[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

Move along guys

Nothing to see here

Yes

Although i absoulutely love how sch turned out, I was very disappointed at how smn plays. In the unlikely event of a rework it would be need to see an ffxiv version of yuna for smn.

don't move along please! a lot to see here!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

no
#1: They've stated before they have no intention of changing Egi design. Can we please stop asking for this? It's not going to happen.

Personally, I like the way Summoner works as a class. Do I think Egi are ugly? Of course! However I don't expect them to ever chance aesthetically and I think asking for any class to be completely reworked is asking for too much

---

Well in cases like this if you don't like something, speak up! Sometimes you just have to put your opinion out there, and who knows, it might effect something one day, even if it isn't something we expected. Besides they've made sure to let us know that they're listening to the fans, as well as have people monitoring the forums. Whether they said they'll do it or not, it wouldn't be the first time a game company had a change of heart, in the end what will happen will be for the best though, so no harm done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarynth

a ffxiv version of yuna for smn.

---

yeah because idk about you guys but when hear the word "Sumner" i think "Yuna" and what do we get here on FF14 ARR => a person with various pets that throws mostly poisons and flesh eatin things like Bio, and for normal attacks it has Ruin to do somewhat of a damage lol

Nope. No need to fix what ain't broken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

Nope. No need to fix what ain't broken.

---

Thats true though, with so many glitches and bugs do you really think they will work on Arcanist? if its doing its job of killing and healing "yay"

Hmm... it depends. I would like to see more use of the other egi, but I am quite happy with how the summoner class works. I like how it combines my two favorite aspects of DPS, DoT's and pets. I really enjoy playing this class, and as such, I have to say... no.

That being said, if SE wanted to rework it then fair enough. I am sure the class will still be my main, anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hdepaula

Thats true though, with some many glitches and bugs do you really think they will work on Arcanist? if its doing its job of killing and healing "yay"

---

Bugs and glitches are separate issues, the core of the class though, is fine.

I wish Egi's looked better. But I kind of like the way Summoner is right now because I hate pets, but that's a personal thing.

Yes. While I came to enjoy the class as it is now, I was really disappointed when I discovered it was a dot class with a pet that's essentially a dot with a health bar and a utility skill.
I'd love to see the class changed so that the summons feel powerful, even if the way summoner works now gets scrapped entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vashous

Just want to say that I think this job's gameplay is rather entertaining and quite efficient. Neither of those though, are reasons we are voting Yes. The reason we vote yes is because the gameplay is not a SMNR.

---

Then what is the gameplay of a Summoner? Is it just in comparison to FFXI and past FF games? As I said before, I think the egi could use a re-working, but I like how the FFXIV Summoner class is different to past incarnations, how it has the DoT element which means we do not just rely on our Egi, aeons etc...

Yes.

I do want it reworked, but not from the ground up, I just want it modified so that the DoT's are filler and the focus is on the pets, which is basically the opposite of what it is now. And I want the pets bigger, don't care what anyone else says about lore or whatever.

YES

I think the job is very solid as it is. It just isn't very true to the iconic class that is the FF SMN. Summoner's were not a pet class and they were not a dot class historically. I like the class mechanics in thier current form and harbor no hopes that it will drastically change. I just wish I felt more like a final fantasy summoner when playing the job :)

For bigger egis, play on a bigger monitor/television. Problem solved.

Yes.

I just don't understand the connection to 'disease' in general. Like, when and where did it become a thing that, because you summoned this primal being of pure magic to do you bidding, you must then also have access to poisonous magic. Its a bizarre combination and I cant really enjoy this Job because of it. i like DoTs, I like summons, but why in the world are they the same Job? Every time I play this job I'm asking myself "What the f*** does crap like 'Miasma' and 'Fester' have to do with summoning magical monsters?"...Im sorry, it's...it's just weird. Feels like a practical choice (they needed a DoT class, somewhere, somehow) on SE's part more than a creative or inspired one.

I'd love to see some poles, maybe even dancers using them on a stage waiting for Gil to be thrown their way. Oooh, Gold Saucer might become a gentleman's club!

