Please Stop Crying About Personal Gil Insufficiency Issues.

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oh so im such a terrible person for helping people right? how exactly am i such a bad person because im trying to encourage people to try harder so they dont spoil it for the others? god forbid someone has a right sense of moral decency.

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Dwight, you sir are not moral, you are self righteous. People should be able to play the game how they want. You want to craft to make money and find that fun? Good for you. Other people should be able to do dungeons and make money as well, that is not the case as it is now.

Funny too that you are calling people lazy when you haven't even hit 50 yet lol...to busy crafting I guess haha

Thankfully by the time you hit 50, Gil generation might actually be fine.

A game is supposed to be played by the players, by their own ways & at their own pace, especially with MMOs. No one has the right to tell them they're lazy asses for not spending more time on the game doing things that they completely have no interest of. And before you say that means they have no interest in playing this game, then no. Crafting/gathering is always a side aspect of every MMORPGs, & the main largest content is always PvE, or PvP. And a lot of ppl enjoy doing just that. That's their right.

And if any games prevent them from continue playing their ways by making them go broke, that's a complete failure.
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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

if your server ecomony is bad is becuase everyone on your server is just doing fates.. gaining extreme xp and little gil, because poeple dont balance gameplay

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So FATE are far and away the best XP and yet it's PEOPLE who need to balance gameplay and not SE?

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Originally Posted by Rydin

So FATE are far and away the best XP and yet it's PEOPLE who need to balance gameplay and not SE?

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yes either you go and get XP or you go and get gil.. balance your gameplay with what you have.. i asure you that people will complain if the lower xp gain from fates and add a gil counterpart. because fates are for XP not gil. but since thats everything everyone does to rush to 50. they want to get lots of gil too.

people have options in this game... but they just want to do 1 and that it profits all needs.. xp gear gil.. all doing the same thing..

What do we have to do to get gils please ?
Leves ? limited number.
Fates ? well you say nop.
What else ?
(don't tell me AH / selling what you harvest to the npc. I mean making gils at least like a new lvl 10)

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Originally Posted by Keoregh

What do we have to do to get gils please ?
Leves ? limited number.
Fates ? well you say nop.
What else ?
(don't tell me AH / selling what you harvest to the npc. I mean making gils at least like a new lvl 10)

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guildhest, they are fast.. and reward gil.

try it. set a party of 4.. and spam duty finder guildhests.. you gil have a nice gil income rate

thats 2k-3k gil x 4 every 5/10 min pouring into the server economy

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

YES, i do. the gil creation is perfectly fine. Just do a ton of Leves with your allowances, sell allagans and vendor sell crap you dont need, you and the server economy will be fine.

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The amount of Gil earned by each player via leves is very limited both in amount paid out and rate it can be run in a given time period. More importantly, players do not participate in activities to improve the server's economy - they do what is best for their individual bottom line.

IMO, people who rely on NPC vendor and leves as their primary source of income are not very good at making money.

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plus theres tons of people leveling up new classes all the time doing quests throughout the game, they those add plenty of new gil.

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This has been repeated ad nauseum, quests are a finite source of income.

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seriously, just get off your lazy arse and run some dang leves!!!! they give plenty of money at level 50.

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Your definition of "plenty of money" day differs greatly with mine. Running leves to "make" money on the other hand is definitely a waste of my time - why would I want to spend hours making 10, 20k Gil when I can spend 30 min and make hundreds of thousands?

".... More importantly, players do not participate in activities to improve the server's economy ...."

^this

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

guildhest, they are fast.. and reward gil.

try it. set a party of 4.. and spam duty finder guildhests.. you gil have a nice gil income rate

thats 2k-3k gil x 4 every 5/10 min pouring into the server economy

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I've just checked : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yL_wZ9chTA
The highest guildleve for 4 players (lvl 40) gives 240 gils.
Ok it's quick. But seriously, 240 gils ?
I mean, why would I do this when lvl 30 quest gives so much more ?
THIS is the problem, currently a lvl 30 can GENERATE so much more money than a lvl 50.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

".... More importantly, players do not participate in activities to improve the server's economy ...."

