So Yoshi-P just confirmed jobs won't get a big rework in 8.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renaclock

Ppl need to stop taking interviews on non-japanese medias at face value.
We don't have Japanese raw script for this interview but every time we have these post in both language theres so many nuance missed in translation.

---

Care to explain to me why they used to give you links to interviews on their lodestone posts in media round ups then? It seems they never cared about any translation issues before to link to these interviews in prior expansions, here is a link if you do not believe me from a Shadowbringers media round up.

Shgadowbringer's Media Round up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I can't disagree more and this may be proof a segment of players on the forums cannot read.

Player choice / talent tree / specialization can potentially be a big change.

---

The main problem is that the main system is already incredibly bad. It's like seeing a crooked house build on a bad foundation and saying that "building on top of it will fix the house" - it doesn't matter if they add talent tree and specializations because it won't change the facts that:
- every single job in their respective category (DPS, tanks, healers) gameplay wise are basically almost a carbon copy of any other job with only a minor difference (the fact that ninja is still one of most unique jobs simply because of the mudras is telling a lot, and they have stopped giving them new ninjutsu since ShB)
- 2 min meta is stale and boring;
- healers are still spending 90% of their time spamming 3 buttons;
- SE still doesn't know how to properly balance ranged jobs (picto being top 1 damage for 2 patches straight while machinist is still at the bottom for several years now, black mage is also somewhere at the top but only because it's Yoshi-P's favourite job).
If they are not going to change anything in the foundation, then the only thing that they will be able to do will be:
1) Another "phantom jobs" type of stuff that, ultimately, adds nothing to the job and only serve as an additional buff/damage button
2) Some skills will be replaced with some other skill that, while technically would do something else, wont actually change anything or have much of impact in the main job gameplay.
There's literally nothing more that they can do.

I give it a very skeptical "we'll see." Given how vague Yoshi-P is in regards to anything job related (and then some), it's impossible to guess what he actually means. It's an approach that inspires a negative amount of confidence, but like I said in the thread about this topic that I started: go ahead, Yoshi-P. Prove me wrong. Show us all up and release the most jaw-dropping job customization system that makes us all get down and beg for forgiveness. I'll be the first to do it to.

Taking healers as an example, they can keep it stupid simple like right now for people who like it the way it is and it'll work in any casual environment anyway... And add the much needed options for people who enjoy a proper gameplay... Casuals don't need to use the full kit, and people who want to play the game can enjoy the full kit...





....Who am I kidding, right ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

Taking healers as an example, they can keep it stupid simple like right now for people who like it the way it is and it'll work in any casual environment anyway... And add the much needed options for people who enjoy a proper gameplay... Casuals don't need to use the full kit, and people who want to play the game can enjoy the full kit...





....Who am I kidding, right ?

---

That would potentially create friction between players, and that's the cardinal sin. Every design decision has to revolve around preventing it from ever happening no matter how impossible it is.

Rofl, they can't even stand their ground against certain part of playerbase who seethes & stomps their feet at where they stand when the fact got out that benchmark SGE was able to gain as miniscule as 80p/minute (it's 40p/minute today :P) that doesn't involves 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 monotony under the "It DiStRaCtS mE fRoM hEaLiNg!!" pretext - it's as if we're already healing more than 30% of time. There's noooo way they'll do anything more lmaoo.

Man, that was a good laugh.

I think YoshiP should release another statement clarifying what he meant in this interview.

If we give him the benefit of the doubt, his statement on the jobs still feeling familiar could mean multiple things such as:

1. The game is not turning into an action game based around timing dodges
2. The roles are being completely reworked (i.e. A single DPS role instead of melee/phys range/caster)
3. Something wacky like changing jobs mid battle

Job design is pretty pressing issue when it comes to many player's satisfaction of the game. I wish Yoshi P and the developers took more care in responding to player feedback and being more precise about their goals with the 8.0 job changes are. I don't think it needs to wait until fanfest, although I am skeptical if they even had any ideas when they first announced their intent. They mentioned the job changes before 7.0 came out, and the job changes in 7.0 directly contradicted what they wanted to do and homogenized the jobs even further. The last thing this game needs is bad press due to poor communication.

