Well there is a difference between FFXIV 1.0 and WoW/Rift/Aion - but I have problems seeing the difference between WoW and Aion And Rift and possibly ARRQuote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
Lost faith in Yoshi-P?
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12-09-2012, 06:33 AMGentaro
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12-09-2012, 07:39 AMZakarnRosewoodYup, I guess you can't if all you focus on is the smaller picture. I can see the bigger picture including the housing system, golden saucer, crystal tower, bahamuts labyrinth, all new world to explore, archanist, 300+ quests (doubt every last one will be a gopher quest and I dont understand the crying about that), three separate overarching stories, Raids, story missions, PVP, FATEs, Hamlet Defense, and much more that I may have forgotten or has yet to be revealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentaro
http://i48.tinypic.com/3128snq.jpg
This amazing pic says it all. -
12-09-2012, 07:50 AMDarshu
You're wrong, Zakarn. There are different styles of FPS games out there, but right now it just so feels as if every one of them are the same, they play exactly the same, and that's shit. It's same reason that caused every MMO to feel the same today. CoD happened, and WoW happened. People complain about both and how influenced every other game has been ever since, and how much we don't want new games to be just the same. But FPS is not CoD, nor is MMORPG WoW. It's the other way around, and there's a myriad of ways of doing it. Naming content doesn't make the game different.
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12-09-2012, 11:00 AMLevianI'll agree my opinion is not fully informed, in spite of having played through most of what's available in Alpha. No one's opinion will be fully informed until ARR is released. That's the point I was getting at.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
The way I see it though, the feta cheese comparison doesn't quite apply. You see feta cheese is a completely unknown quantity to me. It could be good, could be atrocious to my palate, but I won't know until I get hold of it and give it a shot.
It would be more accurate to compare it with a known qantity of distaste, let's use liver. I know the flavor, and know full well I despise it. However, there are forms of it that I've not tried. Liver patee could be ok, but since I already know I don't like liver I'm like to avoid it. Now should circumstances require me to get through a tidbit of liver to get to a piece of London broil come hell or high water I'll get through the liver cause I likes me some London broil. But if I have to slog through 2 pieces of liver to get to a small cut of London broil, you can keep the damned London broil AND the liver, and I'll go to Wendy's and grab a burger.
This is more applicable, because I have tried a great many of the features they've added in other games, even before Alpha, and already know to some degree what I will like and what I will probably not like. Instances are fun to me, you'll rarely see me object to them. Questing solo is horrendously boring and atrocious, and I can't think of much that would change my stance. If I have to run go-fers to get to some level between 10 and 20 so I can instance grind and never so much as sniff another go-fer quest again that might be ok. If it doesn't work out that way then I'll be that much more likely to hang up MMOs (much like I've hung up FPS's) and find some other hobby.
At any rate, the whole point I was getting at, is that like many others, I've played many a game. I know what suits my palate and what does not. Therefore, I actually can assess a game before getting hands on time(though it's obviously preferred to get hands on time first) and fairly accurately judge whether or not I'll enjoy the game. Not that I can accurately grade it on a scale of 1-10 without playtime, but I can easily grade it as "has potential" or "probably best left on the shelf."
Right here and now, I would still say FFXIV has potential but there are certainly things about it that make me want to lean the other direction. Things that I knew I wouldn't like when they first announced them, and still don't like after getting hands on time with the game. -
12-09-2012, 11:34 AMSkyeWindbinder
Okay, the truth is this: No matter how many games you may have or may not have played before, and no matter how many features ARR has or lacks for, there are going to be people who don't like the direction the devs have taken with the game, and there are going to be people who do.
I, personally, love the direction the game is currently going in right now. Adding quests to give people missions to do that are more exciting than repeating a few leves over and over, adding chocobo breeding and a housing system, and the new classes/jobs look/sound amazing. To tell you the truth, I really don't give a crap if ARR will have some things about it that other MMOs have in their games. So what? I couldn't care less because there are enough things about this game that differentiate it well from others, things I love about it that make me choose to pay a monthly sub for this game rather than a monthly sub for another. And whatever similarities it may have with other games, if it makes experiencing the story, quests, and features in ARR enjoyable I welcome them with open arms.
