Player Drop Off and Accessibility/Diffculty

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Originally Posted by Valence

Arachnophobia is nothing more than just about making people uncomfortable. Noted.

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You're misunderstanding what I am saying, but ok man.
Remember, these are just video games were talking about. They mean literally nothing in the real world and are not a necessity.

imo they just need to give trusts infinite rez or something

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

I can tell who doesn't play healer from the amount of people here throwing their hands up in the air and saying even if you res someone, you wipe.

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It's because most people who play healer do so because they are timid and want to heal to avoid the competitive pressure of DPSing or the social pressure of Tanking, and when things to awry in their department, they crumble psychologically. (Note to any reader: if you feel this doesn't apply to you, I'm not referring to you.)

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

It's because most people who play healer do so because they are timid and want to heal to avoid the competitive pressure of DPSing or the social pressure of Tanking, and when things to awry in their department, they crumble psychologically. (Note to any reader: if you feel this doesn't apply to you, I'm not referring to you.)

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I guess it’s easier to come up with completely unfounded generalisations about an entire role that justifies why its partner role is so horrendously overpowered (which you just so happen to main) than it is to admit that the support roles are totally unbalanced and horrendously designed

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

This statement is, quite literally, 100% objectively false

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Sure, but compare the effort of glam items in the store--or PvP for that matter, compared to how most people want to normally play the game.How many dungeon items aren't even dyeable?

I'd like there to be more difficulty in the MSQ and otherwise, but I also think this game needs better accessibility options.

In particular, I had been playing two other MMO's recently, Mabinogi and Blue Protocol, which have "autopathing" for quests. In a game with FFXIV's story length, I believe it should have autopathing options, additionally Blue Protocol had an auto-battler option... I do not believe XIV should have an auto-battle option, but it should have "easy mode" toggle for story MSQ battles/dungeons and as much other content as possible.

When it comes to trials, and raids and the like, I would like to see more difficulty levels. I don't really like the Quantum difficulty thing, but I do think these should have more difficulties, that being: Easy, Normal, Hard. Easy being under the level of what we get, normal being normal and hard being around ex/savage. I don't think every fight needs an "ultimate" level difficulty. Ultimates being for that are fine I believe, when I talked to some friends who did them, they didn't like the idea of those encounters getting easy modes.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

You're misunderstanding what I am saying, but ok man.
Remember, these are just video games were talking about. They mean literally nothing in the real world and are not a necessity.

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You say games mean ‘literally nothing in the real world,’ but you’re gate keeping games like it’s a holy rite. If games are just entertainment, why treat them like a proving ground? People expressing that the game feels too hard aren’t ruining it they’re sharing their experience. If you care enough to defend difficulty, then games do mean something to you. So maybe stop pretending they don’t when it’s convenient.

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

In particular, I had been playing two other MMO's recently, Mabinogi and Blue Protocol, which have "autopathing" for quests. In a game with FFXIV's story length, I believe it should have autopathing options, additionally Blue Protocol had an auto-battler option... I do not believe XIV should have an auto-battle option, but it should have "easy mode" toggle for story MSQ battles/dungeons and as much other content as possible.

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I'd rather they create some interesting objectives and maybe combine storytelling with actual gameplay (you know, like a videogame), instead of implementing mobile game nonsense like auto pathing as a bandaid to the tedious "go to X and talk to Y"-quests that take up 70% of the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

You're taking it WAY too serious. Lmao.

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I say this as a person with a disability. (Don't tell me what games I should or shouldn't play and I won't tell you where to go.)

Here’s a legit question for people with disabilities (and I’m not trying to sound rude here I’m actually asking). There is an argument that with the type of game 14 is that having most content accessible to people with various disabilities is incongruent with an average “abled” person’s fun. I’m not saying I agree with this take but there is an element that EW was too easy for the “average” player in the name of accessibility

How “accessible” do you make content for people who need such channels at the expense of the “average” player?

(I’d also like to apologise if any of this comment came off as rude, I tried to phrase it as nicely as I could but I’ll edit it if any part of this appears overtly rude)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

How “accessible” do you make content for people who need such channels at the expense of the “average” player?