Why are you people even debating this?

Even if he said the opposite, that there will be significant change, you will STILL have the same reactions.

The people on copium will STILL think that everything will be magically solved. 2 min meta will be gone. Etc.

The cynical people will STILL think that because they literally think adding a combo action to Chain Stratagem is peak gameplay shift, not much will actually be changed in 8.0.

When did Yoshi P's words ever matter LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkhyna

How about a freaking PTS so we can actually try and give a feedback on said changes ?

The whole thing seems important enough to be tested by us, the players so we can actually feel listened to.

---

This game really does need a PTR
Don't have story content on it, but allow people to test job changes on training dummies and stuff at least.
Then actually respond and take in player feedback. It's how wow is able to have good class design

Naoki Yoshida is the Todd Howard of Square Enix

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miki_L

I think YoshiP should release another statement clarifying what he meant in this interview.

If we give him the benefit of the doubt, his statement on the jobs still feeling familiar could mean multiple things such as:

1. The game is not turning into an action game based around timing dodges
2. The roles are being completely reworked (i.e. A single DPS role instead of melee/phys range/caster)
3. Something wacky like changing jobs mid battle

Job design is pretty pressing issue when it comes to many player's satisfaction of the game. I wish Yoshi P and the developers took more care in responding to player feedback and being more precise about their goals with the 8.0 job changes are. I don't think it needs to wait until fanfest, although I am skeptical if they even had any ideas when they first announced their intent. They mentioned the job changes before 7.0 came out, and the job changes in 7.0 directly contradicted what they wanted to do and homogenized the jobs even further. The last thing this game needs is bad press due to poor communication.

---

yeah, I agree. It's really not possible to tell what he was saying in the interview. It's not clear at all.

Copium the game is dead maitiance mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Oizen

Naoki Yoshida is the Todd Howard of Square Enix

---

Unfortunately he is not, or we could at least have more immersive, rich and alive game.

Oh man, the amount of "Stop complaining! Just wait and see!" is something else. Time really is a flat circle.

How many expansions in a row are people going to be shouted down with "wait and see"? Are we seriously supposed to wait for the job trailer again before making our voices heard? What happens then if the changes are bad, "wait and see" again for 8.1 because it's way too late to make changes between the trailer and the expansion launch? Maybe "wait and see" for some tepid mid-expansion rework (read: lobotomization) of the last few jobs people enjoy? Don't worry, I'm sure 9.0 will have the real job changes. Yoshi-P promised! But you're not allowed to complain until you see that pre-9.0 job trailer, as usual.

I don't think I'm alone in saying this, but SE does not have my trust or good will right now. I'm not willing to wait and see again and let them keep kicking the can down the road. So why be complacent about it and silence people trying to communicate their discontent to the devs on the forums literally designed for people to submit their input and feedback?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silren

Unfortunately he is not, or we could at least have more immersive, rich and alive game.

---

https://i.imgur.com/fyV1zPn.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silren

Unfortunately he is not, or we could at least have more immersive, rich and alive game.

---

You must've missed the existence of Fallout 76 and Starfield.

Since Shadowbringer and the 2 minute meta, SE has been backing the jobs into a corner, and they're running out of room with things they can do with them.

With the 2 minute meta, we have 20 seconds of burst, or around 8 GCDs. Some jobs such as PLD was already at 8 GCDs after their rework, so their DPS kit gain was 1 upgrade and 1 new oGCD. GNB is also at 8 GCDs now, and WAR is at 7. DRK is the only odd one out with 4, but they also got a lot of oGCDs to weave.
And looking at most of the upgrades jobs have gotten in DT, it's mainly upgrades for old abilities, and burst abilities. Almost zero has been done for the 100 seconds of filler, or put another way, you get to play DT for 20 seconds while the remaining 100 seconds hasn't changed since Shadowbringer combat (majority of jobs, a few have gained a bit or been reworked, or it's tied to a mini burst at 60 seconds).