To me, comparing ARR to other MMOs that have the same features is a lot like comparing pies. ARR is my pie of choice, cherry! Yummy! :) Yes, it has buttery, flaky brown crust like apple and raspberry, but the fruity filling that defines it is different enough to where I can make a comparision, find some differences, and choose a preference. Some people may not like that the crust covering it is the same as the others. Some people may not like that the size of cherry is the same as the others. Me, I don't care. If it's good, and there are enough differences to make me prefer it to the others, who cares about the few similarities it has to others? It just seems like nit-picking to me, but then again that's just my humble opinion.
The way I see it, the things FF14 has that no other MMO has are awesome. They have me drooling to play the game. As for the things it has that are similar to others, I find those things to be good as well. I love an mmo with a lot of quests in it. I find jumping to be very convenient. And the revamped UI looks spectacular. Granted, I don't know how it will play, as I have yet to really try it (never got my alpha invite, lol). But so far I like what I see. Some people, on the other hand, don't. And if there's not enough differences in this game compared to other games as far as they're concerned, then that's just their opinion. If they find the similarities so strong that they decide not to play it, then that's their choice. Everyone has two eyes, but no one sees the same thing. In my opinion, FFXIV doesn't really need any defending. Because it looks AWESOME, and the way it plays I believe will plead it's own case. Granted, as I said, not everyone will enjoy it. But I believe the majority of people who play it will, and I believe that FFXIV is gonna hit the ground running and doing fine. I may be wrong, But I doubt it. Either way, we'll see. -
12-09-2012, 11:40 AMkazaran
THe man and his team did a great job, with more to come. There are going to be "I love you Yoshi" shouts for awhile.
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12-09-2012, 01:04 PMZakarnRosewoodThey all stemmed from Wolfenstien 3D and Doom way back in the day, just like MMO's (and the pie descrioption below) they all have the same formula, different guns, different maps, different badguys, but the core is the same. shoot the fuck outta everything you see... It would be like me complaining about the next Halo game and wanting them to make it more like Dirge of Cerberus where there is levels, spell shots, weapon upgrades and all that good stuff. As much fun as i think that would be i would expect them to look at that game and how successful it was (not very) and then decide if it would be a smart business move to make. I cant expect them to do that just for me and a fringe group of people who might actually buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darshu
@Levian:
You make some good points, this might not end up being a game suited to your tastes and that's a shame. It is near impossible to make something that appeals to EVERYBODY. With the failure of 1.0 and the goal of an MMO to create an environment that will attract the most players, they need to appeal to a large audience. with the pie analogy, you may prefer mince meat pie but the most common and most popular pie is apple, so when a restaurant wants to get a lot of people to eat their deserts, they are going to have apple pie on the menu. If they can only have one pie on the menu then as much as you might want them to have mince meat pie on the menu you will probably have to go to another restaurant to get what you like. (all this talk about pie is making me hungry...)
Anyway, if there is a point to what i'm trying to say its this. At the end of the day SE and FFXIV is a company and they need to make money to pay their employees and keep a game running, they have already been running at a loss for the past several years and they have devised a plan to recoup their losses and create something they can be proud of. We will have to expect them to play it safe with some of the core components of the game. They are still trying to innovate with their choco breeding and housing, etc. While some people were hoping for them to do more with the game and expectations may have been beyond physical limitations of the technology of today.
I really appreciate all the feedback in this thread, there have been a lot of well thought out ideas and opinions posted and I want to say for the record I do not think any of them are wrong. Thank you for contributing thus-far and please keep the discussions going. -
12-09-2012, 01:18 PMRiv
I dislike that it's becoming a generic wowclone.
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12-09-2012, 01:26 PMstrallaalaa
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12-09-2012, 02:26 PMDarkkenMoneybags
From most of the previous post I have read I see a lot of pros & cons, in which I can agree & disagree on. Yoshi has saved XIV from complete failure & loss of die hard fans of Final Fantasy franchise. He has also in fact worked with other companies such as Blizzard, NCsoft, & a few others. Taking the Director position over a falling popular title was very stressful & hard work because he had to convince CEO Wada that XIV wasn't going to last if changes weren't going to made with the game one being graphics engine was too extreme for commonly used gaming PC's. I support Yoshi & Wada in giving XIV a phoenix down so players can play a game till ARR was ready. Now, for the disagreements & disappointments, from the way I see it some poor considerations have been made by Yoshi & his team. One being from what I see in the latest videos of ARR it does have WoW Elements & mounts should be abolished from jumping. Alpha testing and the selection process, Yoshi has stated numerous times that active current players are important in letters and interviews for feedback in getting these players who left the game to return once beta starts. So it seems as of lately a large selection of players who have active accounts but not active characters/players were chosen for alpha. Where does that put the active current players who are waiting and wanting to test? They stayed strong, continued to play the game & pay in its many changes of Version 1.0, got legacy(hopeful they're true about that) because they believe in Yoshi & his dev. team in delivering a product for them to test & a game for them to be able to play with many new & old players. Another part of the selection process was regional/global invites being JP/NA/EU, JP/EU getting the most invites & NA getting the lesser out of the three & continue to get less invites which is unfair. Yoshi states he would like every active player to test Alpha who has applied. Current players are still waiting they would like to see a couple or few more servers added for testing so they can have their chance in seeing & testing the game before you move to Beta-Alpha. Players haven't lost faith in Yoshi, they just moved him into player view purgatory in hoping he stays true in what he says now since XIV is in transition.
