dev1031 You are losing your main playerbase by making things too easy/fast/casual

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Focant

Frankly going out with my ls and killing all the NMs is the most fun I've had in AGES in XIV, and we weren't even really doing it for the drops. Things are moving along and I'm enjoying the game more and more as they do.

Also I love that it feels like I'm skipping over these flame post like they were ads haha.

---

My linkshell is loving them as well <3 I think it was a good thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griever

I just want challenging fights/content to make the game fun, and atm there isn't any challenge IMHO.

---

This to me, is the very essence of what a game should be about. They need to make the game more exciting to play.

I think the problem right now is that they have yet to finish and release the battle/class overhaul, so they're pretty limited in what they can give us for content at the moment. I think (hope) we'll see some pretty cool things added after that's done and ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i was one compalining that it should have been released to them back then. the problem with last patch is the same as this one. it catered to only one group. i do not see where it matters which group is being ignored because it is not right either way. btw you show me where the higher group was given 20 nm's at one time and i will agree.

the point is 20 nm's were released at one time and 0 went to the higher level group. even if it was only 2-5 went for the higher range you would not hear the complaints you hear now. they not only did that, but they have made the high level nm's horribly easy. they were already being lowmanned and now it is even more so since it takes only around 5-6 people to even kill the harder super big nm's now.

---

You don't really seem to understand that what the development team is doing right now.
First: They are not adding content for you to enjoy, regardless of what PR letter you read from Yoshi, regardless of what forum moderator expressed interest, and regardless of lodestone/fansites/etc. say, they are still not adding this content for you.

This is a broken and incomplete game. They are fixing it. None of the stuff they are adding is to please or offend any of you. 80% of their starting player base is gone. They don't care if they lose anyone currently playing the game. Please understand that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

bu..bu..but.. you haven't even played it... how could you possibly have any opinion on it? your opinion is LITERALLY based off of what other people have said...

This forum was designed so that only people who are part of the current player base would be able to post... yet you've sneaked through the system....

---

i own the game and if my pc didn't die launch day. I would be playing it. But I'm as much as the target SE trying to get as the current player base. I know a fun game when I see one. I can't comment on ffxiv currently, but it like other stuff it is just a game. Anyone should be able to play. And I want a fun game also. Amd by fun I mean fun for all players we don't need this whole hardcore vs casual war. It also serves to lower the playerbase. A good portion of ppl stop doing endgame in ffxi due to the "elitism" and the loot drama. We need content that will be fun for everyone. The less ppl who can or willing to do the content, the less ingeneral get to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mug

This to me, is the very essence of what a game should be about. They need to make the game more exciting to play.

I think the problem right now is that they have yet to finish and release the battle/class overhaul, so they're pretty limited in what they can give us for content at the moment. I think (hope) we'll see some pretty cool things added after that's done and ready.

---

I don't think that will be an issue SE knows how to make thing challenging... Just as long as this nice challenging content is open for everyone. We shouldn't have any issues bringing in players.

i think this patch just make rebalance btw party system and NM just for buy sometime for SE to release other Content. i looking forward about grand Comp~ event -3-... hope not stupid just 1 run clear or bored mission.. i need hard core fight like dynamis or bahamut fight...miss something all wipe 23hr lost free i love it lol give me some excite back 'A'r SE

This game needs content in general. SE isn't making the game for just who is currently playing, they are also making a game to sell and have ppl buy it and play. The more content we have the better. And if all that content is open to more types of players, the better.

Again this hardcore vs casual is getting a bit old. We all bought this game, we all want to have fun. Lets be open to anything devs add. The more open the content is possible the more players will want to buy and play.

Like I said my stance is i'm for anything being added that will bring in the subs.

I disagree with the op,I played XI for 5 years and to this day its my favorite game of all time(nostalgia)but I must say I believe this game will ultimately surpass it.I cant wait to see where this game is a year from now and expect BIG things from it,until then I will enjoy the ride.

