Realm Reborn = downgrade?

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Originally Posted by Shura

Your right the gamescon 2012 footage is indeed Pre-Alpha, the footage in the video below is also Pre-Alpha but its from Gamescon 2009 and one of the first ffxiv gameplay footage released; differences is, animation is included in the original version of Pre-Aplha footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu3wr...feature=relmfu

The fact of the matter, in the ARR footage the animation is excluded and no one but SE knows why, assuming it will be added in later is a mistake. You don't know if it will or if it was cut out completely, as others have stated already, putting it off is a bad idea, we can only make assumptions based on the information we have now. Less then 2 months away before 1.0 servers go down and we still hardly have any information.

What makes u think they are not taking feedback already? if i remember right, Dev posts usually end with them asking us to continuing discussing issues and features we would like to see. Doubt their referring to the current version of the game which has no more big patches left.

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did you just think what i was thinking XD we both posted the same video at the same time /fun

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Originally Posted by Shura

Your right the gamescon 2012 footage is indeed Pre-Alpha, the footage in the video below is also Pre-Alpha but its from Gamescon 2009 and one of the first ffxiv gameplay footage released; differences is, animation is included in the original version of Pre-Aplha footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu3wr...feature=relmfu

The fact of the matter, in the ARR footage the animation is excluded and no one but SE knows why, assuming it will be added in later is a mistake. You don't know if it will or if it was cut out completely, as others have stated already, putting it off is a bad idea, we can only make assumptions based on the information we have now. Less then 2 months away before 1.0 servers go down and we still hardly have any information.

What makes u think they are not taking feedback already? if i remember right, Dev posts usually end with them asking us to continuing discussing issues and features we would like to see. Doubt their referring to the current version of the game which has no more big patches left.

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I think that at least a response from the devs confirming whether or not it is or isn't excluded (along with reasons why) is all that is warranted. And if enough of the community cares, would it be possible to add it back in during official alpha/beta periods?

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Originally Posted by Raubahn

did you just think what i was thinking XD we both posted the same video at the same time /fun

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It's because logic is finally setting in on this thread.

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Originally Posted by Shura

The fact of the matter, in the ARR footage the animation is excluded and no one but SE knows why, assuming it will be added in later is a mistake. You don't know if it will or if it was cut out completely, as others have stated already, putting it off is a bad idea, we can only make assumptions based on the information we have now. Less then 2 months away before 1.0 servers go down and we still hardly have any information.

What makes u think they are not taking feedback already? if i remember right, Dev posts usually end with them asking us to continuing discussing issues and features we would like to see. Doubt their referring to the current version of the game which has no more big patches left.

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I was referring to Alpha when I said they weren't accepting feedback yet. I don't have enough information to form an opinion yet with movement quality. Unless I have a controller in my hands, I'm just not willing to make any judgements about it.

However, I will judge based on the rampant trolling about graphical quality based on second-hand footage off gamescom that people who are complaining about it are probably just complaining for the heck of it.

Grass post.

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Originally Posted by Raubahn

did you just think what i was thinking XD we both posted the same video at the same time /fun

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^^, the pre-alpha excuse made me think of that video, i remember how amazed i was 3 years ago when i saw the level of quality in the animation even though it was still pre-alpha.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

I think that at least a response from the devs confirming whether or not it is or isn't excluded (along with reasons why) is all that is warranted. And if enough of the community cares, would it be possible to add it back in during official alpha/beta periods?

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Realistically speaking, i think chance of it getting added in beta is low, beta versions are usually near completion and were talking about some of the basic features here, such as animation during moving and stuff. While im not a professional in the field, i would assume its hard to make such changes to a near complete game.

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Originally Posted by Shura

Realistically speaking, i think chance of it getting added in beta is low, beta versions are usually near completion and were talking about some of the basic features here, such as animation during moving and stuff. While im not a professional in the field, i would assume its hard to make such changes to a near complete game.