^this

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What a pinky world you guys are living in... are you seriously putting a cake on the internet & expect ppl not to eat it?

Well, some MMOs did try to do that before... and guess what? They failed miserably.
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Originally Posted by AsakuraVN

What a pinky world you guys are living in... are you seriously putting a cake on the internet & expect ppl not to eat it?

Well, some MMOs did try to do that before... and guess what? They failed miserably.
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EVE online has a good player set economy... and i dont recall all mobs dropping currency up and down like a chocolate fountain

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

EVE online has a good player set economy... and i dont recall all mobs dropping currency up and down like a chocolate fountain

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Uh, have you been in Incursions? That's not a fountain, it's a waterfall. Also, lv4 missions are by far and away the largest isk fountain in Eve per CCP, so actually yes, "mob" in Eve drops currency all over the place.

Not sure why you'd use Eve as an example of a limited money creation economy, personally I feel that inflation is actually a touch too high in Eve atm.

I recently had a tank make an AK run take 2x longer because he wanted to save 500 Gil on repairs. Now, you might think "another speed run fight" but no, instead of using his AF gear, he switched to white gear, took all his accessories off, and tried to tank like that. Needless to say it did not end well and we wiped, then the healer leaves, we find another, etc all in all what could have been a 20 minute run turned into an 80 minute one; over 500 Gil.

I would say this inadvertently affects everyone, because people are extremely stupid and being poor only amplifies stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Matthew_John

Dwight, you sir are not moral, you are self righteous. People should be able to play the game how they want. You want to craft to make money and find that fun? Good for you. Other people should be able to do dungeons and make money as well, that is not the case as it is now.

Funny too that you are calling people lazy when you haven't even hit 50 yet lol...to busy crafting I guess haha

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Lol touche my friend, i guess i have more of a knack for crafting then the combat in this game, mainly because the combat design and challenge is very lacking and doesnt stimulate me as much as ff11 did. At this point im more optimized on Crafting and farming content because its the most challenging and applying feature of the game apparently.

I grew up always having to give my very best, and the game just feels like its promoting laziness as best as it can X: Duty Finder...? yes its handy but thanks to how accessable it is, it has smited down the very idea of this game ever having the chance of people needing to communicate. Granted... I am aware that the DF can supply terrible members, as said by many Level 50s, and im sure they are right. But the fact of the matter is, is that its there ,and its designed to attract players to use it, because its easier. (but thats a whole different topic.)

But lastly, im sorry if i have upset or offended anyone. i just really dont want this game to cause developers to cave in :/

QQ money QQ gil QQ we wantz moar. Holy hell this goes on and on like a broken record.

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Originally Posted by Itchyness

QQ money QQ gil QQ we wantz moar. Holy hell this goes on and on like a broken record.

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So do stupid comments like yours that keep missing the point.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

I grew up always having to give my very best, and the game just feels like its promoting laziness as best as it can X: Duty Finder...? yes its handy but thanks to how accessable it is, it has smited down the very idea of this game ever having the chance of people needing to communicate.

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You're confusing accessibility with difficulty. A game can be accessible and hard at the same time. Saying that putting together a group should be as difficult as possible does not make the actual content more challenging, it only makes the entire process frustrating. For example, it would be akin to someone saying configurable UI and key binding should not be in the game because it makes things "too easy".

The bit about negating the need for communication also doesn't pan out. What exactly does DF do that gets rid of the need to communicate?

"I know
Caught up in the middle
I cry just a little
When I think could let it go
Oh no
Gave up on the riddle
I cry just a little
When I think could let it go"

The repair cost isn't a problem for me having a 50 wvr already, just gotta repair jewelry, weapon, and a few leatherworker pieces here and there at the npc. But that being said, I can see how it can be a problem for new players, with no gil, and no crafts, I have a 50 btn, and a 50 wvr, I can make money, I spend about 80k gil a day right now ><, but they can't, until they get those things up, which they don't have time to do now if they're seriously running endgame. All I can say, until they put fix the repair cost, if you're in a better FC, ask them to put up the "proper care" buff, if most of you are running end game and they don't have that buff up, tell them to do it, it does help.