Yes

I would love to see the job reworked to fit the Summoner theme more.

I would love current "Summoner" job be renamed to something else more suitable for what the job does. And then give us a REAL summoner in the future expansion/patches.

Can I put a maybe? :P

Yes

I think our primary source of damage should come from the pets rather than our selves, but don't get me wrong this is the first MMO and Final Fantasy game that used summons so I maybe wrong, but when I think of summoner I think multiple minions to do my bidding something like Skyrim? Where as we level up we get a trait to use more summons at once, we could still have our damage, but less potent then the summons and some support spells for the summons, but that's just coming from a noob. :P

Yes.

Along Final Fantasy terms, Summoners are magic users, offensive or defensive, with a strong emphasis on using summons to fully realize that potential.
Honestly, aside from Contagion, it doesn't matter what the hell your pet is doing. The damage they put out is pretty unnoticeable and most of their skills are straight up useless or too situational.

If people didn't complain at me for it, I probably wouldn't even bother using a pet except for Garuda during boss fights.

I didn't want another Affliction Warlock clone, I wanted a goddamn summoner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mjytresz

Honestly, aside from Contagion, it doesn't matter what the hell your pet is doing. The damage they put out is pretty unnoticeable

---

O_O

Are you serious?

Wait...you're the same person in the other thread wondering why anyone would bring a SMN over a BLM to a raid. Yeah... I'm going to guess you don't know how to play your job properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mjytresz

Yes.

Along Final Fantasy terms, Summoners are magic users, offensive or defensive, with a strong emphasis on using summons to fully realize that potential.
Honestly, aside from Contagion, it doesn't matter what the hell your pet is doing. The damage they put out is pretty unnoticeable and most of their skills are straight up useless or too situational.

If people didn't complain at me for it, I probably wouldn't even bother using a pet except for Garuda during boss fights.

I didn't want another Affliction Warlock clone, I wanted a goddamn summoner.

---

Go sit in Akiza's corner, you'd have two things in common: you don't know jack and have a cult-like love for summoner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

Go sit in Akiza's corner, you'd have two things in common: you don't know jack and have a cult-like love for summoner.

---

You don't need to put down a summoner's wishes just because you want a warlock, besides his "cult-like love" for summoner is a good thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Estevo

snip

---

I never asked nor wanted anything, I chose SMN as my main in XIV based on it's own merits. If you or others don't like the SMN in this iteration that's fine, but don't waste the development teams' time complaining about aesthetics about the job, bitch about something that matters. If there IS something I want, it's better balance between our current pets and realistic adjustments to some of our skills, (tri-disaster, etc.).

I "put down a summoner's wishes" based on what Mjytresz said, not what he wanted. His statement about SMN being weak is completely wrong. Not to mention his belief the SMN pets contribute almost nothing. Pets, as they are now, are 1/3rd of our damage. Just like SCH's healing, our DPS goes down the toilet if our pet dies.

I just can't comprehend why threads like this continue to exist. Did you really think it was necessary to revive a 7 month old thread and make another one at the same time that's pretty much based on the same topic? Is the "feel" of SMN that important to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

I just can't comprehend why threads like this continue to exist. Did you really think it was necessary to revive a 7 month old thread and make another one at the same time that's pretty much based on the same topic? Is the "feel" of SMN that important to you?

---

No to your first question, and yep to the second. I actually didn't notice the thread date when I replied to it, but I'd like to see the topic put out there, not my ideas exactly, but the idea of being open to change with the class/job systems, which I'm hoping is already on their radar from the cryptic tidbits I've found in one or two interviews :D. Yeah, I'd say the feel of the summoner is important. I mean content staying true to the lore is important according to the dev team, so why is the Arcanist, known for arcane geometry and summoning, using infections and poison? Same question can be asked about the Summoner. Of course I could be missing something, but that's just my opinion on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eggnook24

I\\'d love to see some poles, maybe even dancers using them on a stage waiting for Gil to be thrown their way. Oooh, Gold Saucer might become a gentleman\\'s club!

