Picto makes the game less fun

what is the point to play with a group without a job that counter the current encounter design and use their weaknesses as strength?

people now realized how unbalance the game is.. PCT is one issue of many bad design choices

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Happened with MCH in EW and if memory serves me right PLD in HW and AST kinda in early HW (but this was more due to people being really bad at it.)

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Those were jobs with serious underperforming issues and/or broken toolkits. A little unfair in the case of MCH since it was perfectly functional still, but it was certainly not due to burst mismatch (especially since EW had everybody bursting on 2min already anyway).

PCT isn't really a problem, its a unique well designed and fun job its just blantantly overpowered for the encounter design and 2 minute buff meta. If CDs were at different timers again and raid buff alignment wasnt consistent I reckon PCTs rdps would be far more reasonable because really its nDPS isn't extremely high. If there is nerfing to PCT I would want it on Holy in White, a longer Smudge CD and make the hammer combo only CRT-DH during the 2 minute burst, I like the fact its motifs are its high damage and its spells are weak because the normal cast combo is really fast and the motif painting is the only part of the job that makes it feel like a caster.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Those were jobs with serious underperforming issues and/or broken toolkits.

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Maybe but im just saying the only ones I remember.

Yeah Picto in fact just shows how outdated and boring and samey most DPS in this game are designed. It's also overpowered to a degree, but frankly I see that as the much smaller issue. The big one is that it puts a big thumb onto the wound of terrible DPS design in FFXIV. In particular thematically, as the themes are never realized into gameplay elements.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

PCT isn't really a problem, its a unique well designed and fun job its just blantantly overpowered for the encounter design and 2 minute buff meta.

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I can't even process this sentence. What?

I remember the WAR party line from Heavenward was 'WAR is just better designed than other tanks. Don't nerf WAR, buff the other jobs into equality.' Which of course was blatantly false, because every time someone advocated for equality they were then told 'Don't homogenize the tanks.' But at least that circular argument was superficially coherent to the point that it could fool some people.

This is like trying to hide in plain sight.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I can't even process this sentence. What?

I remember the WAR party line from Heavenward was 'WAR is just better designed than other tanks. Don't nerf WAR, buff the other jobs into equality.' Which of course was blatantly false, because every time someone advocated for equality they were then told 'Don't homogenize the tanks.' But at least that circular argument was superficially coherent to the point that it could fool some people.

This is like trying to hide in plain sight.

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And to follow up where you cut off "blantantly overpowered for the encounter design and 2 minute buff meta."

So either we can lose what makes PCT unique by nerfing it's motifs and make it I don't know what people want. As strong as what? Ninja?
Instead of removing this awful shitty raid buffing meta and let PCT have it's strong bursts and weak filler identity across a more reasonable stretch of time instead of every 2 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

And to follow up where you cut off "blantantly overpowered for the encounter design and 2 minute buff meta."

So either we can lose what makes PCT unique by nerfing it's motifs and make it I don't know what people want. As strong as what? Ninja?
Instead of removing this awful shitty raid buffing meta and let PCT have it's strong bursts and weak filler identity across a more reasonable stretch of time instead of every 2 minutes.

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I keep wondering how long it will take for CBU3 to finally recognize that the whole "2min burst" concept is creatively unsustainable not only to job gameplay, but also to encounter design.

I mean, unless they are happy with the status quo, which is (playing the devil's advocate) understandable because that's much less work to balance things if everything ends up following a very strict formula.

And if they do... what can we even expect in the so promised job focus in 8.0?

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I keep wondering how long it will take for CBU3 to finally recognize that the whole "2min burst" concept is creatively unsustainable not only to job gameplay, but also to encounter design.

I mean, unless they are happy with the status quo, which is (playing the devil's advocate) understandable because that's much less work to balance things if everything ends up following a very strict formula.

And if they do... what can we even expect in the so promised job focus in 8.0?

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2 min wasn't balanced and it will never be balance.. unless all dps jobs play the same 99% like how healers ( and they still not balanced )

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I can't even process this sentence. What?

