History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

the advantages to the 3000 tp skills, is when you buff them/use them in a BR because you can put a lot of accuracy and damage on one big move, whereas the other skills give you more dmg over time, but the buffs are less effective. boosting something that does 200 dmg 10% and doing something that does 500 dmg 10% you get more out of it.


Honestly i havent seen the numbers, and yeah i wouldnt be surprised if archer was outdmging people, but i think they need to add more cool mechanics that are job specific, like multishot, . I have to say its one of the best job specific skills out there. Flurry is cool, and light strike is useful. but multishot is on another level, and they do get two of em. And some of the others enimity up, booorring

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Originally Posted by RexSkyborn

instant except for the huge recast part.
this thread is like trying to teach a cat to roll over.

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How long is the recast time if you divide by 8?
Again, not like this group is capable of creating a novel defense, seeing as how this debate already took place for years, years ago.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

I'm a tad curious, when you mention Doomspike care to share what you use with it? I'm not a fan of the abilities that take up all my TP since they seem inaccurate xD

EDIT: Wow this got a lot of pages fast.

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Because archer should have been nerfed months ago, and now there are too many of them too addicted to its advantages.
Again, not unexpected. It was much worse in XI. By the time SE got around to nerfing the overprivileged rangers, there were legions of them and they already controlled all of endgame.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

How long is the recast time if you divide by 8?
Again, not like this group is capable of creating a novel defense, seeing as how this debate already took place for years, years ago.

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another logical fallacy...
I am disappointed.
I am truly sick of your repeating fallacy.

Invalid point is as much as an invalid point, it can't beat an old but valid point no matter how old it is.

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Originally Posted by Aion

so...people already do that? or just theory?

the problem is on the enemy, not on design of ARC

about playstyle using arrow, yes I think it should be emphasized...

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You can't design an enemy that archer isn't the answer to. Again, allllllready tried this 7 years ago. Failed.
You all STILL act like you've said a SINGLE novel thing as to why you shouldn't get the nerf. Every one of your all's arguments is the same that rangers gave before and they were nerfed almost into oblivion just to teach them a lesson about balance and karma.

Let the nerf happen now, before they take a divine sword to the spoiled archers of 2012.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

another logical fallacy...
I am disappointed.
I am truly sick of your repeating fallacy.

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Lol not logical fallacy. It's the same mathematical fact that brought you the old rangerburns and ninja tanking. There is an ability that offers one shadow in this game. And that's all you need, baby. Rangerburn is BACK!

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Made you a video.

Same situation, same mobs, same gear, 48 PUG instead of 50 Archer.

Second Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swRsHpF3BIc (repeating the example in video 1 on my 48 PUG)


48 PUG: 970
Archer: 1220

Difference: 250

Would a better weapon and 2 levels give me 250 more damage? I would bet that it would be close.

Conclusion: Find something other than damage to determine why Archer is OP. Damage output is not as off the wall as it is given credit for.

The original video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJTrQoGoUc

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You have all those meleers at 50, and you corrupted the constants why?
Maybe it's because your pug has the best shot, and your R50 meleers do even worse.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You can't design an enemy that archer isn't the answer to. Again, allllllready tried this 7 years ago. Failed.
You all STILL act like you've said a SINGLE novel thing as to why you shouldn't get the nerf. Every one of your all's arguments is the same that rangers gave before and they were nerfed almost into oblivion just to teach them a lesson about balance and karma.

Let the nerf happen now, before they take a divine sword to the spoiled archers of 2012.

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My question is, 8 ARC fighting Great BUffalo IN FFXIV, is it ALREADY HAPPEN or NOT????

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Lol not logical fallacy. It's the same mathematical fact that brought you the old rangerburns and ninja tanking. There is an ability that offers one shadow in this game. And that's all you need, baby. Rangerburn is BACK!

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Wrong assumption. Next.

Sorry, I have been excepting too much.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You have all those meleers at 50, and you corrupted the constants why?
Maybe it's because your pug has the best shot, and your R50 meleers do even worse.

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If by "all those melees" you mean 50 glad 50 archer and 48 pug, then yes.

THM, CON and Shield aren't melees sir.

As for LNC and MRD, I would be glad to repeat this test on them once I have them at 50.

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Originally Posted by Aion

My question is, 8 ARC fighting Great BUffalo IN FFXIV, is it ALREADY HAPPEN or NOT????

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Never heard of Bluffing? have you ever seen OP provide any source or any single proof to backup the point OP made?

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

Never heard of Bluffing? did you ever see OP provide and source or any single proof to backup the point OP made?

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I know that..just want to make sure of it, what kind of argument that he would throw to avoid this question

Yeah, he's just trollin'

But I did want to test my damage output on Pug, so he coaxed me into that ^^.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

Never heard of Bluffing? did you ever see OP provide and source or any single proof to backup the point OP made?