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1. Allow players to disable flashes and unnecessary special effects (which are not an indirect or direct indicator of an attack). This really painful for people with migraines or epilepsy.

2. Replace AoE bombardment with more interactivity (picking something, pressing something, carrying it somewhere, standing in a certain cover, completing a quest within a fight). Revise damage mechanics from unavoidable or avoidable only by jumping out to avoidable through group actions and using abilities or environmental details, as was the case in ARR.

3. Stop using the "remember the AoE order" approach; instead, consider alternating debuffs and buffs, such as removing debuffs by entering a specific field/location, same for getting buffs.

4. Add more mechanics for interrupting, cleansing, shielding a teammate, and other features that will be more meaningful and no less interesting.

5. Don't simplify classes to the point of being ugly, but give them more scope for working in a party, some unique skills that will affect game mechanics, and not just damage and the ability to survive it.

6. Stop playing for speed and timers, it's better to do a regular DPS check and enrage, and one that depends not on the damage of the players, but on the execution of micro-mechanics.

7. And finally, learn how to at least make trigger warnings, it’s not that difficult, put a caption on the screen.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

1. Allow players to disable flashes and unnecessary special effects (which are not an indirect or direct indicator of an attack). This really painful for people with migraines or epilepsy.

2. Replace AoE bombardment with more interactivity (picking something, pressing something, carrying it somewhere, standing in a certain cover, completing a quest within a fight). Revise damage mechanics from unavoidable or avoidable only by jumping out to avoidable through group actions and using abilities or environmental details, as was the case in ARR.

3. Stop using the "remember the AoE order" approach; instead, consider alternating debuffs and buffs, such as removing debuffs by entering a specific field/location, same for getting buffs.

4. Add more mechanics for interrupting, cleansing, shielding a teammate, and other features that will be more meaningful and no less interesting.

5. Don't simplify classes to the point of being ugly, but give them more scope for working in a party, some unique skills that will affect game mechanics, and not just damage and the ability to survive it.

6. Stop playing for speed and timers, it's better to do a regular DPS check and enrage, and one that depends not on the damage of the players, but on the execution of micro-mechanics.

7. And finally, learn how to at least make trigger warnings, it’s not that difficult, put a caption on the screen.

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I really like most of these.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

1. Allow players to disable flashes and unnecessary special effects (which are not an indirect or direct indicator of an attack). This really painful for people with migraines or epilepsy.

2. Replace AoE bombardment with more interactivity (picking something, pressing something, carrying it somewhere, standing in a certain cover, completing a quest within a fight). Revise damage mechanics from unavoidable or avoidable only by jumping out to avoidable through group actions and using abilities or environmental details, as was the case in ARR.

3. Stop using the "remember the AoE order" approach; instead, consider alternating debuffs and buffs, such as removing debuffs by entering a specific field/location, same for getting buffs.

4. Add more mechanics for interrupting, cleansing, shielding a teammate, and other features that will be more meaningful and no less interesting.

5. Don't simplify classes to the point of being ugly, but give them more scope for working in a party, some unique skills that will affect game mechanics, and not just damage and the ability to survive it.

6. Stop playing for speed and timers, it's better to do a regular DPS check and enrage, and one that depends not on the damage of the players, but on the execution of micro-mechanics.

7. And finally, learn how to at least make trigger warnings, it’s not that difficult, put a caption on the screen.

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I really don’t disagree with any of these but how many of them are accessibility vs just simply “hard encounters easy jobs” mantra doesn’t work properly which is a super common reason given for why the jobs are so easy

Again just trying to understand

I don't see a difference in this example between "Interact with this object in X seconds" versus "Move out of the orange in X seconds" as far as accessibility goes. It's the same finger effort in the same time period. Moving a character via joystick/keyboard carries no extra effort than pressing another ability.

The first option that came to my mind was to add an option to the accessibility section to increase the duration of the orange marker by up to ten seconds. Certainly you can't prevent people abusing that but it would give people with slower reaction times more time to move, there could be an option for extra telegraphs too - Like a rotation marker on San d'Oria third boss. As I said, I know there's no stopping people who don't need those options switching them on but if it helps people who actually need them I don't see the harm.