I remember the WAR party line from Heavenward was 'WAR is just better designed than other tanks. Don't nerf WAR, buff the other jobs into equality.' Which of course was blatantly false, because every time someone advocated for equality they were then told 'Don't homogenize the tanks.' But at least that circular argument was superficially coherent to the point that it could fool some people.

This is like trying to hide in plain sight.

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Seems pretty clear to me

PCT is overpowered in the 2 minute meta but doesn’t change it’s a really well designed class

Don’t get rid of what makes PCT a well designed class remove the 2 minute meta instead because you’ll nerf PCT by proxy of doing this anyway

I don’t think this would actually work given it would 8.0 at the earliest that they would get rid of the 2 minute meta but the thought is sound

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

PCT is overpowered in the 2 minute meta but doesn’t change it’s a really well designed class

Don’t get rid of what makes PCT a well designed class remove the 2 minute meta instead because you’ll nerf PCT by proxy of doing this anyway

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Yeah, like this. Assuming the frankly silly 2-minute meta stays, Picto is overpowered due to the nature of that, and the medium~long-CD burst skills ought to be nerfed by medium amounts (so actually lose a whole lot of damage). OTOH, only mess with the potency, because the rest - the design - actually works much better in the context of modern combat-design in FFXIV than other jobs do, in particular other casters (so comparing Red Mage and Black Mage, Summoner is phys ranged if we're being honest).

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Yeah, like this. Assuming the frankly silly 2-minute meta stays, Picto is overpowered due to the nature of that, and the medium~long-CD burst skills ought to be nerfed by medium amounts (so actually lose a whole lot of damage). OTOH, only mess with the potency, because the rest - the design - actually works much better in the context of modern combat-design in FFXIV than other jobs do, in particular other casters (so comparing Red Mage and Black Mage, Summoner is phys ranged if we're being honest).

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Red mage is another class that doesn’t get discussed often as to how they made it worse to try to fit it into a design it doesn’t match

Back in SB it had a very flat damage profile and it’s middling burst (which required a lot of setup since it was 80/80 and was much shorter ending at Verholy/verflare) could be put basically anywhere because it wasn’t available often and you basically gained nothing to ever hold it

To try to shove it into the 2 minute burst they made it so you just bursted 3 times in a row and added a tonne of finishers on top which were just more powerful to shift its prior towards bring burstier

PCT’s strengths lie in it playing to the modern encounter design better than them retroactively refitting wonky changes into the legacy jobs that dont work well in that design

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

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No, I included the entire quote. I just highlighted the parts that directly contradict each other, just to make it even more immediately obvious. You claim that 'PCT isn't a problem' and also admit that 'it's just blatantly overpowered' in the same sentence.

Current content encounter design hasn't even demonstrated PCT's full potential, simply due to the lack of targetless intermissions. And even in situations where PCT is the only buff providing job, it's still every bit as broken. The reason why all the other modern burst jobs can co-exist with sustained DPS jobs is because of resource systems. Resource systems make you work to earn your burst through uptime. PCT ignores this in how motifs are generated. That's not 'unique design', it's called ignoring design constraints. A job with an 'I win' button would be equally unique, and equally bad design.

Motifs need to change to have an uptime requirement, at bare minimum.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

No, I included the entire quote. I just highlighted the parts that directly contradict each other, just to make it even more immediately obvious. You claim that 'PCT isn't a problem' and also admit that 'it's just blatantly overpowered' in the same sentence.

Current content encounter design hasn't even demonstrated PCT's full potential, simply due to the lack of targetless intermissions. And even in situations where PCT is the only buff providing job, it's still every bit as broken. The reason why all the other modern burst jobs can co-exist with sustained DPS jobs is because of resource systems. Resource systems make you work to earn your burst through uptime. PCT ignores this in how motifs are generated. That's not 'unique design', it's called ignoring design constraints. A job with an 'I win' button would be equally unique, and equally bad design.

Motifs need to change to have an uptime requirement, at bare minimum.