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Then the window is small if they are going to add it back in at this point. My only hope is that they were so human that they simply forgot to turn on the physics option in settings; or even opted to keep it off for some odd reason. Either way, it will obviously be a great game, but sorely missed in the animation quality department. An explanation from one of the devs would still be welcome as I'm curious as to why it would be subtracted from a game of such high-caliber graphics if it comes to that.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I was referring to Alpha when I said they weren't accepting feedback yet. I don't have enough information to form an opinion yet with movement quality. Unless I have a controller in my hands, I'm just not willing to make any judgements about it.

However, I will judge based on the rampant trolling about graphical quality based on second-hand footage off gamescom that people who are complaining about it are probably just complaining for the heck of it.

Grass post.

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Now that we've become friends, the only complainer here is you. Complaining about the complainers. I have three words for you... ready?

OPEN. YOUR. EYES.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I was referring to Alpha when I said they weren't accepting feedback yet. I don't have enough information to form an opinion yet with movement quality. Unless I have a controller in my hands, I'm just not willing to make any judgements about it.

However, I will judge based on the rampant trolling about graphical quality based on second-hand footage off gamescom that people who are complaining about it are probably just complaining for the heck of it.

Grass post.

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I too was referring to Alpha when i replied, pretty sure they are not referring to the current version of the game when they ask us for opinions and suggestions. There is no final version of 2.0 since its still in Alpha, i dont see an issue with making suggestions based on footage of the Alpha version.

I Agree, there are a lot of troll threads such as the grass issue but i honestly don't consider the OP a troll, i think the question and issue is a reasonable concern. When i first saw the ARR footage, i also noticed the downgrade in animation and its nice to see other people have similar concerns.

Your right there is not enough information but there is some and based on what little information we have, the animation is currently not in ARR Alpha. Whether this is because its Alpha or because it was taken out completely is the question and that's what i think OP wants to know, all it takes is one small Dev reply, the fact we have not heard anything in return has me concerned a bit.

I really hope they add the animations back. More dynamic battle doesn't mean unrealistic movements. Realistic movement should be part of the strategy to consider when you execute your commands. I hope it won't become like every other RPGs, which just blatantly ignore any transitional animations.

It doesn't even have to be the same animations directly lifted from FFXIV 1.xx, but some new subtle transitional animations unique to ARR would be good too. Something with a sense of timing that works well with the new engine.

The internet: Where people complain for no reason and then try and justify it.

small foot movement don't really matter to me, but it does give a bit of a flare when you're playing ffxiv. What really matters and people are overlooking is the amazing job OVERALL that yoshi did. Hell, even 1.0 in it's current state is better than most MMORPGs out there. I'm sure Yoshi-p will have some good shit for us.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Plugging your ears and ignoring everyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't constitute as a "discussion."

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Posting a "OH LOOK it's THIS thread again" pic followed by an amazingly fallacious reply in full caps including the word "WAH" in repetition doesn't constitute as "a counter-argument i need not to ignore in order for this discussion to be constructive"

Here, let me show you what a constructive counter-argument that i can't ignore looks like :

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Originally Posted by Trotsky

Pretty sure it's intentional. Current animations are pleasant to look at, yes, but they don't allow quick maneuvers like strafing, which are necessary for PvP encounters. I assume this is the reason they've decided to make animations more WoW-like.

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FFXIV, as XI, were, and always intended to be PVE games. PVP was just a nice addition. The majority of their target group focuses on PVE, and in my opinion, ruining one of the best aspects of the game just because it's not convenient for PVP is one of the biggest mistakes they're going to make if this is indeed intentional.

I enjoyed Ballista too, but if i wanted to play a PVP game i would certainly not play XI or XIV.

You don't take steps back on fundamental aspects such as animation to allow something that most of your target group originally didn't asked for, and if you do, at least be serious about it and REALLY incorporate PVP into the game, make open world PVP servers available etc..