---

Way off topic but my drg just plenty of 'pole' dancing in the streets of Ul'dah :3

If you don’t like being an Arcanist and if you don’t like the pets, why the hell are you being an Arcanist then? You wanna be a scholar but your not happy with the class, become a WHM. You wanna be a Sumner but is not happy with the class, become a BLM.

I think the thread is relevant. When Yoshi-P first took over, one of the very first things he said he wanted to do going forward was to give more of the FF feeling in FFXIV. The job system was by design a way to get the classic Final Fantasy jobs back in the game, and he's implemented a multitude of (awesome) design choices and content that have really made it feel like a core FF game.

I think this is why a lot of people are put off by Summoner, myself included. Yoshi-P WANTS to appeal to fans of the series. I think with SMN they got some stuff right, but some fell off the mark for me.

I'm actually fine with the egis. As a Lalafell their size isn't really an issue for me, I understand both that people want the big summons of XI (I certainly do as well) and that this is not something the dev team is going to budge on, and I get their reasons of not wanting to clutter things up as well. I'm willing to concede this as long as the pet feels more like my priority, which right now it does not.


In general I don't expect there to be any sweeping changes to Summoner, but I think it's still worth discussing. To me, the main problem is, as other people have mentioned, the disease skills. They just don't fit lore-wise. The Arcanist and Summoner questlines are awesome, but they don't really justify why I can cause decay and incidentally summon things. It has much more of an arithmancy angle when it's explained to you, which doesn't match up to the skills.


If I had unlimited resources, and let me say again I don't think they're going to do anything like this but in a perfect world: keep the DoTs the way they are, gameplay wise I think they're fun. But the explanation/animation would change slightly. Make them quick-summon attacks, summon Carbuncle, Fairy or Ifrit/Titan/Garuda-egi for just a second, long enough to do their basic attack animation with the DoTs so it feels like we're actually doing something related to our skills.


I think this would help the feeling of the pet being extraneous unless you're using Contagion. Ideally as a Pet class you shouldn't be able to forget your pet is there, just using cooldowns every once in a while and focusing on your own damage output. Even if you're summoning an egi for a single attack, I think it feels more like "I'm a Summoner!" than the current class was.

I main Summoner and I do really enjoy the class, but it's honestly one of the only areas of ARR that I feel missed the mark a little. If I wasn't wearing a Summoner horn, I don't know that I'd call it a Summoner class. I don't expect any sweeping changes, the team is busting their butts on new content and I respect that, but if FF-ness is a priority for the team (and I believe that it is), it's important to at least make the Summoner class feel more cohesive. Right now it's several cool concepts that end up disjointed.

It is also important to remember that ARR is still in its infancy. While Summoner in FFXI was my ideal of what that class should be like, I also was there to witness it being relegated to a backup healer because, mechanically, it didn't know how to work well, and it took S-E years to make some of the necessary changes, and people still argue over the job's usefulness now. I don't think its an easy problem to fix, but I trust that over time the dev team will make tweaks and give the class more of an identity than it has now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashford

In general I don't expect there to be any sweeping changes to Summoner, but I think it's still worth discussing. To me, the main problem is, as other people have mentioned, the disease skills. They just don't fit lore-wise. The Arcanist and Summoner questlines are awesome, but they don't really justify why I can cause decay and incidentally summon things. It has much more of an arithmancy angle when it's explained to you, which doesn't match up to the skills.

---

It actually does fit lore-wise. You cripple your opponent from afar while your pet goes in for the kill (Ifrit) or shields you from damage (Titan). In a raid where you are more focused on providing long-range DPS, Garuda shines by directly enhances your abilities via Contagion.