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12-09-2012, 02:39 PMBartlebyThe problem is half of the things you listed are either A) not going to be present at launch or B) they aren't anything unique to FFXIV or both. Plenty of other MMOs have had story quests, PVP, 300+ quests, raids, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
Finally, disregarding someone as simply "mad because they didn't get into Alpha" is pretty petty. The fact that so many people here react to criticism of any kind on ARR as a personal attack really reflects poorly on our community. I think most, if not all of us, here want ARR to succeed, but ignoring people's opinions is part of what got XIV into this mess in the first place. -
12-09-2012, 02:52 PMAzurushousing-in many mmos, hell rift has it tooQuote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
golden saucer (mini games) - other MMOs have that
Crystal Tower - why did you list this separately from a raid? still a raid
bahamuts labyrinth - still a raid....
Arcanist - a debuffer with pets, warlock from WoW says hi
3 seperate stories- hell swtor had 8
dont even know why you listed PVP....
Fates- GW2, Rift and warhammer online would like a word
Hamlet defense - I think you get the point, other games did it..
now my point isnt that I think ARR stinks or w/e your arguing about, I actually really like what I see. But to dismiss others opinions from atop your high horse saying you see some bigger picture that separates this game from others, while listing things that have appeared in numerous other games, is well kind of asinine... I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss peoples opinions
PS: damn Bartleby I wish i had read your post before wasting my time posting lol -
12-09-2012, 04:43 PMZakarnRosewoodTo the above posters, in case you missed it. This is a snippet of a post a made further down the page. perhaps give the rest of it a read before jumping to conclusions. but no, i'm not on any high horse. different eyes and different mindsets see different things. many of these things people are listing as "failures" i see as a good thing. its what makes us unique, right? the world (and forums) would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything. The last four items i added into the list were actually copied and pasted from another persons post. i am fully aware that these things are not unique to FF, Housing was talked about from Lineage, and pvp is almost a standard now a days. i'm not that blind, lol, but thanks for your breakdown.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
PS: the pic was a joke, sorry the nuances were lost in text. -
12-09-2012, 11:49 PMXaimera
One thing that now doesn't make me so excited about launch anymore is the camera speed. I am hoping there is a way to set it to slow and change the camera speed because in some alpha videos the camera speed is way too fast and its making me dizzy its all jerky with the mouse and I'm hoping with the keyboard it isn't that bad but i actually get dizzy playing a game with this sort of camera ><;. I hope they bring back the camera speed option like in 1.0.
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12-10-2012, 03:02 AMPaix
Yoshi and team <3 !!!!!
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12-10-2012, 05:47 AMRaineh
Got alpha invite on first day, played a few days but dislike it.
There are so many spamy mmos out there, and now it seems FFXIV is one of them.
To me the turn by turn based stratagy is a huge part of what is ff(or was...), some what lost in XI but it worked, now its totally gone....