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Its overpowered yes but thats not a problem with pictomancer its a problem with the job design, pictomancer is not this mythical villian that if you nerf will fix the job design issues, no BLM will still underperform because it can't burst properly, Phys range still suffer from lack of damage and PCT will still be one of the strongest jobs in the game unless its nerfed to do damage around the level of a phys range because its just so incredibly well scaling with the burst meta because it benfits insanely well from raid buffs from its core.
Sure add uptime requirement, it will still destroy all other DPS because of its burst is insane. Hell even if pictomancer was made to do no damage it won't make other jobs fun and the targets will switch from pictomancer to viper because im sure a lot of Samurais are not happy that a one button rotation job like Viper scales so much better with buffs then it. The games issues do not lie with one job, it lies with the core design around raid buffing every 2 minutes and deleting pictomancer wont fix that.
Your arguement about PCT not having a unique system is wrong, it charges attacks it can hold and use when it wants which would probably be more fun in a game without consistent bursts every 2 minutes, its actually really sad that now people who play this game want every job to be resource gaining and using instead of doing anything different.

I don't understand why there's so much aversion to utilizing nerfs in job balance in this game specifically. Every other game dev does it without issue. You recognize PCT is overpowered, but you'd sooner have all other jobs to be reworked just to accommodate it. Just fix the problem directly.

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With the release of 7.0, however, we noticed that the DPS of the new job Pictomancer clearly stood out from the other classes. We could have nerfed Pictomancer before the raid, but since many people liked playing it so much, we decided to bring the DPS of the other classes into line with that of Pictomancer. Source

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It's so tiring seeing the dev team predictably try to fix recurring problems like this with half-hearted upward flat potency buffs to all other jobs.

Either they'll do this incredibly slowly all expansion and PCT will perpetually dominate to the point that they start losing players, or they'll overcompensate in response to player outrage during FRU and PCT will be left underpowered for the next tier. This is all completely avoidable, as direct fix to the problem job in question is all that is required.

I think the point more centres on the fact that nerfing PCT while leading to PCT not being overpowered anymore doesn’t actually fix the wider balance issues at all nor do a lot of the offered suggestions around things like motifs needing targets consider the fact that core job design shouldn’t change when nerfing something

A lot of BLM’s have come in here and said “I feel bad that PCT does more damage than me while being easy”. That isn’t PCT’s fault, that’s the fault of BLM being a terrible burster in a burst heavy innate design. If we nerfed PCT down to NIN level tomorrow it would be back above BLM next tier anyway because it feeds into buffs so well, we have evidence of this with how well the healers scale over the course of the expansion.

Nerfing PCT but changing nothing about the core design of the buff meta won’t fix BLM’s problems, it won’t fix phys ranged doing less damage than melee even when melee have awful uptime and it won’t fix VPR dominating the melee despite being easier than SMN

I’m not opposed to nerfing some aspects of PCT (though absolutely not changing how the motifs work) but people are way too quick to act like PCT is the entire cause of the reason why this tier is so terribly balanced when it’s only a minor contributor

What they could do is like cut the potencies of all muses in half or so, but make them all auto direct hit crit.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I don't understand why there's so much aversion to utilizing nerfs in job balance in this game specifically. Every other game dev does it without issue. You recognize PCT is overpowered, but you'd sooner have all other jobs to be reworked just to accommodate it. Just fix the problem directly.

It's so tiring seeing the dev team predictably try to

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Here I'll write it super clearly in short sentences:

Nerf PCT = Band aid fix
Remove 2 minute meta = Fixing the entire issue

I would prefer it if we stopped having reworks constantly and just fix the entire issue by changing CD timers.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I think the point more centres on the fact that nerfing PCT while leading to PCT not being overpowered anymore doesn’t actually fix the wider balance issues at all nor do a lot of the offered suggestions around things like motifs needing targets consider the fact that core job design shouldn’t change when nerfing something

A lot of BLM’s have come in here and said “I feel bad that PCT does more damage than me while being easy”. That isn’t PCT’s fault, that’s the fault of BLM being a terrible burster in a burst heavy innate design. If we nerfed PCT down to NIN level tomorrow it would be back above BLM next tier anyway because it feeds into buffs so well, we have evidence of this with how well the healers scale over the course of the expansion.