It's common sense that a pre made party will always be better than a DF random party, and some content requires a premade (most post 50 content is not Random party friendly or can't even be done in DF).

But sometimes, people want to just get off work and not spend 6 hours they could be playing shouting in chat because they don't have any friends online, and most of that would be done just to progress the story. Most things at endgame people shout for anyway, our party is no less random than it was with DF, we may or may not talk to each other, just like with DF. Only difference being is these are people from my own server and the people shouting can control what jobs are in the party and who gets kicked for doing bad.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

Lol touche my friend, i guess i have more of a knack for crafting then the combat in this game, mainly because the combat design and challenge is very lacking and doesnt stimulate me as much as ff11 did. At this point im more optimized on Crafting and farming content because its the most challenging and applying feature of the game apparently.

I grew up always having to give my very best, and the game just feels like its promoting laziness as best as it can X: Duty Finder...? yes its handy but thanks to how accessable it is, it has smited down the very idea of this game ever having the chance of people needing to communicate. Granted... I am aware that the DF can supply terrible members, as said by many Level 50s, and im sure they are right. But the fact of the matter is, is that its there ,and its designed to attract players to use it, because its easier. (but thats a whole different topic.)

But lastly, im sorry if i have upset or offended anyone. i just really dont want this game to cause developers to cave in :/

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The way I'm seeing it is that the majority of the people that only do combat classes aren't asking for free gil raining from the sky to buy luxuries, they're asking for enough money from combat activities to pay for the ability to continue to participate in those combat activities. This isn't laziness, and in fact it's leading to what I would consider laziness. Some examples are:

1. It is currently more cost efficient to DIE and be raised to skip the majority of the trash in a dungeon because the item wear from actually killing that trash is greater than the item wear from DIEING. This is absolutely balls insane and in any other game would be considered lazy. In this game it's your best bet if you want to be fiscally responsible.
2. It is currently more cost efficient to do Fates naked than it is to wear your normal armor. Even though it's harder and takes longer and reduces your ability to contribute, it's the fiscally responsible thing to do. This is also nuts.
3. This can actually be extended to most farming efforts, including wearing old armor/partially naked for gathering. It applies to dungeons, fates, leves, guildhests, and just killing mobs outright. In order to be fiscally responsible, you have to wear non optimal gear as the cost of participation is so high.
4. Considering the cost of participation is so high, what are the chances that someone is going to participate in an activity that they need nothing from to help others out? Not zero, but its going to be in the back of most peoples minds that going and spending an hour helping some folks out with old instances/quests is going to cost me another 2 hours of farming to repair my gear.
5. It's sometimes more fiscally responsible to trash gear that's about to break and just create/buy/grind new gear than it is to repair that gear. That's insane. A car that costs more in maintenance than it's actually worth is called a lemon, almost every drop in the game would be considered that.

I consider not necessarily the repair COST to be the problem, but the rate of decay on item degradation to be the issue. Especially the rate of decay during success compared to failure.

Though the reduction in repair cost may end up alleviating the current issues my suggestions for improving the system would be:

1. Drastically reduce the item degradation from success (IE not dieing) - 1/4 of current rate, or reduce the actions that cause it
2. Raise the item degradation from failure (IE death) - Currently at about 4%? kick it up to 10%. Objective of this is to make death something to be avoided as the cost of it is now so much higher than success.
3. Reassess the actual cost of repairing items, though not until the effect of #1 is examined.
4. Finally, reassess gil income at 50. It's perfectly fine to make it mandatory to either participate in crafting or create new characters to farm quests to be able to afford luxuries or the best purchasable gear, but the cost of successful participation in level 50 combat should not outweigh the gain from successfully completing that combat.

In summary, if you want to get the best stuff and be the shiniest, you should have to participate in Crafting and/or the player economy. If you just want to keep your gear repaired, you should just have to not fail at content the majority of the time.