My only hope is the quests and story make it FF for me, because the casual boring spamspamwsx100 is just dull. and if any of the previous titles where like this id not have botherd at all. -
12-10-2012, 07:03 AMXaimeraya i agree that from what ive seen so far its way too spammy >< and flashy too like every 2 seconds flashy ws/abilities go off geez LOL. not just that but the camera with mouse ugh the videos ive seen make me dizzy id like the camera on keyboard to be slower or if not have an option for camera speed like we did in 1.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raineh
seems 2.0 still has a lot of work to go thru before its ready to sell. -
12-10-2012, 07:11 AMIloveYouPumpkinIt's just a different kind of game now. The "standard" as they say. I don't particularly agree with this so called standard but It's what they're going with. I have a good feeling they're basically taking WoW's systems because they see it as the safe thing to do. They want money so I don't blame them, but it's kind of scary because already a bunch of MMO's have tried doing that, and failed. The Final Fantasy name will carry it farther than those games, but we'll have to hope it's good enough to actually be successful and most of all enjoyable to Final Fantasy fans, not just a bunch of WoW players. The thing is, WoW people don't want another WoW. If they want another game they want something different. We'll see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaimera
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12-10-2012, 07:44 AMLevianJust my opinion here, but in my estimation the Final Fantasy name won't carry this game any further than it already has. We all know with each new title a bunch of fans seem to drop off. And 1.0 was probably one of the biggest MMO flops of the past decade. This game has one foot in the grave, and the other not far behind. It's going to take more than a "Final Fantasy" stamp just to drag the game out of it's early grave, much less carry it for another 5-10 years. Again, Yoshida appears to be on a good track, but it's too early to say one way or another if the game will have what it takes to build and maintain steam though.Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveYouPumpkin
As for the poster worried about camera speed, if they were controlling the camera like I do (with the mouse mainly) the camera's speed would be based off mouse's sensitivity and how fast your hand motion is. Some things are still a little jerky/choppy but it's also still Alpha phase. There are a lot of things yet to be added, and I'm sure there will be a lot of refining before the game goes live. I'll remember that concern next time I log in though, I never thought to look. Might be worth putting a note about it on the other forum. -
12-10-2012, 08:10 AMSkyeWindbinder
I, for one, am not the kind of person to give too much thought to the "doom and gloom" theories. Yes, 1.0 was a huge flop (despite it not really being all that bad, imo). But the hype for ARR is high. And from what I've seen and heard, the game is going to be phenomenal. Whether it fails or not will be up to the people who play it, and that judgment is reserved for the future. Yes, many of the game's new features are similar to those seen in other games on the surface. But the core of it is still Final Fantasy through and through. So I don't care about similarities found thrugh nitpicking. And the game is an almost total reboot from the ground up from 1.0, so 1.0's failures don't mean much to me either. All that matters to me is if I'm going to enjoy this game. And from what I've seen, I'll have to say I most definately will.
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12-10-2012, 08:16 AMindira
the secret to happiness is "don't like it don't do it."
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12-10-2012, 08:22 AMLevianSmall correction: It isn't almost a total reboot. It is a total reboot. The game is drastically different from what it was when the servers went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder
Xaimera: Apparently the camera controls have already been talked about, so hopefully those posts get looked at and the issue gets a little dev team attention. -
12-10-2012, 08:28 AMSkyeWindbinderWell, there are some things from 1.0 that will carry on in ARR, so it's not really a 100% total reboot, just mho. But my point is, my judgment of the game is reserved for when I actually play it. Until then, so far I like what I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
As fr camera issues, if there are problems with the camera, it would be wise of the devs to address that immediately. -
12-10-2012, 08:47 AMFiron
so sick of people pretending 1.0 was not spam city with the use of ws.
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12-10-2012, 09:07 AMGramulPeople are doing that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon
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12-10-2012, 09:08 AMstrallaalaa
this was posted by Darshu in a diff thread but it was so good that i'ma keep spamming it in all the threads relevant every few pages into the thread so people get the point that there ideas of a good mmo are actually destroying what a good mmo is. :)
Quote Originally Posted by Darshu View Post
Battle is a main concern in a RPG game. I don't think 1% of you here denies it, or dislikes it even. We play RGPs because we enjoy fighting monsters as something other than real people. Every RPG in the past lvled you through battle, and if you didn't enjoy it, then it's hard to believe you're here playing XIV. Some may like battle more than others, who also enjoy a good story, mini games, humor, cutscenes. But you have to enjoy battle to some degree. You also have to enjoy a challenge. Until now, games were meant to challenge us, some more, some less. But challenge already means getting you our of your comfort zone. Questing like that doesn't. It doesn't require you to play your role well in a battle, and it doesn't require you to interact with other players in a battle (note how I said _require_). Requiring it is important to make something engaging. If battles are important, questing is the main mode of lv progression, and questing isn't engaging, the game is pretty much screwed.