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Yeah a full buffed multishot on Dodore and a full buffed multishot on a r37 Molting Mitling LOLOLOLOL

Also she's provided enough proof to show that she honestly doesn't know how most of this game works.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Yeah, he's just trollin'

But I did want to test my damage output on Pug, so he coaxed me into that ^^.

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Doc, is there any 3k TP moves for ARC like PUG's Victimize or LNC's Doomspike?

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Also she's provided enough proof to show that she honestly doesn't know how most of this game works.

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THE POINT! =]

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Originally Posted by Aion

Doc, is there any 3k TP moves for ARC like PUG's Victimize or LNC's Doomspike?

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no, as far as i know

Victimize, Riot Blade, Doomspike and Maim are the 4 TP moves that use "3000" TP (2000+)

Someone find the retarded OPoster's linkshell and ask them to include him more in their events, so we don't have to read his QQs here.

Peregrine do you by any chance appear in the Black Shroud every so often informing anyone who will listen of the impending doom that is coming?

Honestly the only advantage Archers have over other melee during NMs is being out of the NM's aoe range. Here is my pug doing a 900 Victimize II on Uraeus back during 15 man parties http://i53.tinypic.com/14qic2.jpg, damage is pretty much the same on Buffalo as well. Bloodletters on the other hand never do above 700 and the DoT rarely sticks, Barrage and Quicknock do break 1k though if all the hits land.

Arc and Mrd are about equal for aoe dmg on Mosshorn, Dodore, and Goblin. Arc damage might be slightly stronger on avian mobs but the damage isn't game breaking enough to warrant a nerf. I use all the same stats for all of my melee jobs.

As for people jumping on the bandwagon its probably because they see a fully buffed multishot + trifurcate and think "oh shit arc is pwnage!" Great initial burst damage is a shocker on weak leve mobs but over the course of a long fight archer is on par with all the melee.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Someone find the retarded OPoster's linkshell and ask them to include him more in their events, so we don't have to read his QQs here.

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Haha the raging spit against the coming wind.
Don't say you haven't been warned.
The more you lean on archer, the worse that hammer will be.

If I were you I'd ask for it now.

Can you report someone for being retarded?

Anyway, the topic's been exhausted.

Goodnight

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Haha the raging spit against the coming wind.
Don't say you haven't been warned.
The more you lean on archer, the worse that hammer will be.

If I were you I'd ask for it now.

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Are you not bored? how many time you have been typing this XXXX in this thread?
Invalid statement is invalid.

Good night! There is really nothing to discuss here.

give archer mage like defense and double the hate on all their weapon skills; that will show them >_>

See ya then. Tanaka had your all's numbers before you even started archer. It's a shame that we lost his eye on you all, because now it's out of control and you actually think you earned the imbalance. Again, same story. Different game. Different ranged FF class.

Same players, probably. Same outcome, eventually.

With Doomspike II, I used Raging Strike II, Ferocity II, Hawk's Eye, Cadence, and when done in a Battle Regimen, even with just one other person, it does a ton of damage.

Doomspike II does have a little bit lower Accuracy, and does use a lot of TP, but it is the most damaging skill that lancer has, and when used correctly, can outperform any archer damage.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

With Doomspike II, I used raging strike 2, ferocity 2, cadence, and in a BR

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Out does EVERYTHING I can do as an Archer. Tested with every WS

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

The developers made the exact same mistakes with archer that they did with ranger in FFXI. It's the highest damage job with the same repertoire of broken abilities as before. It doesn't get hit with AoE. Now everyone who is flocking to archer is starting to petition the sneezes initially aimed at preventing ranged combat abuse to be taken out, because they want even more power.

Stop the snowball effect before the solution to everything is 6 archers and 2 thaumaturges. You all know better than this, Square. You sat there and watched it happen to FFXI, and you're doing it again.

Nerf em.

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Says the person that isn't a high rank ARC :D lolllllll <3

So, I would like to point out... I have used weaponskills with 2 arrows nocked and it still only fires one arrow......

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Originally Posted by Majidah

give archer mage like defense and double the hate on all their weapon skills; that will show them >_>

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Make multishot miss, and remove the buffs on hits 2 and 3. That's a start.
Reducing their attack power or increasing their stamina costs would be the 2nd fix.
I think the trouble with archer's superior dps probably lies in an imbalance in the combination of bow plus arrow stats.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

Says the person that isn't a high rank ARC :D lolllllll <3

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The problem is you think archer is new and novel, when they're not. They're the same old trouble Square's already gotten into before. Don't need a high level archer. I have more experience than you in this matter because I've played out this scenario before.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Make multishot miss, and remove the buffs on hits 2 and 3. That's a start.
Reducing their attack power or increasing their stamina costs would be the 2nd fix.
I think the trouble with archer's superior dps probably lies in an imbalance in the combination of bow plus arrow stats.

