Japanese to English translation - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Hi Reinheart, I will ask my mother to watch the video section regarding warriors and see what she says. Since she is native, I will be able to get you a better description and verification.

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Foxclon (JP community rep) already confirmed but if you want to double/triple check :D

Here's the conversation made on Twitter - https://twitter.com/reinheart/status/382540634503925762

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Foxclon (JP community rep) already confirmed but if you want to double/triple check :D

Here's the conversation made on Twitter - https://twitter.com/reinheart/status/382540634503925762

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Not even required now. Thanks Reinheart!

PS looked you up on twitter and immediately found you thanks to the subligar pic. lol

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201309/26040726.html

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Originally Posted by prymortal

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201309/26040726.html

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Just says XIV and XIII Lightning Returns collaboration where you can get weapons and gears from participating in the event battle, and it starting on 11/14 :)

FYI: Yoshi-P's info & cautions post about world transfers has been posted and stickied on the JP forums. (No actual date given, apparently.)

My random opinion on the subject of warriors as a borderline okay (but not remotely great) WHM who isn't end game. :)

Good warriors are the best tanks to work with. They spike damage yes, but that isn't a problem I don't think. They are very consistent about when it happens, and you know it is going to happen and can often your cures timed to hit at the same time.

The other day in Qarn (first successful run in DF) me and 2 Monks waited 20+ minutes for a War to join party in progress. We just ran straight through that dungeon they were on fire. The two (three?) times we wiped it was completely my fault. Same thing happened with Cutter's cry. Same dynamic. They carried me. When we wiped it was all on me. It had nothing to do with the Warrior. I was more or less along for the ride. :o

Seriously I think people need to sit back and watch the aggro and damage management with warrior without thinking about paladin or the normal group dynamic you have with a paladin. Maybe experiment more with a group that doesn't mind wiping a lot to figure out what works best.

How you heal a warrior is very different than how you heal a paladin, and personally I prefer it thus far. Timing matters a tad more than with paladin, but once you get it down it is amazingly smooth, and it opens up some very interesting group dynamics for different bosses.

That said, MRD especially early on, give a bad impression. They are mushy without any of the mitigating factors for the most part, and part of that I think is everybody is still trying to figure the role out. Once they hit warrior though, by and large, they are really fun to be in a party with.

Anyway! Just my opinion. I am however inexperienced with MMOs (this is my first) and thus am looking at this with entirely fresh eyes, and maybe I don't know what I am talking about, or maybe other people are just biased from bad experiences and expectations in the past. :)

Marauder's can't hold hate worth beans either. :(

Thank you for the recent post on the vote kick Rein! I'm curious how this will work and what they plan to do about preventing abuse of it, like they said. Seems like it would be difficult to counter that.

And also re pic u posted: congrats on Lv 50 gatherer Fisher! Now only if they gave exp for gathering fishing subligars!

I am so happy they are considering a vote kick. But yea it could be abused if you somehow get paired with a horrible guild who will kick those not in the guild out right before the person can get a treasure. Hopefully it won't ever come to this.

Perhaps they could do some kind of a timer that if you've killed x amount of monsters in the dungeon or you've passed a certain room, vote kicking is not allowed etc.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

I am so happy they are considering a vote kick. But yea it could be abused if you somehow get paired with a horrible guild who will kick those not in the guild out right before the person can get a treasure. Hopefully it won't ever come to this.

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Maybe if:

1. Boss chests open automatically when the boss is defeated (because when would anyone NOT open a boss chest?)
2. People unable to start a vote kick while treasure is in the pool
3. A vote in progress is cancelled when something pops in the loot pool.

Yeah, that means the real d-bags could still kick someone when a boss is at 1%, but they won't always be successful.

What this game needs is more GMs and active GMs.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Maybe if:

1. Boss chests open automatically when the boss is defeated (because when would anyone NOT open a boss chest?)
2. People unable to start a vote kick while treasure is in the pool
3. A vote in progress is cancelled when something pops in the loot pool.

Yeah, that means the real d-bags could still kick someone when a boss is at 1%, but they won't always be successful.

What this game needs is more GMs and active GMs.