Battles in XI were the best a MMO has ever had. You can all disagree or argue with me, but no other game I know ever challenged you in such a way. You had to know your job to really succeed, you had to know everyone else's jobs, be aware of a lot of stuff. It was tense, engaging and rewarding when done right. It was also time consuming. I've reached high lv characters in most other games I played, and I never knew their role to the extent I knew mine in XI (because I didn't need to). Nor have I ever encountered difficulty when lvling in any of those games to the point I had to stop everything else and really focus. Arguing that XI's battle is not harder than others is silly. I don't think it can be denied.
But what does that difficulty accomplish? It bonds you to the players you're partying with. As someone else has mentioned here, XI parties were incredibly social. The game's social aspect was deep because of it. There was much frustration in the dunes, qufim, citadel. It was also memorable when you succeeded. I'm sure those who've played through that have very vivid, fond memories of great parties, more than they have of any other game. Now, how many memories can you really get out of lvling from 1 to 50 through a questing system such as this? Remember, this is not something you can just ignore, it's the main way of lv progression.
Did you not enjoy fighting in past games? Is fighting not a main aspect of a MMORPG? Then how can you prefer quest grinding, where you put little effort into your job and battles are usually fast and easy, over party based monster grinding, where you will put all of your skills to use, feel useful, have your new equipment put to the test, tighten bonds with party mates? This isn't supposed to be quest grinding over RO style of monster grinding, even though I personally would prefer that even over quest grinding, mainly because it was very challenging if you wanted a good exp rate. I think my main point and concern is quest grinding is rarely ever challenging. And if this is the main way through which we will evolve, then it can't be dismissed with arguments such as "Not every content has to be challenging". SURE! Make sidequests relaxing, interesting, about exploration, with minigames, or easy battles with a nice story (just the way it was in 1.0). Because those we CAN avoid and won't be doing them much if we don't want to. Make levequests easy and fast to get through, just the way it was in 1.0. But not the main tool of lvling up. -
12-10-2012, 09:17 AMLevianSaying things like "Don't like it? Don't do it!" is like saying, "Money won't buy you happiness," or "Alcohol won't solve your problems." Might hold some small measure of truth, but at the end of the day somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes Benz than on a bicycle. Alcohol does not solve any problem, but then neither does milk.Quote:
Originally Posted by indira
Likewise one can't always just not do things. I don't like work, nasty four-letter-word that it is. But I would like being homeless and destitute a lot less. I hated doing dailies in WoW, but I hated not having any gold a lot more. I also hated quest grinding, but putting in twice the effort for half the experience mob grinding wasn't exactly a viable alternative. -
12-10-2012, 09:50 AMBartlebySure, I'd agree that battles are important in most RPGs and play a big role in the game. But What makes you think that soloing mobs is any less engaging or demanding than autoattacking to 100 TP and pressing a WS macro and rinse-repeating for 75 levels?Quote:
Originally Posted by strallaalaa
This is where I really start to disagree. As a five year FFXI player, battles were not that fun, especially when you were leveling up. Most battles consisted of a monotonous killing of the very same mob for 2 to even 4 hours, or even more, before you got a level up. Whether it was grinding crabs, lizards, crawelrs, colibri, or whatever else, combat in XI was about as mindless as it gets and was painfully slow. There was no difficulty to it. You might be able to argue that there was difficulty in ENDGAME fights, but that doesn't really apply to the level grind. Most jobs in XI weren't that hard to figure out, and 90% of the playerbase throughout the game and to this day still don't play their jobs correctly, especially during the level grind. The DD jobs auto attack until they TP and WS, the mages cure/throw on an enfeeble or two when the mob comes in, the tank holds hate, etc.; nothing too complicated.Quote:
Battles in XI were the best a MMO has ever had. You can all disagree or argue with me, but no other game I know ever challenged you in such a way. You had to know your job to really succeed, you had to know everyone else's jobs, be aware of a lot of stuff. It was tense, engaging and rewarding when done right. It was also time consuming. I've reached high lv characters in most other games I played, and I never knew their role to the extent I knew mine in XI (because I didn't need to). Nor have I ever encountered difficulty when lvling in any of those games to the point I had to stop everything else and really focus. Arguing that XI's battle is not harder than others is silly. I don't think it can be denied.