Recoloring the AoE marker. Why is that not a thing yet?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I really don’t disagree with any of these but how many of them are accessibility vs just simply “hard encounters easy jobs” mantra doesn’t work properly which is a super common reason given for why the jobs are so easy

Again just trying to understand

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I never mentioned simplifying the jobs. I'm talking about a more intelligent combo mechanism (like in PvP, for example) and the addition of some unique skills. And it would be a good idea to remove the positioning for the melee.

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

I don't see a difference in this example between "Interact with this object in X seconds" versus "Move out of the orange in X seconds" as far as accessibility goes.

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I see the difference. I find it much more convenient to kill adds in a specific order, detonate bombs around the boss or collapse pillars on it, or go behind a wall to reflect damage, destroy the "supercomputer" cores and disable the power, or manipulate buffs and debuffs, than to endlessly and almost instantly run out of circles that are also difficult to see. The timer is different, but there's still plenty to do, and inactivity leads to a wipe.

Roughly speaking, some people lack quick motor reactions, but they have tactical thinking. Let's not confuse dumbing down the game with making it accessible.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

The timer is different, but there's still plenty to do, and inactivity leads to a wipe.

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If the timing is the same, the quick motor reactions are the same is my point, I pointed that out specifically.

Your scenario changed the words in my mouth, you weren't refuting what I said, you painted a new scenario to refute.

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Originally Posted by Crafoutis

If the timing is the same, the quick motor reactions are the same is my point.

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Originally Posted by RajNish

The timer is different, but there's still plenty to do

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It seems you've confused yourself and come up with the same timing. I'll leave you to argue with yourself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

One thing I'd like that mobile FFXIV does is have a clear indicator for when an aoe goes off on the aoe markers themselves by having the pulsing effect timed to match it (GW2 also has been doing this afaik)
https://i.imgur.com/HxuOQBx.gif
(from myhappy's videos)

Also maybe because I use a lala I can rarely see the nametag on most bosses because they're placed above their head and most bosses are just enormous, so having cast bars on those haven't really helped much

I would heavily recommend using focus target in that case. I have a focus target HP as well as their cast bars split up and put in designated spots on my screen for this very reason.

Edit: Even the Enmity List can be used (I do this on Eminent Grief's Drain Aether).

ITT: people that still haven't moved the boss cast bar near their hotbars or in any visible location whatsoever, then act like reading castbars is soooo hard

I mean I have all that set up and I'm not exactly struggling with it much personally, mainly pointing out the cast bars on the nametag isn't exactly useful. They often don't show on adds and smaller enemies like the mobs in PT, where I'd actually want it.

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

It sounds like you just want a difficulty that's easy for you in particular? That doesn't make it more accessible to everyone, just to you.

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No, not just for me. This was given as one example, and there could be many different changes, so I can't list them all; you can do so if you'd like. Please don't take my words out of context.

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

The default camera angle for lalas is awful! On PC you can hold Ctrl and use the up and down arrow keys to adjust your camera. Or use the macro "/tiltcamera [number]" (example: "/tiltcamera 85") to do it if you're on console or want to macro it. I have it as part of a macro for settings for doing battle content!

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Yeah I have it set to 40 while the default's like 33 I believe. It's still not quite enough, while 85 just makes my hotbar and job gauges cover my character.

And again, I have the target's cast bar big and in the middle so it doesn't really give me any problems, just that it's not really as useful as a feature as I'd like.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

ITT: people that still haven't moved the boss cast bar near their hotbars or in any visible location whatsoever, then act like reading castbars is soooo hard

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Probably one of the big things that often gets overlooked.
Fix your UI, the default is terrible.
Of course you can't keep track of what the boss is doing when all the important UI elements are on opposite ends of the screen, even worse when someone is busy staring at their hotbars.

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

The default camera angle for lalas is awful! On PC you can hold Ctrl and use the up and down arrow keys to adjust your camera. Or use the macro "/tiltcamera [number]" (example: "/tiltcamera 85") to do it if you're on console or want to macro it. I have it as part of a macro for settings for doing battle content!

