Time Mage Awareness

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

Alright, we should step up this Time Mage awareness campaign, I want forum signatures "It's Time for a Time Mage" Lol.

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I would do that, but I advise all of you to be careful. The mods are very sensitive.

Oh we'll be fine, besides it's different people posting, so obviously there is a desire to see Time Mage <,< It's bad enough I actually tweet to Yoshi-P during live letters about time mage lol.

Submit your vote to see Time Mage in ARR!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...E-VS-TIME-MAGE

I would be for a time mage, but I think SE should bring other Job first before a time mage. I would like to see Red Mage and Dark Knight first.

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Originally Posted by Aerenvel

Like i said they can get short charge quick control and speed up the pace of over all combat
fill limit gauge faster etc there is many more ways to do things.
dont limit others to that of your own abilities.
also if you looked at my class branch approach this is another option thm/tmg thm/blm
gld/pld gld/drk mar/bsm mar/war con/sch con/whm arc/rng arc/brd lnc/drg lnc/sam then bring another /thf /nin etc or maybe ronin or w/e base class for sam i dunno but come up with ideas.
not complaints only be positive.

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Originally Posted by Syrokko

You said...

Slow- pretty sure this is gonna be an ARC spell
An Archer spell...?
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you meant Arcanist. Regardless of whether or not this ends up in Arcanist's arsenal, it's still Time Magic.

Immobilize - Same thing as bind
So what if it is the same thing as Bind? The current version of the game has a few spells that are capable of inflicting the effect, but we don't have anything quite so direct and dependent on combo/TP.

Reflect - wont happen in a mmo unless the buff last like 2 secs
Who said a buff can't last two seconds? Completely viable spell.

Disable - players can do that with ws curently (wont know if possible in ARR)
Your argument is that because the effect is interwoven into a Weaponskill currently, a more direct version of the effect should not exist. The lack of logic in your arguments continues to astound me.

Vanish- useless
Because Sneak and Invisible in XI were so gosh-darn useless in XI, right? Who needs mob evasion anyway... /sarcasm.

Gravity- in game alrdy
We have a spell called "Gravity" in our game already...? A spell that attempts to directly inflict the effect of WEIGHT onto the target...? Why was I not informed...

Haste- wont be in game
Please continue with your prophetic tellings of how things will be in the future...
It brings me much amusement.

Stop- too OP
You - too narrow-minded. There is more to a spell than just the damage/status it inflicts on the target. Variables like duration/cooldown/cost/resistance and other constraints such as the spell needing to be combo'd for the effect to proc are all aspects that are taken into consideration when creating game balance.

Bleed-this is in the game as well and CNJ still has the effect from aero in ARR as seen in the Live letter 3
Once again, you're arguing that because the effect is interwoven into existing spells, a spell that inflicts the effect in a more direct manner should not exist...?

Break- would be to too OP or too useless
Such bold statements you make. Have you played any other FF before?
1. Inflicting Break does not count as a KO, and thus, does not reward items/gil/experience.
2. Break is an enfeeble that inflicts "Petrify" for a short period of time, which is essentially Immobilize and Disable, but unlike Stop, you cannot inflict damage on the Petrified target.
It's a spell that inflicts a status with unique properties.

Float- could be useful
Yes... I suppose a spell that completely or even partially nullifies Earth magic "could be useful".
...
If you start thinking any funny stuff (such as the spell being too "OP"), look back to the statements I made in reply to your argument against the Stop spell.

Vanishga- useless
Because inflicting the effect of Invisible on the entire party is useless...
Tell us more, oh wise one.

Warp- another useless spell that would not work on mobs
Who said the spell had to target mobs?

Reflectga- same as reflect
Slowga- same as slow
Graviga- same as Gravity
Narrow-minded to the end...

Hastega- this wont be in game also
There you go again, with your prophetic visions...

Drain- this was a thm spell
And...?

Reverse- not even time magic at all
Um.. What...

Bubble- not even time magic
Because Mana Shield was not a Time Mage thing... Right...?

Syphon- was an thm spell before as well
And...?

Undo- LOL
I suppose the idea of removing the last inflicted enfeeble from a target is laughable to you.