Most of XI's parties were not social at all, I think that's mostly just nostalgia. Yes, there were a few, maybe 10% of the parties, but most of them consisted of the robotic repetition of [pull mob in --> whack to death --> pull mob in --> whack to death] ad infinitum. The extent of talking was usually just a prerecorded "Hello!" on joining and "Congratulations!" when someone leveled. In fact, I'd wager that most of the talking in parties was with your LS rather than your party mates. Now, I'm not saying a social party never came along, but it sure wasn't as often as people like to pretend. For every 1 party you remember as social, there were probably another 9 where hardly anyone said a word to each other. Regardless, I'm quite sure it has already been confirmed that you will not only be able to quest all of your jobs to 50, but that grind parties will still have a leg-up on questing. Not to mention, I doubt every quest from 1-50 will be a "Go solo 3 rabbits" kind of thing, I'm sure some will require a team.Quote:
But what does that difficulty accomplish? It bonds you to the players you're partying with. As someone else has mentioned here, XI parties were incredibly social. The game's social aspect was deep because of it. There was much frustration in the dunes, qufim, citadel. It was also memorable when you succeeded. I'm sure those who've played through that have very vivid, fond memories of great parties, more than they have of any other game. Now, how many memories can you really get out of lvling from 1 to 50 through a questing system such as this? Remember, this is not something you can just ignore, it's the main way of lv progression.
Quest grinding isn't as bad as you make it out to be, and mob grinding isn't as great as you make it out to be either.Quote:
Did you not enjoy fighting in past games? Is fighting not a main aspect of a MMORPG? Then how can you prefer quest grinding, where you put little effort into your job and battles are usually fast and easy, over party based monster grinding, where you will put all of your skills to use, feel useful, have your new equipment put to the test, tighten bonds with party mates? This isn't supposed to be quest grinding over RO style of monster grinding, even though I personally would prefer that even over quest grinding, mainly because it was very challenging if you wanted a good exp rate. I think my main point and concern is quest grinding is rarely ever challenging. And if this is the main way through which we will evolve, then it can't be dismissed with arguments such as "Not every content has to be challenging". SURE! Make sidequests relaxing, interesting, about exploration, with minigames, or easy battles with a nice story (just the way it was in 1.0). Because those we CAN avoid and won't be doing them much if we don't want to. Make levequests easy and fast to get through, just the way it was in 1.0. But not the main tool of lvling up.
So in conclusion, my argument is thus: leveling by grinding mobs was in fact not very challenging at all, and that quest based leveling shouldn't be thrown away just to be replaced by mob grinding. I'm not saying mob grinding doesn't have its place, or its benefits, but its not the golden answer you make it out to be. -
12-10-2012, 10:28 AMindiranot sure how you got all that off my one liner, but i was talking about the game then you come with all that mumbo jumbo. and yeah, if you hate the the game dont play it it is as simple as that, you lived up to this point before ffxiv you can live without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
problem with people today they look tooooooo deep into things. -
12-10-2012, 11:57 AMMaxthunderA broader market thats one sided. Yoshi wouldnt know balance if it hit him smack in the face. You have a few different types of players and to cater to 1 group more than balanceing the game for all types of players is an insult. At what point dose the hand holding stop level 5,10 or never? At what point and how much help dose a person need?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
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12-10-2012, 12:03 PMLevianOn the contrary, I think the problem with people today is that they don't look deep enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by indira
The, "If you hate the game, don't play it," or perhaps more accurately, "suck it up and deal" mentality is what got us 1.0. SE, Yoshida, and the rest of the dev team starting to listen to the complaints of dissatisfied customers is what's getting us ARR. If everyone that disliked the game had just shutup and left, this game would have been buried and forgotten long, long ago.
But rather than start a flame war let's agree to disagree, shall we? -
12-10-2012, 12:21 PMejiboo
you can't deny that the work yoshi and the team have done is impressive but i'm just so baffled at all of the things i continue to see that make me wonder what the fcuk they are thinking... meaning i don't have much faith. i hope i eat my words!
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12-10-2012, 01:01 PMElexiaI especially love the "small niche". What I also love is people who say "trying to reach a broader audience"..Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
Now, let's look at AION, SWTOR, RIFT, GW2 and TERA..what are the states of these games that doing basically what ARR is doing? I lost faith immediately when it seemed that ARR won't offer anything new and while people are excited for it, most of the excitement is the fact it's different from XIV 1.0, nothing more and nothing less. If it was that easy to please people by making your MMO exactly like every other on the market, wouldn't the new MMOs that failed and are failing be better off or doing 100x better than MMOs from 1996-2004?
D3 while not a true MMO also heavily disappointed people and it's by Blizzard as well, so not even Blizzard is safe from the inevitable fate all new online games seem to face. I think what I find funny about the "focus" of players they should be targeting, is people say they shouldn't target or want FFXI players or anyone who enjoys "older MMOs" but ignore that WoW is an MMO from 2004. Hell, when MoP came out you had people crying because they tried something different within their own MMO.