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Uhh... hate to break it to you, but multishot CAN miss. What a retard >_<
And fyi, this isn't XI.

Good job defending by yourself in this thread peregrine. i too have played FFXI for a very long time 2003-2009, and yes i can see what you mean when you compare and archers and rangers... those poor dhalmels in bibiki bay(5RNG+1BRD)..

Anyways...

Those who thinks ARC is just as good as any other DD should think twice, ARC is better than all the melee DD at the moment. If you are denying this it means either you are don't want SE adjusting the class, or Have not level'd any other Melee class and told yourself "i if was archer i could have killed this mob faster" or just in denial.

In my Current static consisting of 7 members and a mule, everyone has archer level'd expect me(because i know it will be "adjusted" in the future) and i also have heard them saying that if "i was on archer, this leve would have been over along time ago". I'm gonna guess the Archer population is higher than any other melee, seeing how almost everyone wants to lvl archer or have a 50 archer in their arsenal already. why? "its the most balanced class?" please.

Archer do have their disadvantage in their defense and cant solo much of even match mobs at rank 45+, but when it comes to a party with tank, healers etc, you they dont have to worry about lacking defense(since provoke/taunt is much better in FFXIV), imo Linkshells perfere ARC over any other DD in NMs... and you know some of you who has ARC leveld it because of that or leveling it because you heard about its damaged output.

A tank, couple of Mages, and 5xARC would get a 50NM dead before a same set up with 5x(insert any other melee).

In the current condition of the game, last thing i want to see is a ARC nerf and ppl rage quit game, but i would like to see
buffs for other classes such as multihit skills(that arnt capped to each hit)to bring them to archer's output lvl.

There are only 2 things that make ARC a better DD than the others.

Raging Strike 2 & Multishot. BTW, multishot is pointless to use without Raging Strike 2 unless your just buffing before the fight.

But....Raging Strike 2 can be equipped on other jobs and it pwns on other DD as well.

Aaaand ARC dont have 3K TP skills...I guess it evened out

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

The source is our shell carpenters who can't make enough bows, while bhuj's, lances, and knuckles all remain unsold. A R40 bow still costs 300k. Know what a R40 axe costs? 40. If that. Why? Everyone's an archer. No one's a marauder.

If you don't see the world becoming a generic archerfest...no wonder this thread comes as a shock.

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Market on your server must suck =p

For someone who using FFXI History as fact to proving his/her point, you clearly did not get your fact right. What got nerfed for Rng in FFXI was not the dmg, but the ability to stay in close range with the mob, using /nin and dual daggers to get tp and do dmg with rng ws. Dmg output of a rng stay the same or even higher b4 the nerf if you stay in the right range in FFXI. What stop people in FFXI to do rng party was not the dmg but that they actually have to spend gil on arrow. B4 the nerf most rng in party would just get their tp with dual daggers then spam sidewider and if you have a Kclub that would give you even higher advantage than other DD.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

There are only 2 things that make ARC a better DD than the others.

Raging Strike 2 & Multishot. BTW, multishot is pointless to use without Raging Strike 2 unless your just buffing before the fight.

But....Raging Strike 2 can be equipped on other jobs and it pwns on other DD as well.

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Multishot(big advantage at beginning of the fight, using it in middle is just stupid unless ur safe)

As well as Trifrucate(3hit), Quick Knock(multihit ws pre 30's), Bloodletter(1000TP, also recast is insanely short compared to other "final ws") Wide Volley II(a good non steadfasted AoE for 1000tp).. all im saying is archer is better DD for those who refused.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJTr...&feature=feedu

One minute on dodore.
http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ffxi...4gloI4X10R.png
That's a light shot, by the way.

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Thought u said you had a screen shot of an archer doing 3k. this only showed a ~1200 mutlishot most likely buffed with RS or Ferocity.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Please go play WOW and post on their forums, your attitude and personality belongs there, not here.

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Please, no. The WoW forums actually hate people like peregrine. Snide remarks like "got killed in a battleground, going to the forums" are very different from what pere does here.

That said, I don't understand enough about archers to make any real comments. Though if this is indeed the case, then I have to wonder why it's so hard for SE to make a ranged weapon class that is balanced and on par with everyone else.

PS: If history is repeating itself, this means we'll eventually see MRD and GLD get put out of a job by someone with the ability to completely negate damage, LNCs will eat some change to weapon skills that will label them as gimp for the better part of four years, and THM will really become Red Mage and be solely focused on spamming refresh.