Casual players get bored and move on? This is inevitable, REALLY? My experience is exactly the opposite, as a casual player I'm always the last to leave a game while my more driven friends have long gone to new MMOs to beat the content there. I've taken a lot longer to get things done and poured money into MMOs for expansions and content I'll get to see the year after it's released.... My dedication has nothing to do with my playstyle, please revise this opinion dear OP.

This game is undergoing a HUGE redirection right now, you cannot reasonably expect everything to fall into place within a few months if you have even a measure of how long gaming development takes. I don't think it's their style to release a huge patch with a lot of content in it, instead we progressively get more stuff in smaller dosages but more often. If you wanted to wait until high level NMs were done, chocobos and companies for example you'd be waiting longer then you are now and guess what you will STILL be complaining that it isn't going fast enough.

Let's be hopeful that things are actually getting done, this game doesn't have a sub for a reason they don't expect to treat you as a paying customer yet or babysit any particular type of player while they are busy getting this game in shape.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shneibel

and base from where if I may ask ? as I meet wow player quitting the game at other mmo forum, so w/o solid of info of wow is growing, I wont belive it.

---

Base on how every single expansion they increase their playerbase by a few millions, thats MILLIONS! And we can all agree that in World of Warcraft the hardcore crowd it's a very very small minority, if tomorrow blizzard woke up, and only had their hardcore crowd as it's only subscription income, they would close doors :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I don't think that will be an issue SE knows how to make thing challenging... Just as long as this nice challenging content is open for everyone. We shouldn't have any issues bringing in players.

---

i agree with you except on one thing, SE does goes overboard in making some content impossible hard, just for it being impossible hard, if they can keep from repeating that, its all good

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I don't think that will be an issue SE knows how to make thing challenging... Just as long as this nice challenging content os open for everyone. We should have any issues bringing in players.

---

It all comes down to how people define the word "challenge". For some people it means adding things like NM's with long repop times and low droprates. For others (most people I assume) it means giving them content that relies on actual skill and strategy than how much time they have available. The latter can cater to both casual and hardcore gamers, depending on how easy it is to access.

No thanks.

I'm done with my absolute virtue days and camping NMs for several hours. Don't need that crap anymore.

I think your opinion is all in your head, OP. SE isn't losing players. If anything, they'll gain more players. Not everybody has time to dedicate to an MMO anymore, especially since FFXI veterans that play this game are within the 20-30 age range. People have jobs and other things to attend to. Creating a game that is just as hard and time consuming as it's predecessor is a bad move, and also blocks out a lot of people from playing due to important events in real life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ostia

Base on how every single expansion they increase their playerbase by a few millions, thats MILLIONS! And we can all agree that in World of Warcraft the hardcore crowd it's a very very small minority, if tomorrow blizzard woke up, and only had their hardcore crowd as it's only subscription income, they would close doors :)

---

Not that this discussion belongs here, but WoW lost players with Cata. Not enough to shut them down. It would take the Titanic to do that.

Ironically, they lost those players partially by "catering to the minority of hardcores", according to many of the quitting posts. Then when they started nerfing, people quit because they were "catering to the casuals". The rest were "bored with the game", due to lack of new content.

Bottom line is, I'm tired of hearing the casual vs.hardcore argument. I move to a new game, and they follow me. :(

I just want the game to be fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chezen

I just want the game to be fun.

---

Why can't anybody else think like you..!? ><

Oh and for those complaining that the NMs drop too easy.. I think you have been lucky.. we tried for long to get our drops today..

although i only prefer playing with hardcore players, there shouldnt be a reason for anyone and everyone to enjoy content on their off time.
ill happily play casually till they add actual hardcore reasons to play such as endgame. im sorry but killing open world NMs should never be considered endgame. who wants to crowd around 1 mob for a half hour spamming your attacks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chezen

Not that this discussion belongs here, but WoW lost players with Cata. Not enough to shut them down. It would take the Titanic to do that.

Ironically, they lost those players partially by "catering to the minority of hardcores", according to many of the quitting posts. Then when they started nerfing, people quit because they were "catering to the casuals". The rest were "bored with the game", due to lack of new content.

Bottom line is, I'm tired of hearing the casual vs.hardcore argument. I move to a new game, and they follow me. :(

I just want the game to be fun.

