Potential Housing Crisis Fix (Includes ability for permanent Housing (Sm, Med, Lrg)

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

we get our instance plot an they can keep the ward system with the removal of the timer because the demand for ward housing would go down an thus more ward houses would be available an open up for those that like it.

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We can have both have a Fully instanced housing plot for individuals i.e. single instanced zone, and we can keep and maintain shared instances i.e Neighborhoods side by side without the two needing to intersect or overstep eachother. and as i mentioned previously if alot of people switch over to a private instanced that will free up lots of neighborhood homes so those who want to live in the neighborhood home can an if the developers see this then they'll realize there's not really a need for the demolitions timers anymore people will cycle in or out of housing themselves.

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my counter argument ^

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

I feel the more it's said, the less people understand what's being said.

If condos are permanent & wards aren't, a lot of people are going to be unhappy and the other way around. If condos are not permanent then again back to square 1 of the problem. So what do we do? Make everything permanent and then have people who cry they can't get something they want? Make everything on timers and get people that cry about losing things? It's impossible and that's the tradeoff SE has to consider.

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Exactly!

In my opinion, I think the best way to go about this is, "top down improvements", so Apts have their standards bumped up without infringing on plots.

Raise the Ceiling, Raise the floor.

Both standards go up, but relatively nothing changes.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Alright , for an example of fairness in this sense. If we're going to have instanced housing in conjunction with ward housing , then instance housing is also going to have to have the 45 day demo timer. For parity.

Unless the ward system is going to be retired. And the demolition timer permanently disabled.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Exactly!

In my opinion, I think the best way to go about this is, "top down improvements", so Apts have their standards bumped up without infringing on plots.

Raise the Ceiling, Raise the floor.

Both standards go up, but relatively nothing changes.

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Why can't we have both? I genuinely don't understand the logic that if ward plots have demolition timers, then instanced condos, which are essentially customizable, resizable apartments, must also have timers. That's not parity, that's artificial constraint. It makes no sense.

Permanent housing should be available to everyone, without expiration. And for those who want the outdoor yard aesthetic and accept the risk of demolition, ward plots can still exist, on top of their condo, not instead of it. This isn't an either/or situation. It's about giving players meaningful choice.

Apartments aren't a valid substitute. They're extremely limited, poorly designed, and immersion-breaking. Condos, as proposed, would offer scalable interiors, neighbor visibility, and city-based immersion, whether in Solution 9 or any major hub. The concept is flexible.

And how is it unfair to ward owners if they can have both a plot and a condo? The only "devaluing" happening is superficial, the prestige of owning a plot. That's not a fairness issue, that's entitlement. Housing should be about access and retention, not status.

Permanent condos don't erase wards. They relieve pressure, prevent loss, and give players a home that doesn't vanish because they took a break.

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

Why can't we have both? I genuinely don't understand the logic that if ward plots have demolition timers, then instanced condos, which are essentially customizable, resizable apartments, must also have timers. That's not parity, that's artificial constraint. It makes no sense.

Permanent housing should be available to everyone, without expiration. And for those who want the outdoor yard aesthetic and accept the risk of demolition, ward plots can still exist, on top of their condo, not instead of it. This isn't an either/or situation. It's about giving players meaningful choice.

Apartments aren't a valid substitute. They're extremely limited, poorly designed, and immersion-breaking. Condos, as proposed, would offer scalable interiors, neighbor visibility, and city-based immersion, whether in Solution 9 or any major hub. The concept is flexible.

And how is it unfair to ward owners if they can have both a plot and a condo? The only "devaluing" happening is superficial, the prestige of owning a plot. That's not a fairness issue, that's entitlement. Housing should be about access and retention, not status.

Permanent condos don't erase wards. They relieve pressure, prevent loss, and give players a home that doesn't vanish because they took a break.

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Fairness isn’t about prestige or protecting only your choice, it’s about giving options while respecting everyone’s investment. Trade-offs are inevitable, no matter what system exists. Just so it's clear again, I have never claimed that we shouldn't have instanced & wards.

Having both ward plots and condos doesn’t magically make everything fair. Wards still have scarcity, demo timers, and prestige. Condos could be permanent, larger, or cheaper or hell, more expensive. That’s the reality of trade-offs.