Comet- Yeah right
A spell that inflicts massive non-elemental damage in an AoE and is affiliated with time/space...? What's so "yeah right" about that?

Meteorite - Limit break for blm <.<
In Final Fantasy Tactics, the description for this spell reads "Time magic that warps space-time, causing an enormous meteor to fall on the battlefield."
Just another spell that's way more iconic of Time Mage being placed on a class that's hardly deserving of it.

All you have presented is evidence of your own closed-mindedness and a plethora of flawed logic.
I recommend thinking more carefully before posting in future.

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lmao, you think it would be balanced for a class to have those spells, seriously? Lets give one class the ability to completely stop a monster from attacking across four different spells, all of which would be unable to land on primals or dungeon bosses.

Haste, Slow, Gravity and Comet are the only spells in that list that would be accurate to time mage and be useful and potentially not OP.

Who here wants one of the 5 abilities you get as a job to be one that lasts for 2 seconds that would have to come with a gigantic cooldown in order to be balanced?


Edit: Saying I'm a red mage sheep is hilarious, btw. I don't even like RDM. I don't want to see RDM; but, I'm not going to pretend like its not coming before the other jobs I want to see.

If Time Mage could work in an MMO and not be OP I would be for it and play it.

If they implemented Time Mage anytime soon as a DoT/support class, that role will probably be well filled by Arcanist/Summoner by that point, and also strip some of the role posibilities for Red Mage as I'm sure they're planning on doing at some point. Everyone loves a feathered pimp hat.

Building a Time Mage role that would focus on Support with buffs such as Haste (which I don't think they want to put back into the game, as it's kind of overpowered in concept) although I could see them having an ability that maybe gives the same effect as haste, in a more powerful buff that lasts for a short amount of time (Much like 1.x's 15min abilities) so that it can still be somewhat crazy and useful, but only when you really need it because it can't be kept up permanently. A Haste that can be kept up around the clock on a/all character(s) is incredibly abusive unless you weakened the potency a LOT, to the point where it wouldn't even deserve the name Haste anymore.

Honestly, it would fill such a gap for the lack of healing that was present in 1.x, since Arcanist/Summoner doesn't appear to have very decent healing capabilities from what little we know so far. The best backup healer you had in 1.x was a PLD or a BRD, and the BRD's heals were just a bit laughable (no offense BRDs :< ). Not saying Time Mage should be a full-blown healer that could take over the role of a WHM to the same capacity, but it would't hurt to have a Support class/job that supports by healing -and- buffing. If you make it Buffs and Debuffs, it sounds more like a Red Mage again anyways... and I highly doubt they'd build Time Mage like that over implementing a Red Mage job first that fills a similar role.

EDIT: Before anyone goes saying I'm some sort of RDM fanboy, that's definitely not the case. RDM was one of the most uninteresting jobs for me in XI, and aside from the outfit, isn't very appealing for me. I've been begging SE to add Summoner since Launch, though (feedback forms and the like) ;D Only brought up RDM because I think it's a bit lulzy that the "die-hard Time Mage fans" are trying to support the job being implemented by making it a traditional RDM clone in terms of role.

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Originally Posted by Montijin

lmao, you think it would be balanced for a class to have those spells, seriously? Lets give one class the ability to completely stop a monster from attacking across four different spells, all of which would be unable to land on primals or dungeon bosses.

Haste, Slow, Gravity and Comet are the only spells in that list that would be accurate to time mage and be useful and potentially not OP.

Who here wants one of the 5 abilities you get as a job to be one that lasts for 2 seconds that would have to come with a gigantic cooldown in order to be balanced?


Edit: Saying I'm a red mage sheep is hilarious, btw. I don't even like RDM. I don't want to see RDM; but, I'm not going to pretend like its not coming before the other jobs I want to see.

If Time Mage could work in an MMO and not be OP I would be for it and play it.

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There are mechanics like "Stop" in FFXI. Abyssea NM weaknesses. Red/Blue/Yellow triggers. Even BLU got spells that can inflect terrorize.. The dev team can carefully implement this mechanic for Stop.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

There are mechanics like "Stop" in FFXI. Abyssea NM weaknesses. Red/Blue/Yellow triggers. Even BLU got spells that can inflect terrorize.. The dev team can carefully implement this mechanic for Stop.