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Burst and continuous DPS can definitely coexist under the current game design. If you want to understand this, just look at what happened with M1S over the weeks. We've seen VPR/MNK trade off against DRG/NIN/SAM on a weekly basis. VPR is currently one of the weakest melee on that fight, with a 2.0% representation in the top 50 fastest clears in contrast to DRG's 31% and SAM's 25% (PCT has 100% representation - no other casters were used at all). That's purely a function of fight length. As ilvl goes up, fight duration shortens to the point where you clear on your 6 minute potion burst. That's like the zenith of burst-orientated jobs, which is what we see now.

Now if you look at M2S in comparison, it's a completely different story. VPR is the strongest melee in that fight, and has about 27.6% representation in the top 50 fastest clears (PCT has 94.2%). That's not surprising either, because kill times are between 7-8 minutes (i.e. between burst windows). So dealing continuous DPS gives you the chance to catch up and overtake jobs with heavier burst (PCT aside). In fact, you can predict VPR and MNK's usage in the top 50 fastest clears based entirely on fight length. I think when a system is closely balanced, you'll see natural trade-offs between these job damage types without one job being always on top for all fights.

It's not really the magnitude of PCT's burst that worries me. There are some intrinsic problems with this, the obvious one being a lot of damage variance, which may point to a need for more Crit/DH caps on burst actions. But I think the real issue is going to happen when you have fight designs with forced downtime and no target. That's where PCT will be truly uncontested, because it will have a full burst where even other burst jobs won't be able to build resources. That's why motifs are a big part of the underlying problem. I don't think flat potency changes can fix this.

In short, I don't think that you can balance PCT by just titrating average DPS, because the size of the discrepancy will be very much fight dependent. This is why we have resource-gated burst systems, to ensure that your ability to burst is still at least partially a byproduct of uptime. Motif casts should be uptime dependent and should require a target.

None of the melee DPS have remotely as large of a magnitude of burst difference between their burst and their downtime as PCT and BLM, honestly the closest comparison you’d get is comparing SGE to AST in which AST just scales better and better throughout the expansion and is totally unaffected by downtime because its burst is reliant on draw which doesn’t need a target and divination which is just a CD. You can nerf AST now but it’ll just scale straight back to being dominant in half an expansion because it’s a factor of the burst meta not just its own damage capacity, the way the burst CD’s work on all jobs also means you will never “skip” a burst so jobs that play into burst will always scale better. Flat profiles are always playing catch up in this meta because the job design means you can save burst to always align it, that’s the core of the problem. If an 8 minute fight has only 1 minute 20 seconds of uptime across the fight you’ll just do 4 20 second bursts, if it’s 8 minutes full uptime you’ll still do 4 20 second burst but then you add filler. The 2 minute meta needs to go because this was always going to happen to BLM when they introduced a non flat caster that isn’t arbitrarily handicapped by raise like SMN is

As for the suggestion of motifs need a target that’s simply a point of “1 ultimates every 2 years doesn’t justify destroying the best received job since SB”, if you are going to nerf PCT that’s absolutely the last thing you should do because not everyone wants their favourite job destroyed to balance an ultimate

The real issue is that we just have way too many motifs, and a good option could be to cut them down back to no charges each, but that would remove a big part of the job's flexibility. On the other hand, a lot of other jobs don't have that luxury and have had to content with not drifting important GCDs. Still, redistribute the potency all across the board without making the motifs an actual damage loss, and remove 1 charge from the creature one would be a good start in my opinion.

And frankly I know it's gonna make people laugh but you don't even need ultimates to already see what the math and experience shows, and what you can already see in dungeons when it comes to downtime. Ultimates have rarely been very well balanced. For instance, DSR was an absolute joke of balance back then between jobs, and they didn't bother adjusting for it.

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Originally Posted by Valence

And frankly I know it's gonna make people laugh but you don't even need ultimates to already see what the math and experience shows, and what you can already see in dungeons when it comes to downtime. Ultimates have rarely been very well balanced. For instance, DSR was an absolute joke of balance back then between jobs, and they didn't bother adjusting for it.

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TOP also being cleared in the same patch it released in without healers with zero adjustments also goes to show that ultimates really don't mean much at all anymore. God I wish blue mage ultimates became a thing so some actual interesting job actions can come out of ultimates.