By the same logic, people who said “If you want a house, just move” were called unfair so why is “if you don’t want demo timers, just take a condo” suddenly fine?

It’s about designing systems so players’ time, effort, and choices are respected, and trade-offs are clear. That’s what keeps getting missed.

I want everyone to have a home (in part so we can shut the hell up already) and two because I think everyone should have a home, but it comes with trade-offs that need to be considered.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

Fairness isn’t about prestige or protecting only your choice, it’s about giving options while respecting everyone’s investment. Trade-offs are inevitable, no matter what system exists. Just so it's clear again, I have never claimed that we shouldn't have instanced & wards.

I want everyone to have a home (in part so we can shut the hell up already) and two because I think everyone should have a home, but it comes with trade-offs that need to be considered.

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so lets talk about these Trade-offs because there are good ones and bad ones the two are not mutually exclusive.

Wards vs Solo Instance/Condo Apartment upgrade.

Good: Everyone gets to own a house regardless of what they want whether it be shared space or not, demand for wards lessens doesn't mean it completely vanishes but just makes it less potent an less obstructive to player's enjoyment, less demand in ward housing means they can either remove the demolition timer or extended it out make it so the timer matches with patch update schedule this way the developers will know for sure who is coming back and who isn't and thus wards can remain cycled in and out this is much better than just keep adding more wards or more servers to play on etc, limits for furnishing placements can then be increased further with less stress on the wards an less constraints on the instanced housing they could make this probably work, Apartments can accommodate more space,

Bad:Bot Farmers and house hoarders will still exist sadly for wards i don't think there is any good way to stop them without adding unnecessary restriction or making the demo timers more severe which people definitely don't want, people won't have community neighborhoods in instanced and people may be locked out from just visiting some people's instances, if house sizes are not upgrade-able within wards this would lead to players feeling left out and unfortunately this would only come about with a full overhaul but it seems despite any proposal ward enthusiasts insist this would ruin their time investment or efforts in constructing an they lengths they went to to obtain a certain plot(and let me paraphrase i'm not saying they shouldn't get upgrades but no matter what solution is offered someone always has grievances so i think the only thing to do is for ward enthusiasts to really sit down and talk about what they really do want out of the system and come to a consensus.) instanced housing would likely be stuck within one biome which may not be favorable to most because housing goers like being able to choose which terrain best suits them or their character, apartments would still be limited functions an limited in amounts of item placements and this is due to limitations of those servers they will crash if too many items load all at once,

as a net positive especially with this development team they give everyone freedom of choice by allowing you to choose which type of housing you favor and allowing you to own all of them at the same time if you choose to do that which means everyone gets what they want or need out of this feature and if everyone has a house we're likely to less complaints not more in the foreseeable future which is a good thing for both the developers and players.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

Fairness isn’t about prestige or protecting only your choice, it’s about giving options while respecting everyone’s investment. Trade-offs are inevitable, no matter what system exists.

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You and I are basically in agreement, my issue is with Solowing's framing. The idea that permanent condos must inherit demolition timers just because ward plots have them is arbitrary. If a condo costs the same, or even more (say, +5m or +10m for a large unit), then permanence becomes a feature you pay for, not a loophole. That's not unfair. That's a choice.

The only people who would be upset by permanent condos are those clinging to the prestige of ward ownership, the ones who bought FCs just to control entire wards, who farm gil endlessly, and who actively block others from having an equal experience. Condos remove that disparity, they level the playing field.

Permanent condos also give legitimate FC a chance to actually own housing, something many are denied because entire wards are locked down by shell FCs controlled by a single player. These players hoard plots, buy up FCs, and monopolize workshops to farm gil, all while preventing real FC communities from accessing housing at all. Condos break that cycle. They offer permanence and functionality to FCs who’ve been boxed out by exploitative ward control, giving them access to workshops, decor, and a stable home without needing to fight over limited plots.

This isn't about taking anything away from ward owners. It's about giving everyone a stable, immersive home, without needing to micromanage subs, demo timers, or exploit chains. If someone wants both a yard and a permanent interior, they can pay for both.