---

Warcraft loses players every single time a "Wow killer" releases, then 2-3 months later, they reclaim those lost players plus some more, it's been that way since release, if you really really think cata lost blizzard customers, then you don't know wtf you are talking about, i play wow, i'm not playing right now, but i'm still paying them $14.99 a M.O. And the nerfs, are not really nerfs, is just that people dont know wtf they are talking about :)

What a luck that I can enjoy this Game, yes even in its current state, without Rage or whine because there isnt any Content where you have to Camp all day for a drop rate of 0000,1%.
This game took 5 years until release and you expect a complete re-design in a few months?
You should try a real Hardcore "Game" its called reality, its not easy to change something that failed at release and this game isnt free for fun.
I can understand all the complain about Challenging Content but stop those "its all the Casuals fault" Bullsh...
Honestly i heard and read that the FF Community claim to be more mature than like WoW...I wouldnt agree with that at the moment.
Blaming a certain group is just stupid, SE makes the Game and when they decide to make it more Casual than you have to bear it, just like the Casuals have to bear it that FFXI was/is more "Hardcore" (Timeconsuming).

I want challenging Content too, I want Impressive and Godlike Creatures where every move can decide the outcome it has to be intense.
But I dont want to Camp 24/7 just for an item with a drop rate of like 1% and I dont what it do be served on a silver tablet.
This is still a game, so it should be Challenging because it is not a Holiday Simulation.
But this Game doesnt really offer anything of that to actually complain about the difficult.
And I dont think that Death/EXP loss is Hardcore its just timeconsuming it adds nothing to the challenge, no one wants to die, it doesnt matter if you get punished or not.
The battle system will be changed anyway, even though I like the system it needs more more Tactic but its also a problem with the monster having all a range attack and more important the nee ford defined Classes.

Yes it wanted to be totally different than FFXI, guess what? its because it was not supposed to be a Clone, its a new Game.
Do you buy everything with the label Final Fantasy and thinking its always the same?
After 14 Games you should know better.

Well i dont care wich direction it will go i just want to have fun, I have fun with the Game because of great people.
And if it has a direction I dont lik, I just quit and wait for another Game i might like but at the moment I have nothing to Complain exept the lack of (Challenging)Content.

Isn't it lovely when someone just arbitrarily decides that he's the "main playerbase"?

Sorry mate, doesn't work like that. It's for developers and publishers to chose the target of a game. Not for you.

This game needs to appease as many people as possible to pick up, not to a small minority of fossilized hardcore gamers blinded by the nostalgia for surpassed and absolutely boring timesinks and grinds that will push everyone else away.

It's called priorities. And making the game absolutely boring isn't a priority,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by solracht

Stopped reading right here.

I do not agree neither with a full-casual game, or with 5min NM repops, but this game was announced as a casual game since we first heard about it. I knew this game would probably have the bar a little lower than I wanted, but I chose to play regardless.

The only entitlement in these forums comes from the so-called hardcore players, who joined the wrong game, and now want it reshaped for them. You are not the main target. You never were, and this isn't changing. Just get out now.

You guys were told this game was going to be for casuals and for people who wanted to advance without playing much since the very beginning. The fact that you joined when you were in such disagreement with the direction you were told the game was made with makes you either really dumb or oblivious to the media (which doesn't make you any less dumb, should read about what you buy).

All of you people who act like FFs were anything like FFXI should just get the fuck out aswell. FFXI was the way it was because it was made to copy the giant MMO back in the day, which was Everquest. Has nothing to do with FF roots, and in fact the saga has only gotten easier since the FF NES titles barring optional bosses in some installments. Try replaying any of them now that you don't have the intelligence of a 10 year old (literally), it'll blow your mind.

The reason I brought this up is because this game is also directed at the FF player (or will be at some point, rather), someone different than the FFXI player. You are not the FF players they're aiming for, deal with it.

In before any of you try to argue that this game failed because it catered to casual gamers (which wasn't even true when the game came out). Preemptive fucking lol.