Thank you for your constructive criticism on my thread.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Posting a "OH LOOK it's THIS thread again" pic followed by an amazingly fallacious reply in full caps including the word "WAH" in repetition doesn't constitute as "a counter-argument i need not to ignore in order for this discussion to be constructive"

Here, let me show you what a constructive counter-argument that i can't ignore looks like :




FFXIV, as XI, were, and always intended to be PVE games. PVP was just a nice addition. The majority of their target group focuses on PVE, and in my opinion, ruining one of the best aspects of the game just because it's not convenient for PVP is one of the biggest mistakes they're going to make if this is indeed intentional.

I enjoyed Ballista too, but if i wanted to play a PVP game i would certainly not play XI or XIV.

You don't take steps back on fundamental aspects such as animation to allow something that most of your target group originally didn't asked for, and if you do, at least be serious about it and REALLY incorporate PVP into the game, make open world PVP servers available etc..

Thank you for your constructive criticism on my thread.

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I highly doubt ppl wont buy a game cause of it not having realistic movements honestly this thread.....

Maybe FFXIV 1.0 was not built for PVP but 2.0 is and you don't need open world to have good PvP.

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Originally Posted by Fensfield

Pre-Alpha or not, it's still a concern. There's zero sense in attacking people for raising this issue. The animation quality and detail is one of my favourite things about v1.x and I will be very, very sad if something happens to it.

If it is just a pre-alpha problem, and therefore a non-issue? Hurrah, I was worried over nothing; no harm done!

If it is an issue, and not just something not implemented yet because of the development stage, and we didn't raise it? Well, then who'll look the fool for giving in to the bullies telling them to shut up and keep their heads down?

Also: Troll != Person That Doesn't Share Your Opinion.

And on the subject of downgrades as a necessity for PVP and the like? Go play Dark Souls and its ilk. High quality animation and realistic movement limitations are anything but an obstacle to a good PVP experience. They just teach you to keep in mind how you move as you ought any other action.

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Well, That was probably the best approach so far.

And... i just wanted to quote and thank you.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I highly doubt ppl wont buy a game cause of it not having realistic movements honestly this thread.....

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Trust me, there are people that value animation, and it really makes a huge difference in how they perceive gameplay.

If what you said was a fact, why do you think game developers even bother with creating high quality animations?

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Trust me, there are people that value animation, and it really makes a huge difference in how they perceive gameplay.

If what you said was a fact, why do you think game developers even bother with creating high quality animations?

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I found it ironic considering the whole last and current generation of gaming pretty much banked purely on graphics alone.

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Originally Posted by neorei

small foot movement don't really matter to me, but it does give a bit of a flare when you're playing ffxiv. What really matters and people are overlooking is the amazing job OVERALL that yoshi did. Hell, even 1.0 in it's current state is better than most MMORPGs out there. I'm sure Yoshi-p will have some good shit for us.

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Nobody in this thread is saying that ARR will suck because of downgraded animations. No matter what happens, I will have a blast in ARR (given it is a fun game). The OP is just stating a concern for the lack of quality compared to current FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Trust me, there are people that value animation, and it really makes a huge difference in how they perceive gameplay.

If what you said was a fact, why do you think game developers even bother with creating high quality animations?

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FFXIV's current animation is one of the few things I want carried over into ARR. And I mean few.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

"Exactly. It's Alpha, and it isn't finished yet. Which is exactly why if there is ever a time to give any suggestions or complaints about the quality of animation we are used to, now would be the time to do it."

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Exactly.

And my thought exactly before even making this thread.

Let them know we notice, and we value animation.

Animation looking like the pre-alpha video = generic korean mmo feel.

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

It doesn't even have to be the same animations directly lifted from FFXIV 1.xx, but some new subtle transitional animations unique to ARR would be good too. Something with a sense of timing that works well with the new engine.