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Iirc, effects like Terrorize are just an elongated Stun...

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Originally Posted by Siegtaru

Iirc, effects like Terrorize are just an elongated Stun...

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Stun last one second with a moderate cool down.

Stop can be different like I've suggested.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Stun last one second with a moderate cool down.

Stop can be different like I've suggested.

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You said that you wanted stop to prevent monsters from using certain attacks. So... you want disable but, you want it to be called stop because you want to see time mage and stop doesn't fit in an mmo and you know it? Okay.



I'm not saying its not possible for them to add abilities that completely hinder. I'm saying its not feasible for them to have FOUR abilities that do this while other classes have much less or none at all. You guys keep forgetting that we only have a limited number of abilities compared to most mmos, namely, XI.
In XI you couldn't use abilities like that on big fights; but, it wasn't a big deal because there was so many spells its not like if 4 or 5 were useless all of the sudden you don't have half your spell list.

I'm seriously trying to be convinced here, what do people think that time mage could bring that would be unique and would make sense over other advanced jobs while still being balanced?

What role do you even want to fill as a time mage in XIV?

The answer I keep seeing is enfeebler (slow, stop, float, etc), enhancer (reflect, vanish, undo, etc) dps (comet, meteorite, drain).


Does this look familiar?


Enfeebler (Paralyze,Blind, Dispel), Enhancer (Refresh, Protect, Spikes), DPS (Enspell, Poison, Elemental)

Some of you want Red Mage from FFXI with a different name and slightly different spells.

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Originally Posted by Montijin

lmao, you think it would be balanced for a class to have those spells, seriously? Lets give one class the ability to completely stop a monster from attacking across four different spells, all of which would be unable to land on primals or dungeon bosses.

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Who's (retarded) design choice would that be?

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Originally Posted by Montijin

Some of you want Red Mage from FFXI with a different name and slightly different spells.

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The sheep in you is saying that those spells would be taken away from Red Mage. But if you stopped for a second and thought about it, you'd realize that Red Mage was made up a chunk of spells that belong in the Time/Space Magic category and has no business being so high-priority in a Red Mage's arsenal.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I agree with Altena, the whole problem with that list is all those spells is all ready tuned to another job in the FF world. This job is crappy never understood why people like this class but that's my personal opinion.

Slow- pretty sure this is gonna be an ARC spell

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Pretty sure? or really sure? is this a 50%? 60%? either way it doesn't matter. I agree with what someone else said. it's still time magic.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Immobilize - Same thing as bind

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not really a problem. we can just call it bind. some overlap is acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Reflect - wont happen in a mmo unless the buff last like 2 secs

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the buff could last 5 minutes and affect the next incoming spell and it wouldn't be OP. in PvP mages would learn to let the melee take care of time mage. in PvE most mobs are resistant to the element they cast. so it's not like Ifrit is going to cast Fire III and kill himself from a reflected fire spell.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Disable - players can do that with ws curently (wont know if possible in ARR)

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most mages can't. in PvP this could make a big difference between time mage getting steam-rolled by melee all the time and actually having a fighting chance.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Vanish- useless

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This i'll agree with. it's not needed.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Gravity- in game alrdy

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but not easily accessible. being able to cast it as a reliable debuff is very different than sometimes getting it through Stonera.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Haste- wont be in game

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quote or it didn't happen. haste will have some major issues if it is released. but that's not to say it can't be carefully applied to make it but worthwhile and balanced. maybe haste just increases the potency of buffs. IE: regen/ballad ticks more often. you gain TP faster. etc. doesn't have to be cool down based.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Stop- too OP

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depends on duration. again, easily balanced. this isn't any more OP than a stun. it could function primarily as an interrupt.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Bleed-this is in the game as well and CNJ still has the effect from aero in ARR as seen in the Live letter 3

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doesn't have to be a DoT. it could increase potency of other DoT. decrease resistances, lower TP gain, etc.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Break- would be to too OP or too useless

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Now this spell might actually overlap a bit with existing spells. it's not that it's too OP or too useless, but more why do we need it? stop/sleep could essentially fill the same spot as an interrupt/disable.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Float- could be useful