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I didn't know you could macro this stuff, that's so cool!

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I mean I have all that set up and I'm not exactly struggling with it much personally, mainly pointing out the cast bars on the nametag isn't exactly useful. They often don't show on adds and smaller enemies like the mobs in PT, where I'd actually want it.

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Yeah I second this, in typical UX fashion, CBU3 when actually bothered to add UI features into their game, will only do the absolute minimum and stop halfway through for literally zero reason.
Add cast bars on everything, and offer options to turn it off for players that don't like it. Also add buff and debuffs below enemy plates in a similar fashion while we're at it, why didn't they take the opportunity to do this either??

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

My problem with savage isn't the "difficulty", it's just a memory game at the end of the day, my issue is that it's just a memory game - there is no skill expression, the mandatory damage is carefully calibrated to not kill you as long as the right buttons are pressed and the fail damage causes a wipe then and there, no room for healers to save the run, no room for tanks to do anything to save the run, no room for good dps players to beat the dps check anyway just "you slipped up, back to the start." From what I'm told Ultimate is the same but longer.

In terms of dungeon and trial content, I feel like partywide damage should be twice as high and thrice as often, that'd give healers an actual purpose to exist, tank busters too should be at least 50% stronger, if not 100%. Mitigate or die, also get healed or die and yeah, if tanks die on account of healers not doing their jobs then I'll be the first to complain with them about those healers not doing their jobs.

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Thank you

This is how I always felt about savage, and why I stopped. You are forced to rely on other 7 people to play a memory game, and there is literally no skill involved but just making sure your brain can memorize patterns on random.

Just takes one person to screw up the raid and restart it, and I got so tired of that and wasting my time.

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Thank you

This is how I always felt about savage, and why I stopped. You are forced to rely on other 7 people to play a memory game, and there is literally no skill involved but just making sure your brain can memorize patterns on random.

Just takes one person to screw up the raid and restart it, and I got so tired of that and wasting my time.

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Clearly there is some sort of skill expression. It's a classic, isn't it? "X thing doesn't take skill. Poo poo on this thing I dislike, no skill, easy and simple."

No, it's not just a dance. Yes, there are skills involved. And neither you or the person you're responding to would know because you both have FAILED to clear ANY savage tier at ANY POINT in your respective accounts history, per your publically accessable profiles.

Respectfully, don't talk about how easy content is when you have never, ever, been able to clear that content. The only consistent factor in your parties is you. Perhaps you should look inward as to why you've failed to clear a tier.

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Originally Posted by IOwn92FCHouses

Clearly there is some sort of skill expression. It's a classic, isn't it? "X thing doesn't take skill. Poo poo on this thing I dislike, no skill, easy and simple."

No, it's not just a dance. Yes, there are skills involved. And neither you or the person you're responding to would know because you both have FAILED to clear ANY savage tier at ANY POINT in your respective accounts history, per your publically accessable profiles.

Respectfully, don't talk about how easy content is when you have never, ever, been able to clear that content. The only consistent factor in your parties is you. Perhaps you should look inward as to why you've failed to clear a tier.

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I wouldn't necessarily say it has a high skill expression when the solutions are almost always the same for any party, but sometimes you flip the coin on which groups the target, or which pattern it picks. But I would say it does have a high effort-ceiling as you'd need to improve at the mechanic to perform it more and more smoothly. You can't just know it.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

I wouldn't necessarily say it has a high skill expression when the solutions are almost always the same for any party, but sometimes you flip the coin on which groups the target, or which pattern it picks. But I would say it does have a high effort-ceiling as you'd need to improve at the mechanic to perform it more and more smoothly. You can't just know it.

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It does have high skill expression. Doing mechanics while also putting out good numbers takes time, effort, and practice. Gaining that consistency while also outputting numbers or heals is complex. Doing that all quickly and in a higher stress environment takes skill. That's just undeniable fact. And, if you're going blind? Compound solving mechanics yourself instead of waiting for Hector to make a video. Anyone, including you, who says there isn't skill expression is simply wrong. There is a continent of difference between someone who struggles to clear on week 30 and someone who clears week 1. It's insane to claim otherwise. I could go into paragraph upon paragraph about the differences.