I want them to make the 100 seconds of filler more fun and interesting, not dump everything new into the overstuffed 20 seconds.

This makes it sound like the changes are going to be a total waste of time:
- There will be some job 'configuration' 'options'.
- They will only bother to balance one option per job.
- They only bother to at all balance the instance to one of those options.
Welcome to every job now having a 'limited' version that is useless in all content.

Options are fine PROVIDED they are all available to be switched in all instances.

No people don't want some new kind of job 'configuration' complexity.

What they want is the old XIV style job complexity back. Stop trying to make it so you can put the least effort possible into instance design.

watch the only thing they add is some niche button and then make boss mechanics where u have to use it. jobs will still play 99% the same as they do now.

It makes you wonder what SE is doing all this time—I mean, waiting 2+ years for each expansion with so little content.

What was the hype about the big graphics update, and what was it really? A few gold effects in the world highlighted + character faces disfigured. Now players are hyping themselves up about the job changes, and what will it end up being? 2-3 jobs get something back that were previously removed, each job gets 1-2 new things, and that's the end of the hype. Let's face it. SE is squandering the money this game makes and therefore producing so little content for the game that keeps the whole thing alive.

Yoshi P. may have been the one who revived this game, but now he's also the one driving it into the ground and letting it die. His empty promises are nothing more than a gamble for player numbers so that the real fanboys keep paying and stay involved. What are promises worth if players have to wait years for SE to implement something instead of paying enough people to do the job faster.

No people don't want some new kind of job 'configuration' complexity.

What they want is the old XIV style job complexity back. Stop trying to make it so you can put the least effort possible into instance design.[/QUOTE]

Thumbs up for that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyferU

I specifically said you should take a Break, if you are dooming over something that is happening in over a year from now.
You will never be happy with anything SE does if you go at it with a "This is gonna suck" attitude.

Even this Interview I really liked. I'm really interested in the "People might think of it as an expansion of the system that we have in the game." and what that means for the 8.0 jobs.

---

This kind of illogic twaddle annoys me.

Firstly) just because some people lack the mental facilities to confidently model future behaviour based on past behaviour, it does not mean they should apply that lack of confidence to other people.
Look, if you are unable to offer coherent forecasting, by all means keep your lack of insight to yourself, but do NOT censure those that are able to make up for your lack of capacity! Yes, I'm making that an imperative.

Secondly) Lets assume one does acknowledge even the possibility of impending, yes 'Doom'. Then only an idiot does not appreciate that development cannot 180 turn in the space of a dime. If ever a game demonstrated that it is FFXIV. Therefor if there is a problem then it needs to voiced from the very moment it is foreseen.

As for dismissing concerns as 'doom', well that's turned into the ultimate irony now. As that was the dismal of the past when no such doom was apparent. However, lack of criticism has taken the game very much to a state of impending 'doom'.
Wake up! The game is not going to be ok as it is! Unless it can change course it will not even be able to maintain the current or past standards. IT WILL GO INTO MAINTENANCE MODE.

If these job changes are not WHAT PEOPLE WANT it will be a DISASTER.

Im not always the best myself, but how can some people be so bad at learning from history and past mistakes.

Lastly, if the problem is tone of criticism, well we have proof that an understated tone is ignored, shouted down and as a result ultimately ignored. We now know that what we must do (I say we, 'they' as far I'm concerned) and that is to speak loudly, forcefully, relentlessly.

The game IS broken.
Sitting on ones hands and "taking a break" never 'really' fixed anything except for the weak, and it's not going to fix FFXIV.