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I disagree. i'd rather see bar spells re-introduced. traditionally this nullifies earth magic. would make titan primal a bit obsolete. that or he rarely uses any earth spells. which wouldn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Vanishga- useless

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already covered

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Originally Posted by Firon

Warp- another useless spell that would not work on mobs

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a little closed minded. this could be a non-elemental damage spell. one that does consistent damage against all mobs. IE: a moderate amount of true damage that can't crit or be resisted but also doesn't do OMGWTF damage.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Reflectga- same as reflect
Slowga- same as slow
Graviga- same as Gravity
Hastega- same as haste

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Originally Posted by Firon

Drain- this was a thm spell

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keyword: was. it no longer is.

useful survivibility tool. I dont' see many problems with this spell, other than number tweaks to keep it balanced.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Reverse- not even time magic at all

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Make it a self buff with a duration, say 15s and reverse health damage/regen to mana instead. IE: time mage runs low on mana. pop reverse, use drain, gain MP back.

or time mage pulls hate, pop reverse and survive due to mana loss instead of health loss.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Bubble- not even time magic

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i could see someone distorting time/space to get the same affect though. but anyway battle voice fills the same spot. so this isn't needed.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Syphon- was an thm spell before as well

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See Drain/Reverse

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Originally Posted by Firon

Undo- LOL

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Esuna fills this spot already. but another healing class is sorely needed. I wouldn't object to this spell.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Comet- Yeah right
Meteorite - Limit break for blm <.<

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See warp

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We do need more mage classes. with the introduction of Arcanist we'll have 3. and Arcanist's role is unknown. although i suspect it to be a hybrid between support and offense.

All of our melee needs are pretty much taken care of. we have quite a few options for dealing physical damage. Another option would be nice, but it isn't needed as much as another option for healing.

When the game relaunches, the health of it will largely depend on how many people are playing healing classes. assuming parties of 8, you're going to need at least 1/8 of the new population playing whm or parties wont' be able to function well.

the existing population largely already has whm leveled or has no desire to level it.

For solo/small-man groups this may not be a problem. as you can carefully weigh your options for self-sustaining. This is one reason an FFXI like dancer class would be extremely appealling. as it can function as a damage dealer, which more people enjoy playing, but also can provide a lot of sustain for a small group. I'm hoping Arcanist can fill this role to a degree.

when the game relaunches, because it will be more of a standard, i expect to see less full parties running around leveling. espcially for the first half of the game. most of them will be small groups, most likely people who know each other already or pick-up groups. I would expect progression to be similar to: Solo 1-10. duo/small group 10-30. large to full party 30-50.

rdm/time no no no.. not gonna happen to many other jobs gonna come out first then expansion jobs which rdm never been mentioned once, except in the forums of wishful thinking. It kinda sound like people want a job they can beateverythingwithouthelp...

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Originally Posted by Syrokko

Who's (retarded) design choice would that be?

Red Mage was made up a chunk of spells that belong in the Time/Space Magic category and has no business being so high-priority in a Red Mage's arsenal.

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Exactly, and guess what? Those spells were so damn strong that they were nearly mandatory that they were used and given to multiple classes so that red mage wouldn't be even more preferred then it already was. Are we going to give other classes a haste equivalent while were at it to keep things balanced?

Think about it this way; Imagine in FFXI if white mage didn't have haste or slow, bard is non existent or just didn't have their march spell (haste).

RDM has both haste and slow.

No serious group would play without haste in FFXI.

Now imagine you can't sub RDM. No group would be playing without a red mage, it would be torturous compared to having one with you. If a class is almost mandatory to have and their role in a group isn't replaced by another, they are OP.


That is what your asking for in XIV with time mage. The signature spells of time mage are haste/slow/stop and you cannot have one class with haste/slow/stop and all of the other classes without it and maintain balance.

and.. all those abilities you want likely be spread out to different jobs that will come to pass.

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Originally Posted by nokinator

rdm/time no no no.. not gonna happen to many other jobs gonna come out first then expansion jobs which rdm never been mentioned once, except in the forums of wishful thinking. It kinda sound like people want a job they can beateverythingwithouthelp...