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I agree @Eekiki on more GMS and
@Nukocafe I wonder bout how the devs will prevent the vote kick being abused by people who are presently grieving people that don't speedrun fast enough, are on their first run or want to watch cutscenes their first run. Perhaps the implementation of the fix for trash mobs and MVP vote system will coincide to make votekick better.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Yeah, that means the real d-bags could still kick someone when a boss is at 1%, but they won't always be successful.

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Just don't allow any votekicking while a combat is in progress would fix that.

Sure, you then would have douchebags going afk during a boss battle, and to get rid of them you'd have to wipe, but its better than being able to kick someone when the boss is about to die.

Would be hard but
1) Vote kick is placed on character
2) ACTIVE GM comes and checks log quickly to investigate matter, if the GM agrees with the vote kick request the player is then kicked out of the instance.

But that isn't realistic with the amount of players that is/will be playing this game.

- If you simply add # of mob kills then that player will just kill that amount of mobs and go AFK, so it will need some kind of progress check, but that also isn't easy thing to do so I highly doubt this method.

-If you make it where you can't kick when the chest is opened, people will just kick before it's opened. Same goes for boss fights.

Vote kick is much needed feature imo but it's really hard to control how to make it not abused. I wonder what their plan is.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Sure, you then would have douchebags going afk during a boss battle, and to get rid of them you'd have to wipe, but its better than being able to kick someone when the boss is about to die.

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Seems like no matter what they do, there will always be a way someone could abuse it. XD

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

I agree @Eekiki on more GMS and
@Nukocafe I wonder bout how the devs will prevent the vote kick being abused by people who are presently grieving people that don't speedrun fast enough, are on their first run or want to watch cutscenes their first run. Perhaps the implementation of the fix for trash mobs and MVP vote system will coincide to make votekick better.

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Hm...maybe say you can't /votekick someone who is in "Viewing Cutscene" mode?

'course, then you'd have people AFK in any non-automatic cutscenes. This will be a tricky puzzle for the devs.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

- If you simply add # of mob kills then that player will just kill that amount of mobs and go AFK, so it will need some kind of progress check, but that also isn't easy thing to do so I highly doubt this method.

-If you make it where you can't kick when the chest is opened, people will just kick before it's opened. Same goes for boss fights.

Vote kick is much needed feature imo but it's really hard to control how to make it not abused. I wonder what their plan is.

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I posted this on another topic but to the same extent not amount of mobs killed but a dmg treshold, where you have to deal at least this much input in a fight but it caps based on the part you are at.

So before the first boss you could only gain 25%, midway 66% and then 90% before the boss with the last 10% gained from the final fight. If you do not reach 100% you only obtain 50% of the reward but if you gain 100% then you get all of the reward so this would stop people from leeching to an extent because if they don't give at least 50% input they get nothing, if they don't don't give 100% they only get 50% and it would be setup in a way where if a person does play throughout the whole dungeon there will be no issues with them not obtaining 100% of the reward.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I posted this on another topic but to the same extent not amount of mobs killed but a dmg treshold, where you have to deal at least this much input in a fight but it caps based on the part you are at.

So before the first boss you could only gain 25%, midway 66% and then 90% before the boss with the last 10% gained from the final fight. If you do not reach 100% you only obtain 50% of the reward but if you gain 100% then you get all of the reward so this would stop people from leeching to an extent because if they don't give at least 50% input they get nothing, if they don't don't give 100% they only get 50% and it would be setup in a way where if a person does play throughout the whole dungeon there will be no issues with them not obtaining 100% of the reward.

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That could work, but what if you party up with ilvl70-90 guys vs ilvl50-55 group? I'm guessing ilvl70-90 guys will output more damage and leaving less for lesser ilvl people allowing them to kick new players no matter how hard they tried. I dunno... just throwing out ways to abuse it still lol.

EDIT: Meh now that I think of it, with gear check in place in 2.1 your method could probably work. Was thinking what if that high ilvl player joins lower level dungeon but in that case the gear stats will be lowered to match that lower tier dungeon so should work. We'll see how SE puts this one in.

My biggest concern for vote kick is cutscene watchers and premade cores. Say 7 of your FC members and then 1 DF person- then the 7 members vote kick the 8th and just run along sharing all earnings between themselves. Then of course most people want to speed run certain dungeons and so someone wanting to watch the cutscenes might get booted (I don't wait for cutscene watchers because.. honestly you dont need everyone for CM- can 4 man CM lol but yeah if someone wants to watch the cutscenes then they should watch em XD). I'd hate to see a cutscene watcher get punished for doing what SE intended.