So it's all well and good he wants to target "a broader audience"..even though that audience will leave this game quicker than money in lindsay lohan's bank accounts. The game will be good or bad, people will leave in drones because if Yoshi truly is settling just to make this game fit in, when a game that does something better than most (SWTOR/Tera) doesn't even survive because of the "standard nature"...what hope does ARR have?
It's a Final Fantasy game? Yet people love to denounce FFXI/FFXII/XIII/XIII-2 and people who liked it no problem. ARR will no doubt retain the 10-16k players that were mapped out by the end of XIV's official service by compiling login numbers through meticulous searching..they should only hope they can accomplish what XI did, have a sizable stable playerbase for years to come. Most MMOs don't last months these days, and XIV is an mmo with a well known failed history..so it's unrealistic to expect people to forget that.
He's smart as a developer, but so are the many other developers of MMORPGs that failed. The game being thrown in the market is only half of the battle.
Means nothing. I can see the bigger picture of every other new MMORPG too, they all still failed. Why? The game felt familiar and easier to pick up, but...that's the problem, it's essentially the same game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood
So while you think this is being witty or accurate:
Many more people have seen and played more than enough of the alpha to know that unless SE really steps their game up all of this:Quote:
Is meaningless when people leave your MMORPG within the first few months or get bored of it very quickly. Also:Quote:
I can see the bigger picture including the housing system, golden saucer, crystal tower, bahamuts labyrinth, all new world to explore, archanist, three separate overarching stories, Raids, story missions, PVP, FATEs, Hamlet Defense,
Please tell me you're not expecting these to all be unique and groundbreaking...please tell me you're not.Quote:
300+ quests (doubt every last one will be a gopher quest and I dont understand the crying about that)
The "crying" about it is due to the fact from what people have seen and played and stated, while it makes it feel like a standard MMORPG..it's the exact same thing.Quote:
(doubt every last one will be a gopher quest and I dont understand the crying about that)
The. Exact. Same. Thing.
However, it seems people are willingly going to settle for less just because ARR will be built like a standard MMORPG. This is why FFXI succeeded and even Yoshida admits it, it took from EQ but still went it's own way with designs for systems and ontop of that, designed like a FF game. Even if they take "from WoW in the same idea", it's not likely to succeed now..because every MMO has done that annnnnnnnnnnnnd failed.
Once Beta rolls around which is the state it's most close to the launch state with obvious exceptions, we'll see if ARR will be able to stand the heat or if they'll end up getting crushed by the beast that is the new generation of MMORPG gamers. It's an oversaturated market, just image search any new MMORPG or even download/play any 2-3 MMOs in the same branch ("AAA title" or 2D/Anime style for example) and see if you can honestly say they each are the most unique and ground breaking MMORPG that will keep people glued to their seats.
It's a new world, times have changed but developers are settling for appeasing people who are bored even of their golden child MMORPG. So lost faith? Definitely, but not in Yoshida as a developer, in the direction he seemingly wants this game to take. XIV 1.0 may not have been the hottest chick on the block, but she like her sister FFXI had the personality that made her standout in a crowd that have the personality and longevity of a puddle of piss. -
12-10-2012, 01:30 PMRuisuIf you were a shit player, sure. There was absolutely nothing wrong with 1.0's combat, post 1.20 of course. It was completely fluid and faster than anything I've seen of ARR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon
Also, people still think RIFT is a failure? That's why it's been p2p for longer than most MMOs that have come out since then, right? RIFT is the perfect example at how a game can take ideas from another MMO, and then expand on them. Rather than gimmicky shit like action crosshair combat and voice acting, or better yet, dynamic events. -
12-10-2012, 01:44 PMElexiaYou don't have to move to F2P to be considered failed. Rift actually didn't expand on much when you place it side by side of any other MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruisu
You say it "expanded rather than gimmicky shit"...just look at the name and it's main concept lol. That's "gimmicky shit" that other games even did better. -
12-10-2012, 03:59 PMZakarnRosewoodSounds good, I look forward to all your continued feedback! I sure hope they can make a game you will enjoy. If not i hope you can find something to satiate the beast within.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
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12-10-2012, 06:04 PMRuisuOh look, you have no idea what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
Either post proof that Rift was a complete and utter failure on the scale of TERA or SWTOR, or shut the fuck up. Especially since they were able to release a full on expansion pack this year. Sure is failing, mirite? -
12-10-2012, 09:32 PMFironIf your playing mnk or drg and doing your rotations right you should never be out of tp and never stop WS so what was you saying again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruisu
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12-10-2012, 09:36 PMRuri
I have not lost faith, I am in alpha and love some things while I wish some were changed to how they were near 1.0's end. Hopefully they will be somewhere in the middle and become a good game for release. Only time will tell.