---

Signed and agreed. There are games with harcore content for hardcore players out there (WoW, Aion, FFXI). FFXIV production crew isn't going to focus on the hardcore before the casual.

ffxi was a nich game
it is also gowing through a sercond server merge.
WoW is open for everyone
it never had a marge even if it looses 1/2 the players it the sub count will still be at least 1mil.

I much rather ffxiv become popular. We need subs so people do not have to wait hours for a party. Or to find people to do missions, or find people to form a Linkshell.
ffxi was all about waiting long hours to even get players. Sure they cam form a party, if there were actual players to form a group with, who had the jobs you needed.

sorry my vote is for a fun popular game.
not a kinda boring nich ga,e where even with a long play time I still couldn't do much.

Square enix trying to make a western MMO = an abomination of all styles of MMOs. Stick with what you know build on your originality of FFXI. If dungeons don't have an interesting dynamic to them like Salvage/Dynamis/Nyzul Isle etc etc.... and is instead a single path of trash mobs until you get to each boss, im uninstalling.

@ sol and rai
that is true i was following ffxiv for a while, and I was happy it was going to be a and these are tanaka words "a less time consuming game"
I have time to play ffxi but even I agree some events took to long to get through. Dynamis comes to mind. fun event anyone had acess to it. But the runs were long. When i did dynamis my LS i was in for a mnth was 11pm gather and the run would end about 1-2am. I was pretty mucg falling asleep. My exb/f who played ffxi, has a full time job but always played ffxi when he got home till he went to bed. And due to a sleeping issue he couldn't do dynamis like he wanted to. : / He was lucky to do a few runs but due to his work and needing a sleep sced. he could do alot of ffxi content. And he wasn't what you call a casual player. He started ffxi in pc launch, ran his own LS (that was huge) and help anyone and everyone. He was well liked on oyr server also, it seemed EVEREYONE knew him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Technyze

Square enix trying to make a western MMO = an abomination of all styles of MMOs. Stick with what you know build on your originality of FFXI. If dungeons don't have an interesting dynamic to them like Salvage/Dynamis/Nyzul Isle etc etc.... and is instead a single path of trash mobs until you get to each boss, im uninstalling.

---

you know that isn't true, kindly stop with this silly attcks its getting old now.
And fyi, dynamis, and just about every rpg including ff games and dungeons set up like that. A single path thing filled with trash mobs till you get to the final boss.
You can dress it up with stuff like nyzul isle but it still basically the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

@ sol and rai
that is true i was following ffxiv for a while, and I was happy it was going to be a and these are tanaka words "a less time consuming game"
I have time to play ffxi but even I agree some events took to long to get through. Dynamis comes to mind. fun event anyone had acess to it. But the runs were long. When i did dynamis my LS i was in for a mnth was 11pm gather and the run would end about 1-2am. I was pretty mucg falling asleep. My exb/f who played ffxi, has a full time job but always played ffxi when he got home till he went to bed. And due to a sleeping issue he couldn't do dynamis like he wanted to. : / He was lucky to do a few runs but due to his work and needing a sleep sced. he could do alot of ffxi content. And he wasn't what you call a casual player. He started ffxi in pc launch, ran his own LS (that was huge) and help anyone and everyone. He was well liked on oyr server also, it seemed EVEREYONE knew him.

---

*copypasted for emphasis

There were a lot of 'hardcore' players who loved ffxi. Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean everyone did. Please stop with your sob story. These forums are the worst thing that happened to this game.. honestly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moth

*copypasted for emphasis

There were a lot of 'hardcore' players who loved ffxi. Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean everyone did. Please stop with your sob story. These forums are the worst thing that happened to this game.. honestly.

---

its not a sob story.... you "hardcore" are asking for stuff for your play time. I'm under that same if not more play time flag. And there just not enough players to do the content with.
that was the truth.

I'm a hardcore player who played ffxi

I stopped because I didn't have the time or interest to slave for millions of gil.

Ffxiv is a welcome change for me. I have no interest in seeing it become another ffxi. I want to be part of a community, not simply a bunch of railroaders to cap. If you can't find enough in the game for you after leveling multiple jobs, maybe its not your game, so much as your gameplay.