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Originally Posted by Valence

The real issue is that we just have way too many motifs, and a good option could be to cut them down back to no charges each, but that would remove a big part of the job's flexibility. On the other hand, a lot of other jobs don't have that luxury and have had to content with not drifting important GCDs. Still, redistribute the potency all across the board without making the motifs an actual damage loss, and remove 1 charge from the creature one would be a good start in my opinion.

And frankly I know it's gonna make people laugh but you don't even need ultimates to already see what the math and experience shows, and what you can already see in dungeons when it comes to downtime. Ultimates have rarely been very well balanced. For instance, DSR was an absolute joke of balance back then between jobs, and they didn't bother adjusting for it.

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I worst decision the balance team could make would be to add clunkiness to the job. Removing charges? Really?

Many jobs from the ARR honestly need at least medium sized reworks.

We shouldn’t be making well designed jobs feel worse because old jobs are janky after several expansions worth of additions.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’m not opposed to nerfing some aspects of PCT (though absolutely not changing how the motifs work) but people are way too quick to act like PCT is the entire cause of the reason why this tier is so terribly balanced when it’s only a minor contributor

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Seconding this. I would be very disappointed if they changed how motifs currently work and/or cut their number down. Managing them, their spenders and building paint inbetween while preparing everything for your burst is what makes this job so fun to play. It's the job that makes me feel the most engaged in terms of actual thinking/planning (even if it's just a little).

I do absolutely not want the gameplay to be simplified or streamlined or any of that.

(And in terms of job fantasy it does feel a little like "prepping" all your tool and colours
meticulously for your painting which I think is a neat little bonus.)

Motifs needing a target makes no sense to me tbh. The whole point of them is preparation before you actually attack. Why should you need to target an enemy to execute a target-unrelated skill when you are not actually attacking them. What makes motifs interesting is finding the right moment to commit to their long cast time in preparation of a future attack.

I can live with nerfs to numbers but I also agree with Supersnow, picto is not the core of the problem and changing it won't really fix the underlying issues other jobs have.
You'd put a bandaid on a bullet hole so to speak.

The problem is that a rigid 2 minute meta actively counters true job variety. If you try to make jobs unique then some will inevitably not fit the strict meta mold and lose out.

I'd rather prefer a system where you can approach casting from two different angles without one style being so blatantly favoured by the meta mold. I love that BLM does not have a strict burst window but in picto's case it's the whole burst and the extensive build-up that I love and don't want to miss.

Naturally you'll never be able to balance jobs perfectly and some will always have a (small) edge but flat damage profiles and burst-reliant profiles should not be (dis)advantaged over each other in principle/across the board due to meta restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Seconding this. I would be very disappointed if they changed how motifs currently work and/or cut their number down. Managing them, their spenders and building paint inbetween while preparing everything for your burst is what makes this job so fun to play. It's the job that makes me feel the most engaged in terms of actual thinking/planning (even if it's just a little).

I do absolutely not want the gameplay to be simplified or streamlined or any of that.

(And in terms of job fantasy it does feel a little like "prepping" all your tool and colours
meticulously for your painting which I think is a neat little bonus.)

Motifs needing a target makes no sense to me tbh. The whole point of them is preparation before you actually attack. Why should you need to target an enemy to execute a target-unrelated skill when you are not actually attacking them. What makes motifs interesting is finding the right moment to commit to their long cast time in preparation of a future attack.

I can live with nerfs to numbers but I also agree with Supersnow, picto is not the core of the problem and changing it won't really fix the underlying issues other jobs have.
You'd put a bandaid on a bullet hole so to speak.

The problem is that a rigid 2 minute meta actively counters true job variety. If you try to make jobs unique then some will inevitably not fit the strict meta mold and lose out.

I'd rather prefer a system where you can approach casting from two different angles without one style being so blatantly favoured by the meta mold. I love that BLM does not have a strict burst window but in picto's case it's the whole burst and the extensive build-up that I love and don't want to miss.

Naturally you'll never be able to balance jobs perfectly and some will always have a (small) edge but flat damage profiles and burst-reliant profiles should not be (dis)advantaged over each other in principle/across the board due to meta restrictions.