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

You and I are basically in agreement, my issue is with Solowing's framing. The idea that permanent condos must inherit demolition timers just because ward plots have them is arbitrary. If a condo costs the same, or even more (say, +5m or +10m for a large unit), then permanence becomes a feature you pay for, not a loophole. That's not unfair. That's a choice.

The only people who would be upset by permanent condos are those clinging to the prestige of ward ownership, the ones who bought FCs just to control entire wards, who farm gil endlessly, and who actively block others from having an equal experience. Condos remove that disparity, they level the playing field.

Permanent condos also give legitimate FC a chance to actually own housing, something many are denied because entire wards are locked down by shell FCs controlled by a single player. These players hoard plots, buy up FCs, and monopolize workshops to farm gil, all while preventing real FC communities from accessing housing at all. Condos break that cycle. They offer permanence and functionality to FCs who’ve been boxed out by exploitative ward control, giving them access to workshops, decor, and a stable home without needing to fight over limited plots.

This isn't about taking anything away from ward owners. It's about giving everyone a stable, immersive home, without needing to micromanage subs, demo timers, or exploit chains. If someone wants both a yard and a permanent interior, they can pay for both.

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The permanence I have requires me to utilize my plot, which indirectly requires a subscription at some point. How about this, let me pay 5 million Gil to remove the demo timer permanently off my plot, for parity? That's fair. and optional :P

Also if you are micromanaging a 45 day grace period.

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

You and I are basically in agreement, my issue is with Solowing's framing. The idea that permanent condos must inherit demolition timers just because ward plots have them is arbitrary. If a condo costs the same, or even more (say, +5m or +10m for a large unit), then permanence becomes a feature you pay for, not a loophole. That's not unfair. That's a choice.

The only people who would be upset by permanent condos are those clinging to the prestige of ward ownership, the ones who bought FCs just to control entire wards, who farm gil endlessly, and who actively block others from having an equal experience. Condos remove that disparity, they level the playing field.

Permanent condos also give legitimate FC a chance to actually own housing, something many are denied because entire wards are locked down by shell FCs controlled by a single player. These players hoard plots, buy up FCs, and monopolize workshops to farm gil, all while preventing real FC communities from accessing housing at all. Condos break that cycle. They offer permanence and functionality to FCs who’ve been boxed out by exploitative ward control, giving them access to workshops, decor, and a stable home without needing to fight over limited plots.

This isn't about taking anything away from ward owners. It's about giving everyone a stable, immersive home, without needing to micromanage subs, demo timers, or exploit chains. If someone wants both a yard and a permanent interior, they can pay for both.

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We agree that expanding housing access is good. Where I disagree is the claim by people that instanced housing is “fair” while ward housing remains subject to demolition.

That creates two ownership classes with unequal rules. Choice under unequal constraints is still inequality. Saying “you can have both” doesn’t resolve that — it just pressures players who value wards into abandoning them if they want the same security. Again this is disguised as a choice.

Again, I’m not arguing against change. Never have. I’m arguing against pretending there’s a zero-loss solution. Any system SE chooses will disadvantage someone, just like the current one does. And people can't be acting as if the one is unfair while the other isn't. That's hypocritical. "HOUSING IS UNFAIR... oh but not this way, no this way is not unfair" Why? Because it benefits me. In its current state and possibly the future however way SE decided to implement a solution, it will be unfair to a degree and deciding what's acceptable and what isn't is the problem.

The idea of S9 condos is very good, though I don't think it must necessarily be in S9 at all.

It could be at Crystarium or in any housing ward.

Either they spawn a new building or just add the medium and large apartments on the already existing apartment building.

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Originally Posted by s32ialx

give players a home that doesn't vanish because they took a break.

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You have a ward house?

Then it becomes acceptable for it to vanish because you "took a break"

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Am I really gatekeeping you? When I didn't start with anything either? I play the game just as you did and luck into my plots, but I did what I could to increase my own odds.and looked for what players didn't want. I didn't look for a medium or a large, too much competition, I looked for the smalls the players overlooked for the bigger plots.

If apartments are so bad , why do I have five of them?