If you don't want to be around game criticism you need to go play a game that's doing better, like WoW, or maybe even Destiny 2. (Anyone seen that Tom Christie video? Its amazing! XD https://youtu.be/i746yVpd7VY)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisshu

Since Shadowbringer and the 2 minute meta, SE has been backing the jobs into a corner, and they're running out of room with things they can do with them.

With the 2 minute meta, we have 20 seconds of burst, or around 8 GCDs. Some jobs such as PLD was already at 8 GCDs after their rework, so their DPS kit gain was 1 upgrade and 1 new oGCD. GNB is also at 8 GCDs now, and WAR is at 7. DRK is the only odd one out with 4, but they also got a lot of oGCDs to weave.
And looking at most of the upgrades jobs have gotten in DT, it's mainly upgrades for old abilities, and burst abilities. Almost zero has been done for the 100 seconds of filler, or put another way, you get to play DT for 20 seconds while the remaining 100 seconds hasn't changed since Shadowbringer combat (majority of jobs, a few have gained a bit or been reworked, or it's tied to a mini burst at 60 seconds).

I want them to make the 100 seconds of filler more fun and interesting, not dump everything new into the overstuffed 20 seconds.

---

Actually now that you mention this, I wonder if part of the reason why they extend those raidbuffs up to 20s was partly because they realized they couldn’t fit in each job’s ‘new shiny finishers’ within the old 15s timers so they opt to just extend it & call it a day.

I wonder if we’ll get another 5s extension in 8.0 just so we can have yet 2 another new finishers lmfao.

EDIT: On top of that, debuffs like Addle/Feint/Reprisals getting its 5s extension is probably also a reaction to “Oh no X job burst window is so full now they have to pre-mitigate! Y’know what, let’s just extend these too!”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SyferU

I specifically said you should take a Break, if you are dooming over something that is happening in over a year from now.
You will never be happy with anything SE does if you go at it with a "This is gonna suck" attitude.

Even this Interview I really liked. I'm really interested in the "People might think of it as an expansion of the system that we have in the game." and what that means for the 8.0 jobs.

---

And who are you to tell people to take a break?

FFXIV is down 50% and seemingly going down more, and your only response to peoples criticisms is to unsub. Good one chief. They should put you on the board of directors with that attitude.

On top of that you're being completely disingenuous because I know you know that it isn't just this ONE thing. This is a dot on a graph full of dots that has been slowly spiraling out of control for years, and has been building up community sentiment. If Yoshi P. as THE head of this games development, either says something that people don't like, or says something dumb, people have every right to be concerned. That's why there are whole industries on PR and why it's so important.

Nobody except a small cringe sect of the community wants to see the game fail. It's fragile right now and they need to take all of this more seriously than it feels like they are.

And btw, if you like things the way they are, or you simply just don't care one way or the other, just say that. I have no rebuttal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ephremjlm

And who are you to tell people to take a break?

FFXIV is down 50% and seemingly going down more, and your only response to peoples criticisms is to unsub. Good one chief. They should put you on the board of directors with that attitude.

On top of that you're being completely disingenuous because I know you know that it isn't just this ONE thing. This is a dot on a graph full of dots that has been slowly spiraling out of control for years, and has been building up community sentiment. If Yoshi P. as THE head of this games development, either says something that people don't like, or says something dumb, people have every right to be concerned. That's why there are whole industries on PR and why it's so important.

Nobody except a small cringe sect of the community wants to see the game fail. It's fragile right now and they need to take all of this more seriously than it feels like they are.

And btw, if you like things the way they are, or you simply just don't care one way or the other, just say that. I have no rebuttal.

---

I'm curious regarding where this 50% figure has come from? I'm aware that there has been a drop in player numbers but I haven't seen anything indicating the game has lost literally half of it's playerbase?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

You must've missed the existence of Fallout 76 and Starfield.