Some have suggested story mode vs speed run mode, that would cure those kind of kicks. I'm not quite satisfied with that though, as I don't see story mode being a sustainable option- at some point not enough people in the ratio of classes required will sign up and someone will sit in queue for hours. Personally and preferably I think they should maintain a condensed and concise DF options as possible. My suggestion may perhaps be forced cutscenes when new people are there, but with extra reward, after that (no new people) cutscenes can be vote skipped at the beginning of the dungeon and while it wont be considered afking to watch them it also wont be a punishment to leave those people behind.


A little bit out there and I think it would be more of a science experiment but I think you could try a tribune for an MMO. Perhaps done before, just havent heard about it. Give a GM or few head leader position and then set up a section where players can review cases and logs to decide verdicts. Reward to the players could be capped per week and in many forms say max of 100-200 philo stones a week, 100 myth, 200 MVP, resting points, ect ect- each "well decided" case rewards you with one of these (I listed out many but I didnt mean all at once, the point would be that it could be worth doing a lot but also you are not going to get way too much of one particular thing since it would cap out or cycle through). Besides social disputes you could also set up special accounts the tribune could "see through" like the live vanadiel cam, and perhaps send basic chat requests (within reason) to test for bots (catch teleporting bots, spam bots, or respond to player reports of gather/crafting bots by sending a "are you there?").

Players with poor judgement (deemed by the overseer GM and the system through comparing GM approved cases and player decisions) would be prevented from further tribune cases, also players who are related to the case couldn't partake in their own or relating cases.

Now obviously the tribune probably wouldn't keep up in realtime but the idea would be that you could then set particular reasons for vote kicking someone. So if players use "AFK" for the reason why they kicked John, even though he was just watching the cutscene at acceptable rate- then he could dispute it and whatever punishment SE decides of voting abuse would be applied. For each report there can be particular checks too like if you report someone for AFKing - it would do basic checks "did this person stand still for a long time, were they a part of combat and how well?" if it came back as no they didn't hold still and they were active in combat perhaps the report would get priority for being an abusive kicking situation, maybe the kick would be even prevented and a GM called -if- available. Of course the players may just change the reason for kicking, in this case the tribune could see the system and players logs and make an educated decision.


Anyway, its not quite real time nor as perfect as GM on the spot reviewing each case but that is impractical and probably impossible unfortunately.. lol (to have that many GMs) - I think a tribune overseen by a select number of GMs would be more practical.

System should probably be accessible through the web but "i m o" there could be a sort of immersive and interesting experience of having an actual and truly working court facility in game.

Looks like the gathering bots are using more "sophisticated" bots now to disguise themselves.

Instead of always teleporting between gathering points, they now once in a while run between them. Or at least two of the bots I came across today were doing that.

Has there been an official translation of the Server Transfer post by Yoshi yet? Haven't seen it and haven't seen any unofficial translation either. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Has there been an official translation of the Server Transfer post by Yoshi yet? Haven't seen it and haven't seen any unofficial translation either. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

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Yes, it was posted in an existing thread by Camate (link), rather than being its own sticky like in other languages' forums.

It's just preliminary info and a few cautions. The actual instructions, rules and date announcement will come later.

So:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1376748

More they respond the more it seems like it's the player's fault in the long run for a lot of changes we have complaints about lol. (Graphics complaints, animation lock, waist gear looks x etc etc), so in other words, those that were pushing for a change for this (like with every other push) SE's answer is pretty much: Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1376748

More they respond the more it seems like it's the player's fault in the long run for a lot of changes we have complaints about lol. (Graphics complaints, animation lock, waist gear looks x etc etc), so in other words, those that were pushing for a change for this (like with every other push) SE's answer is pretty much: Deal with it.

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It's technical limitations as expected coughPS3Memorycough and it's sounding like they had to make some decisions on development resource allocation as well. The ARR models are less detailed compared to 1.0 which is likely due to PS3 memory limitations. Now they could have likely created a set of higher detailed models for the PC version but now we are talking about having to build and maintain two sets of models and then create double the amount of models again as they add new gear. Sounds like they just decided to stick with the least common denominator and normalize all versions which will also allow them to add more content faster. If we're lucky this might be an area we see an improvement in with the DX11 upgrade we'll eventually see and they might have the time and resources to build out a new set of models for the PC and PS4 versions.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

If we're lucky this might be an area we see an improvement in with the DX11 upgrade we'll eventually see and they might have the time and resources to build out a new set of models for the PC and PS4 versions.