If they were bad I shouldn't have anything outside of a storage unit right? You are welcomed to come by and take a look yourself.

I really like housing..My interest in the system isn't contingent on the size of the space, but the ability to access a space.

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House hoarders have no say in this conversation, because YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

You have a ward house?

Then it becomes acceptable for it to vanish..

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Like I said,

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

And people can't be acting as if the one is unfair while the other isn't. That's hypocritical. "HOUSING IS UNFAIR... oh, but not this way, no this way is not unfair." Why? Because it benefits me. In its current state and possibly the future however way SE decided to implement a solution, it will be unfair to a degree and deciding what's acceptable and what isn't, is the problem.

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People can have their opinions but they can't claim things that are unfair in one way is totally fair the other way around, and get away with it.

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Originally Posted by Brandr

House hoarders have no say in this conversation, because YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

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How am I apart of the problem where 4 out of 5 of my apts reside within my FC cottage? LOL

Im hoarding Apartments that don't even eat into the apartment housing supply.

At least be accurate with your labeling.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

How am I apart of the problem where 4 out of 5 of my apts reside within my FC cottage? LOL

Im hoarding Apartments that don't even eat into the apartment housing supply.

At least be accurate with your labeling.

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So you have a house, a FC house, an apartment with your main character and 4 alts with apartments in your FC house.

And these 4 alts don't own apartments and houses, besides those in your FC House?

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Originally Posted by Brandr

So you have a house, a FC house, an apartment with your main character and 4 alts with apartments in your FC house.

And these 4 alts don't own apartments and houses, besides those in your FC House?

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You physically cannot own more than one personal house per service account if one of your characters already HAS a home and is on the same world. In order for them to be in the same FC, they need to be in the same world, do they not?

You can own one personal house and one Free Company (FC) house per World per service account.

If that makes you mad take it up with SE. They already made it so "Housing Hoarders" have a harder time. It's just the FC Mafias who run rampant.

To add to that. Once you hit the maximum amount of plots for a service account. The only way to continue fresh housing. Is to demolish the layout and start new.

OR

Purchase another Apartment/FC room and create another room there.

A finished Plot leads back to Apartments anyway, if you still have the itch for housing abut still want to preserve your plot.

Unless you volunteer to be someone tenant and decorate their house for them. But you can be subjected to their differences in taste. If they even allow unfettered access to placement.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

To add to that. Once you hit the maximum amount of plots for a service account. The only way to continue fresh housing. Is to demolish the layout and start new.

OR

Purchase another Apartment/FC room and create another room there.

A finished Plot leads back to Apartments anyway, if you still have the itch for housing abut still want to preserve your plot.

Unless you volunteer to be someone tenant and decorate their house for them. But you can be subjected to their differences in taste. If they even allow unfettered access to placement.

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Which, to my understanding, apartments aren't an issue here. Mainly houses in terms of hoarding. (FC mafias where art thou)

I have four characters in my current FC (It's a regular FC) but only my main can have a personal house. The rest cannot. They can have apartments but no houses. So...

Nyastra (the amount of patience you have is insane lol) has already said everything I wanted to say, but in a nutshell, the way people bring up instanced housing either leaves everything else in the dust and they don't care about the game's balance at all, or frame it in a way that would only benefit them. It is only in truly looking at both sides and striking a balance (which could entail changing how existing housing works to a certain extent, yes!) that we may find an actually feasible solution and not "I like this and it doesn't inconvenience me in any way, so it's feasible".

It was mentioned in other threads in the past, but what about instanced housing that occupies the same "slot" as ward housing? Here's the remixed, shortened, lazy explanation of my idea:
When a ward house gets demolished, it would instead be transferred to its own instance and this same house could enter the lottery to be put back in a ward if you wanted to. People can then freely take a break without fearing everything would be lost, only their spot in their ward. We went into detail about this at some point in another thread, but I can't seem to find it right now.
I think a similar system in which not using your instanced house also has some sort of consequence, not complete loss of your investment but maybe doing certain activities helps towards keeping your house in perfect shape. Gardening detailing, a simple cleaning/tidying minigame, setting down food for your chocobo/wandering minion if we could have it would be cute to encourage you to go to your house and relax for a bit. Naturally, you would be able to pay an NPC or even your retainers to do this for you. The bigger the house, the more upkeep -> the more you pay, most likely.
Maybe having certain failsafes like being able to talk to an NPC to save your house's layout and items in stasis (either with a special inventory you get for only this or space you must provide from your own inventories/retainers) so that, in the end, if you take a break everything would technically be stored safely and all you have to do is get an appropriate plot again and just click a button to get everything set up for you.