---

I played a lot both these games actually, FO76 had a terrible launch but they didn't abandon it and with all those updates today it is a good game, not a masterpiece of course but you can enjoy it with friends and even solo. Starfield is a good game overall, but not so good Bethesda game, it is different from TES and Fallout series and that is its issue, people were expecting something more close to other rpgs made by Beth. They are worse than TES and Fallout games that came before? Sure they are, but they are not bad games at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I'm curious regarding where this 50% figure has come from? I'm aware that there has been a drop in player numbers but I haven't seen anything indicating the game has lost literally half of it's playerbase?

---

Truthfully it's more of a conservative estimate. We know for a fact based on the last report that SE's MMO division was down 45%. The sentiment seems to only be getting worse since then, but that isn't where we pull the estimate from.

The MMO division is currently made up of FFXI, and FFXIV. FFXI as far as we know has been absolutely BOOMING. They literally had to stop people from signing up for certain servers. There are multiple reasons for this including from the boom of the raids and ironically similar to how the wow exodus made FFXIV spike, people leaving FFXIV is making people try FFXI, and not just retail but other servers too. The estimate is around 200K. The point there is that, that should all factor in to the 45% decrease but in the opposite way. That said, that means all the decrease is on FFXIV, and more than 45%. Probably not TOO significant of a difference but 5% seems to be the fair number.

That and you can look at the steam numbers, tbh. Sure, not everyone is on steam, but data analytics says we can extrapolate one to the other as long as the data set is large enough. *shrug* It's kind of bleak atm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ephremjlm

Truthfully it's more of a conservative estimate. We know for a fact based on the last report that SE's MMO division was down 45%. The sentiment seems to only be getting worse since then, but that isn't where we pull the estimate from.

The MMO division is currently made up of FFXI, and FFXIV. FFXI as far as we know has been absolutely BOOMING. They literally had to stop people from signing up for certain servers. There are multiple reasons for this including from the boom of the raids and ironically similar to how the wow exodus made FFXIV spike, people leaving FFXIV is making people try FFXI, and not just retail but other servers too. The estimate is around 200K. The point there is that, that should all factor in to the 45% decrease but in the opposite way. That said, that means all the decrease is on FFXIV, and more than 45%. Probably not TOO significant of a difference but 5% seems to be the fair number.

---

Thanks for explaining :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xurtan

That and you can look at the steam numbers, tbh. Sure, not everyone is on steam, but data analytics says we can extrapolate one to the other as long as the data set is large enough. *shrug* It's kind of bleak atm.

---

If the people playing on Steam act similarly to those on SE client, PS5 or Xbox, then it can show us a trend.
So if the Steam numbers are half now compared to DT launch, then we could estimate that a similar trend might also happen with the SE client users, PS5 and Xbox users.

I dont want see the game die. but if they dont do something about this terrible job design it will. its core aspect of the game. doubling down is like final killshot to this game. it is maintance mode

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisshu

Since Shadowbringer and the 2 minute meta, SE has been backing the jobs into a corner, and they're running out of room with things they can do with them.

With the 2 minute meta, we have 20 seconds of burst, or around 8 GCDs. Some jobs such as PLD was already at 8 GCDs after their rework, so their DPS kit gain was 1 upgrade and 1 new oGCD. GNB is also at 8 GCDs now, and WAR is at 7. DRK is the only odd one out with 4, but they also got a lot of oGCDs to weave.
And looking at most of the upgrades jobs have gotten in DT, it's mainly upgrades for old abilities, and burst abilities. Almost zero has been done for the 100 seconds of filler, or put another way, you get to play DT for 20 seconds while the remaining 100 seconds hasn't changed since Shadowbringer combat (majority of jobs, a few have gained a bit or been reworked, or it's tied to a mini burst at 60 seconds).

I want them to make the 100 seconds of filler more fun and interesting, not dump everything new into the overstuffed 20 seconds.

---

You just articulated one of the biggest problems I have with ffxiv's combat. Even though you have all these buttons for bursts, the vast majority of the combat is just clicking on 2-6 buttons, over and over again, with only a couple periods of weaving maybe every 15 seconds or so to be generous. The combat just gets monotonous and honestly pretty boring outside of the burst windows, and they need to stop placing so much emphasis on bursts and boring downtime moving forward, I think.