But until then, my best piece of advice for people that need gil at 50 now is to level up a crafter and do HQ turn ins for your crafting leves. At 40 armorer I'm currently turning in HQ mithril ingots for the exp and getting 900 gil a pop along with 75-90% of the mats I need to make them back. 6 times a day is 5400 gil with little investment in materials or time. Once I'm 50 and can spare more mats, I'll have the option of turning in the 3fers 3 times for a single leve. Which I'm guessing are a potential 20k+ npc profit each day depending on the cost of the mats.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Literally no one is talking about personal wealth. Using the AH removes gil from the game. Please educate yourself and learn to read.

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This. OP congrats on your level 32 with 500 gil repair bills. At 50 were paying around 5k per repair cycle and gaining about 10 gil in that time period unless we play the market and take gil from ignorant people like you who pay us a repair bill worth of gil for a lvl 20 item.

So in a month when your broke as hell and can't repair because you thought 150k was going to get you somewhere. Come back and tell us how your doing.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

This. OP congrats on your level 32 with 500 gil repair bills. At 50 were paying around 5k per repair cycle and gaining about 10 gil in that time period unless we play the market and take gil from ignorant people like you who pay us a repair bill worth of gil for a lvl 20 item.

So in a month when your broke as hell and can't repair because you thought 150k was going to get you somewhere. Come back and tell us how your doing.

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if you ever played any ff game.. you know 150k is nothing...1 gil is like a penny...lol

5k per repair can be paid with a couple of low level guieldhest runs... in 10 min or less..
also they said they lower endgame repairs in this maintenance. so people that dont know how to make gil dont have it so hard and people that to can have moar!

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

if you ever played any ff game.. you know 150k is nothing...1 gil is like a penny...lol

5k per repair can be paid with a couple of low level guieldhest runs... in 10 min or less..
also they said they lower endgame repairs in this maintenance. so people that dont know how to make gil dont have it so hard and people that to can have moar!

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I keep seeing Legacy players mention guildhest runs for gil, are they getting payed more on their servers or have they just not queued in 2.0 yet and seen how much they actually give now? Or is there actually a way to reset the first run bonus?

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Originally Posted by Pylfer

/Snip

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Here in lies the issue as a gatherer in 2 classes nearing end levels. In 1.0 I liked I could create gil in vendoring items I gathered as a side income. From a whole perspective having most items that can/could be vendored worth nest to nothing makes bring new gil to the economy very difficult. Kudos Pylfer in explaining this. Problem is common sense is at an all time low these days on the forums or we are just getting trolled that hard . . . . one or the other.

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Originally Posted by CianaIezuborn

I keep seeing Legacy players mention guildhest runs for gil, are they getting payed more on their servers or have they just not queued in 2.0 yet and seen how much they actually give now? Or is there actually a way to reset the first run bonus?

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Yep all mine are 100 to 300 highest. Would love some 1k ghs.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

if you ever played any ff game.. you know 150k is nothing...1 gil is like a penny...lol

5k per repair can be paid with a couple of low level guieldhest runs... in 10 min or less..
also they said they lower endgame repairs in this maintenance. so people that dont know how to make gil dont have it so hard and people that to can have moar!

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Out of curiosity, do you actually play this game anymore? Or do you just happen to have a legacy character?

I ask this because 1) you seem to think guildhests give substantial gil on anything other than the first completion (they don't) and 2) you seem to think repairing manually costs less somehow than vendor repairing (it's about equivalent).

gil hasnt really been a problem for me! I actually plan to do a gill guide later...i have made 10+ mill since first two weeks but i have crafts leveled and im on legacy so that might make a huge difference but a person should be able to net 500k + a day with a normal job not including crafting

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Originally Posted by Drakzen1

gil hasnt really been a problem for me! I actually plan to do a gill guide later...i have made 10+ mill since first two weeks but i have crafts leveled and im on legacy so that might make a huge difference but a person should be able to net 500k + a day with a normal job not including crafting

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I keep hoping these threads will die since SE announced that they'll be changing repair costs. However, your post has intrigued me. I would really, really like to know how a player can net 500k per day without crafting.

*Sits and turns undivided attention to Drakzen*

I'm waiting.....