This would mean that houses could get more things to do inside of them that aren't difficult but can be a fun little activity to add to your routine or mindlessly attend to while waiting for your roulette to pop or your PF to fill, but you can also easily automate it if you're busy or don't like doing it but don't want your house to look unkempt. Hell, people could purposefully have an unkempt-looking house if they like the look. Maybe it affects the grade of restfulness your character gets from logging off there, or certain things like summoning bell, choco stables, gardening don't work if you don't do some maintenance every now and then. I feel like people sometimes forget to go into their house because there's nothing to do in there once you're done decorating (unless you wanna redecorate).

Removing some of the archaic pain points in ward housing can elevate the ceiling, which then allows for either an equally valuable instanced variant or a step below that is no worse than what we have now while holding the current structure of plot housing being the best available choice. I don't know, just throwing ideas. I love housing and I'd love for everyone to have a proper chance to go wild and be creative, but if you want absolutely no drawbacks, trade-offs or such it may be best to play a game that aims towards unlimited housing like WoW or the Sims lol not saying it like "get out of here" but like, the people who enjoy the ward system are not below or above you. Their preferences are just as valid as yours.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

but if you want absolutely no drawbacks, trade-offs or such it may be best to play a game that aims towards unlimited housing like WoW or the Sims lol not saying it like "get out of here" but like, the people who enjoy the ward system are not below or above you. Their preferences are just as valid as yours.

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you see the thing is that most the people asking for instanced housing or for improvements to alleviate some pains of the ward system were keeping to them self and engaging in productive conversations until then people like SoloWing and others came in with disingenuous comments like this one i'm replying to above this which is not a solution that helps anyone just further alienates an further perpetuates the problem and offers no real solution to gripes and frustrations at all.
people were not asking to take away your ward houses not until it became aparant that the ward system was becoming completely abused by bot farmers, elitist hoarders, and rmt.
yet those who argue against those wishing for a more fair shot to own property and land are never given any explanation at all or told why we shouldn't allow abuse of the housing system outside of snide an rude comments like "well its not your subscription to pay why are you so concerned about what people do with their money or gil?" yet at the same time tell us too "just move servers" where even more abuse keeps happening cause those same bots and hoarders target those empty wards so please tell us how why should we continue to deal with that abuse when the simple fix would to just add instance housing as its own housing system which would then make those plots less valuable to those abusers of the system cause then its no longer a luxury or commodity or exclusive thing.

so if people are going to be lecturing us about plot relevancy in wards then how about you start with by acknowledging the abuse that happens in them first then we can discuss cause all i have seen is people throwing their fragile egos around and virtue signaling without even addressing the inherit flaws of the system they so like so much. it makes most people's arguments look like hypocritical ones cause all i hear is people wagging their fingers at those of us who want to own a private instance but they don't ever mention the flaws of the ward system like at all the one thing i've seen is the timers an thats it no mentions of the abuse of the system which is very telling an it honestly makes me thing some of you coming into these threads are IN FACT the same abusers of the system and are trying to avoid facing you come upance

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Originally Posted by Shistar

Their preferences are just as valid as yours.

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I surprise myself sometimes, I don't know where this patience came from.
But exactly that. Everyone has their preferences and opinions and that's okay!

I *get* doing away with demolition timers has drawbacks, I get that keeping them and implementing them in both instanced and wards have drawbacks.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

but if you want absolutely no drawbacks, trade-offs or such it may be best to play a game that aims towards unlimited housing

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And all I asked was that people admit this and see that there are trade-offs and that it's really going to be unfair to a degree either way. Heaven forbid there are Pros and Cons but we apparently don't admit that here. Anyway, I hope they make housing better at the very least. They would be hard pressed to make it worse.