There's a world out there, you know. The game is designed to be more than just end game activities. Take it in, man!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

I'm a hardcore player who played ffxi

I stopped because I didn't have the time or interest to slave for millions of gil.

Ffxiv is a welcome change for me. I have no interest in seeing it become another ffxi. I want to be part of a community, not simply a bunch of railroaders to cap. If you can't find enough in the game for you after leveling multiple jobs, maybe its not your game, so much as your gameplay.

There's a world out there, you know. The game is designed to be more than just end game activities. Take it in, man!

---

i agree pretty much as I'm the same. minus I didn't quit ffxi yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

Oh I LOVE the fact they added 20 low level NMs with gear drops for low levels, I hate the fact they're 3-5 min respawns with decent drop rates, meaning the content won't last long at all.

---

What it means is that there's no repeats of Leaping Lizzie where half the people in the zone where /anon campers that were basically looking to outclaim each other for prolonged amounts of time because of the crappy drop rate on the leaping boots. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to return to days like that.

Going to the hardcore thing, I think of stuff like this whenever hardcore is brought up. And I agree, Everquest is up there and a large contributor to FFXI's design philosophy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ostia

Warcraft loses players every single time a "Wow killer" releases, then 2-3 months later, they reclaim those lost players plus some more, it's been that way since release, if you really really think cata lost blizzard customers, then you don't know wtf you are talking about, i play wow, i'm not playing right now, but i'm still paying them $14.99 a M.O. And the nerfs, are not really nerfs, is just that people dont know wtf they are talking about :)

---

You cannot prove this anymore than I can prove they did lose customers. I only know what I observe. I can assure you, they have not reclaimed me. I also never refered to a "WoW killer". I refered to Cata itself.

But that's not really the point of my statement. My point is all of the flack people throw around. There is no reason to have "sides". There's no reason to fight and bicker with each other, especially so much that it completely ruins a game for everybody.

Edit: What I would really like to see, is everyone working together to give feedback that help the devs make a game everyone can enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chezen

My point is all of the flack people throw around. There is no reason to have "sides". There's no reason to fight and bicker with each other, especially so much that it completely ruins a game for everybody.

---

pretty much this

As someone who does play the game:

Kitta is right like 90% of the time. More than I can say about some of the other people who play this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Technyze

Square enix trying to make a western MMO = an abomination of all styles of MMOs. Stick with what you know build on your originality of FFXI. If dungeons don't have an interesting dynamic to them like Salvage/Dynamis/Nyzul Isle etc etc.... and is instead a single path of trash mobs until you get to each boss, im uninstalling.

---

Yeah same, I'm going to probably quit instantly if I see anything like this x_x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

Yeah same, I'm going to probably quit instantly if I see anything like this x_x

---

go right ahead, your not doing the game community any favors but trying to cause uneeded drama between the player base.

suggestion take a break from gaming. Your letting hate of 1 mmo cloud your mind and make you out in being a "d" itch.

again dynamis WAS INFACT a signle path dungeon (just with a huge path) killing trash mobs till you reached a single boss. infact, most of the ffxi quests and missions were like that.

square should stick to what they do best not try so hard to take other mmo's players cuz there not. they sure aint gaining new ones, but they can keep the loyals.
even when ffxi had problems i could play for hours, ffxiv after you do the leves theres nothing else, i havent quit or will quit unless they stick to keeping the game mindless and your character is a god cuz you can slaughter anything with no problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

square should stick to what they do best not try so hard to take other mmo's players cuz there not. they sure aint gaining new ones, but they can keep the loyals.
even when ffxi had problems i could play for hours, ffxiv after you do the leves theres nothing else, i havent quit or will quit unless they stick to keeping the game mindless and your character is a god cuz you can slaughter anything with no problems.