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Originally Posted by Drakzen1

gil hasnt really been a problem for me! I actually plan to do a gill guide later...i have made 10+ mill since first two weeks but i have crafts leveled and im on legacy so that might make a huge difference but a person should be able to net 500k + a day with a normal job not including crafting

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Mmmm.. the magic words you have spoken. Legacy. Where all the legacy players came over with huge loads of money.
If your guide includes anything with, " Craft this, or gather this and sell on Market Board. " Then you missed the point as to whats the actual problem endgame. NOt meaning to give offense, just tired.
Thank god maintence is lowering repair costs. I can finally be able to break even on trying to keep up with my wife on her Ambador Keep/Palace spam.

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

I keep hoping these threads will die since SE announced that they'll be changing repair costs. However, your post has intrigued me. I would really, really like to know how a player can net 500k per day without crafting.

*Sits and turns undivided attention to Drakzen*

I'm waiting.....

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He already said the reason. Legacy server. From what I hear and understand, legacy players are sitting on huggeeee piles of money from 1.0 so they're willing to by things on Market for prices any of us on non legacy would die of a heart attack at seeing.

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Originally Posted by Leonas

He already said the reason. Legacy server. From what I hear and understand, legacy players are sitting on huggeeee piles of money from 1.0 so they're willing to by things on Market for prices any of us on non legacy would die of a heart attack at seeing.

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But he said 'not including crafting'

That's what makes me so curious ^^

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

But he said 'not including crafting'

That's what makes me so curious ^^

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Maybe legacy players are willing to spend ginormous amounts of just straight materials ( Gatherer, not craft. ) and/or the materials from palace. Those by themselves sell for 10k on Ultros at certain times. Only way I've been able to keep afloat of the repairs depleting my savings.

Honestly, I see no other way unless its just wildly faked numbers. ;p

the whole point of this thread is if you are having a problem with somthing in the game, dont whine about it, get up and do somthing about it. maybe im wrong about somthing things, i dont care, but i strongly believe that whining for the developers to cave in is not a good solution and im tired of it ruining mmorpgs, it practically annihilated final fantasy 11.

i really dont want this game to get.. *gasp* abyssea'd.

the worst thing you could possibly ever do to a video game ever recorded.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

the whole point of this thread is if you are having a problem with somthing in the game, dont whine about it, get up and do somthing about it.

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I've been gathering and crafting and *gasp* it doesn't matter when people crash the market on items trying to sell their stuff faster than you.

It's like in real life. Get a job or you will be poor for the rest of your life.

The gil created through crafting/gathering levequests is fairly significant, I wouldn't count that out just yet. This is a huge gil fountain, pumping gil into the economy. A ton of levequest turn in items sell for a pittance on the marketplace or are really easy to gather/craft. That should keep the economy rather stable alongside the new character generated gil from questing. Would need to give it time to determine if this is sufficient or not to prohibit a market crash.

The only quests I've done are the main story and all the quests below level 20. Haven't even touched these other gil generating quests yet and am having no trouble with income. I am at endgame and have been dealing with the repair costs too. I just happen to do a few things on the side to make gil.

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Originally Posted by ShikiRin

It's like in real life. Get a job or you will be poor for the rest of your life.

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I have a job in real life.
I don't want a job in a game.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

I've been gathering and crafting and *gasp* it doesn't matter when people crash the market on items trying to sell their stuff faster than you.

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That is not what market crashing is.... that's just an increase in supply. Please do not give advice on Economics while using the wrong terms and spreading misinformation

secondly with the reduction in the repair goldsink the personal wealth level of an individual should always be in a gain. if you are poor because you are vending and not selling items on the marketplace that you "Loot" then that is your own fault. As far as people complaining that they do not want a "Job" in the game. this game was centered around the idea of a self controlled player run market system, where crafters would be a major influence. If you do not like that mentality you chose the wrong game. that is a core part of this game, and you may find yourself more entertained in a different game with a system more suited to your preference.

market crashing
Web definitions

(Market crash) A stock market crash is a sudden dramatic decline of stock prices across a significant cross-section of a stock market, resulting in a significant loss of paper wealth. Crashes are driven by panic as much as by underlying economic factors