If you are a WHM without Swiftcast, you are holding back your team at endgame

Can't we all just get along?

Healers should definitely have Swiftcast, Stoneskin, and Eye for Eye unlocked. But, given the ridiculous amount of DPS I've ran into that don't have blood for blood unlocked, or the amount of tanks that don't have mantra unlocked... I don't think it's fair to only blame the healers for not having crucial crossclass abilities unlocked.

The first thing I did when I hit level 50 was level a Thaumaturge to get swiftcast. As a healer, why would you not want a spell like that? Its usefulness is through the roof. Instant Cure II, Medica, Medica II, Raise, Protect, Clutch Holy Stuns. A Divine Purpose, Presence Of Mind, and Swiftcast combo allows for powerful burst healing. The only downside is literally just leveling a Thaumaturge to 26 which does not even take long at all. Yet I still see other healers without it. Why would you not get such an extremely powerful spell like that?

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Originally Posted by Xeffer

The first thing I did when I hit level 50 was level a Thaumaturge to get swiftcast. As a healer, why would you not want a spell like that? Its usefulness is through the roof. Instant Cure II, Medica, Medica II, Raise, Protect, Clutch Holy Stuns. A Divine Purpose, Presence Of Mind, and Swiftcast combo allows for powerful burst healing. The only downside is literally just leveling a Thaumaturge to 26 which does not even take long at all. Yet I still see other healers without it. Why would you not get such an extremely powerful spell like that?

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Uh maybe because people haven't gotten around to it? How does pointing out a thread is dumb imply that WHM's automatically don't want to get swiftcast?

stop getting killed and u wont need a white mage with it :P

and I don't have it and I do dang good with out it u want me 2 have it well I want the dps 2 stop getting killed but that don't happen

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Originally Posted by Alavastre

Uh maybe because people haven't gotten around to it? How does pointing out a thread is dumb imply that WHM's automatically don't want to get swiftcast?

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Haven't gotten around to it. AKA Lazy.
Regardless of whether or not you think the thread is "dumb" it brings up a valid point to which there is no counterargument for besides being lazy. If you choose to not get Swiftcast, you're lazy, it's that simple.
Please go be casual somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Xeffer

Haven't gotten around to it. AKA Lazy.
Regardless of whether or not you think the thread is "dumb" it brings up a valid point to which there is no counterargument for besides being lazy. If you choose to not get Swiftcast, you're lazy, it's that simple.
Please go be casual somewhere else.

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Fail troll is fail

You can level a thm to 26 in about 4 hours if you just grind fates. It is the best 4 hours a white mage can spend, too.

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Originally Posted by silverhope

Fail troll is fail

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And here's an example of someone who has no idea what "troll" means.

I find it funny that someone who died during a fight instead of learning the strategy, learning how to not die, help a healer out by applying abilities of his own to keep himself alive aka heals and such, is mad because a WHM doesn't have a THM lvl 26 spell.

As a SCH I've noticed I cannot add THM spells/abilities, but yet as a SMN I can, granted my THM is only lvl 20. So perhaps if I leveled to 26 I might be able to then.

I've been in groups, granted not endgame, where DPS dies and it's me and the tank, and we end it. Heck on Stone Vigil, I solo'd the last boss when everyone died by the swooping breath. I also fought Garuda with just myself and Tank, once Phase 3 started and we won! So instead of QQ'n because you died like a chump, why not learn the fights and be better at doing your job instead of telling others how to do theirs.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

A swiftcasted raise ...
...
What are your thoughts?

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You died? My friend, you aren't ready for endgame yet; wait until Extreme mode.

jc

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Originally Posted by ArashiDaigon

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Whether or not the OP is "QQ'n" doesn't matter. Even if you know a fight inside and out there is always going to be a percent of error where you may make a mistake or factors beyond your control cause you to die. Regardless Swiftcast is not just for raise, it's for all of your abilities which effectively increases your HPS. There's no reason to not get Swiftcast when it's so easily available.

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Originally Posted by Xeffer

Whether or not the OP is "QQ'n" doesn't matter. Even if you know a fight inside and out there is always going to be a percent of error where you may make a mistake or factors beyond your control cause you to die. Regardless Swiftcast is not just for raise, it's for all of your abilities which effectively increases your HPS. There's no reason to not get Swiftcast when it's so easily available.

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Again, as SCH I cannot add THM abilities, so I cannot even have Swiftcast as of right now. I need to see once I level THM to 26 to see if suddenly I can, which I highly doubt. As for WHM, using any abilities that make an instant cast is always a plus, but I don't think it's a mandatory spell, as perhaps their play-style works better with different sets and abilities.

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Originally Posted by Xeffer

Whether or not the OP is "QQ'n" doesn't matter. Even if you know a fight inside and out there is always going to be a percent of error where you may make a mistake or factors beyond your control cause you to die. Regardless Swiftcast is not just for raise, it's for all of your abilities which effectively increases your HPS. There's no reason to not get Swiftcast when it's so easily available.