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I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

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Its understandable because Endwalker and Dawntrail have had the worst job design in the series for two expansions in a row, so when PCT comes out and its by far the most interesting and fun new job we have got in the game since like SAM people get annoyed that its also performing far better than any other job (because the raid buff meta is broken) and demand it to be dragged down. Its simply crab mentality and I used to do it too, when SCH/BRD was ruined in SHB I wanted SGE/DNC to become the worst job in the game because I hated what happened to my main jobs, it was a bad mindset and even though its happened twice again for me (SMN/BLM) I have learnt to just move on and not grow attached to jobs.

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Originally Posted by RheyIdol

Honestly, I have tried since launch to wrap my head around the balance decisions regarding this Job, and I simply cannot. Was the intention to phase out Black Mage altogether?

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The damage output for Pictomancer is comparable to what EW non-standard Black Mage rotations would be doing, if they had survived into Dawntrail. So, my personal theory is that PCT was balanced around non-standard BLM first, then they decided later in production that they would remove / heavily nerf non-standard (and either overlooked the need to give PCT a compensating nerf, or didn't realise just how damaging the BLM nerf was)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

As for the suggestion of motifs need a target that’s simply a point of “1 ultimates every 2 years doesn’t justify destroying the best received job since SB”, if you are going to nerf PCT that’s absolutely the last thing you should do because not everyone wants their favourite job destroyed to balance an ultimate

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PCT's advantage is definitely not limited to Ultimates.

If you're referencing downtime intermissions, we have those in Savage fights as well. P8SP2 was a particularly extreme example. The fight was essentially alternating burst windows with a targetless HC 1 and 2, culminating in a potion burst under Everburn that doubled your damage. And even when you factor that type of fight design effect out of the equation, we can still see very clearly that PCT is obviously dominating this tier.

The reason why they keep adding new jobs to the game is to attract new players and give them more variety to choose from. Having a single job dominate a role and have its own dedicated role slot runs completely contrary to this. Telling players that they need to play PCT if they want to be a caster main is not good design. You're always going to get backlash for rebalancing an overpowered job. You've seen for yourself how much pushback there is around toning back WAR's self-healing currently. But what you're doing here is no different. Protecting your turf sometimes runs contrary to what's good for the game.

What SE needs to recognize is that this type of pushback will go away instantly once they just do their job and balance the game. FoTM players don't have loyalty to any job, so they'll just switch anyways the advantage is gone and the resistance will vanish. The real risk is pushing away players who are really attached to a specific job design aesthetic, which is why variety is so important. SE can continue to cater specifically to PCT if they want, but only if they're also prepared to continue to lose players.

Which is my point, you’ve basically described situations where they have enforced a 2 minute meta by alternating downtime with burst phases, the “uptime” is never filler in these types of situations. PCT can further benefit from this because it gains free potency from targetless downtime but this type of design is always going to benefit jobs that run on CD’s rather than gauge generation and will always benefit burst profiles more heavily. Remember when BLM needed non standard just to even be half viable in EW ultimates because it’s flat damage profile was useless

Like you can nerf PCT but that doesn’t change the fact that the current design just so overwhelmingly benefits burst jobs and constrains design and retrofitting wonky bursts to non bursting jobs like with RDM just makes the jobs feel bad to fit a meta they weren’t designed around

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

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If you mean literally changing the job's gameplay, definitely. If however you just mean readjusting the damage output (a simple nerf), I'd retort that some people need to get a reality check if the fun they get out of a job is being ahead of every other.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

I just find it fascinating that someone doesn’t like the fact that their main job isn’t fun for them this expansion, and rather than fix the issues with said job, they would rather make a new job that many people are enjoying less fun to play.

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I don't want PCT to be less fun but I've developed a fear of "fixing the issues". Most Dawntrail changes to jobs are absolutely baffling and make the jobs worse to play. I understand BLM players being annoyed that PCT is the new favourite child now.

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Originally Posted by Valence

If you mean literally changing the job's gameplay, definitely. If however you just mean readjusting the damage output (a simple nerf), I'd retort that some people need to get a reality check if the fun they get out of a job is being ahead of every other.

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I remember being really baffled when I saw a discussion about every job being buffed to PCT levels. Most people were claiming it was the best possible decision because nerfs "make jobs less fun". I can't fathom how. Unless people are parsing, I doubt many would even notice their numbers being slightly toned down.