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12-10-2012, 09:47 PMPreypacerWow. You are seriously a fan of cherry-picking and taking things out of context, aren't you? I leave the thread for a little while, come back, and you're still at it - taking people's arguments, spinning them completely out of context, inserting your own "twist" to them, and then arguing against them as though you've made a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
Having quests as a means to level up alone does not make it a WoW clone. You make that sarcastic remark as though it's an ace card earning you some thread-winning point. Only it isn't. It only shows that you continue to be intellectually dishonest by ignoring, twisting or otherwise inventing what other people are saying.
- Having quests as primary means to level up puts it in that category - and this is something Yoshi himself has stated would be the primary means of leveling. You can level by grinding mobs in WoW or its derivatives as well, that doesn't make it somehow "different".
- Having quests that are very much predominantly "kill or collect x of y" type quests puts it in that category.
- The heavy-handed guidance where every single last thing is pointed out to you, to the degree that you don't even have to read the quest dialog at all, much less even know what you're after or why (you'd see all the big golden !'s before you'd see the actual mobs anyway), puts it in that category. They skip through the quest dialog in the official Alpha vid they released, for crying out loud. How much more "official" can you get than that?
That's just talking about the questing.
There's myriad other things Yoshi-P has outlined himself - as in, no one in these forums is "making it up" or "imagining it" - about what direction he's taking ARR. He said himself in several interviews, that WoW is the main basis by which ARR is being developed. He said himself in another interview how he feels XIV should have been SE taking WoW and trying to make it into a FF game. He said himself that that's what he's doing with ARR.
All of this is easily referenced and verified.
The things he's putting into the game are features that were introduced or otherwise "made mainstream" by WoW and/or its derivatives (aka 'clones'), with little if any deviation.
What he isn't taking from WoW and its clones, he's apparently picking up and taking from older FF games. Looking at it from the "big picture" point-of-view, at this point, it looks like what we have is:
WoW/Clone Gameplay + FF Series Fan Service + Things Already Established in 1.0 = ARR.
There's been very little - too little, in fact - revealed about the game that gives any other kind of impression - unless you're trying to fill in the blanks with your own fantasy version of what it's going to be. Again, you can continue to imagine what the game is going to be like at launch. The rest of us will look at what we're clearly being shown and told.
So, while you'll certainly continue to keep posting your drivel, distorting what others say, putting words in their mouth and being all around willfully ignorant, there is far more evidence pointing to what those of us on "this side" of the fence are talking about. I don't have to make things up or hurl around conjecture to make my point. I simply have to point at what we've already been shown and told by SE and Yoshi-P himself.
Many of us have been down this road before. A lot of MMOs have come out over the last 8 years or so that have been designed as WoW clones. They all, despite their individual differences, ultimately end up feeling like you're playing WoW in a different skin - even while their developers insist "oh no no...we're not doing that at all". In that light, itsheer willful ignorance - or just plain delusion - to look at everything shown/told to us about ARR to date - right down to Yoshi-P himself stating that WoW is the basis for ARR's redesign - and say "nope... won't be a WoW clone. Nope".
Many of us MMO gamers have been around this block many times over by now. Too many times to believe that a new MMO clearly built on many of the same features and systems that WoW and its clones have used is somehow going to turn out miraculously different from them.
You can continue beating that drum, telling yourself that, and seeing it as you will through that distorted looking-glass you seem to be using. The rest of us will see things that are right in front of us for what they actually are, no filters required.
The funny part is, I would love nothing more than for your relentless optimism about the game to be 100% right, and for me to be 100% wrong. I would love for this game to stand out and be something that's accessible and fun enough for people to pick up and play as easily as they would WoW or its ilk, while still being its own beast, bringing new concepts to the genre, rather than being another "me-too" game that lifts and copies entire systems from those games wholesale. To date, everything that's been shown or explained has demonstrated ARR to be heading in the latter direction. And frankly, I - and it seems a number of other people - are sick of playing "that game".