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OP brought a specific example when he created the thread. If you die, and it's not an unavoidable mechanic, you've done something wrong. This only becomes more true as you start raiding as well. Yes, Swiftcast is very strong, is a great utility spell, and most definitely is something that should be picked up. However, if you're wiping and the only thing that is going to make a difference is a WHM with swiftcast, there are bigger problems afoot than your WHM not having it.

Scholars get skills from Conjurer and Thaumaturge so you should be able to add them, so look again on your cross-skills abilities.

Pretty sure I mentioned this earlier, but there is a difference between not having the skill yet, and refusing to get it all together. I'm pretty sure no one is in the latter category, although some may choose to take longer to get there. Eitherway, if you're a solid healer, not having swift cast isn't going to make you into some super baddy. If DPS fail at positioning it isn't your fault.

What DPS need to take into account is every time they screw up and get hit by something they shouldn't, that is healing (and mana) taken away from the tanks, or mechanics that NEED the healer's attention/resources. Is it the healer's fault for 'mismanaging' their mana because they had to revive 6 times throughout the battle and constantly heal that one guy that couldn't avoid an AoE if his life depended on it. Should the healer divert heals from the tank, potentially letting them die, to keep up the derpy dps?

Got to love the "All about me" DPS players that think they are friggen rock stars.

Any logical person that doesn't get "mandatory" cross-class abilities is probably thinking that if almost everyone is wasting their time getting this ability, then there is gonna be a high chance it will be nerfed, because if something is 100% "mandatory" for doing your job successfully it's most likely going to be smacked into next Tuesday with the nerf bat making it so become pointless.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

A swiftcasted raise is probably the most useful thing a white mage could possibly do at Endgame, among the many other uses for Swiftcast. Yet almost everysingle time I go into DF, the White Mage never has Swiftcast, and we wipe. Everytime the WHM does have swiftcast, we win, coincidence? I think not.

You should not be healing endgame with a WHM at all until you learn Swiftcast. If you don't know this ability, you are holding back your team. Does anybody else agree? Is Swiftcast a vitally important ability for a White Mage to have? What are your thoughts?

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All I see in this is a player that probably dies at some point in his battles BC he can't manage his own threat and doesn't like laying there BC ur job is not essential to the battle. Die with dignity and hush up. If u and ur party are doing ur jobs right and avoiding aoe u won't need raise.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

A swiftcasted raise is probably the most useful thing a white mage could possibly do at Endgame, among the many other uses for Swiftcast. Yet almost everysingle time I go into DF, the White Mage never has Swiftcast, and we wipe. Everytime the WHM does have swiftcast, we win, coincidence? I think not.

You should not be healing endgame with a WHM at all until you learn Swiftcast. If you don't know this ability, you are holding back your team. Does anybody else agree? Is Swiftcast a vitally important ability for a White Mage to have? What are your thoughts?

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Though swiftcast raise is very usefull. I find that I use swiftcast medica II far more often. There are many times that you are on the move say in fights like garuda and swiftcast medica II is priceless. WHM without Swiftcast should not be doing HM primals (this also include surecast). WHM are not alone though I think every class has near requried cross class abilities.

Just a question - Is Swiftcast useable only for magic classes or can non magic classes use it as well?

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Originally Posted by Loxius

Scholars get skills from Conjurer and Thaumaturge so you should be able to add them, so look again on your cross-skills abilities.

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I just looked again and it wasn't there, so I switch to THM, then switched back, and now it's there... weird. Thanks Loxius.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Just a question - Is Swiftcast useable only for magic classes or can non magic classes use it as well?

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All base classes can use it, however only DoM (magic class) Jobs are able to.

Gotta keep those bad DPS up somehow lol.

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

if you don't have swiftcast and your playing WHM... yeah that is pretty gimp

it is such an important ability...not just for raise but for every moment you need to squeeze a spell right the hell now

Tank got hit hard and is in the red. Your still dodging stuff Swiftcast -> Cure 2
Party is taking some real dmg Swiftcast -> Medica 2
back up WHM is down Swiftcast -> Raise
etc etc

Please WHM get this ability

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Tank gets hit hard > Benediction
Party Damage > Medica II (The regen covers me for a dual cast + 2-3 second cast time isnt bad, i know when AoE damage is going to inflict, then again, why are you huddled up in an AoE?)
WHM Down - Raise with Presence of Mind.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

The only thing it signals is that i'm talking about White Mages in this topic. Is a summoner or scholar a white mage? I'm not sure you know what you're talking about in this thread. This topic's about white mages that expect their team to carry them to victory with minimized healing potential. When did I say anything about summoners or scholars? Ridiculous.

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Ah ok then. So If I roll my SCH which is a healer and can Swiftcast + Raise ( Resurrect ). I'll make sure not to use it then when/if I'm DF up with you. Just a little tip. Know the classes/jobs before you say Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

A swiftcasted raise is probably the most useful thing a white mage could possibly do at Endgame, among the many other uses for Swiftcast. Yet almost everysingle time I go into DF, the White Mage never has Swiftcast, and we wipe. Everytime the WHM does have swiftcast, we win, coincidence? I think not.