The audacity people who say "no skill" when they've not even scratched the surface of what that skill is is maddening. It's like a child jumping to reach their home's literal ceiling and claiming they can do it because they can see it. Lying to themselves.

Like, bros. There's an entire different version of FF's combat that's behind a closed door. A door that can be opened with a bit of effort. Some of you wanna say there's nothing behind that door when you've never even opened it.

I sure hope that's enough metaphor and analogy to get across the point.

Edit: person I'm replying to got carried through m4s on week 24 going off of the achievement date. Why did I even seriously respond to this dude.... Jfc

It's true that I didn't finish the tier, having spent weeks getting nowhere with M8S and not having fun, I made the logical and reasonable decision to stop banging my head against that particular wall. As much as you may not like my analysis, based on my experience, doesn't make it invalid. I did see a "different version of FF's combat" and, in my opinion, it was worse than what I'd seen in extreme for all the reasons I gave in my post that got quoted. If you like "the dance" and wiping because one person made one mistake, good for you, I don't. I don't consider it "skill" and I don't consider it good game design. For the record, I quite enjoyed Chaotic - as evidenced by the fact that I have both the mounts and still have a pile of gear boxes from it, chaotic was fun, with the exception of M6S which was great fun savage was not fun.

Those memory games require precise execution and learning, and this takes a skill of its own. Nobody here would be able to pull what first world teams pull in less than a handful of days to clear a whole tier at MIL. Some people need weeks, some need months or more.

It serves nobody belittling it by saying it's "no skill". It's not no skill. It's just excruciatingly boring and/or frustrating, that's the words you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by NovaStella

That's not a personal slight, it's actually a huge problem with accessibility IRL too. The question is always, who is is accessible to? Even people with the same disability can have competing access needs.

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I understand, and thank you for the clarification. Everything I mentioned was just one example. It would be possible to find a balance, at least try, but the main problem is that the developers are taking what they think is the easy way, ignoring this issue and not even trying.

If they had asked people with disabilities, they would have gotten a response, but even when they received reports about accessibility issues, they ignored requests sent directly to their accessibility team (I don't remember the exact name of this department, sorry).

Some might say it's impossible to make the game accessible for everyone, and I agree, but at least they could have tried, asked, and at least improved something.

Take the 2'd new Alliance raid, for example, where the flashes are literally blinding. The moment when the final boss teleports to the corner, you're enveloped in a white, blind spot. This was probably intended to create difficulty and cause some players to miss the corner and fall. When the content's challenge involves blindness and disorientation, which can trigger seizures in certain people, I can't believe the developers have given even the slightest thought to content accessibility.

For now, it's all about "If you can't, don't play." And the main problem is that no one asks us, and apparently no one ever will.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

Add an accessibility mode to the game for casual content. Let disabled or older players get simplified hotbars. Give them more and clearer instructions to solve mechanics. It does not hurt me.

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This exists, it's called duty support. they are also adding the lives system to dungeons so you can get carried by the scions

can also play tank, you're immortal as a tank in dungeons pretty much

I wish they'd make content easier but rotations harder/more complex. Expressions of skill should be in rotational gameplay rather than increasingly elaborate and esoteric song and dance routines they have to come up with.

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Originally Posted by Raim

I wish they'd make content easier but rotations harder/more complex. Expressions of skill should be in rotational gameplay rather than increasingly elaborate and esoteric song and dance routines they have to come up with.

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and unless one's doing blind runs all the time that skill expression drills down to how well they can follow a guide

The more high pace of the combat encounters is about the only thing keeping dawntrail afloat for me atm. There is plenty accessibility via the npc's you can run content with and other normal content other players can easily carry you through. I've no interest in seeing combat slowed down for a few people. There's plenty you can do in this game, the last thing the combat needs is further slowed and dumbed down ty.

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Originally Posted by Raim

I wish they'd make content easier but rotations harder/more complex. Expressions of skill should be in rotational gameplay rather than increasingly elaborate and esoteric song and dance routines they have to come up with.

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You don't do savage. What content do you want made easier? I genuinely want to know what you find hard about the content you do.