---

no thanks I don't want a small slowly dying player base. i much rather have a somewhat populated one so i'm not left outa content due to lack of players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiyo

SE, you are losing your main playerbase and main followers(old FFXI players/hardcore players) by trying to make this game more casual and accessible for all players. The new NM's you released in yesterdays patch demonstrate this. 3-5 min repops, not even rare drops? Really? Everyone is going to have this gear in 1 day to a week. Spending 3-6 months to design and release content that'll only last a day to a week is BAD DESIGN. In FFXI all your content lasted YEARS, which was great! It kept people playing and paying for their subs! More $$. What are the players supposed to do after they beat this content in 1-7 days that took 3-6 months to release? Nothing, they'll cancel their subs and quit, or become very bored and eventually quit. FFXI lasted 8 years because it's niche in the MMO market was hardcore/hard, pretty much no other MMO in the market at the time fit in that niche, allowing the game to grow and stay alive for years. To this day, the same can be said, except FFXI no longer fills that niche, no game does. FFXIV should follow and become the hardcore/hard game that FFXI once was.

Why you ask? The reason is simple, casual gamers may make up the majority, but they won't stick around forever, they'll get bored after a few months, and move onto better casual games such as Rift or WOW. These games are much better for casual gamers, and more people play them allowing them to play with irl friends/family/etc more easily. Hardcore players on the other hand, they'll stick around forever. Most of the hardcore players(pretty much all) stayed around in FFXI for YEARS, 5-8 years, an insane amount of time, because the game was perfect for them, and they still had things they wanted, things they needed to get done, level, drops, etc. The game took time and dedication, so even the most hardcore had to play it for 5+ years to get everything they wanted.



Please, I beg of you, do not turn this game into a casual western-MMO like every other MMO on the market, we have far too many of them already, why not try to fit the niche of hardcore/hard and take those players, instead of trying to steal players from other games(and fail doing so)? There is currently ZERO mmos that are hardcore/hard on the market ATM, this would be a very wise decision, and if you read the forums you'll see many FFXI veterans complaining about the direction this game is going.

---

I actually think Hardcore player ( Delicated Player) is the key to the game. Also I think FFXIV will become a somewhat copy of FFXI sooner or later. IF FFXIV need to succeed when they start to charge monthly fee. We need delicate player.

A good LS contain LS leaders ( 1-3 delicate player) and LS delicate members ( 10-20 delicate player) need to exist all the time.These 25 memebers are the most important player base SE need to satisfy for a long run.
They can make the LS most active, attractive for new player, help on all kind of event for casual player.
Imagine 25 delicate + 50 causal player (75) a good LS. Multiply by 20-50 LS? That will be a great population for the server.

On the other hand, if you consider yourself as causul player, try to remember when you log-on, who is the first member/friendlist you wanna see talking or partying or you're asking some help/information ? And who is there for you to response, to ask, to chat with? Delicate players.

I was once a 'Delicate player', I like to join all kind of event to have fun with other causal player, in another word, help them as well. I think i've turn into a 'causul player' at the moment, but everytime i logon, i'm happy to see some other 'delicate player' is still here to party with. I give them my most sincere thanks for being there.

Hey , Shiyo, Don't worry. I think SE know about this , just give them sometime to work on their prioirty.

Their priority is the casual player, make no mistake about that :)

Casuals = Shitload of money
Hardcore = Way less shitload of money & Bitching about every single little change

Hmmm, I thought the lack of things to do and the state of the game at release was the thing that was causing players to leave this game. Little did I know it was because SE is catering to casuals. If only I knew this before. My eyes have been opened to the error of my ways.

I would put my self in the crowd that was really hoping to see more of a Final Fantasy XI evolved, in Final Fantasy XIV. Just because a game follows the same principles as a predecessor does not mean it has to be the same game. All Final Fantasy games up until Final Fantasy X-2 (which was god awful) for the most part followed the same basic principles, and IMO that is what made a Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy.

In Final Fantasy XIII Square Enix again tried to change the Final Fantasy formula and what did they get a massively hated game in Japan with a few Fan purchases in NA. I remember when i saw a posting on a forum for FFXIII where a guy posted a picture of a group of people in japan throwing their games into a fire pit (there are a bunch of FFXIII hate pictures lol).

P.S. i am still enjoying this game, just not as much as i did FFXI, and the challenge it offered me.