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There could be alot of reasons that only the most basic animations and basic physics were used in the showing, at least from a developers standpoint.

Could be the fact the demo Yoshi played with was merely just that a DEMO that probably was hastily put together by the developers in order to make the deadline for the con, so they left out some of the immersion features.

Or perhaps the demo Yoshi played was made before the reworked physics and animations were fully developed.

Or the demo was buggy too buggy with the detailed animations and physics therefore left them out to avoid community backlash or problems during the presentation. (Which is a smart move IMO if that was the case)

Or the demo was not connected to a test server and was fully installed within the computer presented, therefore leaving out all but the most basic functions and UI features.

Or just bear with me now, the new server structure still requires the physics engine to be reworked, and they may be still in the process of doing so. Which I could see happening, even if they have the math part done doing little things like the grass blowing in the wind, slowing down your pace from a full sprint, or getting knocked off your feet can be taxing on the games resources and still requires it to be fine tuned.

There are a plethora of other reasons they may not have included it, but from a general standpoint it's too early to tell what's really gonna be implemented in the game.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Could be the fact the demo Yoshi played with was merely just that a DEMO that probably was hastily put together...

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We are just a couple of months before alpha testing.. that simply COULDN'T be a hastily put together demo.

But then again, i REALLY hope you're right.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Do you assume this from the video, or did they stated it as a fact of 2.0?

If so, can you link?

Because if that's the case FFXIV will end up feeling like just another generic mmo, and yeah you're right, a discussion about this is really needed.

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Look carefully at the animations in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwenu...&hd=1&t=10m43s

Watch while he's fighting, how he never moves left, right or back, only strafes and backsteps. And watch again while he's running down the path and turning. Only running straight ahead with the camera panning.

As was mentioned before. Gamescom 2009 FFXIV pre-Alpha video footage showed that all animations we see in current FFXIV 1.x were in place from an insanely early point. This was done under the same roof, but under different leadership. I'm hoping that the leadership difference, and not the same development practices, are the reasons behind the missing animations. If not, then what we are seeing is what we will see from now on. Yoshi-P stated many times that the graphics are 80% done. That's pretty close to completion with something as big as basic movement animations still missing. Until there is an explanation, we can only assume they were deliberately left out due to some sort of technical issue with gameplay or latency.

Dev response please!

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Originally Posted by Elexia

What makes this whole thing funny is they already have 1.0 to build off of so it shouldn't even have had the basics changed like that, engine swap or not.

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I know what your getting at and not picking an argument and this statement isn't to accuse you me or anyone (really) of anything... but thats what we thought for XI to XIV. >.< At least I did, I would see new revolutionary ideas in XI and be all it is testing its reception for XIV. Then all we got was levequests and nothing that was perfected in XI >.<. I was so sad, lolol (I don't think Yoshi will do this but we kind of had the same thought on 1.0 release and that slapped us in the face lolol

will you pple even still complain when 2.0 is released look its not out yet and yall allready crying about it

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Originally Posted by dragorian

will you pple even still complain when 2.0 is released look its not out yet and yall allready crying about it

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Yes.
With all my heart.

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Originally Posted by dragorian

will you pple even still complain when 2.0 is released look its not out yet and yall allready crying about it

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also remember, we'll have to deal with a lot more people soon.

why do people always bash unfinshed stuff?

thats like bashing a painting when its still being sketched.

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Originally Posted by dragorian

will you pple even still complain when 2.0 is released look its not out yet and yall allready crying about it

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Don't you think by the time 2.0 releases would be a little too late to "cry about it"?

You have to understand something. Its 2012. We have a way of reaching out and make our concerns and opinions public for everyone including the developers to see. We're not simply "crying about it" , this is not a thread to circlejerk our sadness over our precious animation missing, but a thread to :

1. Make current and future players aware of this situation
2. Let the developers know we are aware of this situation
3. Ask for developers to address the issue before your MMO feels like Aion and its clones.