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At the very least, some hobbyist will eventually make proper models once SE releases that dev kit they claim to be working on (which will be after the DX11 and PS4 clients).

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Originally Posted by Ladon

It's technical limitations as expected coughPS3Memorycough and it's sounding like they had to make some decisions on development resource allocation as well.

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Actually, 1.0 was also developed with PS3 in mind (for example the "seamless zones" that mostly repeated in sections was done to compensate for the PS3's low memory.) So it's not completely a limitation much like you said they simply went with a universal approach to get content out faster.

Wiith XI on the PS2 they pulled off some stuff that they seemingly can't do with ARR that was developed on the PC first (For example every race and gender had their own set of animations even if they use the same base ones.) There's no doubt we'll see fan models like we did with FFXI after awhile, but 1.0 (and ARR by extension) uses a weird format, so DX11 won't really change anything in that regard. :\ People can do it now, the issue is unpacking and repacking.

That thread complaining about incorrect information being posted and later corrected was ridiculous.

I mean, maybe if the error was about something important, I could understand the complaint, but the error was about what is restricting the number of buff icons that appear on the party list. That's completely irrelevant to the player.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Miqote's Buttocks was sacrificed in order to deliver everyone better looking gear designs in the future.

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What bothers me about this is even though our thread was going for weeks and weeks, the devs didn't bother to respond to it until one of us posted about it in the JP forums. Once the JPs got in on the conversation, the devs finally issued a statement.

I'm starting to think we need a "Reverse Reinheart" who will translate the more active feedback posts from the NA forums for the JP folks. Since Japanese culture is all about being super polite and saying "it can't be helped", I think what happened here was since EmiliM reposted the main butt thread in the JP forum, they felt more comfortable giving feedback on it.

The translation reinhart skipped because it would cause an uproar, can you guys at least point to which post is that. I will use google translator and keep it to myself. But the curiosity is killing me

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

The translation reinhart skipped because it would cause an uproar, can you guys at least point to which post is that. I will use google translator and keep it to myself. But the curiosity is killing me

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He did translate it, he just didn't point it out. "Mid-October"... It has shifted again. Looks like the JP comments to the thread immediately picked up on that and were very much "first it was mid September, then it was early October, now it is mid-October.. "

Ah. People get so worked up about it. :D

Me I just re-roll a new character on a new server. The limit is 40 right? So why not actually roll each one on a different world! Haha. All your friend bases covered. And absolutely zero time left for anything else. ;)

ah, I thought it was going to be something more controversial. I don't care about server transfers so I guess I just skimmed that part. Thx for the heads up though

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

The translation reinhart skipped because it would cause an uproar, can you guys at least point to which post is that. I will use google translator and keep it to myself. But the curiosity is killing me

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Reinheart has translations and translations in progress on his Google Drive.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I'm starting to think we need a "Reverse Reinheart" who will translate the more active feedback posts from the NA forums for the JP folks.

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Isn't that what the reps are doing though? It does take a while for them to process the mass of QQ posts and gather those questions who are worth asking. Then there is translating, going through official channels and all...

Sure, someone could just post the same thing on the JP side and hope it reaches the devs faster that way...

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Isn't that what the reps are doing though? It does take a while for them to process the mass of QQ posts and gather those questions who are worth asking. Then there is translating, going through official channels and all...

Sure, someone could just post the same thing on the JP side and hope it reaches the devs faster that way...

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Yeah (supposedly). But what the reps aren't doing is making our feedback known to the JP community and bringing them in on our conversations. I think that would go a long way in helping the devs get a better understanding on the issues at hand.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I'm starting to think we need a "Reverse Reinheart" who will translate the more active feedback posts from the NA forums for the JP folks. Since Japanese culture is all about being super polite and saying "it can't be helped", I think what happened here was since EmiliM reposted the main butt thread in the JP forum, they felt more comfortable giving feedback on it.

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Well, this sort of happened today on the forums. There were accounts that were suspended for a week, then declared innocent, yet had fully 99% of their gil confiscated by SE. They have been wanting explanations (and rightly so, imho). Reportedly even the suspend/reinstate emails have had blank as reasons.