Nerfs are fine but it’s the way of suggested nerfs that’s the problem

I have less than zero problem with 1-200 potency being shaved off the creature motif or crit fishing being cut off by auto direct critting starry muse and rainbow drop, I have serious problems with them changing the way motifs work because they created a 2 minute buff focused Meta and now can’t balance the flat damage profile jobs to give a damn

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Nerfs are fine but it’s the way of suggested nerfs that’s the problem

I have less than zero problem with 1-200 potency being shaved off the creature motif or crit fishing being cut off by auto direct critting starry muse and rainbow drop, I have serious problems with them changing the way motifs work because they created a 2 minute buff focused Meta and now can’t balance the flat damage profile jobs to give a damn

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I agree with not changing motifs, that's way overboard. But people were responding like this to the mere suggestion of some number adjustments. Apparently the fun of a job comes from dealing big damage and nothing else to quite a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I agree with not changing motifs, that's way overboard. But people were responding like this to the mere suggestion of some number adjustments. Apparently the fun of a job comes from dealing big damage and nothing else to quite a lot of people.

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To be fair, considering they gave every single job the exact same ‘attack that does big numbers after 120 second ability’, it seems the devs unfortunately really do believe ‘dealing big damage’ = ‘fun’ lol.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I don't want PCT to be less fun but I've developed a fear of "fixing the issues". Most Dawntrail changes to jobs are absolutely baffling and make the jobs worse to play. I understand BLM players being annoyed that PCT is the new favourite child now.

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Is worse than just PCTs doings more DPS than BLMs. If that all that happened then Mao wouldn't mind so much. Devs actually went out of thems way to WRECK EW BLMs. Thems ruined Mana regen. Thems made rotation sooper rigid with crappy capstone spell. Thems wrecked Thunder. Thems even stooped so low as to weaken standard Fire and Ice AoEs. Assuming thems know what the heck thems doings, Mao HAS to assume that thems sabotaged BLMs to makes sure PCTs has ZERO competitions. Is all Mao can thinks of is that thems wanted thems precious new job to has no competitions. Mao paid 60 bucks to go BACKSWARD! THAT why Mao so angrys and THAT why Mao gonna quits game unless is some improvements made to BLMs in next few patches.

sorry guys but PCT issue in its core design.. nothing about their kit can be balanced.. decreasing potency will just dumb the job even more

they need to rework this job windows.. stopping them from getting free casted motifs.. give more cast time to their big attacks..

I didn't see a job in any game is this much gimmicky god what is this? did they tested this job in savage?

other than that PCT issue will remain forever.. for good or for worst

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BabyYoda

sorry guys but PCT issue in its core design.. nothing about their kit can be balanced.. decreasing potency will just dumb the job even more

they need to rework this job windows.. stopping them from getting free casted motifs.. give more cast time to their big attacks..

I didn't see a job in any game is this much gimmicky god what is this? did they tested this job in savage?

other than that PCT issue will remain forever.. for good or for worst

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In other words, Rui sayings Devs finally "jumped the shark"?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eraden

In other words, Rui sayings Devs finally "jumped the shark"?

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Exactly.. they just over done it.. the job would be perfect with less gimmicky kit

I kinda feel like the tooth paste is out of the tube regarding burst damage, and to an extent raid buffs because burst damage in games is good, like really good. And by 'good' I mean really effective at reducing at reducing enemy HP to 0. And ways to make burst damage stronger will always be sought after.

If PCT were in like another type of game like a turn based game then the painting mechanic would essentially be like skip your current turn in exchange for an incredibly high damaging spell on your next turn. So PCT could something cheesy like skipping their turn over and over again until they have enough damage to defeat their enemy in one turn. The intentional downtime becomes inconsequential if you know when you can get away with it. A way to combat against this playstyle would be to make it so that PCT can only skip half their turn, and so they have to use the damage the built from painting on their current 'turn' which have a a bunch of different numerical solutions that won't completely eliminate the playstyle, but make it less cheesy.

Like Dancer, to me Picto feels like a girly job. I'll be sticking with BLM.