The only time I really have fun with the combat is during the burst phases, the rest outside of the burst phases, the downtime, more or less just hurts my fingers with the same slow repetitive movements, over and over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ephremjlm

Truthfully it's more of a conservative estimate. We know for a fact based on the last report that SE's MMO division was down 45%. The sentiment seems to only be getting worse since then, but that isn't where we pull the estimate from.

---

Down 45% compared to when?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exmo

Down 45% compared to when?

---

Probably compared to the previous quarter, that's how these earnings reports for investors usually go.

But we could also take the lucky bancho census, where we went from 1.150.643 active characters in November 2024 down to 878.336 active characters in July 2025.

Granted that's only a 24% drop in active characters, but still not ideal. I'm guessing the 45% is in regards to revenue, since less active players also cuts into their store earnings.

This isn't a surprise for non-fanboy veterans.

Just cancel your sub and play FF11. The only thing 14 beats 11 on is graphics and character creation.

Not only do all jobs play different, each has it's own unique journey. The Path of the Beastmaster is very different from the path of Summoner or Blu Mage and you can take your favorite job into Endgame without a "level limit".

The Open World matters and isn't just for decoration. You have to actually travel to the dungeon through the world and not a single one has been a singular straight line.

The Skillchain combat system has infinitely more depth than our 2 minute burst-then-snooze meta.

HORITZONTAL PROGRESSION. Your relics and gear aren't trash after a few months. After 99 you build your character through merit AND job points increasing various attributes or skills (cooldown reduction, additional effects) - making no two characters exactly the same.

Inb4 "omg but volke wolke ff11 too hard and me want video game not job!!!" Hey buddy, the game is nearly as old as I am. There's been 2 decades of QoL improvements. There are teleports *everywhere* where they didn't used to be and they have a system where new players can easily gear from a single npc (and you can sell that gear for 2mil a week negating early gil issues. Go ahead, run BLM from the start, you can afford all your spells. Hell they're even updating the game today to reduce the inventory expansion quests to just trading a coupon or something.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. I don't even play this game, I'm able to participate due to free-login. Which I didn't even utilize. Logged in, spoke to 1 npc to start a quest, got bored and immediately hopped on FF11 and had a blast for 4 hours.

Edit: Also you should definitely play on Bahamut instead of Asura, way more new players and ff14 "refugees"

And if you want that ballcrushing experience of FFXI as it was initially conceived, private servers exist.

I'm actually waiting on a new PC so I think I will try FFXI soon. It's one of only 4 mainline FF's I've not played, so it's time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMfw...FGzFTQ&index=1 Song for dev team and yoshi p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

Probably compared to the previous quarter, that's how these earnings reports for investors usually go.

But we could also take the lucky bancho census, where we went from 1.150.643 active characters in November 2024 down to 878.336 active characters in July 2025.

Granted that's only a 24% drop in active characters, but still not ideal. I'm guessing the 45% is in regards to revenue, since less active players also cuts into their store earnings.

---

That's what I'm wondering, if it's revenue comparison against same quarter last year when DT released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kisshu

If the people playing on Steam act similarly to those on SE client, PS5 or Xbox, then it can show us a trend.
So if the Steam numbers are half now compared to DT launch, then we could estimate that a similar trend might also happen with the SE client users, PS5 and Xbox users.

---

this is probably untrue simply for the fact that it's highly likely that a large number of PC players use the official launcher and not the one through steam, especially for those using Reshade and the like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedLolly

And if you want that ballcrushing experience of FFXI as it was initially conceived, private servers exist.

I'm actually waiting on a new PC so I think I will try FFXI soon. It's one of only 4 mainline FF's I've not played, so it's time.

---

im honestly tempted to play it myself, especially with rumors circulating that they are considering making a new expansion for the game because it is so popular and its population continues to rise.