The role of Arcanist is that of strategy and being able to adapt and plan for situations. I would say being a SMN requires a lot of forethought and your approach changes in many situations. Titan for emergency tanking, Ifrit for trash and open world content, Garuda for raiding. To only look at the way the job plays in ONE aspect of the game... well of course the job won't make sense. I mean, there are awkward lore/gameplay issues all over. DRGs are supposed to be defending Coerthas from dragons, why are they fighting any primal not called Bahamut? And WHMs are supposed to use magic sparingly, but we have people spamming Holy in towns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ashford

I think this would help the feeling of the pet being extraneous unless you're using Contagion. Ideally as a Pet class you shouldn't be able to forget your pet is there, just using cooldowns every once in a while and focusing on your own damage output. Even if you're summoning an egi for a single attack, I think it feels more like "I'm a Summoner!" than the current class was.

---

I micromanage my pet a lot. Attacking two targets at once, placing it out of harms way, using it as an alt-tank (screw Ramuh, I mean the Titan Ex adds), and don't forget that you can use Ifrit to stun/interrupt. In Pharos Sirius I run into so many tanks who don't know Giga Slash, Banish III, and Divide can and should be stunned. Then there's open world content and quests where sometimes I just sit back and let my pet kill things. Even so, it's a delicate balance. Sometimes having to constantly move and place my pet drives me insane and my DPS suffers. For instance, keeping your pet out of poison pools in Lost City of Amdapor and out of Diabolos's AoEs (which do a surprising amount of damage to egis). Could you imagine if that level of micro managing was ALWAYS necessary? It would just be irritating.

I think the problem here is that people wanted (expected) the Summoner to be the class and something like High Summoner to be the Job.

I cannot say I am overly fond of the state of the Summoner and thus, if given the opportunity, I would vote to have it reworked. However, I expect that it is far too late for Square to make any sort of changes to it or at least the changes some of people in this thread want.

Yes, summoner makes me sad. Its Warlock with less interesting pets.

Since the Ramuh-nerf, I'm having to Sustain more often, thus, lowering DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JustMatt

I think the problem here is that people wanted (expected) the Summoner to be the class and something like High Summoner to be the Job.

I cannot say I am overly fond of the state of the Summoner and thus, if given the opportunity, I would vote to have it reworked. However, I expect that it is far too late for Square to make any sort of changes to it or at least the changes some of people in this thread want.

---

You mean people were expecting the Evoker to be the class and Summoner to be the job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidvideo

Since the Ramuh-nerf, I'm having to Sustain more often, thus, lowering DPS.

---

if your pet is in melle range of your tank then you have bigger concerns than worrying about how much you need to use sustain, that or paid no attention to what was actually changed in the ramuh fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

You mean people were expecting the Evoker to be the class and Summoner to be the job.

---

/sigh

I almost have nothing else to say to Azika, just /sigh and /facepalm

Maybe if SE didn't focus on the Primals as bosses. We probably would have gotten them as pet.
http://i.imgur.com/CF1EpjO.jpg

TBH would like a complete redesign of the egi's just something.
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...b1b68a2fcc.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

/sigh

I almost have nothing else to say to Azika, just /sigh and /facepalm

---

Do I dare show people a quote of Akiza wanting TIME MAGIC for SMN of all spells to choose from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

Do I dare show people a quote of Akiza wanting TIME MAGIC for SMN of all spells to choose from?

---

Time Magic is more flashier and visual appealing for the Summoner base class than Arcanists Disease Mage.

WE INTERRUPT THIS THREAD FOR THE FOLLOWING UNPOPULAR OPINION! READER DISCRETION IS ADVISED!

I am fine with the way the FFXIV SMN is, both from an aesthetic and gameplay standpoint. Each mainline numbered FF is completely self-contained (those with sequels never break fully into another mainline numbered game), and experiences differ as the classes evolve and change with design/vision, implementation and setting/lore. The worlds are different, therefore, I am comfortable with the implementation of things being different, as well.

If the FFXIV SMN recieved an "overhaul", it would no longer be a FFXIV SMN. Also, lore would have to be retconned and/or discarded for this to occur, and, as we have seen already with the case of Phlegethon/Acheron, the devs aren't too keen on doing that.

I will continue to enjoy playing my FFXIV SMN.

THIS HAS BEEN AN UNPOPULAR OPINION! WE NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED SUMMONER BASHING THREAD!