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Not true Red Mage was mentioned in the player's poll.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

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Originally Posted by Montijin

You said that you wanted stop to prevent monsters from using certain attacks. So... you want disable but, you want it to be called stop because you want to see time mage and stop doesn't fit in an mmo and you know it? Okay.

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so I've made a mistake and called disabled, stop. thanks for pointed that out for me, it wont happen again.

But, you do know those spell effects do exist in mmo right? okay

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

Not true Red Mage was mentioned in the player's poll.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/46936

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true, and also new jobs like Arithmetician beats it.

http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/to.../cf/4724_0.jpg


In FFT, Arithmetician is unlocked after getting Time Mage. (i think) edit

Only Louisoix is > RDM

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Originally Posted by Andrien

so I've made a mistake and called disabled, stop. thanks for pointed that out for me, it wont happen again.

But, you do know those spell effects do exist in mmo right? okay

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Cool, but that still doesn't explain how the signature spells of time mage are haste/slow/stop and you cannot have one class with haste/slow/stop and all of the other support classes without it and maintain balance.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

true, and also new jobs like Arithmetician beats it.

http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/to.../cf/4724_0.jpg


In FFT, Arithmetician is unlocked after getting Time Mage. (i think) edit

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After getting all black,white, time and mystic to lv 4. Its bassically a merge of all those mages like a Sage. Look it up on ffwiki, i dont know how they would make Arithmetician work actually without giving it a whole new spell/ability list which is probbably why its under original option.

Would totally rather see Arithmetician than Time Mage. Would have the best AF and weapon. No contest.

Some comments.

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Originally Posted by Syrokko

Reflect - wont happen in a mmo unless the buff last like 2 secs
Who said a buff can't last two seconds? Completely viable spell.

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Only viable if it lasts between 10-15 seconds and wears off as soon as it reflects something. Anything longer than that would be OP. Might even tack some magic damage mitigation so that it is also useful for big spells that can't be reflected like astral flows and megaflares.

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Disable - players can do that with ws curently (wont know if possible in ARR)
Your argument is that because the effect is interwoven into a Weaponskill currently, a more direct version of the effect should not exist. The lack of logic in your arguments continues to astound me.

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You're missing the fact that as a standalone spell it would have little value if the effect can alrady be applied by weapon skills. That said, it's an "absolute" in terms of debuffs, and as such would rather not see it here.

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Vanish- useless
Because Sneak and Invisible in XI were so gosh-darn useless in XI, right? Who needs mob evasion anyway... /sarcasm.

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Sorry, but I hated sneak and invis. I hated the fact that exploration was reliant on that over everything else. Not having Vanish/Sneak/Invis and still giving people other means for exploration would be great. Not to mention that true sight/sound mobs are bullshit and were added to counter sneak/invis.

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Haste- wont be in game
Please continue with your prophetic tellings of how things will be in the future...
It brings me much amusement.

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Would it bring you even more amusement to know the devs have already said they're not going to implement Haste? At best, I could see Hasteaga being implemented, but it would definitely have to be a raid cooldown a la Heroism/Bloodlust/Timewarp.

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Stop- too OP
There is more to a spell than just the damage/status it inflicts on the target. Variables like duration/cooldown/cost/resistance and other constraints such as the spell needing to be combo'd for the effect to proc are all aspects that are taken into consideration when creating game balance.

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The ability to completely freeze a mob for the ridiculous amount of time Stop could in the console FFs is OP as all hell in the context of MMORPGs. It might fly as a 8-second crowd control ability in PvP/30 second crowd control in PvE ability, but I fear people would then cry that it doesn't feel FF enough or something.

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Break- would be to too OP or too useless
Such bold statements you make. Have you played any other FF before?

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Break is currently stuck in the threshold between lackluster and useless in FFXI, so he does have a point. If you apply the full petrify, you have an ability that is OP. If you make it short duration (1-3 seconds) it becomes more like an interrupt which would then be moderately useful in PvE and somewhat useful against other casters in PvP.

tl;dr

Slow is fine (sorta) as an enfeebling ability, but don't bring back haste.