Although my Japanese is only as good as Google Translate, there doesn't seem to be discussion on that side about it. So someone did actually post in what he called "semi-broken Japanese" to make a request for clarification. (FYI: English post about JP post here.)

Anyway, back to the topic, I would hope that any person who does post EN issues would understand fully well the Japanese culture so that questions can be asked without rudeness or causing offense.

One thread that worked well with that one was 1-50 in one zone thread I translated in 1.0 for that threads OP. Sadly I don't think that guy plays the game no more, unless he started a new character.

But yeah I did couple reverse translations in the past, it does get JP communities attention but at same time I don't know if I should even be doing it, I don't want to cause any trouble. The current translation stuff might be causing enough problems ><

@Arkham Yep been watching those threads, wanted to say something but been keeping quiet on that one. Personally if they are really legit players, I feel it's not right on what happened, like I understand why it needed to be done, but at least there should be some type of official explanation to those players. Just being quiet about it and making them wait seems to be wrong, also depending on how you respond to that thread it could cause people to get angry so I understand how they need to be careful about it. Also it's a bit weird how they punished them but did it wrong, took money away from their characters, yet left the money on retainers. So what if the retainers had 90% of it... w (I'm just assuming here from what I read.)

I don't think the Japanese community minds the crossover discussions. I mean, for the most part, the Japanese player base is almost exactly like the one here, you have your angry trolls and white knights there just as we do here, they just bicker in a different, somewhat more polite language. :/ And chances are that whatever the English players are having issues with, the JP players are as well and have probably already made a thread about it (the butt thread being a rare exception :p). I think it does help that there are probably more devs actively checking the JP threads though.

Not really sure what people were expecting SE to do concerning the massive amounts of gil that were added to the economy by the gilsellers.

SE could either let them keep their gil and then add bigger gil sinks to the game which would pretty much screw the majority of the playerbase, or do nothing and have the economy get screwed up.

No good and clean easy way out of this so they opted for the solution that affected the least amount of players.

Our "reverse Reinheart" experiment seems to have failed. The topic respectfully brought before the JP audience and devs by ogopogo has resulted in the 60-page topic on the EN side being deleted by mods.

Thread: Suspended and returned to a near empty wallet

The JP thread is still active, with the only response being from a few customers comparing it to counterfeit money, but being consoling and saying they have no answer why SE took all their gil not just the counterfeit amount.

I don't think the topic was deleted in response to it being posted on the JP side. Usually topics only get deleted if they get out of hand. Excessive flaming etc.

On the "no plans to implement buying part of a stack", I can only agree with the replies that followed on the JP side, that's it's simply impractical. Both for the seller and the buyer. As seller, you have to spend a lot of time splitting the stack up if you only want to sell, say, 2 at a time. As buyer, you are more or less forced to buy the stack, use the amount you needed and throw the stack back into the market.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I don't think the topic was deleted in response to it being posted on the JP side. Usually topics only get deleted if they get out of hand. Excessive flaming etc.

On the "no plans to implement buying part of a stack", I can only agree with the replies that followed on the JP side, that's it's simply impractical. Both for the seller and the buyer. As seller, you have to spend a lot of time splitting the stack up if you only want to sell, say, 2 at a time. As buyer, you are more or less forced to buy the stack, use the amount you needed and throw the stack back into the market.

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I see why they have the system the way it is, but also know there are lots of sellers out there that don't want to go through the hassle of splitting and doing all that so what they should of done is add a check box which allows the seller to choose if they will allow the buyer to buy singles or any amount from the stack they are selling up on market. Then have a mark/icon on the market board for the buyers to see and know that for this item line they can specify the quantity for purchase.

That would of solved this one, but I guess that's hard to implement.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I see why they have the system the way it is, but also know there are lots of sellers out there that don't want to go through the hassle of splitting and doing all that so what they should of done is add a check box which allows the seller to choose if they will allow the buyer to buy singles or any amount from the stack they are selling up on market. Then have a mark/icon on the market board for the buyers to see and know that for this item line they can specify the quantity for purchase.

That would of solved this one, but I guess that's hard to implement.

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That's the system they had in 1.xx, though not many used the bulk sale option. I'd LOVE to see it make a return to being just an option, rather than compulsory.