodge the @#$%ing AoE. After hours of practicing in the duty finder and then going in with my free company I still failed over and over again.

Then I tried to react before the weight actually casted. It worked the first few times but then I just ended up running into other people's weights.


EDIT: Thanks to the person who added this link to the discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5g4T...ature=youtu.be

It seems like it's almost worse on weights too. I will look for a video to add to show that this problem also happens with weights.

---

It all seems fine to me, except for the horrendous DELAY from the servers. The video you linked is proof. Most of us are experiencing that and it's not viable for being competitive in any way. Regardless, about the titan fight itself, learn when he uses weight and move BEFORE he even starts casting.

I hate to say it, but it's on people's end. I have 13ms, I'm capped my fps at 60 and I don't get hit by anything in Titan Hard Mode unless I screw up real bad or like that funny attempt yesterday when I got freed from a rock in a landslide XD was funny tough: ''I'm freeeeee guys yay :)... Ahhhh faaalliiinnnggg :(