Please, for the love of God, do not bring back haste - at least not how it was implemented in FFXI, because anytime an RPG has a "Super Stat" it just destroys all semblance of balance.

I disagree that Haste is a super stat, also I just disagree in general with the entire feeling of using nerf guns and swords and tossing confetti into the air to simulate spells approach a lot of people have in this community, it just feels like a lot of you are out of your comfort area if you're not playing it safe and don't want players to amass great excuse the Final Fantasy expression but "God Slaying" powers. In nearly every Final Fantasy in the past you get to a point where you can do anything, I mean look at the crazy materia combinations you can do in 7 and such <,<;

What in fresh hell is going on here.

Go spend time with your families; It's Thanksgiving. If you're not American, go to work.

Stop having e-fights over which class had a bigger magic wand. Jesus.

People want Time Mages? Cool.

People want Red Mages? Also cool.

Will we get either of them? Nobody knows.

Stop squabbling like schoolchildren in a sandbox. If SE decides to release one, the other, or both, they'll likely reach out to the community on their own time. Making vitriolic posts and warring opinions like this would make anyone want to completely avoid the topic.

TLDR; Stop fighting, you babbys. Have a non-confrontational debate/discussion and SE might just listen, and be impressed by your maturity.

Ha ha ha, wow that was your first forum post <3 <3 <3

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

Ha ha ha, wow that was your first forum post <3 <3 <3

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I couldn't resist signing up just to tell you people that you're all acting like petulant children, it's true.

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Originally Posted by Arkana

What in fresh hell is going on here.

Go spend time with your families; It's Thanksgiving. If you're not American, go to work.

Stop having e-fights over which class had a bigger magic wand. Jesus.

People want Time Mages? Cool.

People want Red Mages? Also cool.

Will we get either of them? Nobody knows.

Stop squabbling like schoolchildren in a sandbox. If SE decides to release one, the other, or both, they'll likely reach out to the community on their own time. Making vitriolic posts and warring opinions like this would make anyone want to completely avoid the topic.

TLDR; Stop fighting, you babbys. Have a non-confrontational debate/discussion and SE might just listen, and be impressed by your maturity.

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For the record, Red Mage does not actually have a wand, so Time Mage wins that contest by default!

But seriously, my sentiments exactly. The devs aren't blind/deaf(unless they've been enfeebled); they're looking into what best suits FFXIV 2.0(and not what won't work in the now dead 1.0), and as such are no doubt considering both jobs. If they do add either one, hopefully they'll add a nice dose of creativity along with them.

Until then, whining, moaning(and as usual on the internet, most of the posts in this thread are bickering instead of actual content), and attacking each other like a bunch of sniveling 15-year-olds brings down the collective intelligence of the entire community. I've done it myself on occasion in frustration, but if we like to say that the FFXI/FFXIV communities are of a higher caliber than other online games, then we have to be better than that.

Well it started out good natured enough until the dream killing police started raiding it with their sour attitudes(Admittedly on purpose to troll).

All it was supposed to do was say "Hi, I've always had my heart set on Time Mage and I have hope it'll be in FFXIV eventually." to which people started claiming through the power of prophecy it'll never be around and knowledge of 2.0 gameplay mechanics, then Red Mage enthusiasts started claiming they had special god given priority and exclusive use of roles/spells.

This reminds me of why I don't participate in the Final Fantasy community, any statement or opinion you say, someone will try to pick a fight with you always. Or try and correct you / claim intellectual superiority.

It's generally FFXI related shortsightedness getting in the way i think, you can see it in just about everything. The way forum posters reply to things(like how people assumed vanish would be the same as XI Invisible), the way they go about designing jobs that were in XI or use spells/abilities that were in XI. I would suggest making a fresh new thread called something like "Make a Time Mage" hope people post their ideas for spells/abilities/roles etc and just let this thread die.

Nah, I won't start that thread either because honestly it's painful to read. (I should have thought of that before I made the Time Mage Awareness thread, it was my first post on these forums...)


Although if I had to pick a way for vanish to work (Sometimes it was like a group invisible) I would like it to be castable on party members, and it would blink them out of existence for a couple of seconds and take a large portion of hate off of them.