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Originally Posted by Brandr

House hoarders have no say in this conversation, because YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

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Hell I just got house nr 7 on chaos today (cute little beachside cottage in the mist <3) and in less than a month I can start bidding on FC plots on that character to bring the total to 8. I do use the fc rooms on alts in the fc houses so it's much the same as apartments, they are great and fun to decorate without feeling like too much.

I get on some servers getting a house is harder than others, but it's not impossible. And certainly you don't get to say x or y can't contribute to a conversation based on some rule you made up in your own head.

There's reason to want and support instanced housing, but I agree with others I care a lot about the wards remaining relevant as for a social experience they are just better. I would appreciate SE taking some action to liven them up, for example I'd be totally in favour of gil farm via FC's being taken out back and shot. I would rather housing be used for decorating, socialising etc than just kept empty for the sake of gil farm. And we know that motivation does eat a fair few plots across many servers, taking the motivation away has a good shot at opening up those houses and giving the desired supply without even adding instanced housing at all.

Even with all the clamour for housing from players across this forum, looking on the websites to show bids on plots just shows there's just not a huge deficit currently, esp for private plots in many cases there is excess. Hence why I just bought a little cottage in a very nice spot with no competition, there were about a dozen mediums up with 1 or 2 bids each and I think one had more cause ofc it's shiro medium in nicer spot. Which doesn't mean all those bidders are homeless, for mediums many will be trying to relocate. So for a first action I would much rather SE do something about the gil farm via subs, complete their promise on the housing mirage that lets people turn smalls into large's tardis style. And then see where we land from there, cause imo that will solve most issues at current player population. We'd need a hell of a lot of people to come back to the game before we felt a housing pinch again, and newer servers have empty wards sitting waiting for that to happen.

I enjoyed reading this idea. I don't know if it's already been mentioned in the comments, but I had an idea about the existing wards. Instead of empty plots, maybe add model houses with NPC owners. This would spruce up otherwise barren neighborhoods.

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Originally Posted by Kurado

I enjoyed reading this idea. I don't know if it's already been mentioned in the comments, but I had an idea about the existing wards. Instead of empty plots, maybe add model houses with NPC owners. This would spruce up otherwise barren neighborhoods.

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Or or! Like how in the Empyreum you have ahem the blue elephant NPC and things, make more of them. Make more NPCs that just wander around.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

Or or! Like how in the Empyreum you have ahem the blue elephant NPC and things, make more of them. Make more NPCs that just wander around.

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Stock Layout exteriors, but on entry it'll pull a random plot from the ward list to fill that location in the instance.

Directory randomizes when you leave the "ward"

you need to convince the JP community there is an issue. they won't read any of this stuff

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Originally Posted by Omega_Enthusiast

you need to convince the JP community there is an issue. they won't read any of this stuff

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That's going to be harder to do, As their housing standards and preferences are FAR different then those in the west.

Pulled this from reddit

Majority of westerners living in Japan are American and from their standard, Japanese houses are tiny. From European standard, Japanese houses are average size.

Average house size by country.

Canada1948 sq. ft181 sq. meters

France1206 sq. ft112 sq. meters

Germany1173 sq. ft109 sq. meters

Italy872 sq. ft81 sq. meters

Japan1023 sq. ft95 sq. meters

Spain1044 sq. ft97 sq. meters

United Kingdom818 sq. ft76 sq. meters

United States2164 sq. ft201 sq. meters

What’s the point of this vs reworking apartments? We already have 5 distinctly themed zones of more or less spoiler free apartments that any subscriber can get from level 50 and I would rather see Square put their efforts into making them more flexible and functional than create a whole new convoluted, redundant version of them with immersion breaking spoiler warnings and high progression requirements.

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Originally Posted by debleb

What’s the point of this vs reworking apartments? We already have 5 distinctly themed zones of more or less spoiler free apartments that any subscriber can get from level 50 and I would rather see Square put their efforts into making them more flexible and functional than create a whole new convoluted, redundant version of them with immersion breaking spoiler warnings and high progression requirements.

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Kugane/Empyerium wards should be made reachable from The main city hubs aytherite