You should not be healing endgame with a WHM at all until you learn Swiftcast. If you don't know this ability, you are holding back your team. Does anybody else agree? Is Swiftcast a vitally important ability for a White Mage to have? What are your thoughts?

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Wrong. You shouldn't have to get raised in battle if your team is functioning properly if you need raises during fights its definitely something else wrong with the team not the mage's fault they dont have swiftcast

Some of the arguments in this thread are a bit silly. Forget the whole "you need swiftcast for raise" deal for a moment.

Swiftcast has a 90 sec CD and allows you to instant cast. It can work as: an emergency heal, extra aoe output, resummon/swap of a pet, or an instant raise.

There is no reason to NOT have swiftcast, it is honestly the best crossclass skill available to healers.

If someone dies there's a problem with the raid, sure. Why wouldn't you be prepared for that situation though?

A sign of a good player is being prepared for any situation and using all the tools available to you.

you nubs do understand WHM gets a spell that speeds there casting time up without cross class skills... and they dont stack when you cast both at the same time...... this thread is poorly made with lack of info, you only need that crap if you want to carry nub PuGs

I don't know about needing Swiftcast for end-game, but as a Scholar it's been invaluable for carrying my team through the 35+ dungeons and Garuda. Dzemael Darkhold is a joke with Swiftcast and a competent tank. Being able to instantly rez someone is a useful tool in battle for most fights. That said, if you have a SMN in your end-game team, make sure that they bring Swiftcast too for generic battle-rezzing goodness.

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Healers should definitely have Swiftcast, Stoneskin, and Eye for Eye unlocked. But, given the ridiculous amount of DPS I've ran into that don't have blood for blood unlocked, or the amount of tanks that don't have mantra unlocked... I don't think it's fair to only blame the healers for not having crucial crossclass abilities unlocked.

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If people that have nothing better to do than play the game all day could realize that not everyone has had quite enough time yet to level up secondary classes to 25-30+ on top of gearing for HM and persuing other goals in the game we wouldn't have a need for this thread.

If one spell is holding you back from winning then it's a shortcoming of the party as a whole. I agree that swiftcast should be attained as WHM, but stop whining and give people time to play the damn game.

I prefer predicting the future :P
Not against swiftcast. Just that after a complete fail or 2 on a boss or any event, I can work out where a heal will soon be needed before it is. Being ready for things before they actually happen is what I see to be most important for a healer.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

If you don't know this ability, you are holding back your team. Does anybody else agree?

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Yoshi-P has confirmed that it is necessary to use the abilities of other classes:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Because of the armory system’s design, end game encounters have been balanced for players who have not only leveled one job to 50, but who have also obtained abilities from other classes.

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it hardly takes any time to level the secondary up to a measly 20 or so, I work two jobs I know you can do it too....

One of the entire reasons for the fast leveling in this game is the armory system.

If there are mandatory abilities from other classes that are a must then the whole armory system is a sham. They might as well have just had character classes that you level up on. They already make it a pain to level a second class when you have run out of the main quests. Should have just made a character class white mage and swift cast would have been one of the abilities you would level up to.

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Originally Posted by Roaminggnome

If there are mandatory abilities from other classes that are a must then the whole armory system is a sham. They might as well have just had character classes that you level up on. They already make it a pain to level a second class when you have run out of the main quests. Should have just made a character class white mage and swift cast would have been one of the abilities you would level up to.

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its not a pain to level another class, especially post 2.1 run your low level guildhest/dungeons once every...two days even, and you will have SC in no time. a single dungoenwrun without it at low level can equate a level and a half sometimes, lasting all of 30 mins.

Its nothard, its not long, its part of game design, your not expected to get them anywhere near 50 or even to where leveling "slows down"

edit: also how does it make the armory system a sham?

Wheres that necropost gif when you need it?

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

its not a pain to level another class,

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I disagree. It is. Leveling archer to get my black mage was one of the most stupid and annoying things I've ever had to do on a video game.

But to address the OP: yes, essentially it is holding back the team not to have it. But so is a person dying in the first place so that they need a raise. So you can look at this from both sides of the coin. But in any case, if players don't want to level THM for swift cast they shouldn't feel forced too. They pay for their accounts, and they are entitled to play as they want as a result.

It's not a huge deal either way.

Actually I'd say the person who always needs to be swiftcast+raised is more of the problem don't you think?

swiftcast is absolutely vital to healers endgame, and not for rez. most fights post titan hm dont really allow much room for rezzing anyways unless your healers are really good. however, swiftcasted succor, adlo, cure 2, or medica are game changers when dealing with hard hitting raid targets, to say otherwise is just simply foolish.

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Originally Posted by Slambo

If I'm casting raise YOU are doing it wrong. you show me a fight with a guaranteed 1 shot to someone (every time) and I'll agree with you though.

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Oh hush, errors happen to the best of us.

Not to mention swiftcast Cure II/III/Medica II etc.