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Originally Posted by indira

why do people always bash unfinshed stuff?

thats like bashing a painting when its still being sketched.

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Failed analogy is failed, and to answer your question : Because now is the only time where it makes sense to do it. You don't expect a game to re-work its ANIMATION after release do you?

Let me quote someone that said it way better than me :

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Let me bring a little LOGIC into this conversation.

Here's the simpleton idiot argument:

"It's Alpha, so obviously it isn't finished yet"

Here's my logical response to that unfinished thought process:

"Exactly. It's Alpha, and it isn't finished yet. Which is exactly why if there is ever a time to give any suggestions or complaints about the quality of animation we are used to, now would be the time to do it."

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Originally Posted by indira

why do people always bash unfinshed stuff?

thats like bashing a painting when its still being sketched.

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I think we're a little bit beyond the sketch phase. ^^

I really don't see what people are complaining about. The movement is different but that's what we all expected right? Besides saying that it was pre-Alpha like a billion times, Yoshi-P also said that the demo was just like "An ordinary MMO".

Someone thinking about those words would of course be expecting things to get better in the future. Of course, if you want to complain about a demo reel that will never see the light of day again, have fun.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

In the video shown at Gamescom 2012 (that one can easily also find on Youtube), you can clearly see that the animation of the characters is seriously severed.

2 of the main aspects of the running animation are completely gone.

1. The leaning left or right of the characters as they're strafing / changing direction is gone.

2. The animation of the characters as they stop running (that extra step to define the stop) is also completely gone. The characters just stop moving their legs, and that's it.

Please don't tell me that 2 of the most important things that made the animation in FFXIV so good compared to other mmo's are gone for the sake of jumping.

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Errr, the animations can always be added in, but you have to admit, even for an alpha, the new lighting and shading compensates for it, and then some.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

I know what your getting at and not picking an argument and this statement isn't to accuse you me or anyone (really) of anything... but thats what we thought for XI to XIV. >.< At least I did, I would see new revolutionary ideas in XI and be all it is testing its reception for XIV. Then all we got was levequests and nothing that was perfected in XI >.<. I was so sad, lolol (I don't think Yoshi will do this but we kind of had the same thought on 1.0 release and that slapped us in the face lolol

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Trust me I know lol that's why FFXIV 1.0 > 2.0 has zero excuses cuz unlike XI > XIV it's the same game lol.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Errr, the animations can always be added in, but you have to admit, even for an alpha, the new lighting and shading compensates for it, and then some.

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Lightning and shading to compensate for taking away the best moving animation ever to be seen in an MMO, and replacing it with the most generic 10 year old animation you see in every other korean game?

No. You must be joking.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

The movement is different but that's what we all expected right?

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Nope. I never expected to see such a downgrade on such an important aspect of the game.

Welll....

SURPRISE! :D

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Nope. I never expected to see such a downgrade on such an important aspect of the game.

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Exactly. And this should be one of the "final fantasy feels" that Yoshida kept mentioning. I sincerely hope he doesn't just copy straight what WoW had for controls and movements and the "final fantasy feels" he talked about were just graphics.

These transitional animations are of a great deal to me at least. This is how you make a feeling of gravity and inertia and making things in the game alive, instead of just moving some object arbitrarily.

And it's not for any sake of bashing. It's a concern of mine and I hope the director knows it's a big deal.

(In addition, if you watch the gamescom video again, you can see how his "galka" friend turns around with no animation and he just changes the way he faces instantly)

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Originally Posted by AndySolace

To the OP:

Turn physics off and run around in this version.

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I did. The animation is exactly the same.

I think there's small pieces of clothing that don't move, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

I did. The animation is exactly the same.

I think there's small pieces of clothing that don't move, but that's about it.

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Physics only cut off free flowing animations, i.e hair, your weapon at your side, clothing effects etc, not running animations.